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TubaMuffins · Nov 10, 2005, 12:35 AM

anyone ever own one, or at least drive one? I'm seriously thinking about buying one. I have a test drive this monday, I'm super excited. Any owner's have anything they can tell me to look out for when i go back to the dealership?

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 12:36 AM

They have a chrysler engine. They're supposedly fun to drive and whatnot, but they aren't the most reliable car out there. I suggest if you're in the market for something like that you also test drive the competition, the RSX, SE-R, SRT4, Focus SVT, Civic Si, etc.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 12:39 AM

Read this:

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/featur...1scc_under20gs

And this:

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0302scc_neon

Goldfinger · Nov 10, 2005, 06:22 AM

Meh, they were cool when they first came out, now they're all over the place. You almost trip over them when you walk down the street, same goes for Cayennes and Touaregs (but those 2 never were cool, ever).

Too bad you can't buy a Clio RS over there.

Athens · Nov 10, 2005, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins

anyone ever own one, or at least drive one? I'm seriously thinking about buying one. I have a test drive this monday, I'm super excited. Any owner's have anything they can tell me to look out for when i go back to the dealership?

Very sporty feel in the drive

angelmb · Nov 10, 2005, 06:28 AM

My apologies if you find this out of place, but I would like to let the guys in the States that like cars (like Rob) to know about an exceptional car, the Renault Clio Trophy, that is no longer in production, a pity, the new Clio III took his place.

From a UK magazine I can not recall… maybe autocar.

Trick race dampers transform the Clio.

And this week's new Renault Clio variant is the 182 Trophy. It seems like only last week that we had the 182 Cup, the basic 182 came a couple of months back and if memory serves, the 172 Cup wasn’t that long before.

As Britain is the largest market in the world for Renaultsport products, Renault UK was keen to give its little car a decent send-off before the new version arrives next year. But whereas the process could have been another exercise in squeezing a little more power from the 1998cc, 182bhp four-cylinder engine and altering the visuals, they’ve done something that sounds unexceptional, but which in practice results in a car so complete in its role as the ultimate supermini-warrior that everyone should get a drive in one. And the nature of the modification? They’ve put some expensive dampers on it.

Doesn’t sound like much, but it turns what was already a car capable of shaming much more expensive machinery over most roads into something otherworldly. I have never driven a car like it.

In conjunction with Sachs Race Engineering, Renault has fitted the Clio with what are effectively race dampers. They have a remote reservoir holding nearly half of the oil and gas that fills them, and which allows a thicker and stiffer damper rod to be used. The front suspension is 10mm lower than on the Cup and with uprated front hubs and a set of Speedline rims that save 1.3kg per corner, this amounts to a large investment on a car that will only be sold in the UK and Switzerland. We get 500 units, the Swiss just 25. Each damper is roughly 10 times more expensive than the equivalent item fitted to a basic Cup car, and the list price is £15,500. Handling genius has never been so affordable.

Lowered and stiffened are not words you would normally associate with improved handling on UK roads, but the Clio Trophy is a car with so much damping sophistication that it achieves the impossible. It rolls less than the Cup, has less suspension travel at the front, and yet it rides fully 30 per cent better than that car. To drive it fast over virtually disintegrating asphalt and feel just how well controlled each wheel is for bump and rebound is eye-opening.

The upshot is a car of unrivalled cross-country pace and enjoyment in this class. Grip is stronger than you’d ever believe possible of a 205/45 WR16 Michelin Exalto 2, and the engineers admit that, had there been time, they’d have fitted a cup tyre. The only problem now is the powertrain: with the ability to carry so much speed, suddenly 182bhp doesn’t feel lively enough. That said, it’s identical to the 182 Cup that crucified the opposition in last week’s 0-100-0 contest.

To put the Clio Trophy in perspective, you don’t compare it to other cars in its class – it is so far ahead of even the excellent Ford Fiesta ST that the comparison is unfair. This is one of the great enthusiast’s cars and it demands evaluation alongside cars of similarly focused appeal. Porsche owners will scoff at such a suggestion, but they will modify their opinion after a 20-mile drive trying, and failing, to remove a Clio from their rear-view mirror. What a car. What a bargain.

