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London Bombings (Page 5)
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Wiskedjak
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Nobody has mentioned racism. Except the libs.
Nobody has mentioned xenophobia. Except the libs.
That's possibly because racists and xenophobes are rarely aware that they are
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:28 PM
 
If we could just kick our oil habit..we'd leave the region alone: problem solved. The West has had its greedy nose in the Mid East for a century, whether it was to expand its influence or for access to oil.
We were always there as "liberators" btw.

Does it surprise anyone that 100 years of this medling has spawned bitterness? So what do we do? We kick off the new century the same way the British and French started the last century. Invading countries and pissing off more people. Brilliant.
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Let me explain something to you about freedom and democracy in the west. We make our own choice. If we want to drink beer we do. If you don't want to drink beer, you don't have to. But you have no rights whatsoever to stop us from drinking it by denying us planning permission for the facilities to do so.

That's how freedom works. You should experiment with it sometime.
Do you live in the UK, Sherwin?

We _do not_ make our own choice. We elect people to make choices for us. If we want to drink beer, and the governemnt says that we can't, then guess what? - we can't. And it is not just your pet hate that is against drink - there are many non-Muslim groups that are pressuring to reduce alcohol sales, particularly to (among others) islamophobe louts.

If 'you' is the local, democratically elected council / government, then yes, they absolutely can do what you suggest they can't.

It's called democracy. It sucks, but its better than the police state that you advocate, where you lock people up because you don't like them, you beat them up in public (regardless of guilt) because of your petty prejudices, you aspire to (but aren't bright enough to reach) islamopobia, and generally do anything you like to anyone that you don't.

And everyone else here - Sherwin does not represent a majority in the UK.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by CreepingDeth
Uh-oh. Looks like it hasn't gotten any better.

Thread neededs teh lockination.
If it upsets you to read a dissenting opinion, don't read the thread.

You are free to ignore it - no-one is forcing you to read any of this.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Sherwin
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
Do you live in the UK, Sherwin?
Yep.

Originally Posted by christ
And everyone else here - Sherwin does not represent a majority in the UK.
Correct. The majority takes the more liberal view (open borders, complete ignorance of cultural incompatibilities, etc.) then wrings their hands when something like this atrocity happens.

I'm done in this thread. Nothing will be resolved. This will happen again. Then there'll be more wringing of hands. And more not resolving things. And so on and so forth.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:44 PM
 
They must not have any credible/decent schools IN the mideast.
I never met an educated islamist, just the raving illogical screamers.

I guess when all you have is screamers it's easy to sway them into being terrorists.
     
CreepingDeth
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:45 PM
 
Know what? You can stop putting words into my mouth. It's not the 'dissent,' it's the ********, ad hominid remarks, the bickering, the name calling, the bitching, screaming and whining. This thread is going absolutely nowhere and nobody is going to change anyone's mind, especially here.

And for the love of Gawd, stop calling people fascists, racists, xenophobes, or whatever. Especially when the person who uses those remarks complains about people insulting the millions who died in WWII.

     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Yep.



Correct. The majority takes the more liberal view (open borders, complete ignorance of cultural incompatibilities, etc.) then wrings their hands when something like this atrocity happens.

I'm done in this thread. Nothing will be resolved. This will happen again. Then there'll be more wringing of hands. And more not resolving things. And so on and so forth.
So the majority is wrong, heh - democracy is a _bitch_ ain't it.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Sherwin
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
So the majority is wrong, heh - democracy is a _bitch_ ain't it.
Yep. Especially around May 6th when we get the same idiotic government voted in on just 22% of the available vote.
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by CreepingDeth
<snip>
Sorry - I didn't intend to put words into your mouth, so I'll try again, with an approved word:

If it upsets you to read bickering, don't read the thread.

You are free to ignore it - no-one is forcing you to read any of this.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Yep. Especially around May 6th when we get the same idiotic government voted in on just 22% of the vote.
You must be really pissed off - the majority is against you, _and_ the party in power is against you. What a pisser.

It must almost seem that someone is trying to tell you something,
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
Lord.Schwarzung
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
I'm done in this thread. Nothing will be resolved. This will happen again. Then there'll be more wringing of hands. And more not resolving things. And so on and so forth.
There are many idiots here in American as well. The best thing you can do is to be as annoying and loud as them to let them know that their opinion isn't the only one around. Or else, they'll think the whole world is liberal.

You want to read something funny?

The day after the 2000 US Presidential election, my coworker, God bless her hippie soul, turned to me and said blindly, "they stole the election from us!" How pretentious for her to think I was a Democrat!

