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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > I'm a windows user, and I bought a macbook

I'm a windows user, and I bought a macbook (Page 2)
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olePigeon
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Feb 21, 2007, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by macbaby View Post
Yes, MAPI is proprietary to Windows.

Remember, Outlook+Exchange is not simply mail, it's more collaboration and communication. Yes, Exchange also supports POP and IMAP clients as well. But its true bread and butter shows when you have Outlook connecting to it.

I just find it surprising that Entourage cannot replicate the experience, even though it comes from MS.
Entourage can interact with Exchange Server. We have it at my college. You can modify calendars, meetings, folders, etc. with it.
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macbaby  (op)
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Feb 21, 2007, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Entourage can interact with Exchange Server. We have it at my college. You can modify calendars, meetings, folders, etc. with it.
I didn't say that it couldn't interact with Exchange, but that it is limited to the functions of OWA.
     
ibook_steve
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Feb 21, 2007, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by macbaby View Post
We could go back and forth about this until the cows come home. I did not intend to create such a thread.

The link for Entourage vs Outlook is above.
Are you telling me that this from the Wikipedia link is why Entourage doesn't work as well with Exchange as Outlook?

"Such missing features include the "Out of Office Assistant", read receipts, and certain server side rules."

If that's it, I'm not missing much.

Steve
     
macbaby  (op)
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Feb 21, 2007, 06:38 PM
 
I just tested it here at work, and it's definitely not as fast, and that I knew. I found myself sending-receiving too often, especially when my blackberry was receiving email quicker. When it comes to email being the lifeline of our company, speed matters.

The features you listed above are helpful in corp environments.
     
Mike O'Brien
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Feb 21, 2007, 06:51 PM
 
Sudden fan noise is caused by high temperature. Mostly, this means your CPU is pegged at 100%. In the case of the original poster, this was probably caused by the analysis of his big (perhaps RAW format) photos and their conversion to JPEG format. That'll eat CPU for sure, and since it takes a while, the CPU has time to heat up. Hence the fan kicks in. My GF runs a vertical-market Windows app under Parallels, and because the Windows power management as expressed through Parallels is kind of coarse, her fan kicks in a lot when she's in Windows. You get used to it.

The typical freezeups I've seen have either been at the interface between Aqua and the rest of the OS, which is pretty raw stuff, or cases where virtual memory was getting crowded. I've had my Mac freeze solid when the VM system packed it in because a process had gradually gotten too large (think big old Java program with a memory leak [yes, it's Azureus]). I had to hold down the power button. On another occasion it took about five minutes for the pages all to get swapped in and released on exit. Gah. Frankly I am not terribly impressed with the memory manager in Mach. Its interface with FreeBSD is not particularly great. Well, FreeBSD itself (the native version) is still mucking with its own memory manager, so, pot, kettle, that thing. Still.
     
mrfish
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Feb 21, 2007, 08:26 PM
 
hey there

i have a 2 button mouse with mac 10.4.8 and have had since 10.3 and it works without any problem . the second button is similar in evry way to the windows second button and no special drvers or anything just plug and play
     
NewOrlenean
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Feb 21, 2007, 09:49 PM
 
Hi,
I am a long time Mac user (15 years) with more than ten years of Windows experience. Mac is a very stable platform. Still, when we have purchased two G5 PPC Quad computers, one kept crashing all the time. We had to send it back for replacement - it was a hardware problem. At work, I am presently using two G5 Quad PPC systems, two iMacs 20" (Intel-based), and one G4 PPC laptop - everything works smoothly and flawlessly. I am very pleased. I love Linux as well. I totally gave up Windows in 2004 and it was a great relief of constant pain.
NewOrlenean
     
SDW2001
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Feb 21, 2007, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by macbaby View Post
Just wanted to share my own thoughts on this. I'm a Windows user, have an MCSE, am an IT manager, and I bought a Macbook for my own curiosity. Also, was thinking about integrating it into our company. I am by no means a hater on either end - each has its own market.

