[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Your PVR and standalone do FAR less and draw less power.

Indeed, and that was my point, in response to this comment:

ANY piece of electronic equipment kept in a closed cabinet will get hot, the PS3 is not exception. I keep my PS3 on an open shelf and have NEVER had the fans turn on.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Your PVR and standalone do FAR less and draw less power.

The way I feel about it is stuff like this justifies why in the end a standalone player is a better option than a game console. Yes, I understand why the PS3 heats up so much, but in the end, having the self described Bluray player of choice unable to run in a cabinet built for AV equipment is really not acceptable.

My parents have a very closed A/V cabinet, and if I told them that their high def player wasn't going to be able to run with their cabinet closed they would laugh. It's reasons like this that standalones matter.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The way I feel about it is stuff like this justifies why in the end a standalone player is a better option than a game console. Yes, I understand why the PS3 heats up so much, but in the end, having the self described Bluray player of choice unable to run in a cabinet built for AV equipment is really not acceptable.

My parents have a very closed A/V cabinet, and if I told them that their high def player wasn't going to be able to run with their cabinet closed they would laugh. It's reasons like this that standalones matter.

Being I need to physically get to my console more than normal AV equipment, I have it in a location that is accessible and not locked up. In saying that, I like all my electronic equipment breathe, so I don't use cabinets and lock them into areas.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Being I need to physically get to my console more than normal AV equipment, I have it in a location that is accessible and not locked up. In saying that, I like all my electronic equipment breathe, so I don't use cabinets and lock them into areas.

A LOT of people do. Currently I don't for my projector, but before I had them slotted in small shelves, and I do have have stuff in cupboards for my other TV.

I personally hate having my components exposed, but the layout of my projector room dictates that I have to have them exposed... until I renovate it.

Thus, having a console in that setup is not a big deal, but for many people the heat from a 360 or PS3 is a major problem.

Even more important is the noise for a lot of people.

[Dakar the Fourth]

On my new entertainment center, I find having a door in front of the 360 may be the most irritating thing. As much as I like trying to muffle the fan noise, I really don't like constantly opening and closing it to access the disc tray, so I just leave it open 90% of the time now.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

On my new entertainment center, I find having a door in front of the 360 may be the most irritating thing. As much as I like trying to muffle the fan noise, I really don't like constantly opening and closing it to access the disc tray, so I just leave it open 90% of the time now.

That is my issue as well. I get tired of opening and closing doors, hence why I don't bother with cabinets any more.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Source?

ps3 profits and loss - Google Search

Sony 4th-quarter loss widens on Playstation 3 costs, but record | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) | Find Articles at BNET.com

Launch costs for the PlayStation 3 were a key factor behind Sony's 67.6 billion yen ($563 million) loss for the January-March quarter, worse than the 66.5 billion yen loss the Japanese electronics and entertainment company reported the same period a year earlier.

Sony profits soar but games division bombs thanks to PS3 - GAMER.BLORGE.com

The games division however (cue understatement of the year) didn’t fare quite so well. The PS3 has directly contributed to a huge loss of $841 million for the Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. subsidiary. This is more than double what the games division lost for its parent company in the same timeframe last year.
...
After taking helm in 2005, Stringer got Sony to drop unprofitable businesses, sell off assets, reduce jobs and shutter plants.

So the PS3 division quarterly loss jumped from $563 million to $841 million. The loss increase, not decrease.

And like every company, Sony drops unprofitable businesses. So if Sony continues losing $800 mil per quarter, it will be in deep sh*t. So you can talk about economies of scale and technological advances all you want.

[icruise]

I never really understood the appeal of having enclosed cabinets. The worst are those cabinets that enclose the whole TV. They seem to be popular with women, who for some reason always want to hide the TV.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

That is my issue as well. I get tired of opening and closing doors, hence why I don't bother with cabinets any more.

