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Something about this bothers me way more than it should
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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Although we didn't get to see what happened beforehand, there's no excuse for that, ever. He needs to be indefinitely suspended w/o pay and brought up on charges, immediately.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
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There are some individuals who simply don't have the temperament to be a police officer. It appears that this is a prime example of that.
OAW
PS: And I'm going to have to disagree with Shaddim a smudge. IMO he should be fired and brought up on charges. I don't care if she had just told him that his mother sucks donkey balls off camera. Which I highly doubt BTW. But even if she mouthed off about something there is simply no excuse for his actions. And for the record, it didn't seem like he intended for her to hit her face. I think he was just pushing her back into the cell and she fell and hit her face accidentally. But dude didn't even attempt to provide any sort of assistance after seeing her injuries. And for that he should lose his badge at a minimum. Period.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Yeah. From what I can gather, it was likely an accident.
Accidents can be forgiven, even this one.
Pretending it wasn't an accident is unforgivable.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by subego
Yeah. From what I can gather, it was likely an accident.
Accidents can be forgiven, even this one.
Pretending it wasn't an accident is unforgivable.
IMO, his intent is irrelevant unless it can be shown that he intended to prevent harm to someone charged in his custody.
When you are an officer of the law with someone in your custody, reckless disregard is the same as intent to harm. That's why we give them guns and trust them to protect us - they are never supposed to act with such disregard for life and limb, intentional or simply negligent.
You want this dude in your neighborhood armed and above reproach? I sure as hell don't.
Anything other then firing this dude and charging him criminally amounts to setting a precedent among the police community - "You can be as rough as you want with people, if something goes south you'll just have a slap on the wrist and the department taxpayer will pay for your misdeeds,"
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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I don't think we're disagreeing.
I'm judging his intent by him not immediately rushing to her aid, as would happen in an actual accident.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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Originally Posted by OAW
There are some individuals who simply don't have the temperament to be a police officer. It appears that this is a prime example of that.
OAW
PS: And I'm going to have to disagree with Shaddim a smudge. IMO he should be fired and brought up on charges. I don't care if she had just told him that his mother sucks donkey balls off camera. Which I highly doubt BTW. But even if she mouthed off about something there is simply no excuse for his actions. And for the record, it didn't seem like he intended for her to hit her face. I think he was just pushing her back into the cell and she fell and hit her face accidentally. But dude didn't even attempt to provide any sort of assistance after seeing her injuries. And for that he should lose his badge at a minimum. Period.
No, it's worse for him if he's charged and convicted as a suspended peace officer, considerably worse.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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For the record, I saw an officer purposely break a man's thumb to stop him from struggling while he was being cuffed. While I can understand frustration, the perp was charged with beating his wife half to death and being in possession of nearly a kilo of heroin, plus the guy was screaming, biting, and kicking during the arrest, there were other (better) ways of handling it. The officer was suspended and is required to attend counseling, but he is being allowed to return back to work.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Addicted to MacNN
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
No, it's worse for him if he's charged and convicted as a suspended peace officer, considerably worse.
Now that's an angle I didn't consider. Consider my "disagreement" rescinded!
OAW
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
For the record, I saw an officer purposely break a man's thumb to stop him from struggling while he was being cuffed. While I can understand frustration, the perp was charged with beating his wife half to death and being in possession of nearly a kilo of heroin, plus the guy was screaming, biting, and kicking during the arrest, there were other (better) ways of handling it. The officer was suspended and is required to attend counseling, but he is being allowed to return back to work.
From a moral standpoint, I don't mind people who deserve it getting roughed up, you just can't have the rules support it.
That said, I've been lightly tapped with a police baton, and if I had the choice between having my thumb broken or getting taken down with a baton (which I presume was an option the cop had) I'd take broken thumb.
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by subego
I don't think we're disagreeing.
I'm judging his intent by him not immediately rushing to her aid, as would happen in an actual accident.
Ah, my bad. I see now
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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Originally Posted by subego
From a moral standpoint, I don't mind people who deserve it getting roughed up, you just can't have the rules support it.
That said, I've been lightly tapped with a police baton, and if I had the choice between having my thumb broken or getting taken down with a baton (which I presume was an option the cop had) I'd take broken thumb.
I was thinking more about our military grade tasers, I've been touched with them a couple times and they'll take the fight right out of you (at least long enough to be cuffed).
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Oh... I'd pick taser over both. No question there, and I've never been tased.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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Originally Posted by subego
Oh... I'd pick taser over both. No question there, and I've never been tased.
