[The Final Dakar]

Newspapers print in color.

[ort888]

magazines
photos
websites
tv shows
movies

I don't want an ebook reader. I want an all in one media device... and that needs a color screen.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Wait? What's that? You all want to see a picture of my baby? No? You don't?

Well too ****ing bad.

You do realize that this is the beginning of the end of your life don't you?

I have a 2 year old and a 5.5 year old.

[ort888]

I've been pretty lame for a while now. I'm not worried about it.

I'm just glad that I have someone to play video games with.

[ghporter]

It gets better with time. Except for the early teens, of course-NOBODY likes those times. My son is now 22, on his own and loving it. The icing on our parenting cake is when he says "thanks for not letting me get away with..." whatever he's seeing his friends having to get over. And he's tried several times to teach me how to play Halo with him, but I'm way too uncoordinated to be able to do it well enough-and he's patient and "nice" about it too.

On books: I like BOOKS. If I need reference material with me, I'd like to have electronic access to it, but PDF is fine, and there are several PDF-capable iPhone readers around...more than adequate for my needs.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Note that the Kindle version has a free sample, and the whole thing downloads in under a minute. Just saying.

Um, pick a book where there's a paperback version that doesn't cost more than the hardcover and the numbers will look different.

[Phileas]

I was on the fence until I've got a last generation Sony Reader through work.

The Sony bookstore sucks, especially up here in Canada where half the damn books aren't available, but the concept is rock solid and I'll be grabbing a new reader sometime in the new year. The mixture of instant gratification, the ability to carry a lot of reading material with you and the sheer convenience of these things makes them a winner for me. Sony has syncing software for the Mac, which is just about ok.

I still like paper books, but especially for light reading I would never go back to paperbacks. Readers all the way.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Um, pick a book where there's a paperback version that doesn't cost more than the hardcover and the numbers will look different.

You're right, they're usually the same price on Amazon, which is still discounted from what you'll pay in a bookstore.

So your choices are still, pay more for a hard copy in a bookstore, pay less but have the books in two days, or pay the same as the book delivered in two days but have it immediately, wherever you may be (digitally). People pay for convenience, duh.

And again, do people really need a hard copy of EVERYTHING? Even the junky book you'll read once and then throw away/give to someone?

[ghporter]

There is something very strong and important to me in holding a book, turning its pages and so on. It feels more "real" to me than reading text on a screen, even if that screen resembles a book page. So for stuff I really want to keep, yes I MUST have a hard copy. For stuff I'll read once or twice, a paperback is fine, and it gets me to head to Half Price Books to see what I can swap the paperback for. Books that I want to read over and over I get in hardback and never look back.

[starman]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

There is something very strong and important to me in holding a book, turning its pages and so on. It feels more "real" to me than reading text on a screen, even if that screen resembles a book page. So for stuff I really want to keep, yes I MUST have a hard copy. For stuff I'll read once or twice, a paperback is fine, and it gets me to head to Half Price Books to see what I can swap the paperback for. Books that I want to read over and over I get in hardback and never look back.

Agreed. It's more about the experience than the text you're reading.

That's one of the reasons I don't buy much from the iTunes store. Sure it's convenient, but I want to open the disc/album, read the liner notes, etc.

[Phileas]

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually used a reader. Not just looked at one in the store, actually used it to read a book.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually used a reader. Not just looked at one in the store, actually used it to read a book.

I couldn't get past page three. Annoyed the sh*t out of me.

[Phileas]

Glad to see you've given it a fair chance.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Glad to see you've given it a fair chance.

I'm sorry, should I have dropped $400 on a turd before I can say it smells?

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by starman 

I'm sorry, should I have dropped $400 on a turd before I can say it smells?

I just find it hard to understand why and how a reader could have the power to annoy you.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I just find it hard to understand why and how a reader could have the power to annoy you.

Again, am I supposed to just drop $400 and like it?

[Phileas]

You still haven't given me a reason why you disliked it so much.

I myself was on the fence about readers. Using one for a couple of weeks completely changed my mind. Instant purchases and an excellent screen make for a great reading experience. I would not use a reader to replace all paper books, but to call them "turds" seems.... uninformed at best.

The technology is actually impressive, the screens work well. You personally might not like them, and that's of course your right, but to make an absolute judgment based on personal preference strikes having little value.

