Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2010, 07:53 AM

Flash needs to die as fast a death as possible, so I'm glad Apple is helping to facilitate that.

There are only two things I have found that I can't use my iPad for: 1) connecting to my work VPN and using remote desktop to access our sales system. I am on call after hours, so I'll still have to carry my MBP for that purpose. and 2) video chat. Video chat isn't that big of a deal, though, as I only do it with my fiance while she is at school, and she's done in a month and a half.

Come May I think the iPad will be my primary computer, and I'll only need the MBP for very occasional work use (and also for Steam, when it comes out).

Simon · Apr 5, 2010, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Flash needs to die as fast a death as possible, so I'm glad Apple is helping to facilitate that.

So you would encourage Apple to break Flash on all Macs too?

solofx7 · Apr 5, 2010, 10:08 AM

I hate to admit this, but flash crashes all of the time.
Though i think that part of it is bullying, I commend apple for taking a stand.

turtle777 · Apr 5, 2010, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

So you would encourage Apple to break Flash on all Macs too?

Sure, I need Flash once in a blue moon. And click2flash really made surfing so much better.

-t

voodoo · Apr 5, 2010, 10:28 AM

I used Flash last time three days ago, when watching South Park online at their website. The occasional youtube and other Flash-based video player makes me use Flash, but other than that - I never use Flash.

Click2Flash is a lifesaver and makes online browsing so much nicer!

The Flash, The!

Mrjinglesusa · Apr 5, 2010, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

So you would encourage Apple to break Flash on all Macs too?

No, but I would encourage websites to use OPEN standards for things like video, rather than a buggy, crashprone, and proprietary system like Flash.

Simon · Apr 5, 2010, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Sure, I need Flash once in a blue moon. And click2flash really made surfing so much better.

But you understand there's a difference between letting people chose if they want Flash (ClickToFlash) and deliberately breaking it?

My question was if he'd support Apple breaking Flash on OS X.

Eug · Apr 5, 2010, 10:33 AM

Very nice screen. Much more ergonomic than an iPhone obviously.

Typing is reasonable in portrait mode, much better than an iPhone, but touch typing is almost impossible because it's too cramped. Touch typing is possible in landscape mode, but I couldn't do it reliably because my fingers would inadvertently brush the screen, causing other characters to be typed.

Responsive. iPhoto with Multi-Touch is cool. Didn't spend much time in the iWork apps, but the apps look good. I could see Keynote being used on the road, but maybe not so much by me, since on the road I'd take my MBP anyway..

Video on CNN works. Video on The Globe and Mail does not, which is unfortunate since it's my favourite news site. Ironically, the first video I tried (that didn't work) was their video iPad review.

Screen is just like a MacBook screen in that I wouldn't want to read on it for hours. Too heavy for an ebook reader too. Doesn't matter to me much though, since I still usually prefer real paper for extended reading.

So, it's a nice machine, but it's lack of Flash support is a deal killer for its intended use IMO, at least for now. Perhaps that will change by 2011. Apple likely won't adopt Flash, but maybe more sites will ditch Flash by then. In the meantime the iPad is an interesting start but won't get my $. (BTW, they're not available in Canada until the end of the month anyway.)

Simon · Apr 5, 2010, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

No, but I would encourage websites to use OPEN standards for things like video, rather than a buggy, crashprone, and proprietary system like Flash.

There's a big difference between encouraging websites to do something and forcing users to do something. Breaking Flash on OS X (which was my question) has nothing to do with encouraging and everything to do with forcing.

turtle777 · Apr 5, 2010, 10:38 AM

Ok, Simon, haven't we discussed all this ad nauseam ?

You are the broken record of the digital age.

-t

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2010, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

So you would encourage Apple to break Flash on all Macs too?

I wouldn't advocate removing functionality from current systems, no. But not having it to begin with on new platforms is OK with me.

I have little use for Flash personally. In fact, the only website I want to use on my iPad that doesn't work currently is South Park Studios. But I'll get by without it until they move to HTML5.

Mrjinglesusa · Apr 5, 2010, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

There's a big difference between encouraging websites to do something and forcing users to do something. Breaking Flash on OS X (which was my question) has nothing to do with encouraging and everything to do with forcing.

Apple will not remove support for Flash from OS X. Not gonna happen.

Not supporting it on new hardware/software (e.g., iPhones, iTouch, iPad) is APPLE'S perogative. If Adobe could get their act together and make a mobile Flash version that is stable, fast, and doesn't crash, I bet Apple would reconsider. But I'm not holding my breath - it is Abobe after all.

