Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Gator Lager · 01:16 AM

2 billion degrees kelvin, 20 million amps. WOW
oreocookie should like this one.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060313.html

also click on archives for tons more pic's

olePigeon · Mar 14, 2006, 01:10 AM

I read about that.

Awesome!

CharlesS · Mar 14, 2006, 01:12 AM

Did you mean to link to this page instead?

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060313.html

The Z Machine! Reminds me of old Infocom games.

Gator Lager · Mar 14, 2006, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Did you mean to link to this page instead?

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060313.html

The Z Machine! Reminds me of old Infocom games.

yep.thanks and corrected.
they added another pic. check the archives.

OreoCookie · Mar 14, 2006, 07:41 AM

Yeah, you're definitely right, I do like this

Thanks for the link to the page!

Kevin · Mar 14, 2006, 08:12 AM

Hey I saw those things at Spencers Gifts long ago.

His Dudeness · Mar 14, 2006, 12:34 PM

I had gas this morning that was almost that hot.

turbopants · Mar 14, 2006, 12:45 PM

That's one amazing looking machine.

wdlove · Mar 14, 2006, 12:48 PM

Wow, that is really cool.

sek929 · Mar 14, 2006, 01:48 PM

"That's hot"

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2006, 02:32 PM

How do they measure temparatures that high ?
My guess is that it is just calculated or estimated.

-t

brapper · Mar 14, 2006, 02:36 PM

Man. That's ridiculous. Had someone asked me if it was possible to contain that much heat I would've thought no...
That's not saying much, however.

Rumor · Mar 14, 2006, 03:27 PM

I've been wondering why my power bill went up.

OreoCookie · Mar 14, 2006, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

How do they measure temparatures that high ?
My guess is that it is just calculated or estimated.

It is.

In high-temperature experiments, the temperature may be measured via blackbody radiation for example.
I'll try to give an explanation in laymen's terms:

First of all, a black body is not what many of you have in mind, it's a body which absorbs all incoming radiation. You want to see (a fairly good approximation of) a black body: take two slices of bread and put them in your toaster. The red glowing wires are your black body. (After the experiment, you can make yourself a peanut butter sandwich or something.) Initially, when there is still some liquid in the toast, the red will not be as bright and the color a bit different than later on when it is glowing much brighter.

You will see similar effects when you are bbqing with charcoal: the hotter the coal, the `whiter' the light (white is not a color, but a composite of colors). Actually it will turn more bluish, but the human eye cannot make a distinction anymore.

The essential idea here is that the color which has the highest intensity can be associated with a temperature. (More generally, you will measure the color spectrum, i. e. you measure the intensity at a specific wavelength of light.)

The same happens in high-temperature experiments: UV cameras record the spectrum and the temperature can be inferred from the peak in the spectrum.

There are other methods which may be used for a specific type of experiment.

turtle777 · Mar 14, 2006, 06:13 PM

Thanks, Oreo

But according to this way of measuring, since this is the first time ever measured such high temps, is it possible that the infered temperature was wrong ?
After all, they don't have a reference for this, right ? And is it guaranteed that the way of correlating (extrapolating) emission of light to temperature is correct at that high temps ?

-t

Fothb · Mar 14, 2006, 07:03 PM

I read an online news article about this, and they seemed to casually mention that at one point they were getting out more energy than they were putting in. It was like, "yeah, yeah, we've solved all of the world's energy problems, but let's instead talk about how hot this thing gets, ain't it cool!?" I'm guessing that this side effect of getting energy back out is either minimal or un-harness-able (heh) or else there'd be some more excitement about that angle than what I've seen so far.

andreas_g4 · Mar 14, 2006, 08:18 PM

na ah! This is sooo Photoshopped. It could be even Virtual PC running… wait?

sek929 · Mar 14, 2006, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fothb

I read an online news article about this, and they seemed to casually mention that at one point they were getting out more energy than they were putting in. It was like, "yeah, yeah, we've solved all of the world's energy problems, but let's instead talk about how hot this thing gets, ain't it cool!?" I'm guessing that this side effect of getting energy back out is either minimal or un-harness-able (heh) or else there'd be some more excitement about that angle than what I've seen so far.

Yeah, the whole "harnessing the immense power" thing is still on the drawing boards. But impressive nonetheless.

Velocity211 · Mar 14, 2006, 09:56 PM

I saw that pic in a Guinness world records book.

Gator Lager · Mar 15, 2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by andreas_g4

na ah! This is sooo Photoshopped. It could be even Virtual PC running… wait?

http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/ne...-z-output.html

far200 · Mar 15, 2006, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by sek929

"That's hot"

Not really hot but if you get her in the sack it's a free night in a hotel....

OreoCookie · Mar 15, 2006, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Thanks, Oreo

But according to this way of measuring, since this is the first time ever measured such high temps, is it possible that the infered temperature was wrong ?
After all, they don't have a reference for this, right ? And is it guaranteed that the way of correlating (extrapolating) emission of light to temperature is correct at that high temps?

Yes and no.
Although you don't have a reference, the formulas have been tested time and again and the physical reasoning behind them is sound. Which means that deviation from this law implies new physical effects.

The other thing is that temperature measurement is basically an energy measurement. You can connect the kinetic energy of a particle with the temperature, they are even proportional. So if you can measure the kinetic energy by any means, you can calculate the temperature. This works for arbitrary temperatures.

Also, I'm not sure what method they have used to measure the temperature here. In plasma physics, you can measure the speed like cops measure speeds: the Doppler effect. They use a laser and take a look at the light that gets backscattered: there will be a slight shift in frequency depending on the motion of the electrons (similar to the radar waves or the sirene on an ambulance). From that, the velocity, and thus the kinetic energy can be calculated. Which again is proportional to the temperature.

On the experiment's page, the setup link was broken, so I cannot explain what method they were using. However, I've sent an e-mail, asking them about it. If I get a reply, I'll `translate' the techno babble for you and post it

turtle777 · Mar 15, 2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

However, I've sent an e-mail, asking them about it. If I get a reply, I'll `translate' the techno babble for you and post it

Thanks, Oreo.

-t

OreoCookie · Mar 16, 2006, 01:00 PM

I have received the reply by some guys from the lab.

So the method they use is a combination of the two methods I had described earlier.

The first thing is that atoms which are in a certain state emit photons (light) at very distinct frequencies. You have probably seen line spectra for hydrogen or mercury. Since the ions move, you will see some Doppler shift in the frequency similar to what I had described before. Just imagine an ambulance passing by, the frequency of the horn will change as it passes: when it is closing, the frequency will slightly increase and after it has passed, the horn's frequency will slightly decrease.

It is the same with these lines in the atomic spectra, they are `the horn' if you wish. From the amount the frequency has shifted, you can deduce the velocity. And hence energy and temperature. It is important to keep in mind that there are two temperatures here: the ionic temperature and the electronic temperature, because electrons and ions do not move at the same speed and do not have the same kinetic energy. And since temperature is proportional to the energy, their energies differ.

Was that understandable?