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Charlottesville, Nazis, Antifa, Confederate Statues, and Tea Cozies (Page 8)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 21, 2017, 12:11 AM
 
Got a short haircut? Well, you may get stabbed for it, if you're in the wrong place.



http://nypost.com/2017/08/19/man-sta...or-a-neo-nazi/
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Aug 21, 2017 at 09:18 AM. )
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BadKosh
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Aug 21, 2017, 07:20 AM
 
A squirt gun filled with some thinned down Dave's insanity Sauce is a nice bit of protection. Remember to wear gloves. A bit in the eyes is all it takes.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 21, 2017, 09:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Let me be as clear as possible about AntiFa.

I stand behind people who want to protest the extreme right.
I stand behind people who arm themselves at protests as defense against the extreme right... even if their desire is to provoke the extreme right to give in to their violent tendencies in a ploy to kick the shit out of them.
I even stand by kicking the shit out of someone on the extreme right without direct provocation if the person makes no attempt to escape the legal consequences of their actions. Sometimes people need to get hit, but society isn't broken for not providing legal accommodation.

What I have a problem with are the violent actors who are none of these. Their label is irrelevant.
It isn't though because it skews the numbers involved. There will be people who you stand behind as above who don't believe anything they hear from RW media about Antifa or simply take the name literally and see them as a good thing. These people are likely to label themselves as Antifa.
The RW agenda is to overstate the misbehaviour by and/or adjacent to the left. Some people just enjoy chaos and will turn up alongside the majority crowd to stir up shit and actually start riots. These people will be gleefully labelled Antifa by the RW media. They are free to label whoever they like because as a non-organisation, there is no-one to denounce any persons or activities attributed to the label. As a consequence, the problem looks much bigger than it is and folks like CTP end up thinking that what is in reality only a handful of violent left wing extremists are a bigger threat than the several million white supremacists choosing your POTUS.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
As for Hillary, I can't be skeptical about an argument without understanding it first, and for this to happen I am required to take it seriously.

That, and taking an argument seriously is kinda sorta basic courtesy in a discussion.

Those are my goals here, to understand, and have discussion, i.e. back-and-forth. If my only desire is to state an unyielding claim, other people aren't required.
Are you never skeptical about the source of the argument? Most of the stuff worth giving real thought was reported by the LW media as is typically the case (when you're capable of genuine objectivity). Theres a slant on it for sure, but its rare they ignore or deny things altogether. This is not the case with Fox and co. Cue our right-leaners to moan about the LW media is the worst thing ever in a strikingly similar situation to that where a few rioters look worse than millions of Nazis as mentioned above. Its a neat trick if you have a base that lets you do it. Moreno when the middle ground gets sucked in too.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
As for Hillary, she was such a ****up, even after three decades of trying to do nothing other than work her way up to president, she lost to Donald Trump.

Who didn't even want to win.

Yes, my dislike is particularly strong.
Being a failure is one thing. Your dislike ran much earlier than that. I still feel like most of the 'evidence' against her came from sources that spent so much time saying things about her, and making stuff up about her that even when they hit something worth worrying about you could fully justify ignoring it. I remain surprised that you didn't is all. On other subjects I wouldn't have really questioned it but the campaign against Hillary began immediately after someone first suggested she might fancy being POTUS after Bill was elected. It was calculated and it ultimately paid off.
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Aug 21, 2017, 03:32 PM
 
If I had interest in inflating the numbers, why would I define my issue so narrowly? Change the label to whatever, so they can be upbraided for making it worse.
     
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Aug 21, 2017, 04:32 PM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 21, 2017, 05:41 PM
 
Black conservative brutally assaulted by Antifa over buying a book. The man was walking out with the book in a bag, which was torn open and searched as he was leaving. Finding out what it was (presumably something written by someone they don't like), one of them threw the book on the sidewalk and kicked it into the street. Immediately after, another terrorist sucker-punches the victim and jumps on top of him, beating him into unconsciousness.



