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Google I/O 2015
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Jawbone54
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May 28, 2015, 02:01 PM
 
Since there might be a lot to discuss by the end of the day, I figured someone needed to start a thread to discuss the events from today.

So far, Google Now on Tap looks pretty cool, but Google Photos' offer of unlimited storage for photos kind of blew me away.

Also, if you watch the replay, notice the lady in the green dress' pounding heartbeat, clearly audible due to her lapel mic. She's the one that talked about Android One.
     
ort888
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May 28, 2015, 02:36 PM
 
Unlimited FREE photo storage makes what Apple offers look absolutely pathetic.

Apple's iCloud storage pricing is just awful. They have the highest prices of all of the competing services by a wide margin.

Considering Apple is like 10 times the size of Google, they need to figure this stuff out. It's making them look bad.

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The Final Dakar
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May 28, 2015, 02:40 PM
 
Apple doesn't know how to not monetize things.
     
starman
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May 28, 2015, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Unlimited FREE photo storage makes what Apple offers look absolutely pathetic.

Apple's iCloud storage pricing is just awful. They have the highest prices of all of the competing services by a wide margin.

Considering Apple is like 10 times the size of Google, they need to figure this stuff out. It's making them look bad.
Does it really? I wouldn't trust Google with my pictures.

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May 28, 2015, 04:19 PM
 

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OreoCookie
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May 28, 2015, 04:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Unlimited FREE photo storage makes what Apple offers look absolutely pathetic.
It's not free, who knows what they're doing to monetize your data and metadata (not just the information contained in the photos, but combined with everything else). To characterize this as free is a bit misleading. I don't want Google anywhere near my personal information.
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Apple's iCloud storage pricing is just awful. They have the highest prices of all of the competing services by a wide margin.
The prices are high, but they're offering something no other competing service can.
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Considering Apple is like 10 times the size of Google, they need to figure this stuff out. It's making them look bad.
To me it seems that Apple's prices are such that the service by itself is either run at +/- 0 or at a slight gain — as opposed to cross-financing it by device sales and such. I'd really wish they at least took the capacity of Apple devices you have bought into account (buy a 64 GB iPhone, get 64 GB of iCloud storage).
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ort888
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May 28, 2015, 05:50 PM
 
Still, look at the players...

Amazon = Unlimited storage FREE w/ Prime or $1 per month
Google = Unlimited Storage FREE
Microsoft = 15GB FREE, 1TB $7 per month
Flickr = 1TB FREE
SmugMug = Unlimited Storage $5 per month
Dropbox = 2GB FREE, 1TB = $10
Apple = 5GB FREE, 1TB = $20 per month

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OreoCookie
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May 28, 2015, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Still, look at the players...
What's there to look at?
Google has to be pay for the storage somehow, and they're doing this by analyzing your data and your behavior for their purposes. Ditto for Amazon and Flickr (owned by Yahoo). It's not free, but perhaps it is a deal you are willing to make.

Photo libraries can be massive, and services like Everpix have tried and failed to provide you with online storage of all your photos for a fee. Yes, compared to other paid services, Apple's prices are higher, but it is one of the few services which is being paid for by other business units. Honestly, I don't think iCloud drive is a good bargain, and that it should be cheaper. (Rumor has it that Apple relies on Amazon S3 for storage --- they should roll out their own storage solution if this turned out to be true.)
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mindwaves
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May 28, 2015, 09:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Does it really? I wouldn't trust Google with my pictures.
Totally agree. In fact, all of my photos are all stored on trusty HDDs, no cloud storage at all.

I might use iCloud for a few photos in the future, however.
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May 29, 2015, 08:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
What's there to look at?
Google has to be pay for the storage somehow, and they're doing this by analyzing your data and your behavior for their purposes.
And Apple doesn't?
     
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May 29, 2015, 09:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
And Apple doesn't?
I trust Apple over Google any day. At least for now.

FWIW:

At Apple, your trust means everything to us. That’s why we respect your privacy and protect it with strong encryption, plus strict policies that govern how all data is handled.