Back on topic....

Showed off my iPad to some friends and neighbors who came over for Easter dinner last night. Not a technophile/Apple user among them (aside from "normal" iPods). No Macs, no iTouch, no iPhones. EVERY person was very impressed with the iPad. I demonstrated web surfing, typing, email, calender, videos, Netflix, photos, ABC app, etc. I think several of them are seriously contemplating getting one for living room use after getting a little hands on with one.

Comments were along these lines: "That's so easy", "Wow", "Cool", "So I can stream from Netflix? That's awesome", "You mean I can read my Kindle books on this?", "This would be perfect to keep in the living room to check email, look something up, etc.".

That said, one person wanted to show us pictures on Snapfish. Pertinent to the above Flash discussion, Snapfish uses Flash for their pictures.

LOL Had to tell her to ue my Dell laptop for that.

Eug · Apr 5, 2010, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Apple will not remove support for Flash from OS X. Not gonna happen.

Not supporting it on new hardware/software (e.g., iPhones, iTouch, iPad) is APPLE'S perogative. If Adobe could get their act together and make a mobile Flash version that is stable, fast, and doesn't crash, I bet Apple would reconsider.

I doubt it. This is mostly not a technical issue. This is essentially a format war.

It's the same reason Apple doesn't like to use embedded Microsoft products (Silverlight).

Simon · 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, Simon, haven't we discussed all this ad nauseam ?

Umm, it was you who butted into a discussion I was having with jokell82. Your problem if you believe you have to interrupt when I ask him for his opinion.

Simon · Apr 5, 2010, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

I wouldn't advocate removing functionality from current systems, no. But not having it to begin with on new platforms is OK with me.

Fair enough.

Personally, I'd prefer having Flash and something like ClickToFlash that lets me decide which content and which format I chose.

Wiskedjak · Apr 5, 2010, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa

Apple will not remove support for Flash from OS X. Not gonna happen.

I don't think they could remove from OSX, even if they wanted to, without making OSX a pain to develop for. Flash is software like any other that runs on OSX. Software doesn't require Apple's blessing to run in OSX, unlike software in the iPhoneOS.

Simon · Apr 5, 2010, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

I doubt it. This is mostly not a technical issue. This is essentially a format war.

It absolutely is. In the end it's about Apple not wanting to depend on Adobe. That's fine by me. What I disagree with is forcing users on their side rather than giving them a choice. As if Apple didn't trust their own loyal customers to make informed decisions for themselves.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2010, 12:57 PM

Don't discount the fact that flash still relies on mouse over events, which are impossible on the iPhone OS's current version (amongst other potentially fatal UI issues). It's not JUST a political move.

Eug · Apr 5, 2010, 01:20 PM

^^^ iPhone 4.0 this week

Wiskedjak · Apr 5, 2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Don't discount the fact that flash still relies on mouse over events, which are impossible on the iPhone OS's current version (amongst other potentially fatal UI issues). It's not JUST a political move.

Adobe's got a version of Flash developed for the iPhone. Flash works fine on other touch-screen platforms, such as Android. I don't really care about Flash content, but I'd pref it if Apple would let *me* choose rather than making the decision for me.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2010, 03:05 PM

Flash isn't out for Android (and many Android phones won't even be able to run it). And even the new Windows Phone 7 Series phones (**** that name sucks) won't have flash to start either.
Why Most Current Android Phones Will Never Get Flash 10.1 - Android flash - Gizmodo

Did you see the video of someone playing Farmville on a Nexus One? It was painful.

Wiskedjak · Apr 5, 2010, 03:24 PM

hmmm ... perhaps I was thinking of this:
The Flash Blog � Adobe announces Flash Player and AIR for Android

Atheist · Apr 5, 2010, 03:32 PM

It didn't take long for Blendtec to try out the new iPad.

Eug · Apr 5, 2010, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Atheist

It didn't take long for Blendtec to try out the new iPad.

That's not a fair test of the iPad. They had to "prepare" it beforehand, which is something they didn't need to do for the iPhone.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2010, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

That's not a fair test of the iPad. They had to "prepare" it beforehand, which is something they didn't need to do for the iPhone.

Not only did they have to break it first, they also put it in the blender without the metal back case.

But I'm sure if it would fit it would have blended.

-Q- · Apr 5, 2010, 04:17 PM

Got mine Saturday afternoon and have overall been very pleased. The increased screen size has really made a difference in what the app developers can do and in playing with the iWork apps, I can see this replacing my laptop when I travel for meetings/presentations (other than returning emails and doing site assessments, I don't really do any 'heavy lifting' when I'm on the road - iPad seems fine for that so far).

