[sek929]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Reading the above, you'd think the US were a lawless country. "My choice for home defence is a 12 Ga. pump shotgun"? Really? My choice for home defence is to lock the door at night. And even that we forget to do sometimes.

My dad doesn't lock his doors, own guns, or a dog. Security is a mindset, and I've never felt the need to repel hypothetical attackers.

Some people do, however, and a good guard dog or a shotgun are the best choices. Guns like an AR15 have a much higher chance of going through your walls (and a few other houses) and harming innocent bystanders. They are a hoot to bring to the range though.

Edit: Also, if you want to engage in gun debate there are any number of threads going on in the PWL of that nature. I'd like to do Snow-i a solid and try and keep this thread on track.

[subego]

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Edit: Also, if you want to engage in gun debate there are any number of threads going on in the PWL of that nature. I'd like to do Snow-i a solid and try and keep this thread on track.

Thanks Sek

As I explained, my first line of defense always has and always will be with four legs and a tail. My rifle will be stored in a locked case with a trigger lock on it, tethered to a wall with Mags and Ammo in a separate lockbox. It's primary purpose will be recreational, with home defense being a secondary purpose (one that i hope I'll never have to use it for). There's nothing like a bark from a 100 pound dog to keep the bad guys from wanting to mess with my house.

That said, this discussion is about our experiences purchasing, safekeeping, maintaining, collecting, recreationally firing, and otherwise our general discussions on the subject. There are two active threads on the subject in the PWL, and i'd be happy to discuss with anyone there the merits of legislation.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by rambo47 

Nah. The M1 had more of a kick than an AR-15 for sure, but if you hold it right it's just a lot of fun to shoot. And distances beyond 500 meters are no problem with the venerable M1 Garand. General Patton called it "the greatest battle weapon ever devised."

Firing a Garand is on my bucket list. They are expensive though; One of these days i'll buy one (when I'm old and more financially....inclined)

M-1 GARAND - Post War - Unissued - M1 GARAND : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
$7650!!!

[sek929]

I'd like to shoot an Ak47 next time I go to the range with my buds.

Also, as I said in the other thread, the only gun I actually would love to own would be a nice Winchester Lever-Action.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I'd like to shoot an Ak47 next time I go to the range with my buds.

Also, as I said in the other thread, the only gun I actually would love to own would be a nice Winchester Lever-Action.

My next purchase (in the next year or two) is either going to be a 12gauge or a lever action. I need to find a range that can accommodate my current rifle before thinking about my next one. Do you have a model in mind for the winchester? Admittedly my knowledge of the civilian rifle market is limited to research I've done on my own purchase - I haven't yet looked into the finer points of shotguns and lever actions.

Since I started this thread, ammo prices have seemed to double. When I started the thread, .223/5.56 was going for $.35 to $.55 a round - after the government buy it's up to $.75-$1.10 a round. Hopefully it'll go back down to reasonable once the supply stabilizes. I'm not putting steel cased ammo through my rifle either.

[sek929]

1886 Rifle is what I had in mind. I'm a complete novice with weapons though, I want it more for the coolness aspect. I've always really liked the look of the Winchester lever rifles, but just looking online now a box of 45-70 ammo for it would go for about 60 bucks for 20 rounds...so that ain't cheap to fire.

[ghporter]

The Garand is indeed a lot of fun to shoot. It takes more preparation and some instruction (and of course practice) to manage, but once you're set, it's great. Mine came from the Civilian Marksmanship Program, back when they had plenty of them, and it cost $500 plus shipping. The current price point for a shootable Garand is somewhere around $1,000 to $1,500 because though millions of them were made, they are aging and they are no longer stacked deep in warehouses.

The AK is also a fun rifle to shoot, but it's different. The typical AK has a short stock, sized for European shooters, so it takes some getting used to, and it tends to lift its barrel with each shot. Sek, I doubt anyone in MA has an actual AK47 that they will let you shoot; those are relatively rare in private hands. There are a lot of semi-auto AKs around though. With the silliness of the last several months, an AK that would have sold for $600 in October is now going for $1,000... For a rifle that is built with enough slop to be able to go "bang!" despite being filled with mud, and with an accuracy specification that could read "generally puts holes in the vague direction it is pointed," that's stupid pricing.

Winchester lever guns are pretty much the prototype for all later levers, but there's a reason for that: Browning's design is essentially "the way to do it" for a lever rifle. Later adaptations went from toggle locks to rotating bolts for greater strength, but the innards are pretty much the same. My father-in-law left me his late-model '76 rifle in .30-30; it's light, controllable, and fun to shoot.