1. It is definitely crashable. Not that anyone said it wasnt (though, by posts in other forums, you would think so), but in my normal internet use, I have managed to cause it to freeze.
2. I have had to once forcefully restart it (remove battery and power)
3. Realized that 512 MB ram is NOT enough, especially when using iPhoto.
4. A right-click button is sorely needed. When I use an external mouse (gasp - an MS bluetooth one), I can work so much quicker.

Questions:
1. What's with the 6GB of VM?
2. Why does the CPU fan sound like my book is going to take off? I wanted to clear my desk so it had a runway.


Overall, I am impressed. Gotta love how the thing wakes up from sleep almost immediately. Putting it to sleep is a viable option now. I will probably use it exclusively at home, only because my home desktop is getting old, and that I would probably use a laptop more anyways.
I'll add to the chorus of voices a bit here. First, crashing like that is concerning and not typical. I almost never have to restart my Mac for reasons like that.

I'd also bet it could be a RAM issue. First, 512 is just not enough for what you're doing. At this point in the platforms development, I'd say 512 is the bare minimum for any user. 1GB is a reasonable amount for the personal/consumer user. If you're an upper end consumer or prosumer, you need at least 1.5 and more likely 2GB.

I don't really feel the need for a right-click. I use Windows XP for work and I don't miss it at home, at least not usually.

The only thing I really ever have issues with is web site compatability. There some sites that simply do not support Macs in any form, particularly those with proprietary software-viewers/plugins and what not.

Good luck.
     
macbaby  (op)
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Feb 21, 2007, 11:14 PM
 
I'm going to keep my eye on the freeze ups. Hopefully it was just a one time thing. I will eventually upgrade the RAM, just not now. 512 works for what I want it to do. I'm still trying to get used to the platform.

Right click is great in Firefox when I want to open a link in another tab (I middle click links like a champ with an external mouse though).

Anyways - no need to keep this thread going on forever.
     
acoustimac
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Feb 22, 2007, 12:58 AM
 
Oh my...if you are using a version of Entourage earier than 2004 then you will have problems. It has so many bugs it never should have been released! It doesn't sync well with Exchange, sometimes duplicates your emails on the server (you can't see them...it just chews up your allocated space), and you can lose your calendar information.

I upgraded to 2004 and all of those problems disappeared.
     
DigitalEl
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Feb 22, 2007, 05:12 AM
 
+1 to the obvious logic that any computer can crash. However, I literally can't remember the last time a Mac of mine has locked or frozen or had to be rebooted. The only time I reboot is when running a Software Update which requires it. Seriously.

There is buggy stuff in OS X that just never seems to work right for me (Spotlight on my iMac, Mail.app rules), but much less than when I was in the Windows world.
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bloodline
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Feb 22, 2007, 07:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
The two-finger tap (or set down two fingers and click) is the most elegant solution I've seen on any laptop so far - as is the two-finger scrolling.
The Two finger click = right click, and Two finger scroll make the very inelegant concept of a mouse pad, one of the most beautiful and natural input systems available
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jough
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Feb 22, 2007, 08:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Try putting PowerDVD, one of the most widespread DVD player apps on Windows, into fullscreen mode. The ONLY place you can do this is right-clicking on the window itself while it is playing. I found out AFTER searching through every available menu and option.
Actually, you can double-left-click anywhere inside the video window and it'll play full screen. Double click again to go into window mode. Pretty convenient.

Also, one thing I *love* about playing video in Windows is that practically every Windows app uses the space bar as a standard for "pause/unpause" when playing video. So you're watching something and the phone rings - just tap the space bar. I did this the first time without even knowing the feature was there. I don't know why it felt instinctual. Of course, Quicktime for Windows doesn't work that way. I don't know if there are any other Mac video players other than VLC that do (or actually, even if the Mac version of VLC does).

