[selowitch]

Gayle Quinnell, 75, of Shakopee, approached McCain near the end of his hour long give and take with the crowd and told him she didn’t trust his opponent Barack Obama because “he’s an Arab.”

McCain shook his head and, taking the microphone from her, said “No, ma’am. He’s a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues.”

I see. So the opposite of "Arab" is "decent man" in the minds of McCain supporters? Such despicable racism! She probably meant "Muslim" (and doesn't know the difference because she's an ignoramus), but that hardly makes her remark and McCain's response any less reprehensible.

[voodoo]

Political correctness works like valium for me

[Timo]

Shakopee is not the most progressive of burgs.

[gradient]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Political correctness works like valium for me

This doesn't have much to do with being politically correct. It's pretty clear statement on the misinformation and hate mongering that has been going on in our society for quite some time now and the backwards notions, intolerance and racism that it has helped breed. This is nothing new, of course.

There are just so many things wrong with that brief exchange that I barely even know where to start.

[Person Man]

Why isn't this in the PL?

[Shaddim]

wrong forum

[Kerrigan]

Who cares. Plus, we all know that the Democrat party is seething with its own racists.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Who cares. Plus, we all know that the Democrat party is seething with its own racists.

Hah... weren't you the one who said "Arab" is a racial slur? I guess you are with those conservative crowd at the McCain convention.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...2/#post3738027

I heard Obama is an Arab. McCain - Oh no, he is a decent man.

[scaught]

^ I just looked up Strom Thurmond to playfully banter your claim, and saw he called himself a democrat until 1964. HAhaha

[turtle777]

What ?

Obama is a decent Arab ? I knew it...

-t

[goMac]

It's gone too far beyond McCain for him to stop it, especially with Palin making it worse. The wheels are completely coming off his campaign, and his supporters are down to the hating Obama because of personal reasons crowd.

[zerostar]

I was going to go to the clearwater rally recently, this is the FIRST ever campaign rally I was actually scared to show up. They need to get these rallys under control or they will have to suspend them too. (or move them all to more progressive areas)

[MallyMal]

Here's the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMloaj6b68

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by MallyMal 

Here's the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMloaj6b68

Actually, I was referring to this exchange. In the one you linked to, McCain could almost be accused on being kind to Obama.

[MallyMal]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

Actually, I was referring to this exchange. In the one you linked to, McCain could almost be accused on being kind to Obama.

I know, there are two exchanges in the video I posted.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by MallyMal 

I know, there are two exchanges in the video I posted.

Right you are. Shame on me for being impatient!

What's so galling to me is that it looks like the woman intended to smear Obama for being a Muslim (i.e., attacking his religion) and ended up smearing him for being an Arab (i.e., attacking his race). She's too dumb to know the difference, and McCain was too spineless and opportunistic to correct her. Instead, he seemingly accepts the logic that to be Arab/Muslim is itself something to be objected to.

Do Republicans know that there are roughly 5 to 6 million Muslim citizens of the United States, and that of those, roughly 1.2 million of them are also Arabs (which means about 80% are non-Arab)?

Leave it to bigots to wholly conflate "Arab," "Muslim," and "terrorist" with no understanding of the distinction between the three.

This makes me think that maybe the incident of the ballot misprint in New York ("Barack Osama") was no accident.

[hyteckit]

Whatever works for the conservative base. Race baiting and inciting hate.

"Hussein", "Arab", "Muslim" is associate with something bad to the conservative base. It plays of their fears and prejudice towards people who are different.

Obama sounds a lot like Osama. Oh no!

McVeigh sounds like McCain, oh no McCain is a terrorist.

[Chuckit]

I thought McCain's response was fine. She obviously meant that Obama was opposed to American values, and McCain responded to that. If she'd made that comment about an actual Muslim (and/or Arab?) whom McCain respected, he probably would have explained that they aren't all evil then, but it wasn't the most germane point in this particular situation. I don't think I would have bothered either.

