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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > New iPod shuffle... WTF?

New iPod shuffle... WTF? (Page 2)
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Hg2491
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Mar 11, 2009, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by fhoubi View Post
Rev. B will add an mic to the airbuds, where you can clap gestures to control it
Imagine yourself doing this while you commute. People would stare.

Originally Posted by B Gallagher View Post
I'm still curious how it plugs into your computer. The tech specs say USB cable, but there's no pictures.

More here.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 11, 2009, 06:13 PM
 
You don't do "humor", do you?


And that cable is basically the exact same thing as the last shuffle came with (except there it was molded into a little altar).
     
Hg2491
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Mar 11, 2009, 06:19 PM
 
I was actually laughing out loud as I typed that

Edit: It's extremely short. Of course, there's the long version available for purchase
     
kmkkid
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Mar 11, 2009, 08:06 PM
 
I wonder why they didn't just make the whole unit clickable? If they can make a tiny little earphone remote click, they could have done it with the shuffle itself.

To me, that's the logical next step. It would be 'cool' and wouldn't exclude 3rd party accessories.

Guess Apple is off its rocker these days with the current iMac/Mac Pro/Shuffle updates + price increases in a time of recession.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 11, 2009, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I'll go on record as having said that anybody who considers the design hideous at this point has utterly failed to take into account that this thing is tiny, tiny, tiny.
It may be tiny tiny tiny, but the instruction manual is big big big.

     
Brien
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Mar 12, 2009, 01:43 AM
 
Kinda pointless IMHO.
     
moep
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Mar 12, 2009, 03:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
It may be tiny tiny tiny, but the instruction manual is big big big.
Wow. The Macbook Wheel suddenly doesn’t seem so ridiculous now.
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Simon
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Mar 12, 2009, 04:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Another point on the price – Apple's raising prices in this economy again?

They're really coming off as over confident here.
Yep, they did it again.

Somebody really has to explain this to me. How come Apple thinks the appropriate measure in an economic crisis is to slow down development and raise prices? It's as if they were deliberately trying to push people away.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 12, 2009, 06:48 AM
 
They're "slowing down development"?
     
rogermugs
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Mar 12, 2009, 07:51 AM
 
all i have to say is that i have the 3g and its the perfect ipod for running... wont change it... probably will use it until it dies... who wants controls on their headphones? esp when running... (that said the single button deal for the iphone headphones is sweet)
     
Eug
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by rogermugs View Post
all i have to say is that i have the 3g and its the perfect ipod for running... wont change it... probably will use it until it dies... who wants controls on their headphones? esp when running... (that said the single button deal for the iphone headphones is sweet)
Hmmm... So basically, you've said you like the button near the headphones.

I agree. I like the idea. I just don't like the idea of having to pay a significant amount extra for a dongle (which currently doesn't exist anyway).

I betcha it will be $29, or perhaps even CAD$35. Not good, when I paid about $50 for my shuffle.


Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
It may be tiny tiny tiny, but the instruction manual is big big big.

     
Dakar V
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Mar 12, 2009, 09:21 AM
 
That is awful.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 12, 2009, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I agree. I like the idea. I just don't like the idea of having to pay a significant amount extra for a dongle (which currently doesn't exist anyway).

I betcha it will be $29, or perhaps even CAD$35. Not good, when I paid about $50 for my shuffle.
Yep. I think the minimum amount for an Apple iAccessory is about $30US
     
Hg2491
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Mar 12, 2009, 07:57 PM
 
     
DCJ001
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Mar 12, 2009, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by B Gallagher View Post
Given the price points of the latest refreshes of Macs (both desktop and laptop), I'm not surprised.

1. But I really wonder what the hell Apple is doing making things *more* expensive.

2. Then you'll have seen the headphone cable of someone who's running, etc. at the gym? The thing's flying around all over the place.

3. I'm still curious how it plugs into your computer. The tech specs say USB cable, but there's no pictures.
1. Making better products with higher profit margins.

2. It clips on so as to not "fly around."

3.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...d_shuffle.html
     
ajprice
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Mar 13, 2009, 03:30 AM
 
Those photos really get across how small the thing is, the size of an apple earphone! To get the buttons in there too doesn't look like such a good idea now when it's that tiny.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 13, 2009, 08:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
To get the buttons in there too doesn't look like such a good idea now when it's that tiny.
Which begs the question "is it too small?". If trying to make it small simply to be "the smallest evar" has a negative impact on simplicity and ease of use, is it worth making it the smallest evar?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Mar 13, 2009, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Which begs the question "is it too small?". If trying to make it small simply to be "the smallest evar" has a negative impact on simplicity and ease of use, is it worth making it the smallest evar?