[starman]

I care this much ><

[mattyb]

I want to like these readers, but 2G or 4G of space just isn't enough. I have loads and loads and loads of pdfs. And I do realise that one can by cards with extra storage. For me, for the price, its too expensive. But I would really really like to be able to have a large portion of my electronic book collection in a portable format. Hopefully the Nook will be popular and spur some more innovation.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by starman 

I care this much ><

Well, you started the thread, so maybe you should care a bit more, instead of coming off as a douche.

[osiris]

I still don't get these readers - they seem so limited in so many ways that the mere thought of buying one repulses my good common sense to such a degree that I would rather brush my teeth with Evian and imported Japanese whale blubber than buy one.

The only saving grace is the readability of the screen, which throws everything I said out the window. If only the MacBooks had something similar.

[The Final Dakar]

I haven't had the opportunity to hold one, let alone use it, but I imagine for bed reading I'd like it way more than regular books.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I haven't had the opportunity to hold one, let alone use it, but I imagine for bed reading I'd like it way more than regular books.

The smaller Kindle is quite light - for reading in bed it'll be easier on the eyes, or in your case a giant Cyclops eye, and less cumbersome with regards to page turning.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by osiris 

The smaller Kindle is quite light - for reading in bed it'll be easier on the eyes, or in your case a giant Cyclops eye, and less cumbersome with regards to page turning.

Don't talk ill of my wife.

[osiris]

Dude, she's hot!

[starman]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Well, you started the thread, so maybe you should care a bit more, instead of coming off as a douche.

Way to be the better man there. Off your Ritalin this morning?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by starman 

Way to be the better man there. Off your Ritalin this morning?

Excellent defense. My calling you out excuses your behavior?

[shifuimam]

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by starman 

I couldn't resist the urge to bait you.

Be sure and write a whole 7 paragraph blog post about this.

You must mean this one. From two years ago. Nice to see you still haven't grown up.

[paul w]

Wow, that was interesting. I'm going to read it again on my Kindle.

[starman]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

You must mean this one. From two years ago. Nice to see you still haven't grown up.

Shall I post your multi-paragraph love post you wrote about me, and RE-posted recently?

Pot, meet kettle.

[starman]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Excellent defense. My calling you out excuses your behavior?

You used to be funny.

Used to be.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by starman 

You used to be funny.

Used to be.

Two personal attacks, and not one acknowledgment of your hypocrisy.

[starman]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Two personal attacks, and not one acknowledgment of your hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

Well, you started the thread, so maybe you should care a bit more, instead of coming off as a douche.

Whatever. Try lightening up.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by starman 

Whatever.

The song of the defeated. You can't make an excuse for your rudeness but apparently my identifying it is scandalous.

Originally Posted by starman 

I care this much ><

Maybe you should lighten up too. Or maybe you could actually identify what your problem with the e-readers are, like Phileas asked, because it isn't very clear.

Originally Posted by starman 

Try lightening up.

Unless I'm being 'heavy' in all the other threads, I'm pretty sure that's not the issue.

So what disparaging remark do you have lined up for me next?

[starman]

So I played with one of these yesterday. The one in the store actually allowed you to buy books on it, so I bought one by Piers Anthony.

It doesn't feel as clunky as the Kindle, even though it's the same screen.
The color touchscreen is nice, but small, so you scroll up and down a lot.
It needs a home button. I had to hit "back" a LOT.
Two fonts, and I think 5 sizes. I suppose that's enough for people.
It's not too heavy. Heavier than an actual paperback.
I still don't like the time it takes to "turn" pages. About 4x as long as it takes to actually flip a page in a book.

I found myself very frustrated with it for two reasons:

1) No page numbers. This is because it has to "format" the book for the font/size you selected. That annoys me because you can't say "it's on page X" since there's no "page X" anymore. In fact, there's NOTHING that allows you to reference anything in a book other than text search.

2) No page flipping. I can find things fast in a book by doing a visual search, especially in math and science texts. With something like this, it's impossible. You can do a text search, but imagine doing a text search in a calculus book for the word "integral". On a future device I'd like the ability to actually "flip" through the pages in a book by sliding my finger across the screen.

The thing allows bookmarks which I suppose helps a little, but I still find myself wanting to hold a real book.