Security and privacy are fundamental to the design of all our hardware, software, and services, including iCloud and new services like Apple Pay. And we continue to make improvements. Two-step verification, which we encourage all our customers to use, in addition to protecting your Apple ID account information, now also protects all of the data you store and keep up to date with iCloud.

We believe in telling you up front exactly what’s going to happen to your personal information and asking for your permission before you share it with us. And if you change your mind later, we make it easy to stop sharing with us. Every Apple product is designed around those principles. When we do ask to use your data, it’s to provide you with a better user experience.

We’re publishing this website to explain how we handle your personal information, what we do and don’t collect, and why. We’re going to make sure you get updates here about privacy at Apple at least once a year and whenever there are significant changes to our policies.

A few years ago, users of Internet services began to realize that when an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product. But at Apple, we believe a great customer experience shouldn’t come at the expense of your privacy.

Our business model is very straightforward: We sell great products. We don’t build a profile based on your email content or web browsing habits to sell to advertisers. We don’t “monetize” the information you store on your iPhone or in iCloud. And we don’t read your email or your messages to get information to market to you. Our software and services are designed to make our devices better. Plain and simple.

One very small part of our business does serve advertisers, and that’s iAd. We built an advertising network because some app developers depend on that business model, and we want to support them as well as a free iTunes Radio service. iAd sticks to the same privacy policy that applies to every other Apple product. It doesn’t get data from Health and HomeKit, Maps, Siri, iMessage, your call history, or any iCloud service like Contacts or Mail, and you can always just opt out altogether.

Finally, I want to be absolutely clear that we have never worked with any government agency from any country to create a backdoor in any of our products or services. We have also never allowed access to our servers. And we never will.

Our commitment to protecting your privacy comes from a deep respect for our customers. We know that your trust doesn’t come easy. That’s why we have and always will work as hard as we can to earn and keep it.

Tim

https://www.apple.com/privacy/
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May 29, 2015, 11:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
And Apple doesn't?
No, because their business model isn't such that they'd benefit much from it. Apple makes a large share of their money by selling hardware, and a smaller percentage by selling software and media. Google makes 90 % of their revenue with ads that are tailored to its users. I wouldn't really which of Apple's businesses would benefit from an in-depth user analysis (keeping in mind also the associated direct and indirect costs).

One of my biggest disappointments ~10 years ago was that Google was unable or unwilling (maybe a bit of both) to look for another business model to pay for their services — which weren't tainted as much by Google's desire to drive ad revenue.
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May 29, 2015, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I trust Apple over Google any day. At least for now.
It's not just trust, you need to ask yourself cui bono? Again, this is not supposed to be an anti-Google rant, but I think you need to be conscious about the fact that somehow Google will need to pay for it, and that it does so by data mining its users.

BTW, also from a product perspective, Google photos does not seem to be on par with Apple's offerings: they will recompress videos and resize photos larger than 16 MP to 16 MP. As far as I understand, they will not keep RAW files either. For the vast majority of people, these are non-issues though.
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ort888
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May 29, 2015, 11:28 AM
 
I'm less worried about the data mining and more worried about what them entering every market with great and free products does to the competitive tech landscape.

I don't think they do this to mine the photos for data. They do it so no one else can get their foot in the door. Google wants to be your everything so you don't need to use anyone else for anything.

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osiris
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May 29, 2015, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It's not just trust, you need to ask yourself cui bono? Again, this is not supposed to be an anti-Google rant, but I think you need to be conscious about the fact that somehow Google will need to pay for it, and that it does so by data mining its users.
Precisely.
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osiris
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May 29, 2015, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Apple doesn't know how to not monetize things.
Apple sucks.



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OreoCookie
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May 29, 2015, 04:12 PM
 
I just read this more detailed article on Google Photos on AnandTech: On the »free« tier Google will rescale your photos if they are larger than 16 MP, and if you believe the people in the comments, Google also uses lower quality settings for smaller-res photos meaning that they don't just merrily accept your jpgs. However, there is a second option with Google Photos: if you allow Google Photos to use the storage of your Google Account (15 GB are free, but you can upgrade, 1 TB cost $9.99/month, for instance — half of what Apple charges, but not free).