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Eug
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Mar 13, 2009, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
Those photos really get across how small the thing is, the size of an apple earphone! To get the buttons in there too doesn't look like such a good idea now when it's that tiny.
Meh. Then they should just get rid of the thing altogether, and built it into the headphones.

And then watch the bitching really begin.
     
ajprice
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Mar 13, 2009, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Meh. Then they should just get rid of the thing altogether, and built it into the headphones.

And then watch the bitching really begin.
That will be the 4th gen. But there's a while to go before that, we've got anodized bright colour options, then anodized pastel colours, Product Red and an 8gb version to come first.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Hg2491
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Mar 13, 2009, 03:25 PM
 
I keep thinking the current iPod Shuffle as an accessory to the earphones.
     
amazing
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Mar 13, 2009, 04:14 PM
 
Imagine if the 3 buttons were on the front of the shuffle itself: You'd reach up to wherever you clipped it, your sweatshirt or your coat, and everything would be exceedingly fine. You could use whatever headphones you wanted, you'd be able to switch playlists while plugged into the car stereo without taking your eyes off the road, using the Voice playlist feature.

That would be brilliant design.

Putting them on the earbuds, and not even having an adapter included in the box, not even available in the Store, that makes Apple look small-minded and money-grubbing. They want to sell loads of earbuds, 'cause you're gonna break them or lose them--and the shuffle is pretty useless without them.

You can't use the iPhone's earbuds, they're incompatible.

Anybody know how much replacement earbuds are gonna cost?

Let's just hope this doesn't foreshadow changes to the Nano line!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 13, 2009, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
Anybody know how much replacement earbuds are gonna cost?
AFAIK, the ones with the microphone and remote (and that can fully control the iPod shuffle) are exactly the same price as the previously available standard earbuds.
     
B Gallagher
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Mar 13, 2009, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post
2. It clips on so as to not "fly around."
You mean the shuffle itself clips on, right? I'm talking about the controls on the headphone cable.
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[email protected]
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Mar 14, 2009, 08:14 AM
 
You cant connect It to any player or in the car, since it doesn't have controls.
Dumb, aint it?
     
Hg2491
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Mar 14, 2009, 09:09 AM
 
Not until someone releases an adapter.
     
Thorzdad
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Mar 14, 2009, 09:45 AM
 
Here's an interesting story I just saw on the EFF website about the new Shuffle.
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Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Here's an interesting story I just saw on the EFF website about the new Shuffle.

Quoted for truth:
Originally Posted by EFF
why have so many of the reviews of iPods failed to notice the proliferation of these Apple "authentication chips"? If it were Microsoft demanding that computer peripherals all include Microsoft "authentication chips" in order to work with Windows (or Toyota or Ford doing the same for replacement parts), I'd think reviewers would be screaming about it.
Why are people who know better so willing to give Apple so much power? These new proprietary headphones will no doubt make their way through the entire iPod line. How long before all iPod accessories require licensing?
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hg2491 View Post
Not until someone releases an adapter.
An adapter that will probably be obsolete in 2 generations.
     
Hg2491
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Mar 14, 2009, 11:09 AM
 
^ 1 generation*
     
Eug
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Quoted for truth:

Why are people who know better so willing to give Apple so much power? These new proprietary headphones will no doubt make their way through the entire iPod line. How long before all iPod accessories require licensing?
A great example of this video output for the iPhone. My cable worked fine, until Apple updated the iPhone OS. I bought a new cable which works fine but I suspect it will no longer work with iPhone 3.0.

However, I could do this 5 times and still spend only as much money as what Apple charges for their video cable. Total rip off.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
A great example of this video output for the iPhone. My cable worked fine, until Apple updated the iPhone OS. I bought a new cable which works fine but I suspect it will no longer work with iPhone 3.0.

However, I could do this 5 times and still spend only as much money as what Apple charges for their video cable. Total rip off.
Exactly. I've purchased 2 third party video cables (for less than $10 each) that Apple subsequently rendered useless to protect their $50 video cable.

