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Asymmetric Polarization or Cult of Personality (Page 2)
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 29, 2018, 08:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Thats the most terrifying thing I've ever heard.
They don't mean it. They would rather lie than admit how far the presidency has fallen thanks to their votes.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 30, 2018, 03:33 AM
 
I hope you're right.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
and how having a philanderer as a president is damaging to the moral structure of America.
JFK, Nixon, LBJ, Clinton, many many more....when have we not had a philanderer as president? The moral structure of America is not and has never been reflected by the men we put into that office. Anyone telling you different hasn't been paying attention.

JFK's exploits make Trump look absolutely tame by comparison, yet he is still revered as an american hero. Not to mention how much of a pile of human debris his father was.

Over lunch while I was out of town for work, my wife basically "came out" to my parents, telling them essentially that we don't hate gay people. My mom tried to get into it over Christmas about how "we believe what the Bible says" but I just nodded and smiled.
Isn't having these kinds of conversations a good thing?
     
Laminar
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Jan 30, 2018, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
JFK, Nixon, LBJ, Clinton, many many more....when have we not had a philanderer as president?
At least one comes to mind, but the "moral majority" aren't too fond of him. "A lot of presidents have cheated on their wives, so why should we care when a president cheats on his wife" is an extremely shitty argument.

The moral structure of America is not and has never been reflected by the men we put into that office.
I agree. It's an example of a weak argument made up by people looking for arguments to use against people they've already decided that they don't like. It has nothing to do with morality or integrity or principles or any of that.

These kind of arguments are extremely easy to turn around on the people making them when it becomes obvious that they don't actually hold the principles they claim to. It turns out my dad doesn't really care about fidelity or honesty or integrity.

Isn't having these kinds of conversations a good thing?
That depends on whether or not I want any presents for Christmas.
     
subego
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Jan 30, 2018, 04:34 PM
 
It’s actually rather unusual we had 16 years worth of Presidents seemingly able keep it in their pants.

I’ll also note, no matter what, the 43rd President was going to be someone who received comfort from outside their marriage.
     
Snow-i
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Jan 30, 2018, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
At least one comes to mind, but the "moral majority" aren't too fond of him. "A lot of presidents have cheated on their wives, so why should we care when a president cheats on his wife" is an extremely shitty argument.
Believe me I'm not excusing it. I'm just pointing out the context.

I agree. It's an example of a weak argument made up by people looking for arguments to use against people they've already decided that they don't like. It has nothing to do with morality or integrity or principles or any of that.

These kind of arguments are extremely easy to turn around on the people making them when it becomes obvious that they don't actually hold the principles they claim to. It turns out my dad doesn't really care about fidelity or honesty or integrity.
:thumbs: well said.

That depends on whether or not I want any presents for Christmas.
Wait until after the gifts have been opened
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 30, 2018, 07:13 PM
 
Having an affair is a personal matter. Maybe you and your spouse have grown apart, etc etc... Paying to have sex with a porn star then paying her to keep quiet about it when you have a large base of evangelical supposedly conservative Christian supporters is the reason people are making a fuss. Its not the infidelity, no-one with a brain cell would expect him to be a doting husband, its the hypocrisy behind his base being fine with it. Its not really him people are bitching about. He's just a tool.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 30, 2018, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
JFK, Nixon, LBJ, Clinton, many many more....when have we not had a philanderer as president?
I don't think the problem here is Trump's sex life, but the hypocrisy that goes with it. Clinton's sex life was used to try and push him out of office by people who claimed that character was more important than political convictions. That's a very convenient line of argumentation if you happen to also politically disagree with the President. (That also applies to President Trump and people who oppose Trump, of course.) By and large those same people are now all of a sudden ok with Trump in office, some evangelicals even going as far as giving Trump a mulligan for sleeping with a porn star and then paying her hush money. Pointing out the hypocrisy in that argument is fair.

Look, I come from a country where politicians's sex lives are kept out of politics in almost all circumstances and by people from all political stripes. (I'm only talking of consensual sexual behavior, of course. Sexual misconduct is another discussion entirely.) Ditto if some politicians were homosexual but did not want to come out (although that is mostly a thing of the past). The private lives of politicians should be off limits for the most part, unless they have a direct relation to their public lives. So pointing out hypocrisy is fair game.
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
The moral structure of America is not and has never been reflected by the men we put into that office.
Of course, the President represents the country, and electing a person with questionable morals reflects back badly on the electorate. Especially if all of the bad character traits are on display before the election. Although I don't think things like cheating on your wife are important for your public role. His affair with the porn star is a non-story to me, I'm not interested. What isn't a non-story are stories of sexual misconduct, though.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jan 30, 2018, 11:10 PM
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.b9399bb2f974
No doubt some of those Republicans now condoning Trump’s behavior will give the standard rebuttal: What about the Clintons? Well, Quinnipiac didn’t poll nationally during the Clinton presidency, but Gallup, during President Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in January 1999, asked a similar question. The number of Republicans back then saying Clinton did not provide good moral leadership, 91 percent, was similar to the 96 percent of Democrats who say Trump does not provide moral leadership today. The difference: Democrats disapproved of Clinton’s morality by 2 to 1 (65 to 33 percent), even as they overwhelmingly approved of his job performance. Only 16 percent of Republicans today say Trump does not provide moral leadership.
Caveat: It's been 20 years so you can't draw too large a conclusion on democrats moral consistency
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 3, 2018, 07:03 PM
 
This isn't a coup de gras but it's pretty damning.
GOP turns on FBI



Suddenly republicans don't like the FBI! But what has the FBI done to deserve it? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

For context:
http://www.people-press.org/2017/01/...ns-to-persist/


Obviously not apples to apples because different pollsters, but different pollsters doesn't account for a 30 point drop.

Here's the kicker – the pew survey compared approval at inauguration to late summer before the election. Both numbers are practically identical. That seems to say that Democrats, who I would say were not happy with how Comey handled the Hillary email letter, didn't let it affect how they perceived the FBI. And many blame him for costing the democrats the entire election!

That. Is. Crazy Pants.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 1, 2018, 10:57 PM
 
https://twitter.com/monkeycageblog/s...44576713859072


Which party is obsessed with identity politics? #asymmetricpolarization
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 6, 2018, 11:11 PM
 

     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 24, 2018, 10:53 PM
 
Cult of Personality:


McCain, the GOP nominee 10 years ago, who was just reelected two years ago, is despised by the people who voted for him.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 31, 2018, 07:52 PM
 


Getting closer...
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 15, 2018, 11:22 PM
 

Closer still...
     
 
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