Yeah, they're real heroes.
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Waragainstsleep
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Aug 21, 2017, 08:05 PM
 
Antifa are occupying way too much of your headspace. Much like SJWs and feminists before them. Meanwhile the millions of Trump-voting Nazis aren't worth worrying about at all. Your priorities are a mess.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
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Aug 21, 2017, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Antifa are occupying way too much of your headspace. Much like SJWs and feminists before them. Meanwhile the millions of Trump-voting Nazis aren't worth worrying about at all. Your priorities are a mess.
Agreed. You're obsessing, CTP. We could sit here and look for ugly videos, stories, articles, statements, etc. about all sorts of extremist groups, but I'm not sure what would be gained. What interests you about whatever it is you are doing?
( Last edited by besson3c; Aug 21, 2017 at 08:39 PM. )
     
Chongo
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Aug 21, 2017, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Antifa are occupying way too much of your headspace. Much like SJWs and feminists before them. Meanwhile the millions of Trump-voting Nazis aren't worth worrying about at all. Your priorities are a mess.
Who has been showing up at college campuses and shutting down speakers? Who does he Chancellor of Berkeley need and escape hatch from? It's not from right wing groups.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 21, 2017, 11:24 PM
 
"millions of Trump-voting Nazis"? He outright lies about it, too. You catch that? There's maybe 10,000 white nationalists in the USA, at most, while there are at least 120k Antifa (and 5x that many who are associated) who are far more likely to get violent, and are currently terrorizing cities throughout the USA.

Antifa are today's Nazis; they're identitarian socialists, hell-bent on forcing their beliefs onto others, by any means necessary. It's no wonder I permanently placed WAS on my ignore list, I recommend doing the same.
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subego
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Aug 22, 2017, 01:17 AM
 
10K white supremacists, or 10K white nationalists?

I'd say there are far more than 10K white nationalists.
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 01:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Who has been showing up at college campuses and shutting down speakers?
You are not answering the question: How do you know how widespread the problem is and whether it is overblown? You can't really judge solely on news report, that'd be like judging the frequency of fires talking to firefighters about their work life (fires everywhere and all the time!!).
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Aug 22, 2017, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"millions of Trump-voting Nazis"? He outright lies about it, too. You catch that? There's maybe 10,000 white nationalists in the USA, at most, while there are at least 120k Antifa (and 5x that many who are associated) who are far more likely to get violent, and are currently terrorizing cities throughout the USA.

Antifa are today's Nazis; they're identitarian socialists, hell-bent on forcing their beliefs onto others, by any means necessary. It's no wonder I permanently placed WAS on my ignore list, I recommend doing the same.
Do you have anything to back up ANY of those numbers? From a reputable news source if possible?
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 05:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
10K white supremacists, or 10K white nationalists?

I'd say there are far more than 10K white nationalists.
Yup. The claim that 10-15 % of all white supremacists congregated in Charlottesville is very hard to believe, and I don't see any evidence that CPT bases this on any particular source. Estimates are that there KKK members alone make up 5,000–8,000 people, and there are many more (e. g. the American Nazi Party or the Aryan Brotherhood). Add to that the problem of defining where to draw the line (in particular what Alt Right means, are you talking about Richard Spencer-Alt Right or Breitbart-Alt Right, and would you include the latter in the tally?). Then there are certain militias which might meet that criterion. But 10,000 in a country of 305,000,000, that seems veeeeery unrealistic.

His claims on the antifa on the other hand seem inflated (“and 5x that many who are associated”), especially since “the” antifa doesn't exist as an organization and anarchists are not that big on building big organizations either. Plus, many anarchist and antifascists are peaceful. In any case, it is a weak comparison.
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Aug 22, 2017, 05:35 AM
 
I keep saying it: Antifa is a brand name and its being applied by the right way more often than its being self proclaimed by anyone.