And I know the Mac paradigm is not to maximize the window to cover the entire screen, but it would be nice to make videos play fullscreen in the default app without having to shell out for Quicktime Pro.

The Mac (or rather, OS X) isn't better than Windows in *every* area, despite the protestations from the faithful.

Not trolling - I'm looking forward to getting my Macbook next week - but in studying up it seems like there are some things that simply "just work" in Windows that require some more effort in the Mac, like playing a video full screen or right clicking on some selected text to copy it, etc. It's much faster than finding the menu item, scrolling down the menu with the mouse, etc.

Of course, I use the keyboard to cut/copy/paste anyway.
     
darcybaston
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Feb 22, 2007, 11:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by jough View Post
Of course, Quicktime for Windows doesn't work that way.
Yes it does. I just opened a .wav file in Quicktime on my work WindowsXP computer, hit the space bar, and it played. Hit it again, paused, hit it again and it resumed play.

I don't know if there are any other Mac video players other than VLC that do (or actually, even if the Mac version of VLC does).
I control VLC on the Mac using the space bar.

And I know the Mac paradigm is not to maximize the window to cover the entire screen, but it would be nice to make videos play fullscreen in the default app without having to shell out for Quicktime Pro.
Then you haven't used these free apps on the Mac: DVDPlayer, Opera, DivX player, VLC, and any emulator (UAE, SheepShaver, Stella, MAME etc.)/game that is set to go full screen. Heck, VLC will even open up full screen on multiple monitors if you've got more than one hooked up. You just tell it where to go. It's great for hooking up a MacBook to a TV via S-Video to watch full screen movies on the TV while leaving an controllable desktop/application UI on the laptop's screen.

like playing a video full screen or right clicking on some selected text to copy it, etc.
Apple computers come with a two button mouse, be it by trackpad or external USB or BlueTooth device. I've never used a one button mouse on a Mac. Never. You can highlight and right click to edit/copy/paste just as you can in Windows. I do it daily. I believe you're misinformed. Full screen playback is available on several apps. You're just not familiar with them yet. You have GREAT stuff to look forward to!
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Terrin
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Feb 22, 2007, 01:55 PM
 
Apple sticks with the one button mouse to appease long time users who actually find it easier. I am one of them. For what it is worth, Apple actually did tests along time ago when it first released a mouse to see how many buttons to use, and testers at the time preferred one button.

I am used to hitting the control key for that functionality. It should not be a problem, however, since you can plug in a Windows mouse. There are also utilites ( I think Fruit Menu is one of them) that allows you to get two button functionaility from one button.

Nothing holds water to Outlook Exchange because Microsoft has it tied down so nothing else can work well with it. Not much you can do if Microsoft doesn't want to let other's play as well. You can use Parrallels, which I do to run Wordperfect. afterall, that is one of the benefits of running the Mac, you can also run Windows (in a safe environment where it is partitioned off from OSX).

I am also surprized by your computer crashing. Applications crash occasionaly on my Mac. Also the Finder will occasionally freeze up. It is rare, however, to bring down the whole system. Often Mac newbies will think when the Finder Freezes the Mac is frozen. Most times, however, you can reset the Finder by either using forcequit or using the activity Monitor program (found in the utilites folder) to quit the application.

As far as the fans goes, I am not sure that is the norm. My dad has a Mac Book Pro, and I never hear the fan.

Originally Posted by macbaby View Post
I know about the two finger deal, but I'm not comfortable with it.

The fan has only come on when I imported a bunch of high res prof photos into iPhoto (I did not take the photos, so you dont even need to ask why I have a normal macbook and not the pro).

Macs wont work here at our site. Our CEO tried it for a few months, but was frustrated with Entourage. Nothing holds water to Outlook+Exchange.
     