Another article about the Clio Trophy,

For £15,500 you get a ballsy 182bhp 2.0-litre engine, a tuned chassis and some very trick suspension. It’ll crack 60mph in a shade under seven seconds and not stop until it reaches 140mph. No wonder we said the Trophy would put all other rivals on the back foot when we first tested it July

A Renault-sponsored track day for Renaultsport owners around Brands Hatch in a torrential deluge.
Nervous? Me? I needn’t have worried. Whereas the Clio V6s were sliding around at all sorts of unnatural angles and the Megane Trophies were spinning away their turbocharged power, the Clio Trophy was easily the quickest, sticking tenaciously to the racing line, its Michelin Exalto 2 tyres delivering masses of confidence-inspiring grip. It was a lesson in just how important chassis balance, communicative steering and body control is, rather than simple outright power. By the time I left the circuit, the Trophy had me seduced.

The Trophy’s all-alloy 16valve engine is a stormer – it revs with a deep-lunged and breathy urgency and always feels pent-up and ready to deliver massive doses of power. There’s a distinct step in the powerband. Below 4500rpm the Clio is very brisk. Above it, the Clio is just manic, the engine hurtling to its 6500rpm power peak in a frenzy of acceleration.

On the slightest sniff of throttle, the Trophy surges forward at any revs and in any gear. It’ll pull with enthusiasm in top from 20pmh and in third gear at 70mph it rockets ahead, instantly turning tailgaiting traffic into dawdling rear-view mirror specs.

But it’s the ride that truly impresses. The Clio doesn’t crash or thump or fidget - it bobbles. That’s the best word to describe the suspension’s firm but compliant movements over bumps and intrusions.

The Trophy is a real giant-killer, a hot hatch in the truest sense of the term. It’s terrifically fast, and has the composure and ability to handle as much speed as you dare wring from it. And here’s the best news – a colleague was so taken with the Clio that he visited his local Renault dealer and they offered him a spanker for £13,500. I’m so tempted...

Once a Porsche Turbo owner told me: "Driving out of a motorway, my Porsche Turbo can't follow my Clio RS Trophy..."

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 06:35 AM

Yeah, I owned one for two years. Change cars a couple of months ago as I needed something bigger. Wish I could have kept the Cooper S. Unreal car. Feel free to ask whatever you want.

bells0 · 07:14 AM

Can't do with chavved up clio's/saxo's etc with crap 'racing' exhausts driving round with their fog lights on and constantly trying to race me

Mini's tend not to be included in this "i'm faster dan anytin cos i is got a 1.4 leeter wid twin pipes mota" - so get a lot more respect from me

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by bells0

Can't do with chavved up clio's/saxo's etc with crap 'racing' exhausts driving round with their fog lights on and constantly trying to race me

Those guys are fun! I love it when they pull up beside my Merc Estate. and I blow them away. Hehe, 350 bhp...

What car do you have, bells0?

Troll · Nov 10, 2005, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

They have a chrysler engine. They're supposedly fun to drive and whatnot, but they aren't the most reliable car out there. I suggest if you're in the market for something like that you also test drive the competition, the RSX, SE-R, SRT4, Focus SVT, Civic Si, etc.

Quality-wise, the Mini is in a different league to a Neon or a Ford or even an Acura. I personally don't think you can compare BMW quality with the cars you suggest are competition.

From a quality perspective, the competition for the Mini would be the Audi A3, the BMW 1 Series or perhaps the Golf. Apart from the A3, the other cars are way more boring to drive and look at than the Mini. I'd say go for it. Cool car.

Goldfinger · Nov 10, 2005, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

snip[/img]

Like I said: too bad you can't get the Clio RS.

EVO did a test of the Clio RS vs. the BMW M6. On a track the M6 could barely pull away from the Clio RS, most of the time the RS was as fast or faster.

bells0 · Nov 10, 2005, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by jebjeb

Those guys are fun! I love it when they pull up beside my Merc Estate. and I blow them away. Hehe, 350 bhp...

What car do you have, bells0?

Got a 350Z which although a bit lardy, shifts! Bit of a handful now it's approaching winter, but that still won't stop me turning my esp off

AMG's rule, did a Merc track day, fell in love with the noise of their engines!

Goldfinger · Nov 10, 2005, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Troll

Quality-wise, the Mini is in a different league to a Neon or a Ford or even an Acura. I personally don't think you can compare BMW quality with the cars you suggest are competition.

From a quality perspective, the competition for the Mini would be the Audi A3, the BMW 1 Series or perhaps the Golf. Apart from the A3, the other cars are way more boring to drive and look at than the Mini. I'd say go for it. Cool car.

