[jmilt]

I posted this on the Mac L list and two discussion groups on Apple Support and got no response from any place. I also posted this on the MacFixit forums (no offense to anyone) and two people tried to help but to no avail. I mention this in case anyone wants to go there and check out all that has been tried. I am posting this here and in OS X forum as I am unsure if it is a hardware of software problem.

Mac OS X >> Troubleshooting Mac OS X >>No internet on Cube/OS X posted by jmilt (me)

I have searched through various resources and have found some people with similar problems but no solutions. So I am escalating to this list. Hopefully there is someone here who craves a challenge. I am posting also to OS X as I am unsure if theis is a hardware or software problem.

I have a G4 Cube and a G4 Tower both hooked up to a Netgear RT314 Gateway Router which is then connected to a cable modem (ATTBI), and using DHCP. I am running OS 9.1 on the tower and trying out OS X (10.1.3, I will be updating as soon as I can to 10.1.4) on the cube. I am able to connect to the internet with the tower but am NOT able to with the cube. If I run 9.2.1 on the Cube I CAN connect. If I run a cable directly from the cable modem to the Cube I CAN connect. If I borrow my father's iBook running OS X (10.1.3) and take the ethernet cable which is connected to the router out of the cube and plug it into the iBook I CAN connect. So it seems that there is a problem between the Router and the Cube. I can also set up file sharing between the Cube and the tower, however I am disconnected me after a few minutes. That is, the tower gets the message that file sharing has quit (or words to that effect).

So, tower OS 9 connects via router
Cube OS 9 connects via router
Cube OS X does NOT connect via router
Cube OS X connects but only if plugged directly to cable modem
Borrowed iBook OS X connects via router (using same cable that was hooked
to Cube)

Unfortunately, there is a little more to this story but I am unsure whether it is related or not. At one point I was unable to connect with the Cube to the internet under OS 9. I searched thru the discussion groups here at Apple and ran into the suggestion to use Apple's unsupported Apple Ethernet speed & duplex tool. Supposedly it only works with G3s but I tried it anyway and I was able to connect. The problem, and I barely understand any of this, is that somehow auto sensing is getting in the way and this patch allows one to select half duplex instead of full duplex. However, as mentioned above now I want to use OS X and I have the same problem. Or do I? That is, I have two questions. Is it the same problem under OS X as OS 9 and if so, is there a similar fix, or any fix at all?

Now this is really weird. Normally when I start IE, I will either immediately get a "Specified Server not found" or sometimes it will act as if it is trying to get to my home page but eventually will give me the specified server message. Other times I use Netscape 6 which will give me a message that my home page could not be found. However every once in awhile it actually works, well, almost. My home page (Yahoo) will start loading, however, it loads really, really, slowly and may only got about two thirds of the way when it times out. At someone's suggestion I went to Network, did "Manually using DHCP Server" and typed in the 192.168.0.4 address. Started IE and by golly again, it worked, but as before with Netscape, it opened very very slowly. This time I waited it out and after about 5 minutes I got the whole page. Then I clicked on a link but it never made it, I just got the spinning beach ball for about 10 minutes, after which I gave up. One time I tried the cube in the evening and this one time it worked even better than earlier, although still slow. I would estimate that it was about as fast, or as slow, as a regular dial up 56k modem. But it worked. No, or few, times did it time out or just spin until I couldn't stand it anymore. I was able to surf, as I said, at about the speed of a 56k modem. But that happened only once. Usually I get the server cannot be found message. Sometimes the page will load very, very slowly and usually doesn't make it all the way. And just this once was I able to get, like I said, about a 56Kbps speed.

And I still wonder if it has anything to do with the full and half duplex settings. When I first tried this in OS9 I couldn't connect until I was able to change the setting from 100 Full Duplex to 10 Half Duplex. Or something like that. Is there something similar I can do in OS X?

Thank you

Jonathan M. Miller

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: jmilt ]

[Sword of Orion]

Also try posting this in the "Networking" forum, or maybe on the forums over at http://www.macosxhints.com

[jmilt]

Originally posted by Sword of Orion:
<STRONG>Also try posting this in the "Networking" forum, or maybe on the forums over at http://www.macosxhints.com</STRONG>

Thanks for responding and thanks for the advice. As I mentioned in the original post I have posted this to the Mac OS X forum as well. If you are interested someone responded with what just may be the problem and which I suspected might be the problem all along. The cube is set to full duplex 100baseT which will not work. Evidently there is no way yet to change this setting. The only option I seem to have is to complain to Apple which I guess I will do.