Terrin
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Feb 22, 2007, 02:06 PM
 
I agree that there are a few thing better on Windows (for instance being able to delete indivdual items from the trash). However, on a Mac, the space bar in Quicktime does pause and start a movie. It would be strange if it did not work the same in Windows, which I do not honestly know if it does or doesn't. Also, version 7 of Quicktime allows full screen mode without having the professional version (at least on a Mac). I do concede, however, that this did not use to be the case.

Originally Posted by jough View Post
Actually, you can double-left-click anywhere inside the video window and it'll play full screen. Double click again to go into window mode. Pretty convenient.

Also, one thing I *love* about playing video in Windows is that practically every Windows app uses the space bar as a standard for "pause/unpause" when playing video. So you're watching something and the phone rings - just tap the space bar. I did this the first time without even knowing the feature was there. I don't know why it felt instinctual. Of course, Quicktime for Windows doesn't work that way. I don't know if there are any other Mac video players other than VLC that do (or actually, even if the Mac version of VLC does).

And I know the Mac paradigm is not to maximize the window to cover the entire screen, but it would be nice to make videos play fullscreen in the default app without having to shell out for Quicktime Pro.

The Mac (or rather, OS X) isn't better than Windows in *every* area, despite the protestations from the faithful.

Not trolling - I'm looking forward to getting my Macbook next week - but in studying up it seems like there are some things that simply "just work" in Windows that require some more effort in the Mac, like playing a video full screen or right clicking on some selected text to copy it, etc. It's much faster than finding the menu item, scrolling down the menu with the mouse, etc.

Of course, I use the keyboard to cut/copy/paste anyway.
     
darcybaston
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Feb 22, 2007, 02:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Terrin View Post
I agree that there are a few thing better on Windows (for instance being able to delete indivdual items from the trash).
Hey, I never thought of doing that. What situation would call for a single item to be cleared and not the whole Trash?
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Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2007, 04:56 PM
 
For the record, cmd+ctrl+power doesn't work on Intel Macs.
I am a Mac tech, and I have to say "Exchange & Outlook" is all I hear about when trying convert Windows business users. I have never worked out what makes it so great. Can you tell plesae give me an idea?

We actually had an Exchange server, but I eventually persuaded my boss to junk it for an Xserve running Kerio Mail Server. They claim it does (almost) everything Exchange does for a fraction of the price. It certainly works great for us. Whats the fuss about Exchange? I have only ever found it a pain, though thats mainly because it runs on Windows.

As far as your stability issues go, your Mac really shouldn't crash all that often. I find my own tend to more unstable than most healthy Macs, but I have a tendency to build mine from parts, not necessarily the ones Apple used. So its understandable.
If your MacBook is freezing, it could of course be due to an incompatibilty with certain websites (try another browser and see if it crashes). If it happens with other apps and weird and semmingly inconsistent times, it could be a hardware issue.
Make sure your OS and firmware are up to date, check your system log and panic log from Console to see if there is any clue to the cause. You should also find a hardware test on the system discs in the box. I would advise running a few loops and see if you get any errors (make a note of codes for Apple tech help).
     
analogika
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Feb 22, 2007, 08:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by jough View Post
Actually, you can double-left-click anywhere inside the video window and it'll play full screen. Double click again to go into window mode. Pretty convenient.
Yes, and completely useless if you don't actually discover it (the way you discover almost everything on Windows: by accident or the sheer desparation of wildly clicking *everywhere*).

Originally Posted by jough View Post
Also, one thing I *love* about playing video in Windows is that practically every Windows app uses the space bar as a standard for "pause/unpause" when playing video.
In 18 years, I have yet to find a single Mac app, audio or video, that doesn't use the space bar as "pause/unpause" command.
     
analogika
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Feb 22, 2007, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by bloodline View Post
The Two finger click = right click, and Two finger scroll make the very inelegant concept of a mouse pad, one of the most beautiful and natural input systems available
How much more elegant can it get to make this functionality seamlessly available without the slightest bit of clutter?
     
jough
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Feb 22, 2007, 08:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Yes, and completely useless if you don't actually discover it (the way you discover almost everything on Windows: by accident or the sheer desparation of wildly clicking *everywhere*).
Or you could, um, RTFM. I'm just saying.

