[Cung]

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0203/01.eisner.php

This money grubbin fool accuses apple promoting computer piracy..kinda ironic considering His company's only money maker's have come from
computer generated Pixar who's CEO is our good buddy Mr Jobs..anyone see atlantis?...me neither.

[KellyHogan]

Aside from Disney raping Narnia, lets look at our once beloved company's record:

-Firstly nearly all their classic animated movies such as Snow White and Pinocchio were invented by story tellers years ago. Disney profited from these stories without giving anything to anyone and in some cases they even made trademarks and copyrights for themselves.

-Stories like Pocahontas were Disney's attempt at twisting history and teaching poor history to kids.

-The Lion King was a virtual rip off of Hamlet (but then Shakespeare was a bit of thief anyway because an Arab told him that story which was based on an ancient Egyptian story).

The Atlantis thing is pretty shocking though. But good ol' Apple-friendly Dreamworks and Pixar are teaching Disney a lesson. They produce original pieces without 'pirating' others.

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: KellyHogan ]

[flatcatch]

Eisner was flappin his jaw at everyone... and got into a cat fight with Intel's VP on the same subject.

[Millennium]

Eisner is a scumbag who'd like nothing more than to force people to pay him to not watch his stuff just as much as to watch it (and indeed, that's what "piracy taxes" on blank media are really all about).

While an ethical system of copy protection can probably be made (I've been working on designing just such a system; I'll write an article up on it when I have a working solution to offer), we have yet to see it in the industry. The only ones out there, and the ones the SSSCA would put into place, are just there to illegally extend copyright to perpetuity, and destroy all semblance of fair use.

[MikeM32]

Disney lost it's flair ages ago when Don Bluth left the company and formed his own studio. For those that aren't familiar with Bluth's movies and other projects his studio did the movies "A Land Before Time", "Anastasia", "The Secret of Nimh" and "Titan A.E." among others.

His studio also did the animation for the eraly 80's groundbreaking Digital Laser Disk arcade games "Dragons Lair", "Space Ace" and in the early 90's "Dragon's Lair II, Time Warp". His studio's style of animation is very similar to the classic Disney style, but the storylines he chooses to portray aren't copyrited by his studio and practically "stolen" like Disney tends to do. They also tend to do projects out of the "norm" of the standard "Fairy-Tale-ish" story's that Disney latches onto.

I think Eisner should really be careful who he decides to start namecalling since Pixar is putting out the only real decent "Disney" movies these days. I mean I nearly puked when I saw the commercials recently for "Peter Pan 2" holy dogsh_t!!!

Mike

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

[MacmanX]

Let's face it, Disney is a huge media conglomerate with a large interest in more than one record label. Of course they're going to tow the party line.

Anyway, if they drive Apple's stock price down, they'll be able to buy them out cheaper (like As the Apple Turns has been predicting.)

Cheers!

[beb]

Mickey ears on an iMac.

[yoyo52]

Title of the thread should be waht the first post suggests, "Disney's Michael Eisner . . . Money Grubbing." Not that there's anything wrong with grubbing for money, of course, unless it interferes with my God-given right to rip and burn. Notice that I didn't type "rip off."

The whole idiocy of putting music out on CDs that can't be copied (or played on a Mac) is plain stupid. I love tautologies, by the way . Notice that the technology will not prevent you from taping the CD onto a cassette tape or a DAT. What's the difference? If the matter comes down to a few cents charged per blank CD (as I think is the case with blank cassette tapes, and that "royalty" then gets distributed to artists, at least theoretically), then I don't think anyone would mind paying US$15 as opposed to US$12 for a hundred CD-Rs.

My sense is that it's not the artists who ultimately get the bucks, but people like Eisner, whose only contribution to the creative process is his fat a$$. For him I'm definitely not willing to pay even the extra three bucks.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: yoyo52 ]

[beb]

I think that I agree with the Intel VP.

Eisner should have known better.