So in this case, »free*« is actually more complicated: For smartphones, I don't think this will be an issue, and if you are willing to give your photos to Google, then you have an unlimited free-as-in-beer photo repository in the cloud. But for people with more serious cameras (like, ahem, me) you need to upgrade to higher-capacity storage — which you have to pay for.
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I'm less worried about the data mining and more worried about what them entering every market with great and free products does to the competitive tech landscape.
Storing photos is an extremely cost-intensive business, especially if you want to offer it to free and to such a broad user base. Google will have to pay for it somehow, they're not a charity. What is worse, they have made it that much more difficult for a smaller competitor to enter this market (you're right about that), and I don't think that's good.
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I don't think they do this to mine the photos for data. They do it so no one else can get their foot in the door. Google wants to be your everything so you don't need to use anyone else for anything.
What makes you think that? Flickr does it already:
Originally Posted by Flickr
Advertisements shown to you may be related to textual information, such as metadata and notes, associated with the photo you are seeing, or the search term you entered.

... We use image recognition algorithms to identify scenes, actions, or objects to tag your photos and make it easier to search images. You may hide your images from appearing in search results.
Since most photos will be taken with smartphones which, in turn, embed GPS into their photos, they contain valuable information just in the metadata alone. If you take a lot of photos in the mountains, Google's algorithms may decide to show you more ads of hiking boots and Deuter backpacks. Google's privacy policy certainly seems to allow for all of what I've said before. E. g. by accepting Google's terms you allow them to “collect and process information about your actual location.” If you're interested, you can find a more in-depth discussion here.
( Last edited by OreoCookie; May 30, 2015 at 10:37 AM. Reason: fixed link tag)
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besson3c
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May 29, 2015, 11:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
No, because their business model isn't such that they'd benefit much from it. Apple makes a large share of their money by selling hardware, and a smaller percentage by selling software and media. Google makes 90 % of their revenue with ads that are tailored to its users. I wouldn't really which of Apple's businesses would benefit from an in-depth user analysis (keeping in mind also the associated direct and indirect costs).

One of my biggest disappointments ~10 years ago was that Google was unable or unwilling (maybe a bit of both) to look for another business model to pay for their services — which weren't tainted as much by Google's desire to drive ad revenue.

I don't have a problem with this, I have a problem with their lack of transparency about this. Look at the various loyalty programs here in Canada (a leader in loyalty programs). It is pretty clear that you are providing merchants information about your purchase history in exchange for coupons and deals, but to many people this is still worth it to them. I think part of this thinking is that they know what they are giving up, and they know what they are getting.

Google doesn't really do a lot to suggest to users of a service like GMail that their email account isn't actually free.
     
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May 29, 2015, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I'm less worried about the data mining and more worried about what them entering every market with great and free products does to the competitive tech landscape.

I don't think they do this to mine the photos for data. They do it so no one else can get their foot in the door. Google wants to be your everything so you don't need to use anyone else for anything.

No matter what Google products you use, at the end of the day they make their money from data mining. Whether this is a worry to you is your call, but we need to be clear about the reality.
     
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May 30, 2015, 12:55 AM
 
The more I'm in this tech scene, the more I realize that people don't care about data mining, they just want their free stuff™.

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May 30, 2015, 01:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
The more I'm in this tech scene, the more I realize that people don't care about data mining, they just want their free stuff™.

Agreed. However, it doesn't mean that these aren't issues worth thinking about. Many Americans want to be safe too, but this doesn't mean that the Patriot Act and the other issues that Snowden took a stance on aren't things we should be discussing regularly. If we don't, envelopes will be pushed, and by the time they have been pushed too far it will be too late.
     
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May 30, 2015, 08:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
but you'd trust Apple, who sold out all their Chinese customers to their gov't and bent over for them without even a whimper?
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May 30, 2015, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post

At Apple, your trust means everything to us.
Unless you're in China, that is.
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May 30, 2015, 08:11 AM
 
What always amuses me is that people complain about the cost of apps or storage, then shell out five bucks for a coffee.
     