Actually, in Windows you can double-click the title bar on pretty much any programme to maximize it. And resize a window by grabbing any edge. I like these things.

You can probably get there on the Mac by installing some 3rd party programme too. I'm not saying you *can't* do these things on a Mac.

Also, I didn't know that about Mac video players. The latest version of QuickTime (not Pro) on my machine doesn't pause when I press the spacebar. Weird.
     
skyman
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Feb 23, 2007, 10:25 AM
 
If your MB is freezing as much as you say it is then you have a hardware problem or a corrupt OS. I run my MBP constantly with dozens of applications open and I never shut down (just sleep). Yes, I have had non binary apps like Entourage freeze (I know, it's an MS app) but a simple force quit and I was back in business. I have never had a hard lockup like you are describing.

You should run the diagnostic disk and check for problems or call Apple. 800-SOS-APPLE.

Good luck and let us know.
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ibook_steve
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Feb 23, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
For the record, cmd+ctrl+power doesn't work on Intel Macs.
Sure it does. I just did it.

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parsec_kadets
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Feb 23, 2007, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tins View Post
On the notion of exchange, your right. And Apple has said they realize this is one of the main things keeping them out of the corporate world. A Mac version of Exchange is supposed to be in the works along with virtualization of Mac clients (which should be an available feature when leopard hits).
A couple things wrong with that you've said here. Apple isn't coming out with a Mac version of Exchange, they're coming out with a competitor to Exchange by beefing up CalDAV and iCal. There are two really detailed comparisons between Exchange and what Apple is developing here and here. The storage limits he explains are especially annoying to me. My company uses Exchange, and because of these limits emails are only kept on the server for a month and then deleted. It is up to each user to setup Outlook's AutoArchive to backup all their e-mail before it is deleted from the server. How any multi-national organization finds this acceptable is beyond me.

And as far as virtualization, Apple has said multiple times that Boot Camp is all we're going to get from them. They're not going to build virtualization into 10.5, and if that's what you want you better buy Parallels. Apple specifically endorses them, and I don't believe they would be doing that if they were planning to build it into OS X.
     
Albatrou
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Feb 23, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by davoud View Post
1. 3. No question about the right-click button. It is scandalous that Apple hasn't added a right-click button after all these years. And it's very surprising to me that no third-party vendor has come up with a clever add-on that can do the job.
Has anyone tried One Finger Snap software? It basically initiates a right click event by a simple click and hold process. I would highly suggest trying out the demo works great http://www.old-jewel.com/onefingersnap/
     
jeffridder
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Feb 23, 2007, 05:03 PM
 
For starters contrary to what others have said there is nothing wrong with the fans in you macbook. Any time you start to do any heavy cpu work they are going to come on. Remember that the Core 2's still are Speedstep CPU's and won't turn up the throttle until more CPU power is needed. And for what it's worth my Toshiba U205 (which is a mirror of the Macbook) actually makes more noise with the fan then the Macbook does

In regards to lockup and memory issues. 512MB? Get real! Remember you on a Intel 950 chipset machine so part of that has been allocated to the video (64MB if I remember correctly). So that leaves you 448MB. Would you run Windows on that? I think not. Even Kernel 2.6 on Linux would be paging big time on that doing graphic work.