Also, there was a study saying that a third of Trump voters were white supremacists. 60m voted for him. That study can be way OTT and there are still millions of them. I quoted it somewhere.
Another one found that over 70% of Trump fans were ok with him not condemning the fascists.

CTP is making things up to suit his agenda as usual.
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Aug 22, 2017, 06:50 AM
 
So tell us more about the study YOU have offered up saying 1/3 of Trump voters were WS. Here's a suggestion: go to the US justice Dept or FBI and get some numbers.
     
besson3c
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Aug 22, 2017, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"millions of Trump-voting Nazis"? He outright lies about it, too. You catch that? There's maybe 10,000 white nationalists in the USA, at most, while there are at least 120k Antifa (and 5x that many who are associated) who are far more likely to get violent, and are currently terrorizing cities throughout the USA.

How do you know they are far more likely to get violent?
     
besson3c
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Aug 22, 2017, 08:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So tell us more about the study YOU have offered up saying 1/3 of Trump voters were WS. Here's a suggestion: go to the US justice Dept or FBI and get some numbers.

But don't go to the US government for climate change data?
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 09:21 AM
 
Yeah, the DOJ and FBI could be inflating the numbers.
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Aug 22, 2017, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Yeah, the DOJ and FBI could be inflating the numbers.
Distrust is distrust. I'm trying to understand this seemingly inconsistent distrust of government.
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 10:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Distrust is distrust. I'm trying to understand this seemingly inconsistent distrust of government.
Do you trust the US Geological Survey when it acknowledges that the eruption of Mt Pinatubo lowered global temperatures 1.5F for several years?
( Last edited by Chongo; Aug 22, 2017 at 11:54 AM. )
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Aug 22, 2017, 11:03 AM
 
Those numbers were compiled during Obamas term so good point about not trusting them.
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Also, there was a study saying that a third of Trump voters were white supremacists. 60m voted for him. That study can be way OTT and there are still millions of them. I quoted it somewhere.

Another one found that over 70% of Trump fans were ok with him not condemning the fascists.
I'd be curious to look over those studies.
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Aug 22, 2017, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Do you trust the US Geological Survey when it acknowledges that the eruption of Mt Pinatubo lowered global temperatures 1.5F for several years?

That was not an open invitation for you to share your scientific analysis with us.
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 01:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Those numbers were compiled during Obamas term so good point about not trusting them.

Okay, so under democratic leadership all government studies are partisan and not to be trusted, and under republican leadership all data except for climate change data should be trusted?

Is this right?
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
I'm still amazed over supposed liberals defending Antifa, even to the point of deliberately trying to shield them from just angry comments. How many times do people on the Right need to disavow WS and WN groups? It's about time you disavowed the bad actors on the Left a few times, as well.
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:20 PM
 
when will they start taking down all the Democrat Senator Byrd stuff? You know, the KKK Senator.
     
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:29 PM
 
When will the "Six Flags" parks become "Five Flags"
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Yup. The claim that 10-15 % of all white supremacists congregated in Charlottesville is very hard to believe, and I don't see any evidence that CPT bases this on any particular source. Estimates are that there KKK members alone make up 5,000–8,000 people, and there are many more (e. g. the American Nazi Party or the Aryan Brotherhood).
You don't know how this works, I guess. Well, kudos to you. Unfortunately, however, I do know how it works, having dealt with the shitty people involved is this ****ed up nonsense. The same people belong to many, many different WN groups, the overlap is pretty close to 100%. They don't just stop at one and say, "Well guys, I'd your join the nazis, but I'm already part of the KKK and that's enough hate for me, thanks for the invite though, xoxo", or "the Grand Cyclops would get mad if I also joined the AB, he's soooo jealous that way". That's not how this works, it's not how any of this works.

Oh, and the SPLC is pitiful, they try to lump in all the alt-Right (which is a large number) with WN/WS, despite the fact that would make people like Tommy Sotomayor WNs, defying all forms of common sense. I suppose they think this is a common sight?