I'm increasingly getting to the point where I won't be giving anymore of my money to Apple. I've already decided that my next laptop won't be from Apple.
     
turtle777
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Mar 14, 2009, 03:36 PM
 
Well, as much as this is a rip off, there are no real alternatives in terms of other MP3 players that come close to the ease of use and versatility of the iPod/iPod touch/iPhone ecosystem.

It's a blessing and a curse at the same time.

-t
     
slugslugslug
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Mar 14, 2009, 03:41 PM
 
^ What's the "blessing" part again? The ecosystem could exist just fine without the "authentication chip" nonsense. It does all make their allegedly-principled anti-DRM stand seem pretty disingenous.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 14, 2009, 03:44 PM
 
The "blessing" ensures that you're actually getting the best possible video quality, rather than some inferior resolution from a cable built to a three-year-old spec.

Of course, the real blessing is to Apple, as it makes sure their products look as good as possible.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Mar 14, 2009, 04:11 PM
 
I got to handle the new shuffle yesterday. It was clipped to an employees shirt, I asked to see it "sure, here you go" "could I see the controls also please?" "oh, were not allowed to have those on person, or give them to customers to see. to easy for them to just walk away." "oh" I handed it back to him.

what's the point of having them clipped onto the shirts if the customer can't fully try out the product? To show them off, and get the voice over technology into the public's ear, I guess. Still though, the shuffle is useless without any sort of controls on the body, and you can't even plug it into an external speaker set due to the port being taken up. edit: unless of course the controls still work through a splitter of some kind that sends information to the device and from. hmm.

pointless product update. at least you can still get the box shuffles in all of their colorful goodness.
     
ort888
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Mar 14, 2009, 04:18 PM
 
Plus all of the iPods in Apple stores are hooked up to Bose headphones. How are they even going to demo the shuffle? It's not sanitary for everyone to be putting the same earbuds in their ears.

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graxspoo
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Mar 14, 2009, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Still, it's annoying and unnecessary. It's not like removing the controls from the player provides some functional benefit.
Actually, I think this is one of those changes that some people are going to love, and some people are going to hate.

When I wear an iPod, I often have it under a layer of clothing, with the headphone wire coming up through the collar (don't like the wire wagging all over the place). So, this arrangement is actually better for me.

The voice-over feature adds functionality to the Shuffle: You were never able to navigate playlists before. Now you can. That's another win.

Also, this shuffle as twice the storage space of the previous $69 model for only $10 more. Sounds good to me. Not sure why they didn't want to include a cheaper model with 2GB... maybe they will later.

Overall, I'm not sure why people are freaking out so much about the buds. The Shuffle is a low-end product, and definitely not meant for the audiophile crowd. I got my mom a nano for Christmas and she was amazed at the sound quality from the Apple earbuds. For the average casual consumer the earbuds are fine... and as noted third party phones will be available, for those who care.

So, overall, I think the changes are positive. The shuffle is about being inexpensive, small, and simple. The new model is a better value (4GB for $79), smaller, simpler, and more capable (playlist navigation).
     
Hg2491
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Mar 14, 2009, 05:32 PM
 
Just found this online. This is how everyone wanted the Shuffle to be.

More on Flickr.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post
Actually, I think this is one of those changes that some people are going to love, and some people are going to hate.

When I wear an iPod, I often have it under a layer of clothing, with the headphone wire coming up through the collar (don't like the wire wagging all over the place). So, this arrangement is actually better for me.
Controls in the headphone line are nice, for exactly the reason you describe. But, a design that severely limits your choice of headphones (a highly personal choice) is not so great. Though, I'm certain headphone makers are cheering; now they can sell $50 headphones for $100.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hg2491 View Post
Just found this online. This is how everyone wanted the Shuffle to be.
More on Flickr.
They could have even added a few more buttons to that design so you wouldn't have to carry a manual around with your Shuffle.
     
Eug
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Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The "blessing" ensures that you're actually getting the best possible video quality, rather than some inferior resolution from a cable built to a three-year-old spec.
The cable resolution has not changed. It's still just SD. The authentication chip does absolutely nothing of real use, except to enforce Apple's HRM (hardware rights management).
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 14, 2009, 07:14 PM
 
The resolution output by iPods/iPhone has been changed, though, since the days of the iPod photo.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 14, 2009, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The resolution output by iPods/iPhone has been changed, though, since the days of the iPod photo.
In any case, the 3rd party video cables work fine until Apple updates the OS to render them useless. It's a good thing we have Apple to save us from ourselves.
     
