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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Tiger iChat AV - No Better Time to Let Windows In

Tiger iChat AV - No Better Time to Let Windows In
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crystalthunder
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:58 PM
 
After seeing the new iChat AV capabilities today, I am beginning to fall to my knees before the almighty Apple to pray for a Windows version of the program. I love my Mac to death, but that doesn't mean everyone else I know has one. It would be an absolute dream to be able to use the new multi-user functions with all my friends, even if just the audio. I can pray for AIM to pick up the pace, but we all know that isn't happening anytime soon. Does anybody else think the same thing as me?
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Synotic
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:19 PM
 
Originally posted by crystalthunder:
After seeing the new iChat AV capabilities today, I am beginning to fall to my knees before the almighty Apple to pray for a Windows version of the program. I love my Mac to death, but that doesn't mean everyone else I know has one. It would be an absolute dream to be able to use the new multi-user functions with all my friends, even if just the audio. I can pray for AIM to pick up the pace, but we all know that isn't happening anytime soon. Does anybody else think the same thing as me?
How would Apple benefit from spending time and money on rewriting iChat for Windows?
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:18 PM
 
If all the cool apps get ported to Windows...nobody's gonna want a Mac.

I'm sorry but there's nothing I'd hate more than to see key apps moved to Windows.

I'm already bitter iTunes is available to all those goody two shoes. I suppose it's ok because it was a plan to sell more iPods, get QuickTime on those PCs, and sell music to a vastly bigger market. But iChat? Sure, it might sell iSights...but probably not at least not as much as iPods sell now. And does it really have a chance of topple MSN Messenger bundled on every PC? Probably not.
     
krove
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:20 PM
 
The thing is, Apple has used standards to drive iChat's AV capabilities (namely SIP à la VoIP), so any developer should be able to hook into those standards and connect with iChat. AOL finally did it (although a poor job of it), and no one else has stepped up to the plate.

MSN, Yahoo, etc use proprietary technologies. It's time they realized the benefits of interoperability.

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kcmac
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Jun 28, 2004, 09:43 PM
 
I think I saw that Apple's stock price went up to $42 today. Straight Apple cooking isn't all that is behind this.

iTunes, X-Serve, iPod, etc., are cross platform things that are making a splash with the media and the street. They are getting people to finally look at the overall Apple landscape of offerings.

While I agree that Apple should be very selective in what they cross over with, iChat could be interesting. But probably not nearly as earth shattering (profitable) as iTunes.
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 09:47 PM
 
Originally posted by krove:
MSN, Yahoo, etc use proprietary technologies. It's time they realized the benefits of interoperability.
They wanted to interoperate, but AOL didn't let them. You can't lock them out and than complain that they are proprietary.
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crystalthunder  (op)
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Jun 29, 2004, 01:54 AM
 
Apple would benefit because it would open up a new world for its current user base (IE Praise from its users). I agree with KCMac, while there are many products Apple should not port, iChat is one of the few, if not the only one left that should. In order for iChat to be a success, it needs users, just like iTunes. Granted the Mac market for AV is pretty big, that doesn't include most friends of the average consumer.

I hate seeing iTunes on PCs as much as the next Mac user, but in order for iChat AV to be useful we need a bigger user base. I doubt AV will be ported, but it's just a dream! Calling all Windows developers, we got a hot product just waiting to be developed
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Graymalkin
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:54 AM
 
There's no reason for Apple to port iChat over to Windows. The whole point of iChat was to provide a good first party IM client for OSX. Despite its problems MSN Messenger for Windows is a decent IM app and works well with their Passport system. AOL has a very robust client in the form of AIM that is widely used in the US. Yahoo's messenger has lower usage but is pretty well supported.

OSX lacked for a long time a decent client of its own. MSN Messenger for OSX is a half-assed IM client. It supports only a tiny fraction of the features of the Windows version. The official AIM client of OSX even still is a pretty crappy bit of software. The only decent clients for OSX besides iChat are the open source and shareware ones. Unfortunately they've got an innate disadvantage in that they always have to be playing catch-up when one of the IM networks changes their protocols.

Porting iChat and its capabilities to Windows would just be one less reason for people to buy Macs. With iChat and a Firewire camera you can have some really awesome video chats with people, Tiger's iChat will be able to do conferencing. If this is a requisite feature for you you're probably going to look into buying a Mac. If Apple ports iChat to Windows then there's no longer an incentive to switch to a Mac. The "ease of use example" argument doesn't work. Having iTunes on Windows lets Windows users keep using Windows but use their iPods and iTMS. It isn't inspiring them to switch to a Mac. Apple's primary goal with all of the features they pack into their apps is to sell Macs. Porting their best software to Windows doesn't help them sell Macs.
     
crystalthunder  (op)
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:00 AM
 
I'll buy your argument...for now

I guess my only complaint is that I can't use this incredibly awesome technology with everyone I know, which is sortof disappointing, you know? That's what I am getting at here.
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OwlBoy
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Jun 29, 2004, 03:32 AM
 
Yeah, it would be nice if they kicked AOL in the ass to get these features in AIM on windows.

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jb8748
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Jun 29, 2004, 05:16 AM
 
When I saw this on Apple's developer site, Technical Note: Using the 3D Audio Mixer, I wondered about a conferencing element to iChat. I think it would make audio conferences so much easier to follow if people sounded like they were sitting in different areas of the room.

Anyone know if they have actually done this? You obviously can't tell from screen shots!

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Gee4orce
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Jun 29, 2004, 08:49 AM
 
Don't forget that Apple doesn't give iChatAV away - you have to buy it. So, making a windows version would benefit Apple by:

1) creating a broader userbase
2) selling iChatAV software
3) selling iSight cameras (an independant review of firewire webcams just rated the iSight way above everything else - they wondered how Apple were able to sell it so cheaply).