[theUpsetter]

I love "The Great Mouse Detective"

[KellyHogan]

As long as CDs and DVDs can be scratched and then rendered useless, consumers have the right to make back up copies. Distributing on the internet is another thing, I don't do that. But I will always want to make back ups until they make self-healing discs.

[MadMacs]

[SOLIDAge]

The Secret of Nimh" and "Titan A.E." among others

That movie was almost as big of a flop as WATERWORLD!
it cost something like 60 mill and it barly made back 3 i think

[yukon]

um,. "rip" being part of the slogan impliles that you need something to rip from, being the cd you bought.

yeah, that peter pan 2 commercial was evil, and cinderella 2 is even worse. someone search the net/hotline for a text file called "the rise and fall of nickelodeon".

[Subzero Diesel949]

<OT>
Those who have visited the Sistine Chapel (Vatican) know that they cannot take pictures, videotape, or record with other mediums of the Last Judgment. Supposedly Disney owns the copyright. Or so as I heard. But I do remember ABC News (Disney) doing a special on the Sistine Chapel.

Maybe Eisner is Bill Gates' evil twin brother...they OWN us.

</OT>

[scaught]

Originally posted by MadMacs:
<STRONG>The whole music industry is a scam. There is no way that Music CD's should cost more than $6.

A movie costs 1000's of times more to create and you can get several high quality dvd's for as low as $9.44. Other titles ranging from $14 to 19.95.

Instead of becoming competetive and come out with resaonable prices, all they can do is whine.

I will NEVER buy another music CD ever again because of this scam.

They are theives. Competetion is good. It is long overdoo for CD prices to never be over $6.

We should all boycott the music industry until they can get with the program.</STRONG>

the movie industry only releases DVD/VHS movies as an afterthought. all their money is made in the movie theatre. how much was that last movie ticket you bought? how many hundred people were just in THAT showing of the movie? got it?

as far as the music industry, i was in a sam goody the other day and saw the prices of CDs up at 18.99 which is just INSANE. 6 dollars is very unrealistic as well. the costs of recording/mixing/studio time/studio musicians/etc arent going down anytime soon and are already outrageous. plus the costs of promotion/payouts to radiostations/mtv/etc. then the artist and the company wants some profits just for the trouble and you pretty much get the idea. they run a huge business. it costs alot of money. is 19 bucks too much? probably. are they overcharging? for sure, but probably not by the margin you insinuate when you think they should charge 6 bucks. yes, we can point to the independent music scene and how cheap their CDs are, but all the costs involved are much much less.

[VRL]

Originally posted by MadMacs:
<STRONG>The whole music industry is a scam. There is no way that Music CD's should cost more than $6.

A movie costs 1000's of times more to create and you can get several high quality dvd's for as low as $9.44. Other titles ranging from $14 to 19.95.

Instead of becoming competetive and come out with resaonable prices, all they can do is whine.

I will NEVER buy another music CD ever again because of this scam.

They are theives. Competetion is good. It is long overdoo for CD prices to never be over $6.

We should all boycott the music industry until they can get with the program.</STRONG>

Actually, imagine if artists started putting their music on their own web sites, so you could listen to music (RealPlayer, QuickTime) and then buy one song at a time (mp3, aiff, whatever). You (the customer) could then burn your own CD's - do whatever you want with the music (except sell it).

The "music industry" would become obsolete, and big record labels/distributors wouldn't be getting billions of dollars any more. ... The artists (musicians) would get the money that they truly deserve to get.

Frankly, I'm shocked that musicians haven't figured this out. They could eliminate the "middle-men" and make more money. ... And their fans would be happier, too

[scottiB]

VRL, agreed.

On a different tack, the labels could make money by becoming an online music library. Charge $15 a month for the ability to download 20 songs a month from that label's entire library ($25 for 35 downloads, $35 for 60 dl's, etc.).

Eliminate the compact disc as the delivery method.

[dreilly1]

Remember, Media companies don't actually create content, they distribute it. Record companies loan artists the money to produce their album, and then take the money out of the artist's cut of the profits. So the Artist is actually paying (indirectly) for production. All the Music Companies do is get the album onto store shelves. That's it. For this service, they get all the rights to the creative work of the group while they are under contract. All Your Songs belong to Us!

