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McCain VP Choice.....
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zerostar
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Aug 29, 2008, 08:42 AM
 
my prediction? (since you all sooo want to know what Zerostar thinks not to be outdone by Obama, John McCain will pick a political minority as his VP. you heard it here first.
( Last edited by zerostar; Aug 29, 2008 at 09:17 AM. )
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 08:51 AM
 
No, he's going to pick the the gal from Alaska methinks.
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:00 AM
 
He should pick Ron Paul. Then you'd steal Obama's "change" platform from under him.
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:01 AM
 
I think "the gal from Alaska" is the most likely pick, too.



But Joe Lieberman would be an awesome pick, also.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:03 AM
 
Never heard of her.
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:16 AM
 
Thats who I meant Sarah Palin it will be.

edit: clarified...
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
He should pick Ron Paul. Then you'd steal Obama's "change" platform from under him.
Paul would never accept that. Though it would get me back on the R ticket.
     
TheMosco
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:42 AM
 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...-vp-conte.html

"McCain VP Contender Palin in Alaska, Not Ohio"

From 8:54 this morning
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zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:44 AM
 
No she isn't
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 09:48 AM
 
EDIT: removed. let the suspense build haha
     
TheMosco
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:10 AM
 
well, if abc is wrong, which is highly likely, this would be an interesting pick.

She seems to bring a lot of to the table that conservatives like.

It will be interesting to see if McCain refocuses his attacks though. I mean the guy is old and if he gets elected, and god forbid has some health issues. If people are worried that Obama isn't experienced enough, are people worried about her at all?
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:16 AM
 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26454655

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Is McCain's VP Pick: Source
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:18 AM
 
If true, this will make the race quite interesting.

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zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:42 AM
 
It is true and its a strange choice. I thought no one with that little experience should be that close to the WH? pretty much shut up the experience cry there huh.

Oh are they just going for the soccer mom vote? Guns, God, Gays is all they have left... and drilling in the AKWR of course. How progressive of McCain.

Biden will tear her up in the debates, but certainly can't pull off the 3-piece she can

The new republican party deserves to lose this thing, and I think they are well on the way. I do not connect with them anymore and I don't know who can... they make it so...... friggin hypocritical.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:45 AM
 
imo this pick is a little too transparent for my tastes. It almost cries desperation.

But good luck righties - this is going to be an interesting time with lots of good debate.
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:46 AM
 
Honestly, McCain has nothing to lose and everything to gain from this selection. So many of the Hilarites came off so sexist that the opportunity to vote for a female VP over the dude who beat Hilary seems like a no-brainer. This could steal a lot of Democrat votes.
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
imo this pick is a little too transparent for my tastes. It almost cries desperation.
He had to bus people in to fill a 18K hall, Obama had a 6 mile long line at 4pm yesterday and 85,000 people in Mile High... damn right it reeks.
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Honestly, McCain has nothing to lose and everything to gain from this selection. So many of the Hilarites came off so sexist that the opportunity to vote for a female VP over the dude who beat Hilary seems like a no-brainer. This could steal a lot of Democrat votes.
From what i have seen there isn't enough of them to make a big difference.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:50 AM
 
Sure, some will vote for her just because she is a woman. But that has to be a very small, if miniscule minority.
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Dakar V
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by zerostar View Post
From what i have seen there isn't enough of them to make a big difference.
The swing vote is supposed to be so small though... and HIlary was with Field Goal distance of the nomination.
     
osiris
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:55 AM
 
The proof will come when Palin makes it clear where she stands on the big issues, and I don't know anything about her, so, we'll see.
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Dakar V
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
I don't know anything about her, so, we'll see.
True that.

In response to the VP debates comment, 1988 proved VPs don't matter for much.
     
zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:57 AM
 
she is a governor of 3000 for 2 years. not much to know besides all the corruption she brings and the down syndrome boy she is leaving behind to head for the WH. jajaja.

God. Gay's. Guns. that's all you need to know about her.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:57 AM
 
Interesting how McCain's choice is desperate, but Obama's pick is somehow consistent with his message of change. No matter what happens it seems an old white male career politician will be involved.

I know nothing of Palin. Interesting development. I think shrewd has been mistaken for desperate.
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:58 AM
 
So what narrative will McCain use against Obama now? He's tried the celebrity thing, that was somewhat effective, but all of the out of touch stuff has exploded in his face after the stuff he said about $5 million being in the rich income bracket and the home ownership thing... He can't go back to inexperienced now... Lies about Obama raising taxes? Elitist?