Hard to quantify, but interacting via web sites and applications via touch on a screen that size really does seems to be more...immersive, for lack of a better work. Just feels a like one more "barrier" has been removed in interacting with content. That probably doesn't make any sense.

Some oddities that I've found that I'm not quite sure how I'll work around:

Keynote doesn't appear to support any other fonts (I haven't found a way to get it to do so, anyway) so the custom presentations created for work will be troublesome. Sure, they can be exported as a PDF, but they do lose some of the builds our design team has created, so the charts tend to look a little clutters as they appear all at once, rather than sections at a time as we discuss the points. Going to have to figure that one out.

Can't see the alt text on XKCD.

Its size is making it hard to "cheat" in a meeting and check email, etc. Looks like a phone is still going to be the right form factor to let my attention wander without being obviously rude.

Planning on using the iPad (with keyboard) as my main machine this week at work to see how it fares.

Big Mac · Apr 5, 2010, 04:40 PM

It makes sense that a large touch screen based web would be more immersive than the mouse-based web.

Nearly everyone who has used one really seems to enjoy the experience.

solofx7 · Apr 5, 2010, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

It makes sense that a large touch screen based web would be more immersive than the mouse-based web.

Nearly everyone who has used one really seems to enjoy the experience.

Very true. I did not know how it would go over, but i prefer using my finger to browse.
It's very nice.
I know it's part device, prt os, partly the experience.

ort888 · Apr 5, 2010, 10:28 PM

Used one for 15 minutes today and came away impressed.

ilovemymac · Apr 5, 2010, 11:05 PM

the delivery guy just dropped it off at my doorstep ! cant wait to unbox it !

Eden Aurora · Apr 6, 2010, 07:47 AM

1. Does the iPad support/open PDF's without any additional software? I would think so, but then i saw all these PDF programs for the iPad in iTunes...and it got me wondering.

2. Also, they should make the use of Flash an option. Users would get a huge disclaimers saying that if you turn flash on, it would crash your iPad...but at least give us the option of using it.

I have my 2cents.

turtle777 · Apr 6, 2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Eden Aurora

1. Does the iPad support/open PDF's without any additional software? I would think so, but then i saw all these PDF programs for the iPad in iTunes...and it got me wondering.

Yes, but it lacks many important features, and doesn't open large PDFs well.
Also, you can not easily access PDFs from other sources than Email.
The $ 0.99 for GoodReader is the best money spent ever.

Originally Posted by Eden Aurora

2. Also, they should make the use of Flash an option. Users would get a huge disclaimers saying that if you turn flash on, it would crash your iPad...but at least give us the option of using it.

Uhm, yeah. Feel free to join the countless discussions threads about this.

Originally Posted by Eden Aurora

I have my 2cents.

Spend it to help the economy

-t

Andrew88088 · Apr 6, 2010, 09:17 AM

Why do I always get sucked into the reality distortion field?? I don't really *need* one and I was quite underwhelmed at the announcement of it. But now I'm really curious, so I'm going to go check one out after class. I don't know what to do.. haha

-Q- · Apr 6, 2010, 09:50 AM

I'm not sure, at this early stage, this is a device anyone *needs* per se. I'm currently testing it as a laptop replacement for infrequent travelers at work but my agency doesn't really *need* it.

But boy, once you use one it sure it fun to have.

Andrew88088 · Apr 6, 2010, 10:01 AM

Very true. I suppose I didn't really need my iPhone last summer either.

I think it'd be nice to have around the house, even though I already have a MacBook and iPhone. Sometimes I hate browing while I'm lying down because I hate having the entire laptop on me and sometimes browsing on the phone just doesn't cut it either. Hmm.

Eug · Apr 6, 2010, 10:27 AM

Au contraire. IMO, I needed my iPhone. I had been waiting for it just about forever, just because all of the other stuff out there really didn't suit my needs. Despite the iPhone's limitations, it was still a great big leap above the competition.

I've since played with the iPad and it is tres cool, but I'd actually have to wedge it in between my MacBook Pro and iPhone for usage. It doesn't replace either, but has its own space, but a space that is for the most part adequately covered by the MBP and iPhone combo. Plus, the iPad version 1 is still missing a few features I'd like to have in the context of my usage. So, the "need" for it is much less, in my case at least. It sounds to me you're in a similar situation as me. The iPad would be a cool toy, but not really necessary. It comes down now for you to decide if you want to drop $500+ for an additional toy.

Actually, I considered it. I'm getting a very large tax refund tomorrow.

