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Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:22 PM

About Xbench, I have alot of background processes going on as I mentioned. My scores were higher before all of them but the point of the comparison was relative between both the machines. I didn't feel like stopping all the USB drivers etc.

Bad news on RTCW it appears the single player version is screwed up and won't launch on either machine. I'll need to reinstall it later so that wil have to wait.

AssassyN · Mar 18, 2003, 10:22 PM

EDIT: Double post due to MacNN's massive server backlog thanks to the 17" frenzy

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:25 PM

DVD playback is beautiful on the 17" and is comparable to the Tibook. Sound quality and volume is very close. I guess the 17" is a little louder with both on max volume setting and the Tibook is a little tinnier in sounding. Bass is better on 17" but slightly.

Anything else anyone wants me to check out?

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:27 PM

The 17" has the sizzling effect going on when you listen to the keyboard. Even though it only has one ram sodimm of 512mb.

If you don't know what the sizzling is, most newer powerbooks have this very faint sizzling sound if you listen to the keyboard. It is apparently innocous and also listening to the keyboard too much may get you thrown into a special building that makes you wear a white robe that holds your hands behind your back.

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:30 PM

I have to reiterate the 17" is silent. I mean no noise. A very very very faint hard drive spinning sound that is just ... I mean the thing is silent.

AssassyN · Mar 18, 2003, 10:33 PM

Wow, you've answered basically every question I can think of...

I still just want to know about the performance of the machine in dealing w/ 3D games like RtCW, Quake III, etc.

Also, how fast is the boot-up time, from being shut-down to being ready to use inside the OS?

Too, have you used the machine while in "Energy Saving" mode which downclocks it to 667Mhz and disables the L3 cache? Huge difference? Still a very fuctionable machine?

Had time to judge battery life whatsoever?

*trying to think of more*

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:33 PM

The keyboard is lighting up now, a whitish/blue color. If you look at the keyboard from a shallow angle like a low vantage point from the trackpad towards the keyboard you see the white light, almost like a dim flood light emanating light from everywhere beneath the keyboard.

Battery is fully charged, I am going to unplug the power and run the battery down to involuntary shutdown.

No real activity on the computer but at max performance with bluetooth & airport on.

Time now is 6:33PM

JayTi · Mar 18, 2003, 10:34 PM

Yeah, thats one thing I love about it--comes in handy when editing in FCP and the like. Some people may want to know about iTunes frame rates, I get between 37-50 fps in my 17" w/ 1 GB RAM (thats with other things running and the like of course)

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:34 PM

Battery indicator shows 2:50 to start with right after AC power removal

AssassyN · Mar 18, 2003, 10:34 PM

Thought of more! In launching common apps, like iTunes, Internet Explorer, etc...how fast is it in launching those apps?

JayTi · Mar 18, 2003, 10:38 PM

Karim and I can compare...Powerbooks

Here its
IE- 2.5 bounces
Safari- 1 bounce
iTunes- 3 bounces, 4 with iPod hooked up
iCal - 4 bounces
iSync- 2 bounces
Photoshop-5 bounces
Mail- 3 bounces
Maya- 4 bounces

Dock magnification with genie effect w/ dock taking up the entire screen is still very smooth (only lagged a few times in maya right during the end of the minimize...open GL hard at work!)
(This is with 1 GB RAM too)

Dougmc · Mar 18, 2003, 10:38 PM

I'm sure I speak for many others when I add my thanks to you for letting us in on your first day experiences. For me, it's not so much the technical specs, or even freakish packing anomoly that you experienced (blank HD and a "test" disk in the CD drive from Apple?); it's the reassurance that the likelyhood of my machine actually "working" when it arrives is truly possible.

Until this evening, reading your reports, this machine has only existed on paper. Well, and the assorted plastic-spinning-display-thingy in Apple stores.

Today it has become real!

To borrow a line from Dr. Frankenstein: "It's Alive!"

Thanks again.

Patcarla · Mar 18, 2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Karim:
I have to reiterate the 17" is silent. I mean no noise. A very very very faint hard drive spinning sound that is just ... I mean the thing is silent.