That's how close minded and ignorant liberals in these United States have become. They assume everyone else thinks like them.

Keep on posting!
     
Angus_D
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Did you not read my above post? I'm not going to spend my time educating you after the sh*t you've dished out.
Yes, but you're just wasting your time and prolonging a pointless argument.
     
nath
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:50 PM
 
Just got home after 3 hours on the overland trains. Things are pretty insane, I'm probably going to work from home tomorrow.

Sherwin - there will always be the possibility that this will happen again, even in a totalitarian police state. Has the complete absence of civil rights in Iraq stopped the bombings? No.

But we are stronger than they are, because we will carry on anyway. I'll be back on the tube on Monday.
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
They must not have any credible/decent schools IN the mideast.
I never met an educated islamist, just the raving illogical screamers.

I guess when all you have is screamers it's easy to sway them into being terrorists.
Did you really think that an extremist who is willing to kill people would be rational?

OBL studied economy IIRC, Zawahiri is a physician.

But for goodness sake stop labeling all Arabs as uneducated. It reeks of racism.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Sherwin
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
You must be really pissed off - the majority is against you, _and_ the party in power is against you. What a pisser.

It must almost seem that someone is trying to tell you something,
Yep. And I'm taking notice. Feel free to enjoy your ID cards, petrol rationing, eye-in-the-sky motoring and thought police when I'm gone.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 7, 2005, 02:59 PM
 
<< But for goodness sake stop labeling all Arabs as uneducated. It reeks of racism. >>

DUH!!! did you READ THE WORDS I TYPED????

<< I never met an educated islamist, just the raving illogical screamers. >>

WHERE does it say "ALL"
     
Cody Dawg
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:00 PM
 
Wow. This thread is bringing out the best in everyone.



I heard that there is/was another bomb at Victoria Station.
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
<< But for goodness sake stop labeling all Arabs as uneducated. It reeks of racism. >>

DUH!!! did you READ THE WORDS I TYPED????

<< I never met an educated islamist, just the raving illogical screamers. >>

WHERE does it say "ALL"
you said: "They must not have any credible/decent schools IN the mideast. "

That means all Arabs(who live in the ME) are uneducated. So stop trying to spin what you said and just accept that you messed up.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg
Wow. This thread is bringing out the best in everyone.



I heard that there is/was another bomb at Victoria Station.
Let me see.

1. Advocating war against as well as nuking a nation that has about 70 million citizens.

and

2. Peing pissed off at the blatant islamophobia, xenophobia and bloodthirst being shown in this thread.

mhmmm, surely brings out the best in everyone...

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by nath
Just got home after 3 hours on the overland trains. Things are pretty insane, I'm probably going to work from home tomorrow.

Sherwin - there will always be the possibility that this will happen again, even in a totalitarian police state. Has the complete absence of civil rights in Iraq stopped the bombings? No.

But we are stronger than they are, because we will carry on anyway. I'll be back on the tube on Monday.
Good for you, nath. Keep your chin up!
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:18 PM
 
Glad everyone has their priorities on straight














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nath
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
Glad everyone has their priorities on straight
Is that sarcasm aimed at me randyman?
     
badidea
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
And everyone else here - Sherwin does not represent a majority in the UK.
We know!
I am with the majority today!!
***
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by nath
Is that sarcasm aimed at me randman?
No, natty. It was aimed at the idiots taking their personal grudges into this thread and totally losing sight of what happened in London today.

Though another instance of rand(y)man could get a mention of an

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nath
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
No, natty. It was aimed at the idiots taking their personal grudges into this thread and totally losing sight of what happened in London today.

apologies.
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Randman
No, natty. It was aimed at the idiots taking their personal grudges into this thread and totally losing sight of what happened in London today.

Though another instance of rand(y)man could get a mention of an
I have a slight issue with this.

I haven't lost sight of what happened here today.

I don't want it to happen again.

I had the same feelings about 9/11, and as far as I can see the US (and UK) response to 9/11 has led directly to 7/7 in London.

I felt that it may be evident to the hawks that the policies that we have adopted have failed, or 7/7 wouldn't have happened.

It distresses me that there are people that think the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq (to say nothing of the proposals in this thread for Syria and Iran) have actually helped to deter terrorism in some way.

Is expressing this in some way offensive to some?
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:44 PM
 
I ran across this rather late, but who knows maybe someone can use it:

Hotlines The British Transport Police has set up a telephone number for those concerned about a friend or relative. The telephone number is +44 (0) 20 8358 0101.

The Metropolitan Police also have a general hotline number set up; this is 020 7766 6020 (UK), or +44 20 7766 6020 (international).


