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Comey (Page 6)
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The Final Dakar
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Apr 14, 2018, 03:51 PM
 
There's a definitely a generation of people who's first thought was that scene after treading that tweet. It certainly was mine.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 14, 2018, 06:57 PM
 
I’ve never seen it but it came to me anyway.

Your generation eats that shit up and then throws the wrapper on my Internet lawn.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 15, 2018, 04:34 PM
 
As much as I didn’t want to admit it to myself, there are aspects of the way Comey is pursuing this which lead me to the conclusion he’s way less classy than he appears on the surface.

The hand size comparison jumps out at me.
     
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Apr 15, 2018, 04:55 PM
 
Can we get back to Stormy the secret Russian Operative?
( Last edited by Chongo; Apr 15, 2018 at 09:44 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 15, 2018, 04:57 PM
 
Get in line.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 15, 2018, 09:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As much as I didn’t want to admit it to myself, there are aspects of the way Comey is pursuing this which lead me to the conclusion he’s way less classy than he appears on the surface.

The hand size comparison jumps out at me.
Releasing a book wasn't red flag enough?
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 15, 2018, 11:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Releasing a book wasn't red flag enough?
I was going to reserve judgement until I had an idea what was in it.

I was hoping he was aware of the criticism he’s a grandstander, and take care not to appear that way.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 16, 2018, 12:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Releasing a book wasn't red flag enough?
Nailed it.
But Comey does not need to be a paragon of virtue for his firing by Trump to have been wrong — Trump certainly isn't either to say the least. Comey was covering his and the FBI's asses during the election when he chose to selectively leak information on one candidate but not the other.
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Apr 16, 2018, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I was going to reserve judgement until I had an idea what was in it.

I was hoping he was aware of the criticism he’s a grandstander, and take care not to appear that way.
Just the mere fact that he felt the need to write a book says something about the man. It is clear that a lot of the public is salivating for his side of the story, and publishers keen on cashing in approached him, I'm sure. If I were him, I'd mostly not speak in public about this and wait until the Mueller probe has concluded to give TV interviews and such.
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Apr 16, 2018, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Comey was covering his and the FBI's asses during the election when he chose to selectively leak information on one candidate but not the other.
Wasn’t that in response to Chaffetz’s threats to leak it?

I thought the ass-covering was not dropping the hammer harder on her future boss.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 12:59 AM
 
Favorite quote so far, about wanting to appear non-partisan.

“And so I chose a gold tie that morning 'cause I didn't want to wear either of the normal gang colors.”
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 01:13 AM
 
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: And the refusal to criticize Vladimir Putin?

JAMES COMEY: I don't know what's behind that. I mean, that's-- that mystified me even after President Trump became president 'cause I discovered that he wouldn't criticize him even in private, which-- I can understand a president making a geopolitical decision that, "I ought not to criticize an adversary country's leader for some reason publicly." But I discovered President Trump wouldn't even do it privately, and I don't know why that is.



Hot take: because Putin will have him killed.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 02:09 AM
 
I didn’t put this together until now.

The Comey and Trump peepee tape talk was the day they met.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 02:55 AM
 
JAMES COMEY: ...And he explained that we had decided that Director Comey would meet with the president-elect privately after we briefed the president-elect and his team on the general findings so that he could review it [the peepee]-- in a more private, more sensitive setting with the president-elect.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: That was James Clapper. How did President Obama respond to that?

JAMES COMEY: He didn't say a word. President Obama has a great poker face. But he simply turned-- so if I'm President Obama, he turned slightly to his left, looked at me, and went like this-- and looked back at Director Clapper. So kind of gave me a-- Groucho Marx is how I thought of it, double eyebrow raise.



lol
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:27 AM
 
JAMES COMEY: ...And then he said, "Another reason you know it's not true is I'm a germaphobe. There's no way I'd let people pee on each other around me." And that me caught me so much by surprise I actually let out an audible laugh...



Yup... me too.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 07:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Wasn’t that in response to Chaffetz’s threats to leak it?
That's what the scuttle butt is, but even if true that doesn't make it right.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I thought the ass-covering was not dropping the hammer harder on her future boss.
No, the ass covering was to make the investigation (including the mini investigation of copies of some of the Clinton campaign's emails on Anthony Weiner's computer) public when it is FBI policy to not discuss ongoing investigations. The purpose here was to be able to say to Republicans in Congress (who had already sharpened their knives for all the committee hearing they would subject President Clinton to) that he did investigate her.