Now, whether or not even paying Windows customers should be allowed to get their mitts on iChat is another matter alltogether. At the moment, I'm sick of telling people how great iChat is and getting blank looks in return.

As for missing features - well, I want an IM app to do the following:
1) text chat
2) voice chat
3) video chat
4) file transfer
5) view buddy list
6) set my availability

beyond that, 'features' become 'bloat'. You can stick your animated buddy icons and whoop-de-do sound effects where it hurts.
     
Grrr
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Jun 29, 2004, 01:38 PM
 
Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Don't forget that Apple doesn't give iChatAV away - you have to buy it.
Erm.. Yes they do give it away, or rather, bundle it with 10.3. It's only 10.2 users that are required to buy it.
Having said that, I agree, a pay for PC version could work. But then when there are so many free PC messengers, and so many video chat options on PC, I doubt if many PC users could be encouraged to buy it..
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Eug Wanker
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Jun 29, 2004, 02:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Synotic:
How would Apple benefit from spending time and money on rewriting iChat for Windows?
Well, for one, there's the iSight. Not to mention they could charge for iChat.
     
teszeract
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Jun 29, 2004, 04:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Gee4orce:

2) selling iChatAV software


People & companies Do buy software, y'know. Out of the somewhat larger installed PC base, perhaps they may sell enough to cover costs... you think maybe? I've noticed that there are a few companies that sell software when free options are available. Like Eudora for example.
     
Graymalkin
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Jun 29, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
Even selling iChat would be a bad business descision. On Windows iChat would have to compete not only with the free and fully functional IM apps from the networks but also the big third party apps like Trillian. The iSight would also need to have proper WDM drivers written and maintained which would just be more work on Apple's part. Having to support the iSight and iChat on Windows would easily consume a huge portion of the money made selling the two. Besides it is hard enough for Apple to sell iSights to Mac users when other Firewire cameras are cheaper and in some cases much better.
     
itai195
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Jun 29, 2004, 06:58 PM
 
I can't see many Windows users buying iChat. For consumers, it doesn't really offer an value. For businesses, Apple would need to add a whole ton of enterprise-grade features that they don't currently support.
     
crystalthunder  (op)
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Jun 29, 2004, 07:25 PM
 
After reading everyone's responses I think the best option at this point is to hope a developer picks up on this amazing technology that is along the lines of the freeware IM apps out there like Trillian. But if AOL has locked out MSN and Yahoo, I can only imagine how hard it would be to get a different Windows developer.
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Synotic
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Jun 29, 2004, 07:33 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well, for one, there's the iSight. Not to mention they could charge for iChat.
Do you think Apple could make up the money it would take to maintain an iChat for Windows in iSight/iChat sales? Honest question.

I hadn't considered that iChat AV wasn't technically free software. And no they're not "giving it away" because it's included with Panther. Just as Panther isn't given away when you buy a new computer. You are buying iChat when you buy Panther. I could definitely see people buying iChat AV to video chat with family members. If you want to chat with a good friend or with your kids, the one-time cost $30-$50 bucks for iChat AV and a web cam (not necessarily an iSight) is worth it. However, like I mentioned earlier, I don't think Apple could profitably maintain an iChat for Windows. Apple doesn't care about "praise from its users" unfortunately, but it makes perfect sense. Porting iChat to Windows would only hurt them. But they've done crazier things, so who knows?
     
Buck_W
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Jul 20, 2004, 01:40 PM
 
Please forgive me if this has already been covered a zillion times in these forums (I couldn't find it after doing a search). Is there a way we Mac users can audio conference with PC users? My daughter is going to be going to school in the fall and we are THRILLED that we are going to be able to video conference with iChat (we're Mac users). But my daughter is interested in being able to audio chat with her friends who have PC's if it is possible.
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crystalthunder  (op)
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Jul 20, 2004, 01:43 PM
 
Sorry, for PCs to Mac its only video. AIM uses a different type of audio conferencing standard, so they aren't compatible.
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rytc
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Jul 20, 2004, 05:57 PM
 
Originally posted by Buck_W:
Please forgive me if this has already been covered a zillion times in these forums (I couldn't find it after doing a search). Is there a way we Mac users can audio conference with PC users? My daughter is going to be going to school in the fall and we are THRILLED that we are going to be able to video conference with iChat (we're Mac users). But my daughter is interested in being able to audio chat with her friends who have PC's if it is possible.
There are several other PC to Mac voice chatting apps, have a search around using Google, can't remeber their names off the top of my head but they do exist.
     
Fonzie
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Jul 20, 2004, 06:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Buck_W:
Please forgive me if this has already been covered a zillion times in these forums (I couldn't find it after doing a search). Is there a way we Mac users can audio conference with PC users? My daughter is going to be going to school in the fall and we are THRILLED that we are going to be able to video conference with iChat (we're Mac users). But my daughter is interested in being able to audio chat with her friends who have PC's if it is possible.
I believe she can audiochat with her friends if they use the latest AOL klient. That would mean that she has to convince her friends to get an AIM account. Kinda hard. Even though it's free.
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Graymalkin
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Jul 20, 2004, 10:22 PM
 
AIM 5.5 is video and audio compatible with iChat AV 2.1. As long as your daughter's friends download the latest version of AIM they'll be able to chat with her with no problems. They'll also be able to video chat with each other.

Besides using AIM, Yahoo!'s IM app supports video and audio chats between YIM users. OhPhoneX is a fairly capable app for OSX that is compatible with Microsoft's NetMeeting. It uses the same libraries as GnomeMeeting on Linux.
     
   
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