The United States State Department has also set up a telephone hotline for US citizens with relatives or friends in the area. This number is +1 888 407 4747 (toll free in the United States).


The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has set up an Emergency Hotline on 1800 002 214 and a website to be used if people are unable to directly contact their family or friends in the UK.


The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs has also set up a tollfree emergency hotline on 1800 242 548 for those in Ireland seeking news of friends and relatives in London.


The BBC has just shown a new hotline number: 0870 1566 344


Please don't call these numbers or visit these websites if you do not have a genuine enquiry, they are extremely congested. This will give priority to concerned family and friends.
     
Sherwin
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Jul 7, 2005, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by christ
I have a slight issue with this.

I haven't lost sight of what happened here today.

I don't want it to happen again.
Likewise.

I've been here before. I lost a good friend on the Lockerbie flight and haven't seen much change since then.

We're all just looking for a solution. But we're looking from completely different angles.
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
We're all just looking for a solution. But we're looking from completely different angles.
Well stap me vitals - that's the closest that I've heard to sense for a while.

At least we have some common ground to start from...
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
AKcrab
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:10 PM
 
My heart goes out to London.

I keep thinking that the Muslim extremists actually WANT WWIII. Infidels vs. Islam. Unfortunately, every time we invade another Muslim country, I think it puts us that much closer to a huge conflict.

I've been flamed before for wanting to actually find out what these terrorists want, and seeing if there is a way to convince them to stop. BUT, if their goal is an absolute Islamic world, what the hell are we supposed to do?

You can't militarily fight ideology.
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by AKcrab
You can't militarily fight ideology.
Sure you can, but you run the risk of calling it a "religious" war, which is what the Islamic extemists want.
     
christ
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lord.Schwarzung
Sure you can, but you run the risk of calling it a "religious" war, which is what the Islamic extemists want.
If that is what they want, and you know that is what they want, and it is not what you want, then why would you do it?
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by AKcrab
My heart goes out to London.

I keep thinking that the Muslim extremists actually WANT WWIII. Infidels vs. Islam. Unfortunately, every time we invade another Muslim country, I think it puts us that much closer to a huge conflict.

I've been flamed before for wanting to actually find out what these terrorists want, and seeing if there is a way to convince them to stop. BUT, if their goal is an absolute Islamic world, what the hell are we supposed to do?

You can't militarily fight ideology.
That's the thing. You don't try to find out what current terrorists want. You find out what it is that drives people into becoming terrorists and see what you can do about that. There are a lot of things that can be done without losing your pride(since that seems to be all this war is about).

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg
Gotta say it: Where are the bleeding heart liberals who are going to say that we're too hard on terrorists now?


I'm right here, and I'd like to ask you if this is the success in the war on terror Bush keeps talking about. Because, call me nuts, but I don't see annual major attacks since 9/11 as huge strides forward in global terrorism.
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Jul 7, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lord.Schwarzung
Sure you can, but you run the risk of calling it a "religious" war, which is what the Islamic extemists want.
Ummm... Military campaign against an idea... that would indeed be a religious war, regardless of who started it.
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Jul 7, 2005, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
That's the thing. You don't try to find out what current terrorists want. You find out what it is that drives people into becoming terrorists and see what you can do about that. There are a lot of things that can be done without losing your pride(since that seems to be all this war is about).
but what if losing pride means giving up your SUV? It really stems from oil, or "natural resources".

these terrorists want italy and denmark (specifically) out of iraq and afghanistan.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.
bush was just in Denmark yesterday specifically for manning a token force in the war on terror. i don't know what italy's deal is right now.
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Jul 7, 2005, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by nath
Just got home after 3 hours on the overland trains. Things are pretty insane, I'm probably going to work from home tomorrow.

Sherwin - there will always be the possibility that this will happen again, even in a totalitarian police state. Has the complete absence of civil rights in Iraq stopped the bombings? No.

But we are stronger than they are, because we will carry on anyway. I'll be back on the tube on Monday.
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:03 PM
 
So...the War on Terror is going well then.....
     
altocumulus
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:10 PM
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
Above the soldier is a verse from the Koran. Below is a Pashtu tribute to the mujaheddin, who are described as obedient to Allah. Such men will sacrifice their wealth and life itself to impose Islamic law on the government, the text says.
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:12 PM
 
Because, call me nuts, but I don't see annual major attacks since 9/11 as huge strides forward in global terrorism.
Okay. You're nuts. There. You happy? I think that NOT having "major attacks since 9/11" a pretty good step in the right direction. Frankly, if you don't think that then yes, I think you're "nuts."

     
goMac
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:14 PM
 
So the quote telling people to impose islamic law on government wasn't from the Koran, but some crazy guy. Your point? Read the text you just quoted.