On the other hand, Comey would not even confirm the existence of an investigation that looked into connections between the Trump campaign and Russia.

We all know what Comey's calculus was and on a human level I see why he did what he did. Comey was more afraid of Republicans in Congress than of Hillary Clinton whose electoral success seemed inevitable at the time. Insofar I believe that Comey did what he did to protect the FBI and not just his own skin.
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Apr 16, 2018, 09:01 AM
 
Comey is irrelevant unless he has info on Stormy.
     
Chongo
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
That's what the scuttle butt is, but even if true that doesn't make it right.

No, the ass covering was to make the investigation (including the mini investigation of copies of some of the Clinton campaign's emails on Anthony Weiner's computer) public when it is FBI policy to not discuss ongoing investigations. The purpose here was to be able to say to Republicans in Congress (who had already sharpened their knives for all the committee hearing they would subject President Clinton to) that he did investigate her.

On the other hand, Comey would not even confirm the existence of an investigation that looked into connections between the Trump campaign and Russia.

We all know what Comey's calculus was and on a human level I see why he did what he did. Comey was more afraid of Republicans in Congress than of Hillary Clinton whose electoral success seemed inevitable at the time. Insofar I believe that Comey did what he did to protect the FBI and not just his own skin.
His whole family voted for Hillary.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
We all know what Comey's calculus was and on a human level I see why he did what he did. Comey was more afraid of Republicans in Congress than of Hillary Clinton whose electoral success seemed inevitable at the time. Insofar I believe that Comey did what he did to protect the FBI and not just his own skin.
Isn’t protecting the FBI the “rightest” thing to do under the circumstances?

If Comey revealed the Trump investigation, then Papadopoulos starts destroying evidence... that’s the “right” thing to do because Tony ****ing Weiner decides to hide copies of Hillary’s emails on his laptop?
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:01 PM
 
Since the beginning, like the hand size comparison, something hasn’t sat right with Comey’s moralizing about Trump’s marriage, but I’m having trouble formalizing it.

The best I can do is ask why does Comey seek to analyze the fourth marriage of a serial womanizing, pussy grabbing, misogynist pig in terms of the Ward and June Cleaver shit he’s got going at home?

Added thought.

This guy used to face down stone cold killers. He’s seen worse.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:13 PM
 
Maybe he knows that Melania is actually Trump's handler?
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Maybe he knows that Melania is actually Trump's handler?
Nice try, moderators.

I know an infraction honeypot when I see one.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Since the beginning, like the hand size comparison, something hasn’t sat right with Comey’s moralizing about Trump’s marriage, but I’m having trouble formalizing it.

The best I can do is ask why does Comey seek to analyze the fourth marriage of a serial womanizing, pussy grabbing, misogynist pig in terms of the Ward and June Cleaver shit he’s got going at home?

Added thought.

This guy used to face down stone cold killers. He’s seen worse.
It's personal for Comey. That's your problem.
     
subego  (op)
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Apr 16, 2018, 03:47 PM
 
I’m not totally sure what that means.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 16, 2018, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m not totally sure what that means.
Comey is judging Trump because he personally hates him. Hence the not picks, judging the size of his hands, etc.

All this when the guy could be a compromised executive that tried to obstruct justice. It's a lack of perspective. Or an admission of obsession.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Isn’t protecting the FBI the “rightest” thing to do under the circumstances?
Nope, the best thing to do is to protect the country and the rule of law. FBI policy is to not comment on ongoing investigations, then this should be afforded to both candidates. That's the whole point of my argument: Comey put the FBI's interests (and his own) over that of the country.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If Comey revealed the Trump investigation, then Papadopoulos starts destroying evidence... that’s the “right” thing to do because Tony ****ing Weiner decides to hide copies of Hillary’s emails on his laptop?
You misunderstood what I was arguing for: I am not saying that Comey should have confirmed the investigation into the Trump campaign, I'm saying he should have kept his mouth shut about the investigation into Clinton until something was actionable. That he should have afforded her with the same courtesy as he did the Trump administration. And that Comey should have stuck to that even if other parties would have leaked this information for their own benefit.

(And it wasn't that Weiner “hid” copies of the email, it is that his then-wife and top Clinton aide Huma Abedin used her husband's laptop for campaign-related stuff. Which is why there was not really a chance that there would be new revelations here.)