All of your muscles go rigid, then you can't move them for 20-30s, it's a much better alternative to broken bones. (Though you may pee your pants, and one perp did let a little bit of poo out.) With tasers, we try to only target the thighs and the buttocks, since those are the larger muscle groups and least likely to cause respiratory or cardiac distress when zapped.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
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My foray into the wrong side of law enforcement included being pushed for standing on a public sidewalk, then arrested for blocking a police cruiser that was driving on said sidewalk by not walking fast enough.
They really didn't like that I was filming this, and removed the video of the incident from a friend of mine's phone while pulling her up from a seated position on a public bench on the water and arresting her for failure to obey an order of the police to not block the sidewalk (which the bench was not on). I was able to toss my phone to a friend that quickly walked away with it, but the film came out tough to parse since it was so close with flashing lights and a lot of yelling by the police, bystanders, and me once I heard a cruiser revving its engine on a sidewalk trying to get me (among 8 of my friends) to move faster down the sidewalk.
It really made me ashamed of my home city. They dropped the charges and no local lawyers wanted to sue the city as they'd quickly lose favor with lucrative lobbyist clients. I decided to move on with my life as I ended up with no charges, no injuries, and two hours at the station.
I have to admit it was fun preparing to represent myself, looking up relevant case law, drawing maps of the incident, and preparing questions for the police (a lawyer would have been 3 times the max cost of the fine, so I figured I'd give it a shot). The prosecutor mysteriously dropped the charges a few days after I got an email from the ACLU asking for a description of the events and a copy of the film we had. We would have gone forward had my friend (who works for a law firm) opted not to provide us with her phone or testimony that the police deleted her film (which is known as a Brady violation - destroying evidence). We coulda subpoenaed it but we didn't want to cause more harm to anyone affected by this, and she was pretty distraught at the idea of being involved with a suit against the city she grew up in, works in, and resides in.
The members of my group attempted to call the state police to at least respond and ensure nobody was hurt by these rampaging idiots, but State wouldn't even send a single cruiser or take any of our claims seriously. I suppose they assumed we were all drunk and while the majority of us were, I and two others were driving and hadn't had a drop.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Re: Tasers
I understand head is extra bad. Skin's to thin and it'll start scorching.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
My foray into the wrong side of law enforcement included being pushed for standing on a public sidewalk, then arrested for blocking a police cruiser that was driving on said sidewalk by not walking fast enough.
They really didn't like that I was filming this, and removed the video of the incident from a friend of mine's phone while pulling her up from a seated position on a public bench on the water and arresting her for failure to obey an order of the police to not block the sidewalk. I was able to toss my phone to a friend that quickly walked away with it, but the film came out tough to parse since it was so close with flashing lights and a lot of yelling by the police, bystanders, and me once I heard a cruiser revving its engine on a sidewalk trying to get me (among 8 of my friends) to move faster down the sidewalk.
It really made me ashamed of my home city. They dropped the charges and no local lawyers wanted to sue the city as they'd quickly lose favor with lucrative lobbyist clients. I decided to move on with my life as I ended up with no charges, no injuries, and two hours at the station.
I have to admit it was fun preparing to represent myself, looking up relevant case law, drawing maps of the incident, and preparing questions for the police (a lawyer would have been 3 times the max cost of the fine, so I figured I'd give it a shot). The prosecutor mysteriously dropped the charges a few days after I got an email from the ACLU asking for a description of the events and a copy of the film we had. We would have gone forward had my friend (who works for a law firm) opted not to provide us with her phone or testimony that the police deleted her film (which is known as a Brady violation). We coulda subpoenaed it but we didn't want to cause more harm to anyone affected by this, and she was pretty distraught at the idea of being involved with a suit against the city.
The members of my group attempted to call the state police to at least respond and ensure nobody was hurt by these rampaging idiots, but State wouldn't even send a single cruiser or take any of our claims seriously. I suppose they assumed we were all drunk and while the majority of us were, I and two others were driving and hadn't had a drop.
This is one of those tough things.
I highly value my rights, so there's a natural inclination to bring them to bear against law enforcement. The problem is most such encounters can be put into two groups.
A) This is a beleaguered person trying to do a difficult job, and you're not helping. The archetypal example is a cop wanting to search your house without a warrant for a fleeing perp. This is a goal you both want to accomplish. Unless you actually have something to hide, refusing doesn't help anyone.
B) This is a mother****er you do not want to mess with, because they know all the ways to get around your rights. In the archetypal example, they come back with a warrant and destructively roll your whole house for no reason.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
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Abuse of authority. Throw the book at him.
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ebuddy
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