[PaperNotes]

T.E. Lawrence lived among the Arabs as one of them and concluded they were greedy, barbarous and cruel. Things haven't changed much. It's sad because they have so much potential but are trapped in a culture of self-imposed love of authoritarian rule which breeds ongoing violence and hate.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by gradient 

There are just so many things wrong with that brief exchange that I barely even know where to start.

OMG. The woman cited Obama's "alleged" race while espousing the "nefarious" nature of it. McCain addressed the "nefarious" nature of it and in fact, was actually very fair. Nothing to see here unless you're absolutely in the tank for one party or another. Plain and simple.

Get over it.

[selowitch]

"Arab" is an ethnic designation. Imagine if the woman had said she was sure Obama was "black" or a "Jew" in the same context, and McCain had said, "No, he's a decent man." Clearly there's a double standard, because had the latter been the case, John McCain would no longer be the Republican nominee this morning, guaranteed.

Or suppose McCain had been addressing the NAACP and someone in the audience had said of Obama, "I just know he's white" (After all, he does have a white mother).

Anti-Arab bigotry is apparently acceptable among these people. How disgusting! Arab. Muslim. Terrorist. What's the difference? Among McCain Republicans, the three categories are conflated and synonymous. How ignorant. How scary. How reprehensible!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

"Arab" is an ethnic designation. Imagine if the woman had said she was sure Obama was "black" or a "Jew" in the same context, and McCain had said, "No, he's a decent man." Clearly there's a double standard, because had the latter been the case, John McCain would no longer be the Republican nominee this morning, guaranteed.

Or suppose McCain had been addressing the NAACP and someone in the audience had said of Obama, "I just know he's white" (After all, he does have a white mother).

Anti-Arab bigotry is apparently acceptable among these people. How disgusting! Arab. Muslim. Terrorist. What's the difference? Among McCain Republicans, the three categories are conflated and synonymous. How ignorant. How scary. How reprehensible!

Let me guess;
- Obama supporter
- dyed in the wool liberal
- anti-anything opposed to your Preferred Ideology™

If I am a Republican and in fact voting for McCain, I am a "McCain Republican". You reference this as such as a bully tactic to imply that all Republicans who vote a certain way or hold world views that conflict with your own; are somehow nefarious. Something ignorant. Something scary. Something reprehensible. Interestingly, you're guilty of the exact same mentality that lead to the moronic question posed to McCain in the first place.

The facts;
- The woman claimed two things; she claimed to be "scared of Obama", then claimed "Obama is... he's an Arab."

McCain corrected both counts. The first correction was that Obama is not an Arab. The second is that he is nothing that should be feared. There is absolutely nothing to see here unless you're employing the same degree of intellect this older woman did.

Blind. Partisan. Stupidity.

[selowitch]

ebuddy, you have nothing whatsoever to base your opinion of me being a partisan on other than the fact that I am criticizing John McCain. It shows how little you know, because these days McCain is rightly taking fire from left and right alike.

You have no idea what my ideology is, so it's a bit awkward to try and criticize it.

What McCain should have said was, "Ma'am, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. If you hate someone because of who they are or where they were born or what faith they belong to, then I don't want your support or your vote."

Instead, in the few seconds he had to formulate a response, he thought to himself, "How can I exploit this to my advantage?"

[Eug]

You're stretching at best. Sure, he might have worded things a bit better, but overall McCain deserves kudos on this one.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You're stretching at best. Sure, he might have worded things a bit better, but overall McCain deserves kudos on this one.

Am I? You really think so, for real? Maybe. To me, it seemed quite outrageous, but perhaps I am overreacting.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

Am I? Maybe. Do you really think so? To me, it seemed quite outrageous, but perhaps I am overreacting.

You are overreacting.

Like I said, he could have worded it better, but didn't. However, McCain's intent seemed to be to cut this woman down, as she deserved, even though it might mean losing some of the racist vote. And I congratulate him for that.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You are overreacting.