Again, I see what Comey did, he is a very savvy political actor. I don't see him either as a paragon of virtue or as an incarnation of the evil Deep State, he made a substantial mistake. If you are cynical, you could say that he still is politically savvy, that the release of a book is his way to compete with someone who derives his political skills from his time as a reality TV star.
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Apr 16, 2018, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
His whole family voted for Hillary.
All of the players involved here have been life long Republicans, and appointed and confirmed by Republicans, Comey, Mueller, the judge who signed off on the Cohen warrant.
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Apr 16, 2018, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Since the beginning, like the hand size comparison, something hasn’t sat right with Comey’s moralizing about Trump’s marriage, but I’m having trouble formalizing it.

The best I can do is ask why does Comey seek to analyze the fourth marriage of a serial womanizing, pussy grabbing, misogynist pig in terms of the Ward and June Cleaver shit he’s got going at home?
Comey is quite plain about this: he thinks (together with a large share of the population) that President Trump is unfit for office because he lacks the moral character for that. As a Republican, it is likely that deep down he holds traditional values about marriage, and Trump is stepping over all of this. I haven't read his book nor do I plan to, but if you are asked to write your perspective on the interactions with President Trump, your personal feelings are certainly one important aspect every reader wants to know about.

If you then ask why this should be included in the book (because it is obvious to anyone, Comey doesn't add much to the discussion that we did not already know), then I would argue that I wouldn't have written the book in the first place
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The Final Dakar
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Apr 16, 2018, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Isn’t protecting the FBI the “rightest” thing to do under the circumstances?

If Comey revealed the Trump investigation, then Papadopoulos starts destroying evidence... that’s the “right” thing to do because Tony ****ing Weiner decides to hide copies of Hillary’s emails on his laptop?
It's a tough question and you're showing its hard to answer fairly with hindsight, let alone bias.

Is the FBI more important than a President? Sure. Is the FBI more important than an the integrity of our presidential elections? No.

Your theoretical about the Trump campaign covering their ass is troubling. What you're saying if Comey had a choice between burning both he shouldn't to protect the integrity of an FBI investigation. That's a tough pill to swallow – you're saying that an FBI investigation was more important than a fair election.

(Also, Comey knew Chaffetz would leak it. If he was really worried he could have told Chaffetz both were under investigation. That I don't think he'd be so ready to leak)
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Comey is judging Trump because he personally hates him. Hence the not picks, judging the size of his hands, etc.

All this when the guy could be a compromised executive that tried to obstruct justice. It's a lack of perspective. Or an admission of obsession.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Comey is quite plain about this: he thinks (together with a large share of the population) that President Trump is unfit for office because he lacks the moral character for that. As a Republican, it is likely that deep down he holds traditional values about marriage, and Trump is stepping over all of this. I haven't read his book nor do I plan to, but if you are asked to write your perspective on the interactions with President Trump, your personal feelings are certainly one important aspect every reader wants to know about.

If you then ask why this should be included in the book (because it is obvious to anyone, Comey doesn't add much to the discussion that we did not already know), then I would argue that I wouldn't have written the book in the first place
Let me offer an alternate explanation I came across from one of Dan Abrams’ peeps.

Basically, Comey is trying to get across “Trump did not react to this like an innocent person”, but he can’t say that directly, so he offers an innocent person reaction as contrast, and lets the reader draw the conclusion.

The author notes prosecutors love, love, love it when people incriminate themselves with protests of innocence.
( Last edited by subego; Apr 16, 2018 at 10:10 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 16, 2018, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Let me offer an alternate explanation I came across from one of Dan Abrams’ peeps.

Basically, Comey is trying to get across “Trump did not react to this like an innocent person”, but he can’t say that directly, so he offers an innocent person reaction as contrast, and lets the reader draw the conclusion.

The author notes prosecutors love, love, love it when people incriminate themselves with protests of innocence.
I thought we were talking about Comey's little digs like his hand size.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Basically, Comey is trying to get across “Trump did not react to this like an innocent person”, but he can’t say that directly, so he offers an innocent person reaction as contrast, and lets the reader draw the conclusion.
We don't need James Comey for that, we all know about Trump's shady business dealings, his extramarital affairs and his temperament. And President Trump is very open about his motives on Twitter and in interviews, we don't need to infer anything here about his state of mind. We just need to read his tweets and take them seriously. (And that's why I think Comey is doing himself a disservice here: he is giving up his position as impartial witness to the affair, one that may be needed in the future.)