Entourage: I hate to tell you this but MAPI went out the door in Exchange 2007. Why do you think Outlook 2003 works best in cached mode? They were prepping everyone even back then to move away from MAPI. The new Exchange is more like IMAP then it is MAPI. Will there be better support in Entourage? You bet there will. Microsoft has known for years they screwed up when they dropped Outlook for Mac so expect better support on the next go around with Entourage. All they have done so far with Entourage is provide a band aid fix to keep everyone happy.
     
chirpy22
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Feb 24, 2007, 02:23 PM
 
I have to say I'm not impressed with the way Macs work in a Windows corporate environment. I have used Macs for over 15 years, and I just started at a company that only has a few Mac users. I have a 3GHz Mac Pro wth 8GB of RAM!
I do not like the way the SMB protocol works. I can't browse the Windows network the way I can browse an Appletalk one. Why do I need to say "connect to server" and then type smb://blahblahblah to connect to a server? It should be as easy as seeing other Macs on the network.
Also, I have ahd constant Finder freezes with my Mac when copying files to the server. And it sometimes pauses for a minute before continuing to copy. This should not happen with the setup I have. I know it is not a wiring issue, nor an issue with the Windows server. It is software related.
Another thing, if someone renames a file or folder on the server and changes the case, the Mac will not recognize that the file has changed. It will remember the old name as well as seeing the new one. For example, if there is a folder named "blahBlah" and I or someone using a Windows machine (or another Mac) changes the name to "BLAHblah", the Mac (any Mac not just mine) will see two folders with both of those names. But when you delete one of them, the other is deleted as well. This is extremely confusing and needs to be remedied. Windows machines only see the one folder as it should be.

As far as the issues macbaby is having, for fonts I can only say, don't have 300 fonts loaded all at once, because it does slow down a Mac that doesn't have enough RAM. And whatever you do, don't use Apple's Fontbook to manage them. You will hate it's incredibly slow speed with anything over like 300 fonts.
     
darcybaston
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Feb 25, 2007, 12:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by chirpy22 View Post
I do not like the way the SMB protocol works. I can't browse the Windows network the way I can browse an Appletalk one. Why do I need to say "connect to server" and then type smb://blahblahblah to connect to a server? It should be as easy as seeing other Macs on the network.
If your Mac has been setup to use the same domain as the Windows network (see /applications/utilities/directory access), you can click on the 'network' sphere in any Finder's left-side bar, and browse the network as you would on a Windows machine. Printer browsing from the print center utility will also browse correctly.

Also, I have ahd constant Finder freezes with my Mac when copying files to the server.
What kind of server is it? NT, 2003? The most common freezes I've had are when a Windows server disconnects and a reconnect is made. Maybe the actual joining of the domain will help this.


Another thing, if someone renames a file or folder on the server and changes the case, the Mac will not recognize that the file has changed. It will remember the old name as well as seeing the new one.
File listing refreshing is often a problem on XP as well. I've deleted files in one Explorer window while another Explorer window pointed to the same path (on a networked drive) doesn't update without hitting F5. Have you tried switching views in the Finder real quick to refresh the view? Like switch from icon, to list, and back to icon?

You can probably prevent all case issues by reformatting your Mac's hard drive to be case sensitive. The default is to be formatted cased insensitive.
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el chupacabra
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Feb 25, 2007, 09:08 AM
 
It shouldn't crash. I have tiger installed on an 500mhz iMac G3 (a 6 year old puter). Its not even meant to install on this... I have never had the computer crash/freeze since I put tiger on a year ago. I leave this computer on 24/7 restarting it every few weeks when it gets slow.

Rarely an application will crash if I have 30+ windows open, but not the computer.