A 1-series isn't boring to drive, far from it.. It's ugly as sin but it isn't boring. The Golf...meh it's a volkswagen enough said. Same goes for the Audi, hopeless machines Audis.

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by bells0

Got a 350Z which although a bit lardy, shifts! Bit of a handful now it's approaching winter, but that still won't stop me turning my esp off

AMG's rule, did a Merc track day, fell in love with the noise of their engines!

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked with it. It has made me a bit lairy though!

bells0 · Nov 10, 2005, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

A 1-series isn't boring to drive, far from it.. It's ugly as sin but it isn't boring. The Golf...meh it's a volkswagen enough said. Same goes for the Audi, hopeless machines Audis.

Agree Goldfinger, think any car that is rear wheel drive is much more invloving and fun to drive than a front wheeler. 1 series is god awful to look at and way too expensive in the Uk, they are bringing out an M series for £30k!!

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by bells0

Agree Goldfinger, think any car that is rear wheel drive is much more invloving and fun to drive than a front wheeler. 1 series is god awful to look at and way too expensive in the Uk, they are bringing out an M series for £30k!!

Have you seen the Alpina (I think it was them) version with the previos M5's 5L 400 bhp V8 cramed into it?! Hilarous. £75,000 though...

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by jebjeb

Have you seen the Alpina (I think it was them) version with the previos M5's 5L 400 bhp V8 cramed into it?! Hilarous. £75,000 though...

Sounds like something the nutters at Hartge would do, not Alpina.

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Sounds like something the nutters at Hartge would do, not Alpina.

Dead right. Just the guys I was trying to think of. Well done ol' chap.

acadian · Nov 10, 2005, 08:43 AM

Currently drive an 05 Cooper S. Great car, unbeatable feel, lots of fun.....

Troll · Nov 10, 2005, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

A 1-series isn't boring to drive, far from it.. It's ugly as sin but it isn't boring. The Golf...meh it's a volkswagen enough said. Same goes for the Audi, hopeless machines Audis.

I agree fully on the looks of the 1 Series. And the build quality isn't worth the price. Open the cubby hole (glovebox) in a 1 Series and you'll know what I'm talking about. Held on with a piece of string! In comparison to a Mini, I think the 1 series is boring to drive. The Mini Cooper S is like a cart. You can really throw it around. That said, I've only driven the entry level 1 Series. Maybe with 100km more, it would become interesting.

The Golf is meh, I agree 100% but I'm not with you on the A3. The A3 is a great car especially the quattro. It's more grown up than the Mini and sportier than the Beemer. Handles like a dream and it's extremely well built. If I had to put them in order, it'd be Alfa Brera, Audi A3, Mini Cooper, VW Golf, Clio, BMW 1 Series (because it's ugly not because of its performance), Focus, Neon, Acura. But that's just me!

Goldfinger · Nov 10, 2005, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Troll

The Golf is meh, I agree 100% but I'm not with you on the A3. The A3 is a great car especially the quattro. It's more grown up than the Mini and sportier than the Beemer. Handles like a dream and it's extremely well built. If I had to put them in order, it'd be Alfa Brera, Audi A3, Mini Cooper, VW Golf, Clio, BMW 1 Series (because it's ugly not because of its performance), Focus, Neon, Acura. But that's just me!

I have a serious bias against Audi that's all

. We've owned 2 Audi's (V8 and 2.5 TDI) and they both were crap so never ever an Audi again for me. And they look too boring IMHO. But I'm pretty sure they are pretty good machines (except for the horrible suspension, it's just too damn uncomfortable. And all Audi's suffer from this) but I have a hard time admitting that

It's a bit like admitting that Windows 2000 isn't that bad..it's still Windows.

I must agree on the Brera, looks like a beast. Would immediately order one if I had the money. 3.2 Q4.

Athens · Nov 10, 2005, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

They have a chrysler engine. They're supposedly fun to drive and whatnot, but they aren't the most reliable car out there. I suggest if you're in the market for something like that you also test drive the competition, the RSX, SE-R, SRT4, Focus SVT, Civic Si, etc.

I def recommend the RSX and the Civic SI, I wouldn't touch the Focus with a 100 foot poll same with a neon.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 10:38 AM

You also think that constantly downshifting to slow down isn't bad for your car, and you can't spell 'brakes' correctly.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 10:44 AM

I wouldn't touch a Focus either.