That's very good news. Apple finally did something with the fan issue..

arekkusu · Mar 18, 2003, 10:42 PM

Here's a question, try this out.

1) Turn on Universal Access "Zoom In"
2) get something high-contrast on screen like a white window on a black desktop.
3) Zoom in.
4) Move the mouse back and forth horizontally.

Do the window edges tear like crazy, or stay together?

If you do this on your TiBook running either 10.2.3 or 10.2.4 it tears like crazy. I'm curious if the Geforce-based AlBook works correctly.

DVD Plaza · Mar 18, 2003, 10:44 PM

I too would like to thank Karim for the live coverage, allowing us to share the initial experience with you whilst we eagerly wait to go through it ourselves

Simian · Mar 18, 2003, 10:46 PM

Yes thank you

I can't wait. On or before the 26th is killing me.

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:56 PM

Ahhh yes the bouncemarks, a performance parameter only a MAC user could use, love and understand:

IE- 2 bounces (it's a miracle I haven't deleted this yet)
Safari- 3.5 bounces but I'm running a non-public version
iTunes- 2 bounces
iCal - 4 bounces
Photoshop-5 bounces
Mail- 2 bounces
Maya- Don't have it.

ps- Virtual PC seems a little faster. Will have to wait till I get 1GB in the machine to really be sure it is running at full speed. It's nice to be able to have a 1024x768 screen and still keep it in windowed mode without having to scroll. Couldn't do that on the Tibook.

Eug · Mar 18, 2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Karim, with Eug's additions:

Code:
Test    Tibook	Albook  Diff      Eug
Overall  79.71   93.84  18%      90.40
CPU      98.36  110.85  13%     117.94
Memory   98.58  116.73  18%      98.03
System   93.86  114.11  22%     100.53
Quartz  117.07  120.47   3%     125.57
OpenGL   96.47  123.92  28%      99.73
UI      103.52  108.41   5%     113.19
Disk     43.66   45.59   4%      61.33

Your overall score for the TiBook doesn't seem to make sense. My scores are similar to issa's.

The main advantages of the 17" AluBook vs. the TiBook are the memory (not surprisingly) and the OpenGL performance. (Dunno how this synthetic bench translates to QE or gaming, but I'm guessing it does provide a bit of a boost.)

By the way, what is you SuperDrive UJ-815 firmware revision?

Originally posted by JayTi:
Woah, thats blatent.

Huh?

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by arekkusu:
Here's a question, try this out.

1) Turn on Universal Access "Zoom In"
2) get something high-contrast on screen like a white window on a black desktop.
3) Zoom in.
4) Move the mouse back and forth horizontally.

Do the window edges tear like crazy, or stay together?

If you do this on your TiBook running either 10.2.3 or 10.2.4 it tears like crazy. I'm curious if the Geforce-based AlBook works correctly.

Looks fairly smooth to me..

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:02 PM

Remember I have quite a few background processes going, but they're on both machines. The tests are only meant to show the realtive strengths between the two not for comparison to the average machine with a stock configuration delivered from the factory.

I don't want to go in and disable all my USB drivers and such.

The firmware is DWDB

Patcarla · Mar 18, 2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
I too would like to thank Karim for the live coverage, allowing us to share the initial experience with you whilst we eagerly wait to go through it ourselves

Yep..That was great Karim.

Eug · Mar 18, 2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Karim:
Remember I have quite a few background processes going, but they're on both machines. The tests are only meant to show the realtive strengths between the two not for comparison to the average machine with a stock configuration delivered from the factory.

I don't want to go in and disable all my USB drivers and such.

The firmware is DWDB

What USB drivers are you running?

Anyways, with your DWDB that makes two now.

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:13 PM

My impression of the screen size is:

Looks & feels MUCH bigger although it really isn't a huge differnce spec wise.

It just feels big. Almost Like I'm using an external flat panel screen, I'm not used to such a large screen in a laptop, and neither is anyone else

Width of the screen feels significantly larger, height seems less so and the realities of the specs jive with this.

maelstrom65 · Mar 18, 2003, 11:14 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to Karim for all the info and first hand impressions. Much appreciated. Now that I have my tracking number, it's only a matter of a couple days before I can start playing with my PB.