Comey's book will sell because of the salacious details contained in it, and that is how it seems to have been designed. That is because most people will trust Comey's account to be accurate (or at least Comey to be more credible than President Trump).
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The Final Dakar
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Apr 16, 2018, 10:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
(And that's why I think Comey is doing himself a disservice here: he is giving up his position as impartial witness to the affair, one that may be needed in the future.)

Comey's book will sell because of the salacious details contained in it, and that is how it seems to have been designed. That is because most people will trust Comey's account to be accurate (or at least Comey to be more credible than President Trump).
Hell, the irony may be these dumb jabs were asked for by his editors to fill out the book or to give it a more personal feel. But if that's true it just reinforces what bad judgement he has to go for the book deal after getting axed.

The timing of him cashing in his chip just confuses the hell out of me. I feel like if he had 'A Higher Loyalty' he wouldn't have read a book. He'd quietly tell Mueller what he saw and then grab a kushy job in the private sector.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Hell, the irony may be these dumb jabs were asked for by his editors to fill out the book or to give it a more personal feel. But if that's true it just reinforces what bad judgement he has to go for the book deal after getting axed.
I totally agree. Nevertheless, it is up to Comey to agree to the editors's requests to add those superfluous jabs, so he bears the ultimate responsibility for that being part of the book. If he really felt that writing a book was the right thing to do, he could have opted for a more boring, but ultimately more helpful book: report the facts, stick to the facts and keep out any superfluous jabs.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The timing of him cashing in his chip just confuses the hell out of me. I feel like if he had 'A Higher Loyalty' he wouldn't have read a book. He'd quietly tell Mueller what he saw and then grab a kushy job in the private sector.
Yup. But I think it shows what Comey is made of.
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Nope, the best thing to do is to protect the country and the rule of law. FBI policy is to not comment on ongoing investigations, then this should be afforded to both candidates. That's the whole point of my argument: Comey put the FBI's interests (and his own) over that of the country.
If the FBI takes actions which make the public lose trust in them, neither the rule of law or the country have been protected.

If Hillary had won, and then actionable evidence had been found, the legitimacy of the election would have been called into question. Allowing this would not only be a failure to protect the country and the rule of law, to use Comey’s adjective, it would be a catastrophic failure to protect them.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Hell, the irony may be these dumb jabs were asked for by his editors to fill out the book or to give it a more personal feel.
What (crassly) jumped to mind about the hooker thing was the possibility he wrote that so his wife could read it.

“Oh, no, honey... like, 100%”
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I thought we were talking about Comey's little digs like his hand size.
I put the hand size in the same category as the moralizing about Trump’s marriage, but I find the hands a far less interesting example, so I wanted to focus on the moralizing.
     
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If the FBI takes actions which make the public lose trust in them, neither the rule of law or the country have been protected.

If Hillary had won, and then actionable evidence had been found, the legitimacy of the election would have been called into question.
… as opposed to the situation now where the specter of Russian meddling hangs over President Trump's victory? The same Russian meddling the FBI started investigating before the election, including ties with the Trump campaign?
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Allowing this would not only be a failure to protect the country and the rule of law, to use Comey’s adjective, it would be a catastrophic failure to protect them.
No, that's what procedure is for: instead of Comey having to make judgement calls on both investigations on whether and which investigation to publicly confirm or comment on, he should have followed procedure on this. That's what procedure is for, it is a shield that not only is supposed to protect suspects, but it is supposed to remove political considerations from decisions and ensure that everyone is treated equally in the eyes of the law.

Sure, the GOP would have tried to spin it in Comey's and the FBI's disfavor if Clinton had been elected, but that behavior is hardly surprising from the same party that had after six Benghazi hearings didn't think it was enough and on the other hand blocked Obama from disclosing that best available intelligence showed that Russian meddling was favoring Trump. I would then lay the blame towards the GOP and not Comey or the FBI.

Again, Comey's actions make political sense if seen in the context of what the most likely outcome was. The GOP would not have much on him in case Clinton had won the election: he had not confirmed that the FBI was looking into connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, he had made the investigation into Clinton's emails public, even the small blip that “new” emails had been discovered on Weiner's laptop. And because he made a recommendation that Clinton should not be charged with a crime would have pacified the Democrats to some degree. But that neither means Comey was acting in the best interest of the United States or the FBI.

Indeed, this house of cards collapsed with Trump's victory, though, because suddenly the investigation into the ties between Russia and people from Trump's orbit have become important. And Comey treated privileged information on the Trump campaign differently from that on Clinton.
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Apr 17, 2018, 01:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
… as opposed to the situation now
Yes. Absolutely.