Ammunition supplies were kind of tight before the election, for a lot of reasons. In November, a lot of tinfoil types bought up bunches of ammunition "because it will all be banned!!!22!@!!!!!" and that screwed up everything. China's decision to screw up the global metals market by not developing their own resources but instead buying scrap at inflated prices had already made prices pretty stupid, so that just made it worse. And the ammunition makers have wound up with problems in keeping up with demand, not just for complete ammunition but for components too, so even reloaders are running into shortages. Ammunition prices in general should start settling down soon, just as firearm prices have in the last month or two. But like with firearms, the supply from manufacturers will remain behind the curve for a while, perhaps another year.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

Firing a Garand is on my bucket list. They are expensive though; One of these days i'll buy one (when I'm old and more financially....inclined)

M-1 GARAND - Post War - Unissued - M1 GARAND : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
$7650!!!

That's insane. Must be some special story with it or something. CMP M1s are still out there for a lot less. For that money you could buy a few M14s (M1A) with all the match trimmings, or a Barrett or two. We had them around when I was a kid, and a Garand kicks like a mule. Not as bad as an M14 as I recall. I'm not sure why that would be the case.

I've shot several HK 90 or 91 .308s over the years, and although they are heavy and still kick, the problem has always been the butt of the stock.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Originally Posted by finboy 

That's insane. Must be some special story with it or something. CMP M1s are still out there for a lot less. For that money you could buy a few M14s (M1A) with all the match trimmings, or a Barrett or two. We had them around when I was a kid, and a Garand kicks like a mule. Not as bad as an M14 as I recall. I'm not sure why that would be the case.

I've shot several HK 90 or 91 .308s over the years, and although they are heavy and still kick, the problem has always been the butt of the stock.

I believe its the unisued bit, as is it's mint/unused. Probably never been fired. Priced as a collectible.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The typical AK has a short stock, sized for European shooters

I've never heard this before (that its sized for European shooters). Are European stocks smaller than US stocks?

[Snow-i]

Still waiting. I'm entering week 9. Extremely frustrating to say the least, but i can't wait to bring her home and post up some pics.

[sek929]

To tide you over:

My buddy got done making his Mini-14 a "Golden Gun"

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by sek929 

To tide you over:

My buddy got done making his Mini-14 a "Golden Gun"

That's awesome. Which stock is that? Not factory...looks like it might be the strikeforce stock with a paint job?

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by sek929 

To tide you over:
My buddy got done making his Mini-14 a "Golden Gun"

Reminds me of the different camo you can have in Black Ops !!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I've never heard this before (that its sized for European shooters). Are European stocks smaller than US stocks?

When it comes to the AK and the original Eastern European audience it was designed for, yes. We here in the States tend to be both taller and broader, so the "length of pull" of the standard AK stock is relatively short compared to a comparable rifle designed for Western European or American shooters. That the original dimensions worked well for Asian and Middle Eastern shooters was a bonus; the Russians didn't have to change any design details when setting up factories in China or Egypt...

The standard AK stock is about 9.25" from the rear of the receiver to the butt plate, while what is referred to as "NATO length" stocks for the AK are 10.5" in the same measurement. That 1.25" can be significant when you are on the tall side like me.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

That's awesome. Which stock is that? Not factory...looks like it might be the strikeforce stock with a paint job?

"Sparta Archangel stock"

That's just from his description in the photo he posted, I did not cross-check that.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

When it comes to the AK and the original Eastern European audience it was designed for, yes. We here in the States tend to be both taller and broader, so the "length of pull" of the standard AK stock is relatively short compared to a comparable rifle designed for Western European or American shooters. That the original dimensions worked well for Asian and Middle Eastern shooters was a bonus; the Russians didn't have to change any design details when setting up factories in China or Egypt...

The standard AK stock is about 9.25" from the rear of the receiver to the butt plate, while what is referred to as "NATO length" stocks for the AK are 10.5" in the same measurement. That 1.25" can be significant when you are on the tall side like me.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the size differences are due to Eastern European kids at the time growing up on totalitarian food.

[Snow-i]

Finally picked it up today!!!!!!!!!!!

I only had about 20 minutes with it before I had to go spend the day with family from out of town, but my first impressions are that it is extremely well made and well crafted. Nowhere on the entirely of the rifle does there not seem to be an extreme attention to detail. Ruger included a bolt lock with it (which I was pleasantly surprised about) and the tools i would need to disassemble for cleaning. I inspected the chamber, barrel, and bolt for any minor mistakes in craftsmanship and could find none (though I'm hardly an expert eye at this kind of thing). I brought it with me to my father's house to carpool with them where I had to quickly lock it up and put it away without being able to spend any quality time applying what I learned researching to practical application on the gun (how to disassemble, it's complete anatomy, etc).

By the time we came back from the family thing we were all tired and it was late so we left it with his guns in his safe with plans to take it to the range sometime this week. Depending my traveling schedule for work I'm not sure I'll be able to go until the weekend but I'm excited nonetheless. I'm glad to have a chance to spend some time with my old man - I only live a few miles from my parents but with life and everything we don't get to "hang out" like we did when I was young. Now we have an excuse

I'll post pics when I get a chance, but for now i'm dead tired and need to sleep .

[ghporter]

Congrats! I'm looking forward to your range report.