(The above was part of a Youtube skit, not real life.)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
when will they start taking down all the Democrat Senator Byrd stuff? You know, the KKK Senator.
WT... The man apologized enough. He admitted his failures of character, 100s of times, and that's good enough for me.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
10K white supremacists, or 10K white nationalists?

I'd say there are far more than 10K white nationalists.
You could, but I've seen nothing but partisan nonsense that claims otherwise. The campaign to lump all of the alt-Right (and even alt-lite and hardline conservatives) with the WNs has been extremely successful and greatly influenced public perception.
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Aug 22, 2017, 02:59 PM
 
Any chance Sir Charles still has his analyst job?
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Aug 22, 2017, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You could, but I've seen nothing but partisan nonsense that claims otherwise. The campaign to lump all of the alt-Right (and even alt-lite and hardline conservatives) with the WNs has been extremely successful and greatly influenced public perception.
Goebbels would be proud.
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Aug 22, 2017, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You don't know how this works, I guess. Well, kudos to you.
Well, I do know how this works: you need to provide clear evidence if you make such a claim, otherwise people think you are just making stuff up.
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Aug 22, 2017, 09:37 PM
 
Now it's getting stupid.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 23, 2017, 03:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Well, I do know how this works: you need to provide clear evidence if you make such a claim, otherwise people think you are just making stuff up.
No you don't. In fact, I can't believe I need to explain that extremists usually belong to many different extremist groups.
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Aug 23, 2017, 04:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No you don't. In fact, I can't believe I need to explain that extremists usually belong to many different extremist groups.
There is no need to be condescending. Your point is patently obvious and was never in dispute — as is the fact that many organizations don't have official members, you are a member if you feel associated to that cause. Nevertheless, you made a very specific estimate and appealing to “personal experience” with right-wing extremists doesn't lend any credence to the numbers that you mentioned. So what source did you get your estimates from?
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Aug 23, 2017, 05:06 AM
 
The estimated numbers for each group ranges from 5-10k, and knowing the amount of heavy overlap in membership, I'm very comfortable stating it's about 10k WNs.
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Aug 23, 2017, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Okay, so under democratic leadership all government studies are partisan and not to be trusted, and under republican leadership all data except for climate change data should be trusted?

Is this right?
You still don't have any kind of sense of humor do you?
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
WT... The man apologized enough. He admitted his failures of character, 100s of times, and that's good enough for me.
Any everyone who fought on either side of the Civil War is dead. All we have left is the history to learn from, until the leftist assholes want to remove the statues before they start to re-write history to suit the narrative.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 08:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
There is no need to be condescending. Your point is patently obvious and was never in dispute
I don't know about that. The Judean Peoples Front were not fond of The Peoples Front of Judea.
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Aug 23, 2017, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Any everyone who fought on either side of the Civil War is dead. All we have left is the history to learn from, until the leftist assholes want to remove the statues before they start to re-write history to suit the narrative.
Is desecrating a cemetery next? The way things are going, there will be a call to dig up the CSA soldiers buried at Arlington and tear down the memorial.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Exp...erate-Memorial


Confederate Memorial
The history of Arlington National Cemetery is steeped in the Civil War, for it was this great national struggle that necessitated the establishment of this cemetery to bury its many dead. For many years following the war, the bitter feelings between North and South remained, and although hundreds of Confederate soldiers were buried at Arlington, it was considered a Union cemetery. Family members of Confederate soldiers were denied permission to decorate their loved ones' graves and in extreme cases were even denied entrance to the cemetery.

These ill feelings were slow to die but over time they did begin to fade. Many historians believe it was the national call to arms during the Spanish-American War that brought northerners and southerners together at last. In that war numerous Confederate veterans volunteered their services and joined their Northern brothers on the battlefield in the common defense of our nation. In June 1900, in this spirit of national reconciliation, the U.S. Congress authorized that a section of Arlington National Cemetery be set aside for the burial of Confederate dead.