I haven’t heard a serious argument the Russians, or anyone in Trump’s orbit, did something to call the legitimacy of the election into question.

This would not be the case if it appeared the country’s top law enforcement agency had concealed evidence of Hillary committing a crime.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 01:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
even the small blip that “new” emails had been discovered on Weiner's laptop.
We can trade Weiner corrections.

According to Comey, they really were new. It had a bunch of emails from the Blackberrys which got smashed.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 02:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yes. Absolutely.

I haven’t heard a serious argument the Russians, or anyone in Trump’s orbit, did something to call the legitimacy of the election into question.
Three things here: first of all, the mere fact that there was sufficient evidence to start a discussion was and should be a political scandal. And if the FBI had confirmed the existence of said investigation might have had the same effect Comey's reveal of the Clinton investigation had, a tilt of the election. At the time Comey made the Weiner emails public, 538.com had Trump's chances at 17-19 % (off the top of my head from this morning's podcast on that matter) and it swung significantly after that. As a result, Comey has to grapple with the fact that his actions (≠ Russian interference) significantly influenced the outcome of the 2016 election.

The second point is something that most people reflexively misunderstand: one realistic option is that there was an attempt by Russia to infiltrate the Trump team, where Trump did not knowingly cooperate with Russians, but did so indirectly. In that case, the FBI investigation would have been a way for the FBI to protect then-candidate and now-President Trump as well as the country. You don't want moles for other countries at the highest level of government.

Lastly, I have to say that the Russian operation was a success — not because there is irrefutable evidence that the Russian interference successfully tilted the election in Russia's favor, I believe this is an unanswerable question, but because it has successfully undermined faith in the 2016 Presidential Election.

So yes, the US is in the same mess as in your hypothetical scenario.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This would not be the case if it appeared the country’s top law enforcement agency had concealed evidence of Hillary committing a crime.
You choice of words is not apt here: there was an ongoing investigation into whether Hillary Clinton committed a crime. To protect the rights of innocent people, people are presumed innocent until proven guilty, investigations are and should be kept a secret. Moreover, if information is partially leaked before an investigation is concluded this can influence how a case plays out to the detriment of everyone. Not disclosing that an investigation was ongoing would not have been concealing evidence — all the law enforcement officers working on the case were privy to the evidence —, it was protecting the integrity of an investigation and the reputation of someone who has not been convicted of a crime.

In the end, Clinton has not been charged with anything, but nevertheless paid a price for it. I don't think this is just.
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Apr 17, 2018, 02:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
We can trade Weiner corrections.

According to Comey, they really were new. It had a bunch of emails from the Blackberrys which got smashed.
Again, you made that setting sound nefarious when the actual explanation is quite simple and straight-forward: Weiner's wife occasionally used her ex-husband's laptop for her work. No nefarious emails were found.
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Apr 17, 2018, 02:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Again, you made that setting sound nefarious when the actual explanation is quite simple and straight-forward: Weiner's wife occasionally used her ex-husband's laptop for her work. No nefarious emails were found.
Yes. Which is why you corrected me.

Later on you put “new” in quotes. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought that was meant to imply there were no emails on the laptop the FBI hadn’t already seen.

If I did misunderstand, my apologies.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
In the end, Clinton has not been charged with anything, but nevertheless paid a price for it. I don't think this is just.
Is it not readily apparent this argument hinges on knowledge of Hillary’s innocence?

Comey did not have this information available to him when he made the decision.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You choice of words is not apt here
The pivotal word in my statement is “appearance”.

It doesn’t matter if what the FBI does is legit if it has the appearance of illegitimacy.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 09:03 AM
 
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I put the hand size in the same category as the moralizing about Trump’s marriage, but I find the hands a far less interesting example, so I wanted to focus on the moralizing.
The majority of the current Republican voting base doesn't hold strong positions on a traditional, Biblical view of hand size, so they're different in my book.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 11:47 AM
 
Hairy psalms.



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Apr 17, 2018, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
All of the players involved here have been life long Republicans, and appointed and confirmed by Republicans, Comey, Mueller, the judge who signed off on the Cohen warrant.
In the 20/20 clip he says his wife and daughters voted for HRC and participated in the 1/21 march.
     
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Apr 17, 2018, 12:27 PM
 
Mixed marriages are a thing.
     
 
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