Cheers

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:15 PM

And now for a commerical message:

Carbon Copy Cloner makes it so easy to migrate from one powerbook to another that I have to mention and plug it. I'm sending my money in, this is the second time I've used it and it has saved me SO MUCH TIME from what I had to do before. Anyone moving from one Powerbook to another I highly recommend it!

It will turn a 3 hour manual process into a 1 hour set and forget.

AssassyN · Mar 18, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by maelstrom65:
Just wanted to say thanks to Karim for all the info and first hand impressions. Much appreciated. Now that I have my tracking number, it's only a matter of a couple days before I can start playing with my PB.

Cheers

You got your tracking number man?! CONGRATS!!! When's the expected delivery date?

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
What USB drivers are you running?

Anyways, with your DWDB that makes two now.

I've got the following non-standard background procs:

Tablet Driver (Intuos tablet)
EYE TV
FaxSTF backgrounders
Shuttlepro
Default folder
Mouseworks
F10 launcher
Sony Ericcson clicker
palm desktop
Magic menu
Timbuktu
Stickybrain
PGP

And maybe a few others I can't think of right now.

jasong · Mar 18, 2003, 11:24 PM

How does the 17" feel when you pick up or carry it around? Does it feel too big to be a laptop? I waffled in the end and cancelled my TiBook order to wait and see what happened with the 17".

I am a web designer so the extra screen space is really useful, but because of the nature of my company I travel frequently. Do you feel that the 17" would fit in an airplane seat if you are bigger than say, MiniMe? I would be upgrading from a Pismo so the weight would be the same, just the dimensions would be different.

I'll be at the Cambridge Side Galleria this weekend, so I'll check out their demo unit and see for myself, but I am curious about what other people think.

-- Jason

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:33 PM

Imagine carrying a 1" thick clipboard, that's about the dimensions. No, it doesn't feel to big. Yes, the weight does feel significantly heavier than the 1ghz tibook (specs wise it is about 1lb heavier or 25%).

Flying on planes, which I do alot, would not be to big a problem. As I mentioned the screen height is a hair widths difference from the 15" which is what is going to affect you if your not in First and someone reclines their seat.

Width wise it will not fit on most airline tray tables, but I just use my lap anyways.

badnewsblair · Mar 18, 2003, 11:34 PM

You have to really cover up the the grill. When I did it,it took some repositioning.

WE WANT PICTURES!

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:36 PM

Fit and finsh is great. No warping, bending, misalignment etc. Hinge stiffness is quite smoother than the tibook.

Because of the size of the powerbook you have to watch how you hold it, you have to get the center held well because of the width of it. It would be easy to drop it if you didn't hold it from the center because of the arm-moment from CG.

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:37 PM

OK, Pics coming up in a few minutes...

Karim · Mar 18, 2003, 11:41 PM

General overview of Tibook vs Albook 17"

The Tibook is a great machine. It set a standard that most have not yet even approached. I would not at all be unhappy if I didn't get the 17", the Tibook 1GHZ with Superdrive was a great machine.

The Albook 17" is like polishing everything to the max. It is such a refinement that you just love it. It is not a quantum leap in features but it is a quantum leap in refinement.

Ps- I know it sounds like I'm talking in circles, but you sort of get the drift --- I know, maybe I should work for Amazon online sales

AssassyN · Mar 18, 2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Karim:
OK, Pics coming up in a few minutes...

Must....have....patience....

Daniel Bayer · Mar 18, 2003, 11:50 PM

Bounces??

My gig-ti does itunes in one and photoshop 7 in two...:-)

Bench averages 86-89 on the toshiba drive.

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:01 AM

You have to make sure you do your bounce tests on a newly started computer. You can't start it stop it then start it again and get good numbers.

BTW, boot up times from power on to login screen is around 50 seconds.

Pics very soon.

AssassyN · Mar 19, 2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by Karim:
You have to make sure you do your bounce tests on a newly started computer. You can't start it stop it then start it again and get good numbers.