@pplejaxkz
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Mar 14, 2009, 10:57 PM
 
I think it's nice looking, but I don't like the idea of not having any functional buttons on the actual iPod itself.
     
Simon
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Mar 15, 2009, 04:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The "blessing" ensures that you're actually getting the best possible video quality, rather than some inferior resolution from a cable built to a three-year-old spec.
Nonsense. If that were the case Apple would have a certification program, but not actively block anybody else. That way customers would get to decide for themselves what they want. But what Apple is actully doing is taking choice away from people and making sure they get to dictate what goes and what doesn't.

Apple's strategy is about dictating to the customer rather than letting the customer makes his/her own choice.

Of course, the real blessing is to Apple, as it makes sure their products look as good as possible.
Actually the real blessing is that Apple gets to make money off of every accessory sold. Be it theirs or a third-party's. All this does is take choice away from customers and increase prices. It's anti-competitive and it demonstrates that Apple thinks its customers are lemmings unable to judge for themselves. It flies in the face of everything Apple has said about 'putting the customer first' and how they want to see DRM disappear.

Even though I love Apple and its products it appears it's time for some serious competition and a few tough years. Obviously Apple has become too fat and too arrogant. Apple is actually becoming the MS of digital audio players.
     
Simon
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Mar 15, 2009, 04:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The resolution output by iPods/iPhone has been changed, though, since the days of the iPod photo.
You're trying to make up excuses for Apple. And people aren't falling for it.

If Eug's $10 cable is doing the job what right does Apple have to disable it? Apple can have a certification program to give buyers an idea of what they consider products that work especially well with the iPod/iPhone. But actively disabling competitors' hardware? Please. This is simply greedy Apple being anti-competitive. This is exactly the kind of crap we used to criticize MS for. So tell me, is it now suddenly ok just because it's Apple doing it?
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 15, 2009, 04:56 AM
 
HAY GUYS LOOK WHO THINKS I'M AN APOLOGIST.

I thought the "blessing" part made it abundantly clear that I don't agree with Apple's marketing policies in this instance.

'S okay though: Feel free to shoot the messenger.

And Simon: With all your striving to remove any personal aspects whatsoever from the interaction on these forums, I strongly suggest you start by working on your own tone. Have a nice day.
     
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Mar 15, 2009, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
Yes it is, at the expense of size. That's probably why Apple is keeping the 2nd gen Shuffle around. You choose what's important to you.
That's a total load of crap. Adding a button to a device takes up a very small amount of space. Have you looked at the power button for a white iBook G3? It's roughly the diameter of a dime and is just a lead on a circuit board. Apple easily could have added controls to the new shuffle - they chose not to in order to force buyers to buy an accessory just to use third-party headphones.

WRT VoiceOver, it's an interesting idea (I've been saying since my first iPod that it needs text-to-speech and voice controls), but I'm curious to know how it sounds. The mechanical, weird voice that text-to-speech generally provides is grating and annoying to me. My GPS can speak street names, but the voice is so irritating that I disabled it.

Also: Apple's hardware DRM really is getting out of hand. Their customers are allowing it to happen, because of the level of loyalty to the company. If Mac users quit buying Apple products for awhile due to their anti-consumer practices, they'd learn pretty quickly.

In the meantime, you can always get your illegally-reverse-engineered shuffle accessories for a few dollars on DealExtreme.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Mar 15, 2009 at 10:39 AM. )
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 15, 2009, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
It's anti-competitive and it demonstrates that Apple thinks its customers are lemmings unable to judge for themselves. It flies in the face of everything Apple has said about 'putting the customer first' and how they want to see DRM disappear.

Even though I love Apple and its products it appears it's time for some serious competition and a few tough years. Obviously Apple has become too fat and too arrogant. Apple is actually becoming the MS of digital audio players.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Also: Apple's hardware DRM really is getting out of hand. Their customers are allowing it to happen, because of the level of loyalty to the company. If Mac users quit buying Apple products for awhile due to their anti-consumer practices, they'd learn pretty quickly.
Exactly my thinking.
     
 
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