Like I said, he could have worded it better, but didn't. However, McCain's intent seemed to be to cut this woman down, as she deserved, even though it might mean losing some of the racist vote. And I congratulate him for that.

Even though she may have meant it in a racist and prejudicial way, she didn't make it explicit. It really was McCain who took the next step by equating "Arab" with "bad person."

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You are overreacting.

Like I said, he could have worded it better, but didn't. However, McCain's intent seemed to be to cut this woman down, as she deserved, even though it might mean losing some of the racist vote. And I congratulate him for that.

Agreed.

[tie]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

"Arab" is an ethnic designation. Imagine if the woman had said she was sure Obama was "black" or a "Jew" in the same context, and McCain had said, "No, he's a decent man." Clearly there's a double standard, because had the latter been the case, John McCain would no longer be the Republican nominee this morning, guaranteed.

First of all, he absolutely would still be the Republican nominee this morning. He'd have energized the base. Do you not follow Republican political tactics? Second of all, that wasn't the situation. McCain knows that his typical voter thinks that Arab = terrorist, and that that was what the comment meant. He properly addressed his response to this.

[ort888]

Is this really a news story? Really?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

ebuddy, you have nothing whatsoever to base your opinion of me being a partisan on other than the fact that I am criticizing John McCain.

i.e. I nailed it. You're welcome to correct me and claim that you're simply a disenfranchised conservative. You're not criticizing John McCain alone. You're labeling people as "McCain Republicans" in an attempt to assume a bully pulpit and chest-pound ignorance. Just like the old lady in the video. Like I said, they exist through all ideologies.

It shows how little you know

How so?

because these days McCain is rightly taking fire from left and right alike.

So are you. McCain is not taking any fire on this incident from anyone other than the partisan shills with eyes moving to and fro for a Republican to indict.

You have no idea what my ideology is, so it's a bit awkward to try and criticize it.

I know you from your posts. Your delivery; weak. Your view; kneejerk. Your partisanship; patently obvious.

What McCain should have said was, "Ma'am, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. If you hate someone because of who they are or where they were born or what faith they belong to, then I don't want your support or your vote."

That's right selowitch, just remove everything you don't want to hear.

Instead, in the few seconds he had to formulate a response, he thought to himself, "How can I exploit this to my advantage?"

ridiculous.

[The Crook]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You're stretching at best. Sure, he might have worded things a bit better, but overall McCain deserves kudos on this one.

He does.

Barack Obama said as much today in Philadelphia:

“I want to acknowledge that Senator McCain tried to tone down the rhetoric in his town hall meeting yesterday,” Mr. Obama said, speaking at an early-morning rally in North Philadelphia. “I appreciated his reminder that we can disagree while still being respectful of each other. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – Senator McCain has served this country with honor, and he deserves our thanks for that.”

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

T.E. Lawrence lived among the Arabs as one of them and concluded they were greedy, barbarous and cruel. Things haven't changed much. It's sad because they have so much potential but are trapped in a culture of self-imposed love of authoritarian rule which breeds ongoing violence and hate.

It's funny, because that's what a lot of people on the "left" and most Europeans think of America. Greedy, barbarous, cruel ... in love with leadership that ignores the rule of law and just does stuff unilaterally and laughs at our laws and treaties.

By the way, Lawrence expressed his sentiments (not verbatim to what you said .... that was actually a line from the movie) something around 90 years ago. At the time, the Ku Klux Klan was at its peak in the US with millions of members and Women did not have the right to vote. He was one man engaged in an "insurgency" against the Ottoman Empire and operated with a pretty rough crowd of people. So please, don't pretend that the viewpoint of Lawrence is the only "right" one and don't project even that assessment forward to 2008 ... a great deal of the world, including large portions of the US, were "barbarous" around that time.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I know you from your posts. Your delivery; weak. Your view; kneejerk. Your partisanship; patently obvious.

And I know you from your posts. Your grammar: incorrect; your use of the semicolon: improper; your partisanship: obvious, but no crime; your argument: weak.