I bought a Focus for the old dear. It's crap.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 10:47 AM

SVTs aren't bad.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by acadian

Currently drive an 05 Cooper S. Great car, unbeatable feel, lots of fun.....

In terms of unbeatable feel, .... eh... there are quite a few cars that can outhandle it. My wife kinda wants a mini, and honestly in a few years I might get one, but not the S version. I think it's kinda 'wrong'. Forced induction? Lots of options? Power everything? BLECH! ITS A MINI! It should be fairly spartan and VERY LIGHT WEIGHT. If we do get one I'm going to put it on a diet, which should improve all aspects of performance.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

In terms of unbeatable feel, .... eh... there are quite a few cars that can outhandle it.

None of them being FWD. The MINI is just about the best FWD handler there is.

(BTW, the best MINI is the Cooper S Works, according to an EVO group test of about fourteen different types).

analogika · Nov 10, 2005, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

My wife kinda wants a mini, and honestly in a few years I might get one, but not the S version. I think it's kinda 'wrong'. Forced induction? Lots of options? Power everything? BLECH! ITS A MINI!

No, it's not.

Anybody who feigns any sort of "purist" ethic with regard to the new "Mini" is just full of ****, IMNSHO.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

None of them being FWD. The MINI is just about the best FWD handler there is.

(BTW, the best MINI is the Cooper S Works, according to an EVO group test of about fourteen different types).

See, that's funny because a 1st generation neon can pull higher skidpad numbers than a mini. STOCK.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

No, it's not.

Anybody who feigns any sort of "purist" ethic with regard to the new "Mini" is just full of ****, IMNSHO.

I just don't see why you'd want to get a 'small' car and then weigh it down with so many options it iends up weighing as much as a midsize car.

Mastrap · Nov 10, 2005, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

No, it's not.

Anybody who feigns any sort of "purist" ethic with regard to the new "Mini" is just full of ****, IMNSHO.

True that. I used to drive a 'proper' Mini Cooper some years back. Now, that was fun. The best thing ever for London traffic.

nerd · Nov 10, 2005, 11:04 AM

My girlfriend and I each have Ss and love them. Outright fun car, no question about it. My only complaint is I can't fit much of the Home Depot things in the car like I could with I had an Escape. Check out http://mini2.com and http://northamericanmotoring.com to see what those guys are saying.

Brad

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

True that. I used to drive a 'proper' Mini Cooper some years back. Now, that was fun. The best thing ever for London traffic.

I like them better, but with some many idiots in america driving expeditions the original minis are deathtraps if you ever got into an accident.

analogika · Nov 10, 2005, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

I just don't see why you'd want to get a 'small' car and then weigh it down with so many options it iends up weighing as much as a midsize car.

Point being, the new "mini" is twice the size of a real one, to begin with.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

See, that's funny because a 1st generation neon can pull higher skidpad numbers than a mini. STOCK.

Handling, not roadholding.

Really, you need to stop talking about things like these until you understand the difference because you're just embarrassing yourself.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Point being, the new "mini" is twice the size of a real one, to begin with.

I know this. But I don't know why that means you'd want to make it weigh like 5X as much as the old one. It should be as light as possible to try to capture SOME of the spirit of the original.

angelmb · Nov 10, 2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by bells0

"i'm faster dan anytin cos i is got a 1.4 leeter wid twin pipes mota"

Yeah, I understand, tunning is IMHO a matter of bad taste. But this Clio Trophy is not about getting a tunner look which I freaking hate, it is about perfomance, superb perfomance being easy to drive.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Point being, the MINI is twice the size of a Mini, to begin with.

Correctinated.

Mini = classic vehicle designed by nutcase, wins Monte Carlo rally, drives around Italian cities on heists.

MINI = modern vehicle designed by BMW, discussed here.