"Above the soldier is a verse from the Koran. Below is a Pashtu tribute to the mujaheddin, who are described as obedient to Allah. Such men will sacrifice their wealth and life itself to impose Islamic law on the government, the text says."
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg
Okay. You're nuts. There. You happy? I think that NOT having "major attacks since 9/11" a pretty good step in the right direction. Frankly, if you don't think that then yes, I think you're "nuts."

Of course, there wasn't much in the way major attacks prior to 9/11 either. From my perspective, things have gotten neither better, nor worse.
     
goMac
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg
Okay. You're nuts. There. You happy? I think that NOT having "major attacks since 9/11" a pretty good step in the right direction. Frankly, if you don't think that then yes, I think you're "nuts."

Why would the terrorists need to attack us again? Terrorists want to cause terror, not necessarily kill people (hence the word terrorists), and last I checked, America is still pretty terrified. I mean, we're running around invading countries and pumping up security beyond justifiable levels, even stomping over constitutional rights. We sound pretty terrorized to me. Sounds like the terrorists don't need another strike right now. One strike seems to have done the job.
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von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cody Dawg
Okay. You're nuts. There. You happy? I think that NOT having "major attacks since 9/11" a pretty good step in the right direction. Frankly, if you don't think that then yes, I think you're "nuts."

Reading comprehension much?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac
Why would the terrorists need to attack us again? Terrorists want to cause terror, not necessarily kill people (hence the word terrorists), and last I checked, America is still pretty terrified. I mean, we're running around invading countries and pumping up security beyond justifiable levels, even stomping over constitutional rights. We sound pretty terrorized to me. Sounds like the terrorists don't need another strike right now. One strike seems to have done the job.
The terrorists don't need to strike the US again. It's enough to target high-profile targets like Madrid, London, Bali, Beslan etc because it reminds the US of what they can do. The US is playing right into the terrorists hands. They invade other countries creating more propaganda material to the terrorists. They have stamped out various human rights, again creating more propaganda for the terrorists to use and the list goes on. If this continues(which seems very likely) this war will never end. And that is exactly what the terrorists want.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Big Mac
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Of course, there wasn't much in the way major attacks prior to 9/11 either. From my perspective, things have gotten neither better, nor worse.
Uh huh. What about World Trade Center '93 and the Cole? And internationally, what about Khobar Towers and the Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies? How quickly many forget. The leftist apologists and the other terror sympathizers will tell you that these acts done in the name of Islam are the result of alleged imperialist oppression. There were radical Muslims before 9/11. There were radical Muslims before the reconstitution of Israel. The Crusades were a direct consequence of Islamic incursions into Europe. Islam was born a radical religion.

"And he will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be upon all, and everyone's hand upon him..."
( Last edited by Big Mac; Jul 7, 2005 at 06:32 PM. )

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davesimondotcom
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac
Uh huh. What about World Trade Center '93 and the Cole? And internationally, what about Khobar Towers and the Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies?
Well, that's just in recent history and committed by Islamic terrorists. Don't forget the Beruit hostages. Or Ross Perot's guys who were kidnapped in Iran.

And, of course, don't forget that 10 years ago, Oklahoma City had a visit from Tim McVeigh and friends.
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goMac
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac
Uh huh. What about World Trade Center '93 and the Cole? And internationally, what about Khobar Towers and the Kenyan and Tanzanian embassies? How quickly many forget.

"And he will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be upon all, and everyone's hand upon him..."
Any country with an active military has terrorism. Britain, France, Isreal, all have terrorism. America seems to think it's the special child, and we're somehow so undeserving and unique in our plight. Everyone has terrorism. Americans overreact to everything though. If a country can't deal with having terrorism, they shouldn't get involved in world politics, plain and simple. If you have something to say on the world stage, someone is going to get mad over it. Personally, I think we should continue being involved in world politics, but we need to get used to terrorism. Everyone else has.
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mojo2
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Jul 7, 2005, 06:34 PM
 
Pardon me, but I just heard and wanted to contribute my condolences. It is terrible and I wish it hadn't happened to you. There are some who will say it is because you took the US's side in Iraq. Your courage is being tested by the creeps and this is no time to let the bastards think they can cower you!

Haven't read any of the preceding posts but I'm looking forward to seeing the reaction of some of our British and Canadian posters.

Galloway is a steaming, smelly, audaciously turd-like being.

You guys keep a stiff upper lip!

     
 
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