Movies are made a little differently, although I still think the "producer" takes on most of the financial risk. Big movie companies are still mainly distributors of content. Even Disney, which has a fair amount of creative talent under contract, wouldn't be able to attract the talent unless they were able to widely distribute their work.

With the Internet, it's possible for ordinary people to distribute their own creative works, without the benefit of a distributor and their money. This is what has companies like Disney running scared; It's a lot harder to attract talent when all someone has to do is put his drawings on his website and automatically have a potential worldwide audience! The Internet has the potential to break the content monopoly (Oligopoly?) enjoyed by the media companies.

The Piracy thing is just a convenient thing that the Media Companies can wave in front of Polititians as an excuse to keep their oligopoly going. After all, who would be against piracy? Even the name sounds evil. In reality, any increased piracy is a by-product of the fact that digital content is far cheaper to manage, prodice, and (yes) copy than it's analog ancestor.

But the content companies are getting too greedy. They want to charge Analog prices for digital content that the artist pays to produce, but is far cheaper to deliver. But in order for this to work, they need to stamp out the notion that mere mortals can make copies of their works on a limited basis. They have the software in place to prevent mere mortals from even accessing suspect works, and the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent it. Pretty soon, they'll have the hardware in place, and the SSSCA will make it illegal to circumvent that. The key thing, though, is that your next-generation DVD player can't tell the difference between your home movies and a bootleg copy of "Snow Dogs". As a result, in their world, all content comes from "Approved" sources, and there is no concept of ordinary people producing anything. Now, creative people have no choice but to go into indentured servitude to content companies, because it is the only way they can legally distribute their works.

So, to Eisner's big, round ears, "Rip, Mix, Burn" should be a Big, Fat Theft, because as long as people think they should have the right to copy media for personal use, they'll think they have the right to create, too. And the plan for the future is to take away the rights of the citizenry to create things. Creative License may have a whole new ring to it in five years!

[VRL]

Originally posted by dreilly1:
<STRONG>
With the Internet, it's possible for ordinary people to distribute their own creative works, without the benefit of a distributor and their money. This is what has companies like Disney running scared; It's a lot harder to attract talent when all someone has to do is put his drawings on his website and automatically have a potential worldwide audience! The Internet has the potential to break the content monopoly (Oligopoly?) enjoyed by the media companies.
</STRONG>

Well said.

In other words, take a cue from shareware developers. No need to put boxed software on shelves in a computer store. Just put up a decent web site, and use services such as www.versiontracker.com to get the word out

[ 03-06-2002: Message edited by: VRL ]

[VRL]

Originally posted by scottiB:
<STRONG>VRL, agreed.

On a different tack, the labels could make money by becoming an online music library. Charge $15 a month for the ability to download 20 songs a month from that label's entire library ($25 for 35 downloads, $35 for 60 dl's, etc.).

Eliminate the compact disc as the delivery method.</STRONG>

Absolutely.

And companies like Columbia House could shift services and start offering custom CD's... CD's that they make to your specifications, and then deliver to your door. (CH would in turn pay artists for the music sold.)

And music stores could have nice desktop computer systems for customers to make custom CD's (alongside whatever else they have to sell). The customers pay for the music and the blank CD, and they get exactly what they want.

(Too bad nobody asks us.)

[ 03-06-2002: Message edited by: VRL ]

[cjrivera]

Well I figured out how Eisner is gonna put a stop to the illegal copying of Disney movies and music....

after seeing Peter Pan 2 and Cinderella 2 (the kids' idea, not mine), and seeing what total EXCREMENT disney is producing nowadays, it is likely NO ONE will ever copy any of these worthless songs or pirate either of these $hitty movies! (Well, Disney writers may copy them for future crappy storylines.... Peter Pan 6: A New Beginning.... Cinderella 8: A Princess takes Manhattan...)

Now if only they didn't have to deal with those well-made Pixar movies that everyone really wants to see and listen to.....