I suspect I'll be removing the door at some point. I didn't even bother putting them on both sides.
Well it's not a cabinet so much as an entertainment center.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

ps3 profits and loss - Google Search

Sony 4th-quarter loss widens on Playstation 3 costs, but record | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) | Find Articles at BNET.com



Sony profits soar but games division bombs thanks to PS3 - GAMER.BLORGE.com



So the PS3 division quarterly loss jumped from $563 million to $841 million. The loss increase, not decrease.

And like every company, Sony drops unprofitable businesses. So if Sony continues losing $800 mil per quarter, it will be in deep sh*t. So you can talk about economies of scale and technological advances all you want.

I didn't ask for those sources. I was asking for the source of my quote.

When the PS3 was selling for $599, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

When the PS3 was selling for $399, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm talking about the actual manufacturing cost of the PS3. The new units (40GB and 80GB) have lower manufacturing costs now for sure. Sony has never publicly stated how much it costs to manufacture a PS3. Since you seem to know that, I was asking for that source, I'd be curious to see what the costs are, specifically with their high volume purchase breaks.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

I didn't ask for those sources. I was asking for the source of my quote.

When the PS3 was selling for $599, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

When the PS3 was selling for $399, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

Maybe I should have been more clear. I'm talking about the actual manufacturing cost of the PS3. The new units (40GB and 80GB) have lower manufacturing costs now for sure. Sony has never publicly stated how much it costs to manufacture a PS3. Since you seem to know that, I was asking for that source, I'd be curious to see what the costs are, specifically with their high volume purchase breaks.

Click on the first link in my previous post. It'll take you to a google search of PS3 profits and loss. Lots of information about cost of PS3. Sony is losing more selling it at $399.

SCEA: PS3 price won’t drop for two years... - Ozymandias

Sony wasn't even planning to drop the price of the PS3 until 2008, but it was selling poorly, so they had to. Here's what SCEA's Jack Tretton said:

When asked by US magazine Game Informer whether Sony would cut the price of PS3 as soon as they did after the PS2’s launch, Tretton replied: “No… There’s a heck of a lot more under the hood and it costs us more money to make it.” He added that “it will be a lot more difficult” to reduce the recommended price of PS3.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I never really understood the appeal of having enclosed cabinets. The worst are those cabinets that enclose the whole TV. They seem to be popular with women, who for some reason always want to hide the TV.

I hate 'em too. When I was a kid my mom bought a giant monstrosity that covered an entire wall of our "play" room, and we were only able to fit a 36" TV inside of it. The cabinet is still there and every time I walk into the room I want to smash it with an axe. The room would be so much bigger without it.

I mean it was seriously 10' wide by 9' high. Huge.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I never really understood the appeal of having enclosed cabinets. The worst are those cabinets that enclose the whole TV. They seem to be popular with women, who for some reason always want to hide the TV.

Personally I think TVs are ugly in many living rooms. I specifically had a cabinet custom made to hide my 42" TV. The room has almost a cottage-y feel to it (depending on the furniture), but with the humungous TV in there it totally destroys the feel.





It's about 45" wide IIRC, and about 7' tall. The room looks so much better when the cabinet doors are closed.

P.S. In the bottom cabinet I keep all my instruction manuals and remotes and other junk, as well as a separate receiver and speaker distribution panel that sends audio to various speakers around the house.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Yeah, I suppose if you're doing old fashioned stuff that might be true. My plasma has only enhanced the feel of my living room.

[hyteckit]

No ugly cabinets or armoires. Get yourself a TV bench.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

No ugly cabinets or armoires. Get yourself a TV bench.

Had one. I'm glad to be rid of it.

[exca1ibur]

Something like this works for me. No overheating or doors to worry about. and doesn't take up the entire side of the room.

[Chongo]

Mine is combo of both. I took out the center module that had my 27" CRT set and put in the stand

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Gotta love the marketing shots that put a subwoofer on a stand sitting on a hard floor with freaking casters. Yeah, that won't rattle at all.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

OMG now we are talking about cabinets?!

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

OMG now we are talking about cabinets?!

Shhh... I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want anyone to realize what they were doing.