He really needs to find a way to attack Obama or else he is going to have a very hard time with the morons that are affected by this sort of crap that CNN and the like force feeds us everyday.
     
Big Mac
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Aug 29, 2008, 10:58 AM
 
Wow! My mother actually called this pick. McCain-Palin is the rational change ticket. Onward to victory.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So what narrative will McCain use against Obama now? He's tried the celebrity thing, that was somewhat effective, but all of the out of touch stuff has exploded in his face after the stuff he said about $5 million being in the rich income bracket and the home ownership thing... He can't go back to inexperienced now... Lies about Obama raising taxes? Elitist?

He really needs to find a way to attack Obama or else he is going to have a very hard time with the morons that are affected by this sort of crap that CNN and the like force feeds us everyday.
The home ownership thing hasn't stuck at all. Not one bit. While younger than Obama, do you have evidence that Palin is less experienced? You'll see the problems with Obama's tax platitudes in the upcoming debates. Trust me.

IMO, this changes the entire debate. Very interesting choice. I may be voting after all.

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zerostar  (op)
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:08 AM
 
Miss 18 mos and a beauty pageant (and under state investigation.. a GOP requirement these days) is ready to look Putin in the eyes is McGrams health deteriorates? Hmm
     
Big Mac
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:09 AM
 
Anyone see fat-dumb-ass Bob Beckel commenting on the possibility of Palin? He looked nearly catatonic.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
fat-dumb-ass Bob Beckel
I have no idea who Bob Beckel is, but judging from your depiction, I feel safe in assuming he's not a conservative.

Edit: Boy, I'm good.
     
besson3c
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
The home ownership thing hasn't stuck at all. Not one bit. While younger than Obama, do you have evidence that Palin is less experienced? You'll see the problems with Obama's tax platitudes in the upcoming debates. Trust me.

IMO, this changes the entire debate. Very interesting choice. I may be voting after all.

Well, the experience argument seems to hinge upon years in government, of which Palin has less. You know that I don't buy into the experience argument at all, so I'm just playing Devil's advocate here.

I don't know or care if the home thing has stuck, but it (and the $5 million income bracket thing) provides Obama's campaign with a very snappy response when McCain uses this line of attack. Has McCain continued these attacks since gaffe #2039840923, or whatever we are up to now and are supposed to care about?

Obama's tax cut promises may or may not be platitudes, but McCain's campaign going on about how Obama was going to raise taxes when Obama has only never announced doing this for the very rich minority is extremely disingenuous at best. The tax thing will be brought up in debates, but I think it will probably be a wash complicated by "you're going to raise taxes", "no I'm not!" complicating matters enough that people are left with nothing but their gut feelings on this issue.

I'm having a hard time seeing how his selection will help McCain come up with an effective narrative, and I'm speaking purely from a political strategic pespective here. His best line of attack was attacking Obama's experience and planting seeds of doubt, but I think he'll have a harder time doing that now trying to convince us to entrust the government to somebody even more inexperienced than Obama (again, using the metrics being used to measure experience) if something happens to McCain. Polls show that McCain's age is already a great concern to people.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
You raise some good points, besson. Here are my responses:

1. Obama can't go after Palin for lack of experience unless he wants to undercut his own candidacy at the same time because the differential in political experience between Palin and Obama is negligible. Plus, Obama's response to the experience challenge has been to say that his judgment compensates for his lack of experience, so she can say the same thing just as easily.

2. She enjoys 80% approval ratings as governor, while by comparison Obama's negatives are escalating and I don't think old Biden will help him.

3. No one who thinks McCain is too old is going to vote for him in the first place, no matter who happened to be on the bottom of the ticket.

4. Biden can't go after Palin too aggressively or else he'll lose women for attacking the female candidate too hard.

5. Palin is a game changer for a number of reasons, one of which is that a substantial percentage of women want to vote for a ticket with a woman on it. Obama denied that opportunity by not choosing Hillary.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
I'm a woman and I will never vote for McCain for this choice.

I would have voted for Condoleeza Rice, but I won't vote for someone who is an elevated soccer mom.

Republicans all over the country are sitting here with our mouths open.