If your concerned about it you should reinstall the OS. If that doesn't fix it call apple; and of course they will jerk you around for a while, thats what they're doing to me now with problems I'm having w/ my G5...to be expected I guess.
     
chirpy22
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Feb 28, 2007, 01:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by darcybaston View Post
If your Mac has been setup to use the same domain as the Windows network (see /applications/utilities/directory access), you can click on the 'network' sphere in any Finder's left-side bar, and browse the network as you would on a Windows machine. Printer browsing from the print center utility will also browse correctly.
What kind of server is it? NT, 2003? The most common freezes I've had are when a Windows server disconnects and a reconnect is made. Maybe the actual joining of the domain will help this.
File listing refreshing is often a problem on XP as well. I've deleted files in one Explorer window while another Explorer window pointed to the same path (on a networked drive) doesn't update without hitting F5. Have you tried switching views in the Finder real quick to refresh the view? Like switch from icon, to list, and back to icon?
It is a 2003 server. My Mac is set up using the proper domain in the Directory Access utility. But the browse feature still does not work. Refreshing the view in the Finder does not solve the problem. The Mac thinks there are two folders there. Even if I shut down and come back 3 days later and look, it still thinks that way. It's reeeeeally annoying. It's like a permanently attached alias of the folder.

Originally Posted by darcybaston View Post
You can probably prevent all case issues by reformatting your Mac's hard drive to be case sensitive. The default is to be formatted cased insensitive.
Since you mention this, I think the problem is that my Mac IS formatted case sensitive and Windows machines are not. In any case, reformatting my hard drive is out of the question. Bottom line is that Macs do not work as seamlessly in Windows environments as Apple would like its customers to believe.
     
darcybaston
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by chirpy22 View Post
Bottom line is that Macs do not work as seamlessly in Windows environments as Apple would like its customers to believe.
It's regrettable that you've had a poor experience. I can't say I've had the same. I've always been able to browse if it's an NT or 2003 server. *shrug*

I was also successful in using a Bonjour equipped HP photocopy machine that was on an NT domain. I didn't even have to browse to it. It just showed up in my available printers list.
Macbook (white glossy) 2.16GHz | 4GB RAM | 7200RPM HD | 10.5.x
     
Old Mac
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Apr 27, 2007, 07:58 PM
 
What surprises me is all the posts talking about Apple's mouse not having a right click. Isn't anyone aware that the Apple introduced a "right clicking mouse back in 2005? The "Mighty Mouse" (and its wired equivalent) gave us a right click ages ago.
     
besson3c
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Apr 27, 2007, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by macbaby View Post
I'm not worried about running native windows apps - all our apps are web-based using Tomcat. We are very email reliant, which is why I brought up Outlook+Exchange.
If you are small enough in size, Zimbra is a popular Outlook+Exchange alternative.
     
besson3c
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Apr 27, 2007, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by itguy05 View Post
Probably not. MS has no incentive to support Exchange on other than Windows platforms. You see, Exchange/Outlook is one of the few things that keep companies tied to Windows.

And I've never understood what the hubbubb about Exchange and Outlook is. It's a poor server app (I've admin'ed it.) and pretty much binds you to Windows and MS's upgrade treadmill. Outlook is a decent app, but I never got what was so great about it.

That being said, if you want true cross platform messaging, you have to get away from MS. Notes is a contender that's cross platform, but the UI takes some getting used to. On the server side, Notes is supported by lots of platforms (Mac, Linux, AS/400, AIX, etc) where Exchange is Windows only.

That's probably the only way to get tight integration - get away from Exchange. There are plenty of much better options out there....

Exchange (and any Groupware system) is also very expensive to run in comparison to straight IMAP.

What Exchange does that is so great is stuff like delegates, shared calendaring, and shared mailboxes. Many IMAP servers support shared mailboxes (e.g. Cyrus, Courier), but don't provide an interface for sharing your mailboxes like Outlook does. Shared calendaring is a puzzle piece Apple is aiming to solve with Apple Calendar Server, which will be released with Leopard Server, and is actually fully functional and usable today. This just leaves support for delegates and possibly a few other organizational features to figure out.

Addressing the post that Apple will be releasing an Exchange client in Leopard, I highly doubt that. Their approach seems to be to focus on the calendaring issue by pushing the CalDAV standard, in writing this into the next version of iCal, and in writing their Calendar Server (and making this project open source).