That and I was hoping for an all-out cabinet vs. stand fight.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

That and I was hoping for an all-out cabinet vs. stand fight.

You forgot wall mounts.

[exca1ibur]

Ok, so we are a 'little' off topic. My picture has a hi-def player in it though.

More than likely it's probably a DVD player, but maybe he won't notice.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Considering wall mounts add no aesthetic value, no, I didn't.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Analysts sound off: What does Blu-ray winning mean to the PS3 and gamers? - Joystiq

Universal HD DVD exclusivity contract has expired, sits non-renewed - Engadget HD

Blu-ray's CES 2008 booth tour - Engadget

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Considering wall mounts add no aesthetic value, no, I didn't.

Oh I disagree. I and a lot of others enjoy the certain coolness factor of a wall mounted TV.

Not to mention the functionality of a full motion mount. Flat panels are unwieldy and top heavy. being able to pull out/turn the TV for a better view or to get behind it is awesome. I wall mounted mine and I don't regret it one bit.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Universal HD DVD exclusivity contract has expired, sits non-renewed - Engadget HD

Universal: We're staying with HD DVD

"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format," said Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment and also co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.

The response would have come sooner, but many HD DVD executives were on flights home from CES when the story from Variety broke.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Universal: We're staying with HD DVD
[/i]

We'll see how long that lasts.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

We'll see how long that lasts.

Well, no matter what they say, there will be skeptics (including myself).

However, the fortunate thing is they specifically addressed the rumours as being full of it, so hopefully we won't see the same unsubstantiated rumours repeatedly posted every 5 minutes on some new blog or forum thread, just because the poster hadn't heard the rumour 5 hours ago.

[TETENAL]

What interest does Universal have in HD DVD? I don't see how the format war can benefit any studio.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Still doesn't change the argument that if the PS3 division doesn't become profitable soon, it'll be in big trouble.

I think they're willing to take a loss for a while on the consoles to keep the rest of the business making billions of dollars. Imagine what that would do to their entire business plan and image if they called it quits! You're just kidding yourself if you think that's even a possibility at this point! That'd be like thinking that GM and Ford are about to stop making cars since they lost billions for the last 8 or 10 quarters. Some core businesses are always going to be core even if there are a few bad years. PS3 and Blu-ray are definitely a core business at Sony, especially now that they won the war and are making billion$.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Universal: We're staying with HD DVD
"Contrary to unsubstantiated rumors from unnamed sources, Universal's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,"

I bet they don't sign another exclusive HD DVD contract!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

That'd be like thinking that GM and Ford are about to stop making cars since they lost billions for the last 8 or 10 quarters.

...you do realize there is talk that GM and Ford might go out of business, right?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by goMac 

...you do realize there is talk that GM and Ford might go out of business, right?

Exactly my point. Talk is cheap but it's not going to happen. Exactly my point.

[exca1ibur]

Not to mention Microsoft has been loosing billions on the XBox division for the last 5 years and they are still here and doing pretty well in the market so far, due to other divisions keeping the company afloat. $1.9 billion last year alone.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Exactly my point. Talk is cheap but it's not going to happen. Exactly my point.

Yeah but I mean, GM and Ford really aren't in good shape. Like, if they're not careful they could seriously go out of business, GM especially.

[ghporter]

Ford is selling off divisions. GM is trying hard to stay out of bankruptcy. Big companies can go under. It happens. I doubt that any effective bail-out could be mounted for either company if they got that close, and their importance in our economy would be made crystal clear when that many people were suddenly out of work, along with suppliers and others dependent on these companies. This is serious business and it could happen.

Which sort of puts the contest between two video formats in perspective, eh?

[exca1ibur]

Ford and GM have only one product though.

[scottiB]

The response would have come sooner, but many HD DVD executives were being restrained from jumping off flights home from CES when the story from Variety broke.

Fixed.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Ford and GM have only one product though.