I've decided that it's a good thing that Obama will be president because he's obviously senile.

Congratulations to all of the Dems on your win of Obama Hussein as next President of the United States.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:26 AM
 
Oh, and zerostar nailed it on the head:

Miss 18 mos and a beauty pageant (and under state investigation.. a GOP requirement these days) is ready to look Putin in the eyes is McGrams health deteriorates? Hmm
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:27 AM
 
Look on the bright side, people: no matter who wins, history will be made. (Maybe not: who's Ron Paul's VP?)

McCain will have to come up with a new narrative, of course, because Palin is less experienced with national issues than Obama, and almost as pretty. But the previous narrative sucked, anyway, and appealed to no one but the Republican party base. It's time for a change!

(As far as being under state investigation, she's a politician in Alaska. I think being under investigation is a requirement for office there....)
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:27 AM
 
He's muslim ya know. Internet told me so.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:28 AM
 
The McCain-ites make fun of Obama, who's been in politics for 10 years, but then choose someone for VP who's been in politics less than two?

Yeah, great choice. I'm sure she knows a lot about that Iraq thing and stuff. I'm just waiting for all the defections from the Republicans over this genius move.
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besson3c
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
You raise some good points, besson. Here are my responses:

1. Obama can't go after Palin for lack of experience unless he wants to undercut his own candidacy at the same time because the differential in political experience between Palin and Obama is negligible. Plus, Obama's response to the experience challenge has been to say that his judgment compensates for his lack of experience, so she can say the same thing just as easily.

2. She enjoys 80% approval ratings as governor, while by comparison Obama's negatives are escalating and I don't think old Biden will help him.

3. No one who thinks McCain is too old is going to vote for him in the first place, no matter who happened to be on the bottom of the ticket.

4. Biden can't go after Palin too aggressively or else he'll lose women for attacking the female candidate too hard.

5. Palin is a game changer for a number of reasons, one of which is that a substantial percentage of women want to vote for a ticket with a woman on it. Obama denied that opportunity by not choosing Hillary.

You raise good points too, but I will say to #1 that I wasn't envisioning that Obama himself would go after Palin, but Obama's campaign would have snappy retorts to use when either McCain or Palin use experience agaonst Obama as any sort of argument.

I'm not sure I agree on your other points, but they are possibilities.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
The good news is,this will help make the hypocrisy on both campaigns palpable, and probably make the Daily Show even better.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:33 AM
 
HAHA see yesterday? "Get to the stadium early.... hope isn't going to park your car" haha
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:34 AM
 
She'll "Palin" comparison. Obama is just "Bidin" his time.

I'm sure the ethics investigation will go far to convince hard-working, white Americans that she stands for them on the tough issues of f**king over your ex in-laws.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You raise good points too, but I will say to #1 that I wasn't envisioning that Obama himself would go after Palin, but Obama's campaign would have snappy retorts to use when either McCain or Palin use experience agaonst Obama as any sort of argument.
Yeah, but there's a big difference there you're forgetting about: Obama is at the top of the Democrat ticket. He's the one running for the top office, and it's his experience versus McCain's that is in focus. If he were Biden's VP pick or Hillary's VP pick, then Obama's experience wouldn't matter as much. McCain can still pick away at Obama's inexperience and naivete; if Obama's retort is Palin, then McCain will simply say that she has essentially the same amount of experience as Obama. And as long as she performs well enough in the debate, her relative inexperience in the VP slot will be a truly insignificant factor.

I'm not sure I agree on your other points, but they are possibilities.
I didn't think you would, but thank you nevertheless for leaving it open as a possibility.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Anyone see fat-dumb-ass Bob Beckel commenting on the possibility of Palin? He looked nearly catatonic.
He said on Monday "if McCain picks a woman, it's over for Obama"
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
The good news is,this will help make the hypocrisy on both campaigns palpable, and probably make the Daily Show even better.
Its been a good run the last 8 years though.
     
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
You raise some good points, besson. Here are my responses:

1. Obama can't go after Palin for lack of experience unless he wants to undercut his own candidacy at the same time because the differential in political experience between Palin and Obama is negligible. Plus, Obama's response to the experience challenge has been to say that his judgment compensates for his lack of experience, so she can say the same thing just as easily.
True.