Exchange 2007 supports some cool stuff though actually, such as integration will cell phones. They are the standard in Groupware, although projects like Zimbra have been gaining ground (which has a really nice web based client which seems to be better than OWA), and there is always Notes, Groupwise, Kerio, etc. too.

The way to compete with Exchange, I think, is to do exactly what Apple is, and that it is provide Groupware capabilities in standalone apps and specialized protocols, rather than trying to build another monolithic application ala Outlook/Exchange.

Exchange was not originally built by Microsoft, but was bought out from another company. It has gotten better in its scalability, but insists on assuming that it is the only mail environment within a LAN, and all mail and attachments are saved in a database. This leads to that database being very bloated very fast.
( Last edited by besson3c; Apr 27, 2007 at 08:32 PM. )
     
besson3c
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Apr 27, 2007, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Entourage can interact with Exchange Server. We have it at my college. You can modify calendars, meetings, folders, etc. with it.

It does not support delegates properly, as Entourage was designed to be used with a single server Exchange environment, which is of course not what Microsoft recommends using in an enterprise environment. This may have changed with one of the recent Office updates and/or Exchange 2007 though... I've lost interest in the chronicles of Entourage, but the app has always been a complete PITA.
     
LagunaSol
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Apr 28, 2007, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Tins View Post
macbaby, I'm a fellow recent switcher and take it from me don't bother with the methedone (double finger clicking, ctrl clicking, using a mouse cristened with by a santaria priest with a chickens foot, etc), there is no substitute for a right button on your mouse.
For me, double-finger clicking on my MacBook is FAR more comfortable and faster than a secondary button on my PC laptop. My PC laptop has 4 buttons, plus a scroll strip on the right side of the trackpad, plus the little pencil eraser mouse stick. I'd trade it all for the easy functionality of my MacBook's single, big button and large trackpad any day of the week. I prefer a real, multi-button mouse for my desktop computer, but as far as laptop trackpads go, Apple nailed it.
     
turntabletux
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May 5, 2007, 01:30 PM
 
I just got my macbook yesterday, after being a long time windows user. I have used linux a lot lately so I am quite at home with the mac osx. Some things are similar, so I can navigate pretty easily. I have noticed that I have crashed my system once. Overall, I am impressed and I love my new macbook. I need to get photoshop installed and then I'll be really happy.

MacBook Core 2 Duo 2GHZ 1GB of RAM
     
analogika
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May 6, 2007, 07:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by turntabletux View Post
I have noticed that I have crashed my system once.
?

How this?
     
ghporter
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May 6, 2007, 11:25 AM
 
Probably the way I did-I closed the lid WHILE my MBP was shutting down and confused the crap out of it. Once. I've had it for a year now.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
pcryan5
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May 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
 
<>Outlook with Exchange that you can't do with Entourage and Exchange.

I use and like both so this is not a one is better note. I like the PST / archive option for Outlook. Like many of us I get hundreds of emails a day at work and must reference them on a regular basis. Using the LOOKOUT add-in I am able to locate emails sent - received going back years in a second. I appreciate that. The integration with Word is also of real value. Finally - unless I am missing it (good chance of that!) I miss the way Outlook closes a message when you reply.

~P
     
besson3c
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May 6, 2007, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by pcryan5 View Post
<>Outlook with Exchange that you can't do with Entourage and Exchange.

I use and like both so this is not a one is better note. I like the PST / archive option for Outlook. Like many of us I get hundreds of emails a day at work and must reference them on a regular basis. Using the LOOKOUT add-in I am able to locate emails sent - received going back years in a second. I appreciate that. The integration with Word is also of real value. Finally - unless I am missing it (good chance of that!) I miss the way Outlook closes a message when you reply.

~P
Just out of curiosity, how is this any different than just dumping the mail into an appropriately named archive folder, and optionally unsubscribing yourself from this folder? Or, is this the same basic thing?
     
 
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