[hyteckit]

Rachel Maddow's on the situation. First about McCain inciting all the anger and hate, then having to back away from it because it's getting to a danger point where Obama's life is in danger of the mob mentality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se_iKo3GwRg

[Dork.]

Pretty soon McCain will be singing about how we should never be rude to an Arab, or an Israeli, Saudi or Jew.

That's a Monty Python reference, of course.

[gradient]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

OMG. The woman cited Obama's "alleged" race while espousing the "nefarious" nature of it. McCain addressed the "nefarious" nature of it and in fact, was actually very fair. Nothing to see here unless you're absolutely in the tank for one party or another. Plain and simple.

Get over it.

McCain's comments could have been worse, granted. But he completely failed to correct the woman on her blunt insinuation that being Arab is bad. Indeed, he didn't directly address the Arab comment, merely jumping straight to saying that Obama was a decent man, effectively strengthening the insinuation that being Arab is indecent in some way.

This is completely backwards. If McCain wanted to stand up for the land of the Free, he should taken this as a perfect opportunity to emphasis that he believes all people, no matter their race or gender are equal. Isn't that the line of thinking that civilized society is supposed to encourage?

Do you not believe that our leaders should encourage equality?

This Arab=Muslim=Terrorist BS has got to stop. Why so many otherwise knowledgeable people find it acceptable is a mystery to me. Far more acts of terrorism have been committed in the USA by white christians then any combination of Arabs or Muslims. Period. Vastly more deaths have been caused by governments led by white folk and/or christians in the modern era then any other. Period.

It's easy for you to say "get over it", obviously. But for many of us we find it insulting and harmful in the same way that African-Americans find racism towards them harmful and in the same way that women find extreme sexism harmful.

Our society needs leaders that will stop the hate, not use it for their own gains.

And no, I'm not partisan to one party or the other. I just know right from wrong.

[stumblinmike]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Rachel Maddow's on the situation. First about McCain inciting all the anger and hate, then having to back away from it because it's getting to a danger point where Obama's life is in danger of the mob mentality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se_iKo3GwRg

That know-it-all Rhodes Scholar? I bet the wingnuts in the pol/war lounge would learn her a thing or two.

[stumblinmike]

Originally Posted by gradient 

McCain's comments could have been worse, granted. But he completely failed to correct the woman on her blunt insinuation that being Arab is bad. Indeed, he didn't directly address the Arab comment, merely jumping straight to saying that Obama was a decent man, effectively strengthening the insinuation that being Arab is indecent in some way.

This is completely backwards. If McCain wanted to stand up for the land of the Free, he should taken this as a perfect opportunity to emphasis that he believes all people, no matter their race or gender are equal. Isn't that the line of thinking that civilized society is supposed to encourage?

Do you not believe that our leaders should encourage equality?

This Arab=Muslim=Terrorist BS has got to stop. Why so many otherwise knowledgeable people find it acceptable is a mystery to me. Far more acts of terrorism have been committed in the USA by white christians then any combination of Arabs or Muslims. Period. Vastly more deaths have been caused by governments led by white folk and/or christians in the modern era then any other. Period.

It's easy for you to say "get over it", obviously. But for many of us we find it insulting and harmful in the same way that African-Americans find racism towards them harmful and in the same way that women find extreme sexism harmful.

Our society needs leaders that will stop the hate, not use it for their own gains.

And no, I'm not partisan to one party or the other. I just know right from wrong.

Well said, Gradient! The religious right is neither! (Gawd, I wish I made that line up. Priceless!!!)

[Chongo]

meh

[hyteckit]

I'm surprise that some say McCain couldn't see what his campaign and his 100% negative ads on Obama are doing. I brought it up a week ago about the conservative mentality, and that it'll lead to the mob mentality. It will lead to conservatives thinking Obama is a Muslim, a terrorist, and should be arrested and sent to Gitmo. It was a satire, something you would seen on Onion.com.

However, it's even worst then expected. You have the conservative base yelling "terrorist","kill him", and "off with his head".