By the end of 1901 all the Confederate soldiers buried in the national cemeteries at Alexandria, Virginia, and at the Soldiers' Home in Washington were brought together with the soldiers buried at Arlington and reinterred in the Confederate section. Among the 482 persons buried there are 46 officers, 351 enlisted men, 58 wives, 15 southern civilians, and 12 unknowns. They are buried in concentric circles around the Confederate Monument, and their graves are marked with headstones that are distinct for their pointed tops. Legend attributes these pointed-top tombstones to a Confederate belief that the points would "keep Yankees from sitting on them."

To further honor these citizens of the South, the United Daughters of the Confederacy petitioned to erect a major monument to the Confederate dead. On March 4, 1906 Secretary of War William Howard Taft granted their request. The cornerstone was laid on Nov. 12, 1912 at a ceremony featuring speakers William Jennings Bryan and James A. Tanner, a former Union corporal who lost both legs at the second Battle of Bull Run. He was commander in chief of the Union veterans group, The Grand Army of the Republic. That same evening, President William Howard Taft addressed the United Daughters of the Confederacy at a reception in the Daughters of the American Revolution's Centennial Hall.

Chosen to design the memorial was the world-renowned sculptor, Moses Ezekiel. Ezekiel brought more than just his artistic talents to this project for he was also a Confederate veteran who knew firsthand the horrors of the Civil War. He is now buried at the base of the famous monument which he created.

The Confederate Monument was unveiled before a large crowd of northerners and southerners on June 4, 1914, the 106th anniversary of the birthday of the president of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis. President Woodrow Wilson delivered an address and veterans of both the Union and Confederacy placed wreaths on the graves of their former foes, symbolizing the reconciliation between the North and South, the memorial's central theme.
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Aug 23, 2017, 12:27 PM
 
Battlefields, cemeteries, and museums are the only places confederate signs and statues belong. No, we do not need to desecrate graves.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 23, 2017, 12:37 PM
 
I heard a lot of these confederate monuments were put up during Jim Crow laws and just after the turn of the century as reactionary protests against equal rights or desegregation etc. Instead of being solid bronze one-offs they are basically cheap, hollow and mass produced hence when they come down, they crumple like cardboard. Some group of rich, white, racist women used to pay for them in small towns that couldn't afford one.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
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Aug 23, 2017, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Battlefields, cemeteries, and museums are the only places confederate signs and statues belong. No, we do not need to desecrate graves.

I don't think this issue is about statues anyway.

It's about a war against political correctness, and everything that seems like it might remotely being that being lumped into this category without really thinking about what certain statues might actually mean to people other than themselves. More empathy deprived douchiness.

If somebody wanted to take down a statue of, say, Dr. Seuss or some bribe like that nobody on the right could care at all.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 23, 2017, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Battlefields, cemeteries, and museums are the only places confederate signs and statues belong. No, we do not need to desecrate graves.
Good luck w/ that, the idiots protest when those things are moved to museums too. They want them destroyed, period.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Jawbone54
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Aug 23, 2017, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't think this issue is about statues anyway.

It's about a war against political correctness, and everything that seems like it might remotely being that being lumped into this category without really thinking about what certain statues might actually mean to people other than themselves. More empathy deprived douchiness.
One POC certainly does not speak for all others, but...https://youtu.be/_M9vnv5qIFQ

I can't tell someone what to be (or not be) offended by, but I feel like we have the right to ask the honest question, "Where does it stop?" IMHO, the Confederate statues probably need to go. But now we have statues of Lincoln and Washington being defaced. Several years ago, we had the big debate around whether or not the statue of the Ten Commandments should be in front of a courthouse.

At what point does all history need to be edited into perfection? When does someone call out JFK for his philandering and objectification of women, resulting in the removal of his inaugural address from further public viewing?