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May 30, 2015, 08:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
What always amuses me is that people complain about the cost of apps or storage, then shell out five bucks for a coffee.
They also don't want to pay for live music. It is strange how we value things.
     
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May 30, 2015, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
What always amuses me is that people complain about the cost of apps or storage, then shell out five bucks for a coffee.
To be fair, some people don't do that (ie. pay stupid prices for coffee, like from Starbucks (which isn't very good, TBH)).
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Jawbone54  (op)
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May 30, 2015, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Unless you're in China, that is.
More proof that everything is up for grabs at Apple so long as profit is involved.

All of these companies are desperate to raid our wallets. They're just taking a different route. I'm not sure either is less insidious.
     
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May 30, 2015, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
but you'd trust Apple, who sold out all their Chinese customers to their gov't and bent over for them without even a whimper?
Again, seriously, why are even here?

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May 31, 2015, 07:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Again, seriously, why are even here?
Sorry, I guess I missed the sign on the door that said "Cheerleaders Only".
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May 31, 2015, 08:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Again, seriously, why are even here?
Because of the bullshit "Apple isn't as evil as Google" stuff.
     
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May 31, 2015, 09:03 AM
 
Why are there still Apple cheerleaders? I got it when the company was an underdog, and I get that there are Apple appreciators, but the fanboy thing?

Is it a belief that Apple doesn't require consumser vigilance?
     
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May 31, 2015, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Because of the bullshit "Apple isn't as evil as Google" stuff.
Ayup. They didn't become the wealthiest, most powerful tech company in the world by being nice, decent, or even law-abiding. They got there by exploiting the human compulsion for new toys (not really a bad thing) and being absolutely ruthless towards anyone, or anything, that gets in their way (the shitty side of Western corporate philosophy). Simply put, show me a $50B company and I'll show at least an acre's worth of human graves that they're built on, (mostly) figuratively speaking. It's the nature of the beast.
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May 31, 2015, 01:48 PM
 
So that gives you the right to come to an Apple site and crap all over every thread? Get a life, dude.

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May 31, 2015, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So that gives you the right to come to an Apple site and toke all over every thread? Get a life, dude.
What's the problem here? I just don't get it. What difference does it make whether this is an Apple site?
     
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May 31, 2015, 06:59 PM
 
You're bound to run into some kind of opposition when you go to a site dedicated to one particular brand and then start pointing out shortcomings of said brand, even more so when done in a combative manner.

Personally speaking, my brand loyalty is negligible so I don't really care, but others are clearly not as tolerant.
     
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May 31, 2015, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So that gives you the right to come to an Apple site and crap all over every thread? Get a life, dude.
Maybe I do it to see you turn red? I don't, because I don't care enough about you to do that, but making you mad is reason enough, IMO. Okay, let me explain this in simple terms: I talk about it here precisely because it IS an Apple site, and these are Apple issues. I go to an Apple site to voice criticism towards Apple and an Android site to do the same with regards to Android (xda), because doing the reverse is pointless and accomplishes nothing.

All that aside, your main issue here is you don't understand the purpose and nature of criticism, sans juvenile ad hominems (ie. "Android sucks") it isn't to tear something down, it's to point out deficiencies in the hope of bringing about change. When there's a problem, and Apple has as many as any big corporation, being silent (or even worse, cheering them on) doesn't help them, because they're heading in that direction already.
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May 31, 2015, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
You're bound to run into some kind of opposition when you go to a site dedicated to one particular brand and then start pointing out shortcomings of said brand, even more so when done in a combative manner.

Personally speaking, my brand loyalty is negligible so I don't really care, but others are clearly not as tolerant.
Pointing out shortcomings is actually the valuable part of the conversations, cheerleading is comparatively worthless.
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May 31, 2015, 08:05 PM
 
My current fear with Apple isn't that they're "as evil as Google." All large companies are subjectively evil to a certain extent. My fear with Apple is how serious and self-important they've become.