But anyway, it might still be a good idea to post to the Networking forum and I probably will. So thanks again for the suggestion. Sounds like a good one. Although I was wondering if it is good form to post to so many forums. Will the list managers object? You don't have to answer that, I am just kind of wondering to myself.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: jmilt ]

[tramahound]

Originally posted by jmilt:
<STRONG> The cube is set to full duplex 100baseT which will not work. Evidently there is no way yet to change this setting. The only option I seem to have is to complain to Apple which I guess I will do. </STRONG>

i currently don't have broadband, but hope to one day soon. could you explain in more detail what you have discovered is wrong with your cube that is keeping it from accessing the internet? is this an inherent problem with cubes? thanks

[jmilt]

Originally posted by tramahound:
<STRONG>

i currently don't have broadband, but hope to one day soon. could you explain in more detail what you have discovered is wrong with your cube that is keeping it from accessing the internet? is this an inherent problem with cubes? thanks</STRONG>

I am probably not the one to answer your question. I barely understand this stuff at all. You may want to check out the other forum where I put this post

Mac OS X -&gt; OS X General Discussion, and look for the same topic, "No Internet on Cube w/OS S" (I just noticed that I mispelled "X").

I know that I had to change the settings with an unsupported Apple patch that changed my settings to half duplex, 10mbit. But that was under OS 9. And the funny thing is that the documentation that goes with it says that this patch does not work for G4s and in fact, I think, it says it is not needed. So basically, I know what I need to do, but I don't really understand this stuff. One of the posters, rantweasel, seems to know this stuff. Perhaps you can ask him. And another person responded who has a cube as well but is having no problems connecting to the internet and he/she reported that his cube is set to half duplex, 10mbit. So, no, it does not appear to be an inherent problem with cubes. And I mentioned somewhere that maybe I haven't looked in the right places but I have not seen much mention of this problem in all the places I've looked.

[Donlin]

Originally posted by jmilt:
<STRONG>

Thanks for responding and thanks for the advice. As I mentioned in the original post I have posted this to the Mac OS X forum as well. If you are interested someone responded with what just may be the problem and which I suspected might be the problem all along. The cube is set to full duplex 100baseT which will not work. Evidently there is no way yet to change this setting. The only option I seem to have is to complain to Apple which I guess I will do.

But anyway, it might still be a good idea to post to the Networking forum and I probably will. So thanks again for the suggestion. Sounds like a good one. Although I was wondering if it is good form to post to so many forums. Will the list managers object? You don't have to answer that, I am just kind of wondering to myself.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: jmilt ]</STRONG>

[Donlin]

Originally posted by jmilt:
<STRONG>

Thanks for responding and thanks for the advice. As I mentioned in the original post I have posted this to the Mac OS X forum as well. If you are interested someone responded with what just may be the problem and which I suspected might be the problem all along. The cube is set to full duplex 100baseT which will not work. Evidently there is no way yet to change this setting. The only option I seem to have is to complain to Apple which I guess I will do.

But anyway, it might still be a good idea to post to the Networking forum and I probably will. So thanks again for the suggestion. Sounds like a good one. Although I was wondering if it is good form to post to so many forums. Will the list managers object? You don't have to answer that, I am just kind of wondering to myself.

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: jmilt ]</STRONG>

Johnathan,
Have you prerformed a firmware update to your cube?
The latest is 4.1.9., and maybe a firmware update to your router.

Donlin

[jmilt]

Originally posted by Donlin:
<STRONG>

Johnathan,
Have you prerformed a firmware update to your cube?
The latest is 4.1.9., and maybe a firmware update to your router.

Donlin</STRONG>

Yes, well, at least I am pretty sure. One of the first things I did when I started playing with this cube (it is a fairly recent purchase) was to update the firmware. But that was quite awhile before I discovered this internet problem. So I just checked the Boot ROM version and it says 4.19f1. I think that is the latest. I also just updated to 10.1.4 in hopes that it may solve the problem. It did not. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. And let me know if this isn't the latest firmware. Or I could check myself, of course.

[Sword of Orion]

4.19f1 is the latest.

tramahound - don't get too worried yet, my Cube selects half duplex 10mbit cable modem ethernet automatically - but I'm not using a router, either...

(see the posts in the OS X forum for details.)

[joe]

Originally posted by tramahound:
<STRONG>
i currently don't have broadband, but hope to one day soon. could you explain in more detail what you have discovered is wrong with your cube that is keeping it from accessing the internet? is this an inherent problem with cubes? thanks</STRONG>

FWIW, it's not a problem with my cube. I've connected to DHCP broadband both directly with crossover cable and through my Linksys BEFS41 (4 port) router with a patch cable. I've also shared files and bandwidth with an iMac, PC notebook, and Amiga desktop.

jmilt:
This is only a guess, but I'd suggest either the NetGear router or Cube is in need of a firmware update (or maybe both). If it's possible to borrow a Linksys router from a friend to test, that could narrow things down since my Cube/Linksys/DHCP setup works here.

Also, I've had my Cube apart for a dual processor upgrade (and others). So I can say the Cube's ethernet port is on a separate card and not integrated into the motherboard. If it turns out to be the Cube ethernet port and firmware wont' fix it, then at least you're not going to have to replace the motherboard.