However, in the end I just said I'll put the extra cash towards my mortgage, and perhaps get an iPad version 2 in 2011 when my favourite sites have all gone HTML 5, and version 1 problems are fixed.

Hodog16 · Apr 6, 2010, 10:58 AM

Pre-ordered the 64 GB wifi that UPS delivered around 10 AM Saturday morning.

Since then I've downloaded $30 worth of applications. Native iPad applications look amazing. Was able to VPN and remote desktop to my Windows XP computer at work without a hitch using the Jump Desktop application.

Really appreciate the larger screen compared to the iPhone/iTouch for browsing, makes it much better.

Typing is actually pretty easy with the larger on-screen keyboard.

I never really used my iphone for browsing at home and now definitely won't. In the few days I've had it, I've used the iPad more than my Macbook for casual surfing such as reading blogs, etc. Definitely would be easier to travel with than a laptop.

Andrew88088 · Apr 6, 2010, 11:07 AM

Well I am typing on one now. I really like it so far. I'm just so indecisive. I suppose I could buy one and return it and swallow the restocking fee if I truly don't have a need for it.

Typing on the keyboard in landscape is a bit odd. I'm sure I could get used to it though.

Eug · Apr 6, 2010, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Andrew88088

Well I am typing on one now. I really like it so far. I'm just so indecisive. I suppose I could buy one and return it and swallow the restocking fee if I truly don't have a need for it.

Nah, just keep it then.

Typing on the keyboard in landscape is a bit odd. I'm sure I could get used to it though.

I find with landscape you can actually touch type with it (sort of). In portrait mode it's too cramped.

Mind you I didn't have hours of testing.

Andrew88088 · Apr 6, 2010, 11:34 AM

I'm really kind of loving it. Typing in portrait isn't too bad with just my thumbs. A little stretching, but not terrible. I think I may be sold. (RDF)

kman42 · Apr 6, 2010, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Andrew88088

I'm really kind of loving it. Typing in portrait isn't too bad with just my thumbs. A little stretching, but not terrible. I think I may be sold. (RDF)

I find thumb-typing in portrait a great way to go when reclined on the couch or in bed.

Andrew88088 · Apr 6, 2010, 01:17 PM

Well, it's official. I did it. I think I'm going to really enjoy it! If not, I have 14 days and a 10% restock... so basically $50 for a two week trial

I doubt I'll end up returning it though.

I'm really, really impressed with some of the native apps so far.

They had just run out of the Apple case.

So I don't have one yet.. I need to research those further, but the Apple one seems nice.

subego · Apr 7, 2010, 02:38 PM

Anyone finding they try to thumb the spacebar in landscape, and keep hitting a letter instead?

Kerrigan · Apr 7, 2010, 02:42 PM

I played around with the iPad for a while, and my impression is that it's the new Segway. You'll look geeky with one in public, it's nowhere near as magical or revolutionary as the hype claimed ("we'll have to rethink cities!"), and frankly it's just not very useful. When the reality distortion wears off, this thing will be the Segway of the 2010s.

turtle777 · Apr 7, 2010, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I played around with the iPad for a while, and my impression is that it's the new Segway. You'll look geeky with one in public, it's nowhere near as magical or revolutionary as the hype claimed ("we'll have to rethink cities!"), and frankly it's just not very useful. When the reality distortion wears off, this thing will be the Segway of the 2010s.

Well, it's more affordable than a Segway.

-t

Eug · Apr 7, 2010, 02:50 PM

Nah. Even I would disagree with that.

The iPad could be great with changes to it and/or changes to the net at large, but at this point it's merely nice in some ways and not as nice in others. OTOH, the Segway is just plain stupid, and causes more problems than it solves IMO.

kman42 · Apr 7, 2010, 02:56 PM

The iPad will be a killer device when Apple fixes file sharing and when a truly compatible Office app is available, e.g. Docs to Go.

If you could access your computers from the device to retrieve documents and actually work with Office docs, the iPad would take off.

The Final Dakar · Apr 7, 2010, 03:09 PM

I suppose we'll see a picture of some douché with a MacBook on his lap while using an iPad while listening to an iPod in the future.

-Q- · Apr 7, 2010, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I suppose we'll see a picture of some douché with a MacBook on his lap while using an iPad while listening to an iPod in the future.

Don't forget holding his iPhone trying to take a picture with his iPad, using something like Camera for iPad

Andrew88088 · Apr 7, 2010, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Anyone finding they try to thumb the spacebar in landscape, and keep hitting a letter instead?

All the time! I seem to hit 'n' a lot.