BTW, boot up times from power on to login screen is around 50 seconds.

Pics very soon.

Argh, 50 seconds! Maybe it's just "switcher-shock", but my WinXP goes from totally shut down to fully booted & ready to work in about 18-20 seconds!

Ah well, if that's the worst that happens, it'll be quite alright

issa · Mar 19, 2003, 12:16 AM

Argh, 50 seconds! Maybe it's just "switcher-shock", but my WinXP goes from totally shut down to fully booted & ready to work in about 18-20 seconds!

Most PowerBook users rarely cold-boot and rarely find it necessary to shut the machine down. Even restarts are usually necessary only after doing some software updates. It takes a mere couple of seconds to wake from sleep, and that's normally all you'll wait to get to work.

7Macfreak · Mar 19, 2003, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Argh, 50 seconds! Maybe it's just "switcher-shock", but my WinXP goes from totally shut down to fully booted & ready to work in about 18-20 seconds!

Ah well, if that's the worst that happens, it'll be quite alright

um.. if it helps.. you can leave macintosh on for days.. so 50 seconds boot up time, in lets say 2 weeks is no big deal really.

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:18 AM

Here are some pictures:

These are heavily compressed Jpegs to make the file sizes reasonable for everyone. The slight blurriness is because of it. If people insist I can put up super hi-res versions.

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0771o.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0772o.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0773o.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0774o.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0775o.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0776o.jpg

javabeans · Mar 19, 2003, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by issa:
Most PowerBook users rarely cold-boot and rarely find it necessary to shut the machine down. Even restarts are usually necessary only after doing some software updates. It takes a mere couple of seconds to wake from sleep, and that's normally all you'll wait to get to work.

This is cool...I got sick of XP going into hybenation and once you wake it up..its slow as hell...once I get my 17" PB...the beige box will be my foot-rest!

AssassyN · Mar 19, 2003, 12:21 AM

How much juice does is suck down on the battery by just leaving it in sleep mode? While changing classes, going from a class to the library, etc., is it most efficient to leave it just in sleep mode or shut it completely down?

And btw, HI-RES PICS!!!!!!

But thanks SO much for these!! *drool!*

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:23 AM

The sleep questions will take time to answer. I'll get back to ya on that one.

BTW, PC's make great door stops. I mean before you ultimately throw them in the garbage.

JayTi · Mar 19, 2003, 12:27 AM

Sleep does dreain the battery more than I'd like it to, but only very slightly. I'll find if I'm walking around for 20 minutes or so the battery may drop one or two %.

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:28 AM

These are the hi-res versions of pictures, if your on a dialup - use the earlier posted versions because each one will take close to 10 minutes to download:

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0771.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0772.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0773.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0774.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0775.jpg

http://www.kkinvestments.com/other/IMG_0776.jpg

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:29 AM

The hi-res ones may not be online for about 5 minutes because all of sudden my server load just shot through the roof!

BrettOZ · Mar 19, 2003, 12:30 AM

Hey karim

I love how a guy can slam the PC community when he has the pinnacle Apple product at his finger tips!

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:36 AM

Thanks for the encouragment, but really I've used computers for decades now, and I haven't (as far as I'm concerned) SLAMMED PC's on MACNN. Believe me, I could but I figure everyone here knows everything I'd say, so if I was ever bored enough, and maybe in traction, I wouldn't really bother to go to a PC forum and tell them how f*cked up Bill and his BS was....

But then, I still USE PC's, but I make sure they have been denigrated to really mundane tasks that shames them

AssassyN · Mar 19, 2003, 12:44 AM

Ya know, in re-reading this, you're extremely lucky to have that Test Disc! That's Apple Confidential! You just accidentally got yourself a niceee souvinier!

Karim · Mar 19, 2003, 12:49 AM

Your right, it was a nice souvenir. In a funny way it connected me to the birth of my new baby. This Sh*t goes to your head, beware.

Whoever is getting one of these is *REALLY* lucky. Your just going to have to deal with all the attention. But remember, the more switchers "WE" get the better products ALL of us will get. So SHOW OFF your stuff!