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...bama-arrested/

vmarks think I was making a joke. No, I was making a point with satire.
stupendousman thought I was exaggerating. It's even worst.
RAILhead didn't get it, but only responses with a cat picture.
turtle777 doesn't think the conservative base would have so much hate.
Big Mac says conservatives aren't that crazy. They turn out to be even crazier.
chris v thinks it's a stupid thread. Hey, his opinion. What does he think of the wingnuts at McCain's convention now?


McCain's campaign is extreme, nasty, and frightening, inciting hate and fear from his conservative base.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

meh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSemkPChvHo

MEMRI has accurate and reliable translations.

[RAILhead]

I wonder why those clips never showed what the people on the other side were doing or saying that got the people in line so riled up?

[stumblinmike]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I wonder why those clips never showed what the people on the other side were doing or saying that got the people in line so riled up?

If I know my wingnuts, they were probably high-fiving each other, dancing and quoting scripture!

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani 

MEMRI has accurate and reliable translations.

The Israeli Propaganda ministry is "reliable"!

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

The Israeli Propaganda ministry is "reliable"!

MEMRI is not part of the Israeli government. I'm not saying they don't have a pro-Western, pro-Israel tilt; I'm merely saying that they're not quite the the "Israeli Propaganda Ministry."

Certainly, we know that some Middle Eastern governments (particularly Syria, Iran, and Egypt) have advanced some pretty ugly propaganda about Jews and Israelis in recent years, which IMO doesn't help to advance the cause of peace. To be fair, the American media has not been kind to Muslims/Arabs at all. I think the Israelis have tried to be a bit more even handed in their media (particularly via independent films) to portray at least some Muslims/Arabs in a more positive light, albeit with mixed results. Certainly, anti-Arab racism remains a serious problem in Israel, just as anti-Jewish racism persists in Muslim/Arab lands.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

And I know you from your posts. Your grammar: incorrect; your use of the semicolon: improper; your partisanship: obvious, but no crime; your argument: weak.

Oh come now I wasn't that far off the mark. I appreciate the heads up on the errors though. If you're not growing you're dying.

Once you're done with the red pen, you're welcome to actually address any of the points I've made. You know it's bad when even the weak arguments are too tough. Take your time.

IMO, you're acting outraged and it's silly.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Oh come now I wasn't that far off the mark. I appreciate the heads up on the errors though. If you're not growing you're dying.

Very graciously said.

Once you're done with the red pen, you're welcome to actually address any of the points I've made. You know it's bad when even the weak arguments are too tough. Take your time. IMO, you're acting outraged and it's silly.

OK, OK, I'll take a wee step back and take another look at this because you asked me to. Perhaps McCain really was trying to dissuade that lady from thinking unduly negative thoughts about Obama and he wasn't really being racist because he wasn't trying to equate "Arab" with "bad man," it just sounded that way.

But I doubt it.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

MEMRI is not part of the Israeli government. I'm not saying they don't have a pro-Western, pro-Israel tilt; I'm merely saying that they're not quite the the "Israeli Propaganda Ministry."

Certainly, we know that some Middle Eastern governments (particularly Syria, Iran, and Egypt) have advanced some pretty ugly propaganda about Jews and Israelis in recent years, which IMO doesn't help to advance the cause of peace. To be fair, the American media has not been kind to Muslims/Arabs at all. I think the Israelis have tried to be a bit more even handed in their media (particularly via independent films) to portray at least some Muslims/Arabs in a more positive light, albeit with mixed results. Certainly, anti-Arab racism remains a serious problem in Israel, just as anti-Jewish racism persists in Muslim/Arab lands.

Thx, I was wanting to know how accurate the translation was.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Thx, I was wanting to know how accurate the translation was.

I was responding to Sayf Allah's apparent suggestion that MEMRI was the Israeli Propaganda Ministry. I can't say whether MEMRI's translations are any good because my Arabic knowledge is minimal and my grasp of Modern Hebrew really isn't very good either, unfortunately.