Remember when they were the upstarts and renegades? They took chances. They had quirky little ads. Their products made people smile. They were orchestrating a revolution.

Today, they're releasing overly-serious ads that resonate with no one, and Google is opening their keynotes with giant games of Pong and ads that are better than anything I've seen from Apple in years.

This isn't an advertisement contest, but Google's is definitely starting to resonate with me more than Apple's. Not everyone will feel the same way, but I know of many long-time Apple users who are tired of rolling their eyes at the crazy prices and inflated egos.
     
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May 31, 2015, 08:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Okay, let me explain this in simple terms: I talk about it here precisely because it IS an Apple site, and these are Apple issues. I go to an Apple site to voice criticism towards Apple and an Android site to do the same with regards to Android (xda), because doing the reverse is pointless and accomplishes nothing.
So you come here to 'criticize' Apple, but you do the same on an Android site? That's hilarious. Shouldn't your two personas cancel each other out?

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May 31, 2015, 09:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
You're bound to run into some kind of opposition when you go to a site dedicated to one particular brand and then start pointing out shortcomings of said brand, even more so when done in a combative manner.

Personally speaking, my brand loyalty is negligible so I don't really care, but others are clearly not as tolerant.

I just want to understand the brand loyalty thing. Why do people feel emotionally attached to their Macs? They are neither rare nor underdoggy any longer. Are people emotionally attached to Walmart and Target?
     
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May 31, 2015, 09:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So you come here to 'criticize' Apple, but you do the same on an Android site? That's hilarious. Shouldn't your two personas cancel each other out?
Why?
     
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May 31, 2015, 10:55 PM
 
If anybody thinks that posting on a long forgotten message board in a dusty old corner of the inter webs will make any difference whatsoever on Apple's, or anybody else's, corporate strategy then

This little nook reminds me of a barbershop full of cranky old men. It's fun to pop in ever now and then, but that's as far as it goes.
     
Laminar
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Jun 1, 2015, 12:28 AM
 
besson's back with a vengeance!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 1, 2015, 06:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So you come here to 'criticize' Apple, but you do the same on an Android site? That's hilarious. Shouldn't your two personas cancel each other out?
I provide criticism about Apple on an Apple site and criticize Android on an Android site, because doing the opposite is pointless (and possibly even counterproductive). Being a critic is a service, and a valuable one at that, it isn't about winning popularity contests. Interestingly enough, xda members seem to understand this much more readily than many people here, probably because of the (mostly) open nature of Android OS.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
The Final Dakar
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Location: Eternity
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Jun 1, 2015, 09:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Being a critic is a service, and a valuable one at that,
Let's not get carried away with one's self-worth here. I find you to be contrarian fairly often and I have hard time believing that you don't enjoy doing it.
     
Laminar
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Jun 1, 2015, 09:52 AM
 
But I'm a dick for the greater good.
     
osiris
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Jun 1, 2015, 10:20 AM
 
Steve Jobs said he wanted Apple to be the American Sony - a new product cycle roughly every 18 months.

That's as honest as it gets - meaning your shiny new toy will be old in 18 months.
Better than raping your photos, emails, and docs for something to whore out on.

But let us get over ourselves, after all, this is the business we have chosen.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Phileas
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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Jun 1, 2015, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Let's not get carried away with one's self-worth here. I find you to be contrarian fairly often and I have hard time believing that you don't enjoy doing it.
There's a whole bunch of role playing going on on this here board if I'm any judge.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 1, 2015, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Let's not get carried away with one's self-worth here. I find you to be contrarian fairly often and I have hard time believing that you don't enjoy doing it.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
But I'm a dick for the greater good.
You can't have fun while doing something beneficial? And being critical of Apple is being a dick? Oh, hell no.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
The Final Dakar
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
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Jun 1, 2015, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You can't have fun while doing something beneficial?
It's not about the contradiction, its about the misrepresentation.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
And being critical of Apple is being a dick?
Nope, but your contrarian style sure can be.
     
 
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