Oh, and I had another thought: books don't require power which means you'd have to turn this thing off on flights when asked.

It is easy to read on, but that's about all it can do for me.

[starman]

Making a new post instead of editing that one...

Here's what my perfect e-Reader is:

1) Color
2) Fast page flipping. Or, better yet, the ability to change the speed at which you flip.
3) Some kind of standard page numbering, or some way to reference points in a book to others that use a different font.
4) Wifi (not some other silly system)
5) The ability to read docs in most popular formats
6) Editing
7) Annotations
8) Touchscreen w/virtual keyboard
9) Easy sharing/lending
10) FAST page turning

So yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of a Nook-sized tablet.

[mdc]

I'm sorry to bring up the Kindle all the time in this post, but it's the only eBook reader I own and since starman is talking about points he wants I thought I'd chime in.

Originally Posted by starman 

Making a new post instead of editing that one...
Here's what my perfect e-Reader is:

3) Some kind of standard page numbering, or some way to reference points in a book to others that use a different font.

I haven't used the nook yet -- mainly because of DRM and all my Kindle books will be useless (but that's for a different post) -- but the Kindle uses locations. I'm pretty sure those work how you want.

Originally Posted by starman 

4) Wifi (not some other silly system)

Does it matter if you're on wifi versus 3G when a. the 3G is free and b. in the new Kindle's case supported globally.
I like the 3G since I buy a lot of books when I'm sitting at the airport and I'm not going to pay to use airport wifi on my Kindle just so I can buy some books.

Originally Posted by starman 

6) Editing
7) Annotations

Editing as in changing text on a page isn't possible but making notes and annotations is already possible. All notes, bookmarks, and highlights are synced across your Kindles.

Originally Posted by starman 

8) Touchscreen w/virtual keyboard

Would be very cool since the I don't feel the keyboard is used often enough to take us as much space as it does.

Originally Posted by starman 

So yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of a Nook-sized tablet.

I would give up the brilliant e-ink screen for a Kindle sized iTablet which I'd be able to use PanelFly (comics), watch movies, browse the web, reply to emails, and read books on.

The sixth Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy book isn't available on Amazon's Kindle store so I bought the actual book this weekend and I have been reading it on the subway to and from work. I hate it. The Kindle works brilliantly for one handed reading. I can hold a subway pole with one hand and read my Kindle with the other. Holding a hardcover book, a subway pole, and turning pages is not easy, especially with gloves on.
I know it's not for everyone, but personally, I love my Kindle and can't wait until every book is available as an ebook.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I haven't had the opportunity to hold one, let alone use it, but I imagine for bed reading I'd like it way more than regular books.

The lack of a backlight is a real Pain in the A$$. My wife's Sony 2nd gen barely gets used, and it's useless for PDFs. I use Stanza for iTouch all the time, but I haven't seen anything that would do PDFs on the iPhone/iTouch.

If I could read a journal article on an eBook, in original PDF format, I'd have one this afternoon. Until then, no thanks.

It has to be like my iPod. If I want my content on there, it should be seamless.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by finboy 

The lack of a backlight is a real Pain in the A$$.

Is it harder to read than a book under normal light conditions? Because that'd be probably be a non-factor.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Is it harder to read than a book under normal light conditions? Because that'd be probably be a non-factor.

From what my wife says, yeah, but I don't necessarily agree. BUT there are tons of cheap book lights for books. Some work with ebook readers, it's just a pain.

[rambo47]

I've checked out both the Nook and Kindle 2 extensively. Played with each one for several hours over a 2-week period. While the Nook has some nifty features, the Kindle 2 is still better IMHO. Remember, the Nook is a Rev.1 device and needs some updating. Glitchy software and noticeably slower page turning than the Kindle 2. That color touch screen on the Nook is a novelty, but it eats battery power and doesn't offer the convenience over the Kindle's nav system that I expected. Cool factor: High. Actual usefulness: Not so revolutionary.