A final thought - maybe something got screwed up with your OSX install. After you check the firmware updates (Netgear and Cube) and test with a Linksys router, it might be worth your time try this:
Back up your data, format the hard drive (or partition), and install OSX on a clean drive (or partition). Be sure to do all the OSX updates too.

If you try all that and still can't get it to work (including on a Linksys router) then it's probably time to contact a local Apple service center. I hope it doesn't come to that. regards...........joe

[jmilt]

Originally posted by joe:
<STRONG>

This is only a guess, but I'd suggest either the NetGear router or Cube is in need of a firmware update (or maybe both).

Also, I've had my Cube apart for a dual processor upgrade (and others). So I can say the Cube's ethernet port is on a separate card and not integrated into the motherboard.

A final thought - maybe something got screwed up with your OSX install. After you check the firmware updates (Netgear and Cube) and test with a Linksys router, it might be worth your time try this:
Back up your data, format the hard drive (or partition), and install OSX on a clean drive (or partition). Be sure to do all the OSX updates too.

If you try all that and still can't get it to work (including on a Linksys router) then it's probably time to contact a local Apple service center. I hope it doesn't come to that. regards...........joe</STRONG>

Thanks for the response and suggestions. It is good to know about the ethernet card. I have applied the latest firmware update for the cube (4.1.9, I think, I am not at the cube to check but I think that is the latest). As far as the Netgear router, I went there briefly and checked around. They do not seem to be particularly Mac friendly. Seemed like all the firmware update files were .exe files. But as I said I was there really just briefly. Also, because of another problem, which was that I was having problems updating to 10.1.3 (I am up to 10.1.4 now) I did a software restore which I believe wipes out the data, but I could be wrong. This was after I discovered my internet problem so i was hoping I could fix both problems with the fresh installation and updates.

One of the advantages of posting my problem to several places is that there is a greater degree of helpful people. The problem is that I cannot always remember what I wrote, when, and where. With that in mind, I have managed to create a workaround. In a totally unrelated event, I found these modular T adapters with which one can plug into a port and make two connections. Kind of like those telephone t adapters. And it seems to work. So, being the lazy person that I am, I am going to leave it like that at least short term. I am collecting all the suggestions that have been made here and any where else and try them eventually. I just don't have the time during the week, and sometimes I have other things to do on weekends. But I do plan on trying your suggestions and others as I don't think my solution is a good one.

Thanks again.

[raferx]

To install .exe files on a router froma Mac use MacTFTP Client... available from VersionTracker. It works like a charm.

[ianxwin]

Hi Jonathan
Have you tried pinging the router to see if you have got that far?
You'll find a set of tools in network utility under utilities in applications.
Alternatively just open the terminal and type ping followed by the address of the router.
I am running a cube in a similar fashion, and had problems - until I entered the correct address for the ip address
Try and take it a bit at a time and work logically through all the variables. Check all your network values - at least you can match these against your notebook.

Also try a crossover cable if your current cable is straight (or vice versa) the ibook automatically senses the connection on the ethrnet port, and I'm not certain that the cube does.
Hope this helps
Ian

[joe]

Originally posted by ianxwin:
<STRONG>Also try a crossover cable if your current cable is straight (or vice versa) the ibook automatically senses the connection on the ethrnet port, and I'm not certain that the cube does.
Hope this helps.</STRONG>

Awesome feature - no more searching for crossover vs patch cable! I remember reading about that on Apple PowerBooks and G4 Towers, but I didn't realize it made it to the iBook.

Unfortunately the Cube doesn't have that feature. I have to use a crossover cable when I directly connect from my Cube to my cable modem. Also, I have to use a patch cable between my Cube and Linksys router. If I mix those up I'm not able to make a connection. A shame. I'm sure Apple has no intention of upgrading the Cubes ethernet daughterboard. But wouldn't it be cool to retrofit a Gigabit ethernet card with auto-sensing cable into a Cube .........joe

[jmilt]

I have been kind of busy lately, so please excuse my tardiness in responding. And we have company this weekend.

In regards to the crossover suggestion from ianxwin and to joe's experience with crossover and patch cables. I tried a crossover both directly from the cable modem and from the router. Neither situation worked. I am able to use just a regular patch cable from the modem either directly or by using that modular T adapter that I am now using. I find it kind of funny that I can do this and others can't. Just makes me think that my cube is just a wee bit different than others especially in regards to that full/half duplex stuff (such technical terms).

I did try pinging. But it was quite a while ago. It was something I either discovered on my own or some one mentioned it already. Like I said, it was a while ago so I don't remember exactly, but I don't think anything happened. I got whatever kind of message that would indicate that this isn't working. On the other hand, I am not proficient with pinging, so maybe I will try again sometime. But as I said, this modular t thing is working for now, and being lazy I will try some of the suggestions eventually, but as for now, my company awaits.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[jmilt]

Originally posted by raferx:
<STRONG>To install .exe files on a router froma Mac use MacTFTP Client... available from VersionTracker. It works like a charm.
</STRONG>

Thanks, I'll check that out.