No, their products are numerous in a number of markets and domains. Cars, trucks, tractors, specialized vehicles, etc. Not at all "one product." That's like saying Apple has only one product.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

That'd be like thinking that GM and Ford are about to stop making cars since they lost billions for the last 8 or 10 quarters.

Unlike Sony, GM and Ford has only one core business which is making cars and car parts. It's do or die for them. GM and Ford do however kill off divisions that are losing money, and focus on cars that do make money.

I don't even freaking know who owns Chrysler these days. Oh here you go:

Chrysler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[goMac]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Unlike Sony, GM and Ford has only one core business which is making cars and car parts. It's do or die for them. GM and Ford do however kill off divisions that are losing money, and focus on cars that do make money.

Then at the very least the Playstation division of Sony may not have a very bright future unless they turn things around...

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

No, their products are numerous in a number of markets and domains. Cars, trucks, tractors, specialized vehicles, etc. Not at all "one product." That's like saying Apple has only one product.

Those are all automotive products. One core business.

Sony has many different products in various markets. Computers, Film, Broadcast, Software, Games, Music, etc. Microsoft has software, television (MSNBC), gaming, Internet services, computer accesories,etc.

[icruise]

It's interesting that the poll numbers (for this thread) have changed pretty dramatically since these latest announcements. Back when the Paramount deal came to light and there were those deals on cheap HD-DVD standalones, HD-DVD was slightly ahead, and now Blu-ray has almost double the numbers. I just hope people are selecting what they actually own and not who they think will win, since that's not the same thing at all.

[TETENAL]

I still have neither. I will go HD when:

• One format has support from all studios and the other is officially out of production.
• 1080p LCD TVs are under €250.
• The PS3 is under €200 or (in case of the now unlikely win of HD DVD) the standalone player is under €50.
• The regular price of HD discs falls under €10.

[icruise]

I think you may be in for a bit of a wait.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Not to mention Microsoft has been loosing billions on the XBox division for the last 5 years and they are still here and doing pretty well in the market so far, due to other divisions keeping the company afloat. $1.9 billion last year alone.

Microsoft xbox division lost $1.89 billion in 2007
Sony PS3 division lost $1.97 billion in 2007

Microsoft's market cap is $321.17 Billion
Sony's market cap is $56.60 Billion

So the loss in the PS3 division is 3.35% of Sony's market cap.
The loss in the xbox 360 division is .59% of Microsoft's market cap.

Microsoft can sustain a much greater loss than Sony can. If Microsoft xbox division yearly loss is 3% of its market cap, Microsoft better think about getting rid of the xbox division.

[icruise]

Don't forget, though, that the original Xbox lost MS billions as well, while the original Playstation and PS2 were very profitable for Sony.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

I still have neither. I will go HD when:

• One format has support from all studios and the other is officially out of production.
• 1080p LCD TVs are under €250.
• The PS3 is under €200 or (in case of the now unlikely win of HD DVD) the standalone player is under €50.
• The regular price of HD discs falls under €10.

Haha... come back here in 3 years.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Don't forget, though, that the original Xbox lost MS billions as well, while the original Playstation and PS2 were very profitable for Sony.

X-Box Division since inception 2001...

2001-2005
Forbes: Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion (and counting) - Joystiq
Xbox division down $4 billion | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

2006
Microsoft Xbox Division Posts $1.9B Loss for 2006

2007
Xbox division has $1.9 billion loss, blame red rings - Joystiq

Net Loss - 2001-2007 - 7.8 Billion and counting...

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

I still have neither. I will go HD when:

• One format has support from all studios and the other is officially out of production.
• 1080p LCD TVs are under €250.
• The PS3 is under €200 or (in case of the now unlikely win of HD DVD) the standalone player is under €50.
• The regular price of HD discs falls under €10.

Indeed.. a bit more realistic expectations would be:

• One format has support from all studios and the other is officially out of production.
• 1080p LCD TVs are under €700.
• The PS3 is under €300 or (in case of the now unlikely win of HD DVD) the standalone player is under €100.
• The regular price of HD discs falls under €40.

V