Why can't some of these statues be a reminder of how far we've come in the past 60 years? Perhaps the only response to that would be an insistence that we haven't come very far at all in regards to racial equality, which (again, IMHO) requires an element of willful ignorance.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Good luck w/ that, the idiots protest when those things are moved to museums too. They want them destroyed, period.
Yep. I understand putting old artifacts out of the public eye, but actually destroying history instead of displaying and explaining it just brings us closer to these guys:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...myra/96822822/

The comparison is far from perfect, but historical items — even ugly or painful ones — have value.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 23, 2017, 03:13 PM
 
Reminds me of the fools who wanted to bulldoze Auschwitz. Hell no, it needs to stand as a reminder forever. Can you imagine how many creeps would crawl out of the woodwork claiming it never existed, within 50 years of it being destroyed? Hell, even with it around today we have morons walking around who claim it was all a hoax... and you can still visit the massive network of ovens and smell the stench of burnt human flesh. Blotting out history doesn't change it, it guarantees we'll repeat it.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Aug 23, 2017, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
One POC certainly does not speak for all others, but...https://youtu.be/_M9vnv5qIFQ

I can't tell someone what to be (or not be) offended by, but I feel like we have the right to ask the honest question, "Where does it stop?" IMHO, the Confederate statues probably need to go. But now we have statues of Lincoln and Washington being defaced. Several years ago, we had the big debate around whether or not the statue of the Ten Commandments should be in front of a courthouse.

At what point does all history need to be edited into perfection? When does someone call out JFK for his philandering and objectification of women, resulting in the removal of his inaugural address from further public viewing?

Why can't some of these statues be a reminder of how far we've come in the past 60 years? Perhaps the only response to that would be an insistence that we haven't come very far at all in regards to racial equality, which (again, IMHO) requires an element of willful ignorance.

I feel like discussions about Lincoln and Washington are mostly counter-productive, and likewise for CTP's general obsessions.

They are symptoms of ongoing strife and unsettled long-standing tensions. The way you solve these, IMO, is by doing something about police brutality, acknowledge the fact that it being a black person poses more challenges than being a white person, and have some serious and in-depth conversations about race rather than just trying to skirt things under the carpet. This can be in the form of general empathy, or actual policy changes, but I think that many affected minorities feel these sorts of issues are being virtually ignored.

If you address these issues, these conflicts are de-escalated, and we probably won't be having the discussion about Washington and Lincoln.

As far as the confederate stuff, these leaders were all about slavery and segregation. Their legacy and focus in life was to further these causes, unlike Washington's. We are never going to settle all of these sorts of issues, but we definitely aren't going to settle them if you pick apart at the symptoms rather than delving into the root causes.

This is what I don't understand about CTP's obsessions. Emotional people do crazy things, this is not a surprise nor a new thing. Perhaps it's kind of his fascination with putting people into boxes, but we all understand that all bets are off when people are emotional and crazy and unpredictable booze can go down.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 23, 2017, 03:49 PM
 
"Why do you talk about Antifa so much?! You're obsessed!"

Because the Left won't talk about them at all. Hell, I'm still waiting for the vast majority of you to even disavow them, in the first place.

No, addressing these people doesn't "de-escalate these issues", bowing down to an outraged mob fixes nothing, because those same people will always be able to find other things to be outraged over (and we'll never be able to suit them regarding anything in the first place). They're professional victims, constantly casting blame on others for their issues. Antifa does it with anyone to the Right of them, BLM does it with white people, white supremacists blame anyone who isn't white, etc. etc.. If you're blaming an entire race or class of people for all your life's woes, thinking they're what's holding you down, you're wrong. It's really that damned simple.

"I feel like discussions about Lincoln and Washington are mostly counter-productive"

Well, I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you. Maybe if ignorant protesters weren't already defacing their statues, and taking sledgehammers to them in an attempt to destroy them, we wouldn't be talking about it? Duh?
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Aug 23, 2017 at 04:46 PM. )
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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