Important to note the difference. Two completely different vehicles. Two completely different ways of presenting their names (modern vehicle is always full uppercase).

vanwyklr · Nov 10, 2005, 11:39 AM

I have had a 2005 cooper s for a year now . I haven't had any problems with it and love driving it. It will be in the shop for the first time this month to get it's inspection and oil change. Most fun car I have ever driven and don't plan to drive anything else after it. like the way using a mac makes me happy about my computer work driving a mini makes me happy about going wherever I have to go.

analogika · Nov 10, 2005, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the correction, Doofy. I'll try to pay more attention in the future.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 12:13 PM

I think what I find funny is that small cars have been a blast to drive for a while now, many of them exceeding the MINI's performance... but they didn't have build quality, so people ignored htem. So BMW makes a small car with actualNICE fit and finish, and POOF we have a bunch of people stating how 'fun' the mini is to drive. It's a cool car, but it isn't exactly light years ahead of other small cars in terms of handling or enjoyable driving experiences.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Yeah, I understand, tunning is IMHO a matter of bad taste.

What if it's subtle?

vanwyklr · Nov 10, 2005, 12:23 PM

well the mini not unlike the mac is about style not just how fast it is or how great the handling is. us drivers love it because of the way it is. so maybe it isn't the most "fun" but hey we have fun driving it. maybe other small cars are fun too but I don't need or want other small cars.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 12:34 PM

Cool. Is English a 2nd language for you? Just curious.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Thanks for the correction, Doofy. I'll try to pay more attention in the future.

No problem.

Doofy · Nov 10, 2005, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

I think what I find funny is that small cars have been a blast to drive for a while now, many of them exceeding the MINI's performance... but they didn't have build quality, so people ignored htem. So BMW makes a small car with actualNICE fit and finish, and POOF we have a bunch of people stating how 'fun' the mini is to drive. It's a cool car, but it isn't exactly light years ahead of other small cars in terms of handling or enjoyable driving experiences.

Get a clue. The MINI is a fun*, decently-handling, enjoyable* car. Period.

(* Not as much fun or as enjoyable as an SUV though, obviously)

jebjeb · Nov 10, 2005, 12:50 PM

Yes, there are many small cars that are great to drive but the Mini (I know it should be capitalised but eh...) is not just good because BMW made it well. Us owners (or ex-owners in my case) do not just think it is a hoot to drive because it is effectively a BMW.

Others have bought up other great small cars (such AngelMB with the hottest Renault Clios) but it depends what you want in a small car.

In my opinion, the Renault's do not have the same quality and semi luxury as the Mini. I have driven a Cup and think that at 10/10ths it is probably the better drivers car but it is the sum of all parts that make the Mini so special. The 1 series, A3 and Golf are bigger cars but if thats something you don't mind then of course you can compare them to the Mini.

Don't be fooled by a hot hatch by the performance of their little brothers. A Golf GTi is much better than a standard Golf. A Civic Type R is much better than a standard Civic. The same goes for the Mini Cooper S but maybe to a lesser extent as the standard Mini does perform (except for power) very well.

I found my Mini to be a great three person car. I'm 6'1 so it ruled out people sitting behind me unless I wanted to drive with the seat jacked up and my knees around the steering wheel. However, a 6 footer can happily sit behind a six footer in the passenger seat. Put down the other sides seat back and you have three adults sitting very comfortably with quite a bit of storage. Of course a bigger car (like the Golf or A3) will have more room but don't write off the Mini as being too tiny.

Tubamuffins - When you test drive it, make sure you can get comfortable. The worst thing for me about the Mini was there was no place to rest my elbows. There is no central arm rest and the door arm rest was nearly non-existand and the top of the door was quite high.

See how it drives with out changing gears heaps. Let it pull from a higher gear. One of things I loved about the Cooper S was the torque. It was always quick in real world driving when you aren't wringing it's neck. To achieve similar pace in a Type R or a Clio, one has to rev the guts out of it.

Depending on how confident you are as well as your ability in a Manual, try some Heal-toe downshifts. The Mini has some lag designed into its engine decelerating response to "aid" in upshifts but it means you need to give it more of a prod to match the revs on the downshift.

Gotta go, more later.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by jebjeb

The Mini has some lag designed into its engine decelerating response to "aid" in upshifts but it means you need to give it more of a prod to match the revs on the downshift.

You mean a fairly heavy flywheel.

acadian · Nov 10, 2005, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

You mean a fairly heavy flywheel.

Still have yet to master the downshift, always forget what rpm per gear to tap the throttle to match rev's.

SuvsareRetarded · Nov 10, 2005, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by acadian

Still have yet to master the downshift, always forget what rpm per gear to tap the throttle to match rev's.

>shrug<

Oh well. I'd say the line and knowing when to brake and when to gas and HOW to apply the gas are more important anyway.