2. She enjoys 80% approval ratings as governor, while by comparison Obama's negatives are escalating and I don't think old Biden will help him.
Her approval ratings in Alaska are irrelevant in a national campaign at the moment, since no one outside of Alaska knows who she is yet. But this obviously doesn't hurt.

3. No one who thinks McCain is too old is going to vote for him in the first place, no matter who happened to be on the bottom of the ticket.
True.

4. Biden can't go after Palin too aggressively or else he'll lose women for attacking the female candidate too hard.
On the flipside, Hillary won her support by playing "the fighter," so it might actually damage McCain's hopes to win over that demographic if Palin doesn't aggressively seek a challenge from Biden.

5. Palin is a game changer for a number of reasons, one of which is that a substantial percentage of women want to vote for a ticket with a woman on it. Obama denied that opportunity by not choosing Hillary.
I don't think it's really that simple. At 44, Palin is on the cusp of completely missing the female demographic that supported Hillary. Hillary's hard-core female supporters tended to be older baby boomers who saw Hillary as embodying their generational struggle for women's rights. Younger women were more likely to support Obama.

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tie
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
1. Obama can't go after Palin for lack of experience unless he wants to undercut his own candidacy at the same time because the differential in political experience between Palin and Obama is negligible. Plus, Obama's response to the experience challenge has been to say that his judgment compensates for his lack of experience, so she can say the same thing just as easily.
Obama has demonstrated a lot more leadership than Palin.

2. She enjoys 80% approval ratings as governor, while by comparison Obama's negatives are escalating and I don't think old Biden will help him.
This is Alaska. Alaskans love the worst, most corrupt politicians in the US so long as they keep the pork and oil welfare checks coming. High approval ratings in Alaska doesn't seem meaningful.

3. No one who thinks McCain is too old is going to vote for him in the first place, no matter who happened to be on the bottom of the ticket.
Why not? That doesn't make sense. For Obama the VP choice didn't matter. For McCain, his age means that it does quite a bit.
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
Obama has demonstrated a lot more leadership than Palin.
That's your subjective opinion. He's only been a legislator, never an executive. She has executive experience. And once again, she isn't the one running for president.

This is Alaska. Alaskans love the worst, most corrupt politicians in the US so long as they keep the pork and oil welfare checks coming. High approval ratings in Alaska doesn't seem meaningful.
Do you know anything about her career? She's the maverick governor who has a reputation for combating corruption in that state. Besides, don't tell me Illinois state politics (the bulk of Obama's experience) isn't a bastion of corruption.

Why not? That doesn't make sense. For Obama the VP choice didn't matter. For McCain, his age means that it does quite a bit.
if you think he's going anywhere within the next four years, you're not going to be voting for him at all. McCain doesn't really care about voters who feel that way about his age. He wants to close the female gap.

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Aug 29, 2008, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Yeah, but there's a big difference there you're forgetting about: Obama is at the top of the Democrat ticket. He's the one running for the top office, and it's his experience versus McCain's that is in focus. If he were Biden's VP pick or Hillary's VP pick, then Obama's experience wouldn't matter as much. McCain can still pick away at Obama's inexperience and naivete; if Obama's retort is Palin, then McCain will simply say that she has essentially the same amount of experience as Obama. And as long as she performs well enough in the debate, her relative inexperience in the VP slot will be a truly insignificant factor.


I didn't think you would, but thank you nevertheless for leaving it open as a possibility.
well, I can the debate going something like this:

McCain: Obama is in-experienced
Obama: What if Palin needs to step up
McCain: um um um, I am a POW and a leader

I could care less about her experience, I just want McCain to start campaigning on his own merits.
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Aug 29, 2008, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheMosco View Post
well, I can the debate going something like this:

McCain: Obama is in-experienced
Obama: What if Palin needs to step up
McCain: um um um, I am a POW and a leader

I could care less about her experience, I just want McCain to start campaigning on his own merits.
McCain has done such a disservice to women. Biden is going to slaughter her in the debates, and it's going to set women in politics back years.
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Aug 29, 2008, 12:04 PM
 
Remember that both sides are good at "managing" debate expectations. They deliberately try to set the bar lower before the debates, so that even if one candidate outperforms the other, if the "losing" candidate did much better than expected it can be sold as a "win".

And I wouldn't assume that Biden would "slaughter" Palin in a debate. I know nothing about Palin, or her debate skills. We already know that Biden is prone to saying things he regrets later....
     
 
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