The Nook has WiFi, which is something the Kindle definitely should include in a future model. With the Nook you can walk into any Barnes & Noble, it gets recognized right away, and you can browse any book in the store for free. Read the whole darn thing if you like. PLus you get info on specials, coupons, etc, all automatically. That branding with a brick-and-mortar store is a great idea. I'd like to see Amazon add that to the Kindle - some kind of co-branding with a physical store. The Borders/Sony ereader looks like a fail so maybe Borders would hook up with Amazon's Kindle. I don't know if Amazon would want to do that, but it would be a spiffing partnership if you asked me (which you didn't). I also like the concept of sharing books with other Nook users you're linked to. I don't know any other ebook reader users so it's a moot point for me, but the whole linking/sharing concept is one that could grow to be quite significant.

The Kindle has better battery life. 14 days vs 10 days for the Nook (both with WiFi/3G turned off).

I was surprised at how usable the Kindle's keyboard is. I thought the iPhone-esque virtual keypad on the Nook would be the bees knees, but it's not. It falls WAY short of the usability of the iPhone's on-screen keypad and I found I really didn't like it at all. The fact that it disappears when not needed is cool. The Kindle's physical keypad is always there, but it's not at all as intrusive as I'd feared. I actually like it.

One thing that really impressed me with my Kindle was the out-of-box experience. I unpacked it, turned it on, and it automatically registered and linked up with my existing Amazon.com account. Maybe it came from Amazon pre-activated. I don't know. What I do know is that about 4 minutes after breaking the seal on the package I had bought a book and downloaded several free ones. I didn't have to confiture a thing! Plus I got a personalized letter from Jeff Bezos, right on my Kindle.

When they iron out some of the kinks with the Nook I'll take another look. Maybe I'll switch if I'm not too heavily invested in the Kindle stuff, but I doubt it. It was the Nook that got me all revved up about ereaders in the first place, but researching all the different products convinced me that the Kindle was the one to get, at least right now. The fact that I'm always reading several books at once makes me the perfect candidate for this medium. I've always been an old-fashioned paper book kind of buy. But now, no more lugging 2 or 3 books to the beach - just my Kindle and all the books I want inside (up to the 1500 books it can store).

The discounts on ebooks vs. physical books is cool, but honestly it's not about that. I bought my Kindle for the convenience. The fact that its a geek-chic technology didn't hurt either. I'd have to buy 50 or 60 books before the discount payed for the device. The fact that my library becomes purely electronic might be a minus for some folks, but for me the lack of physical books is a plus. I've got too many books in my house already. And I can always read my ebooks on my computer if the Kindle dies. And if I find a book I really must have in physical form, hell - I'll just buy the paper version. But cutting down on the constant influx of new physical books every month is a huge win for me. And getting some titles days before the paper version comes out it another huge win.

My hope is that in the future the ebook reader world agrees on some standard formats and the DRM on these ebooks goes the way of DRM on music. Maybe paying a little more for a no-DRM version like iTunes offers with music will happen at some point. That, coupled with a universal format like ePub, would make these things more viable to the general public.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by paul w 

So your choices are still, pay more for a hard copy in a bookstore, pay less but have the books in two days, or pay the same as the book delivered in two days but have it immediately, wherever you may be (digitally). People pay for convenience, duh.

I see the choices like this:

Buy the book on Kindle or buy the used book for less than Kindle and sell the used book when I'm done with it. I paid less for the book up front and I got some money for it when I was done with it. You can't argue that buying books for Kindle is cheaper than buying real books. It simply isn't.

This is even more true if you're like me and only read non-fiction, which is more expensive than fiction.

[PB2K]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I thought MacBook was a dumb name, but it's grown on me.

i agree, and i never liked "ilife" or "iwork" either

[rambo47]

I understand that "PowerBook" was a reference to the PowerPC ship that powered it, but I always liked that name and feel they should have kept it. 'Power' could have referred to what a powerful tool it was and, IMHO, could have worked even with the Intel processor. Same with PowerMac vs. MacPro. No cachet to the new name.

[slugslugslug]

The PowerBook name predates the PowerPC chip by quite some time.

[Jawbone54]

None of this is going to matter after January 26.

[rambo47]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

None of this is going to matter after January 26.

Another announcement, another gadget to buy. Lets hope they price it better than they did for the MacBook Air.

[ort888]

Hey, I guess I had mentioned and even posted a pic of my baby after all. I had completely forgotten.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by rambo47 

Another announcement, another gadget to buy. Lets hope they price it better than they did for the MacBook Air.

If it's over $600, I call it stupid.