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RIP AirPower
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Thorzdad
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Mar 29, 2019, 05:28 PM
 
— THERE IS NO GRAVITY —
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And.reg
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Mar 29, 2019, 06:00 PM
 
And now for the real reason, from marketing (my rumor):

"People would rather use their cheap 5W-10W wireless chargers or buy a few, than to spend the $100+ that we would charge for one of ours - and we can't complete with that at this time, or likely ever..."
     
turtle777
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Mar 29, 2019, 09:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
And now for the real reason, from marketing (my rumor):

"People would rather use their cheap 5W-10W wireless chargers or buy a few, than to spend the $100+ that we would charge for one of ours - and we can't complete with that at this time, or likely ever..."
Nah. No way.

When has overcharging customers EVER been an issue at Apple ?
They must have truly hit engineering barriers that even money couldn't fix.

This is a rare event - Apple having to admit defeat.

If it had been possible, they would have made it and sold it at a loss, just to save face.

-t
     
OreoCookie
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Mar 29, 2019, 10:19 PM
 
I have to agree with turtle, I think we should take Apple at face value that they have just bitten off too much than they can chew. Recently, Apple has gotten into the habit of pre-announcing things and being more and more late. For most things, Apple used to announce a product and say very soon you can order it (sometimes right after the presentation, sometimes two weeks later), and within week or two after orders open, shipments will begin. Given that Apple mentions AirPower on the AirPod 2's boxes from what I understand, this must have been a very recent decision.

Now they have pre-announced the AirPods which were later than expected (perhaps not technically), the Mac Pro has been pre-announced with no shipping date in sight (IMHO it would be a bad sign if they cannot make a definitive announcement at WWDC), the Apple Watch was pre-announced, etc. Apple should just go back and just announce things when they are truly ready to ship.
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And.reg
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Mar 30, 2019, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Nah. No way.
Yes way. It's the truth.

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
When has overcharging customers EVER been an issue at Apple ?
Many examples come to mind:
20th Anniversary Mac
iPad Pro with a measly 6 GB RAM
how about the ANCIENT Mac Pros

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
They must have truly hit engineering barriers that even money couldn't fix.
False. The article quoted Apple which clearly stated:

AirPower will not achieve our high standards

Nothing to do with whether they have enough money. For example, wireless charging pads that have multiple coils already exist for around $40:

https://www.amazon.com/LXORY-Dual-Wi...dp/B0788D2KFG/


Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
This is a rare event - Apple having to admit defeat.
While I appreciate the mild sarcasm, the reason that Apple gives for the cancellation is still not the primary reason for admitting defeat.


Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
If it had been possible, they would have made it and sold it at a loss, just to save face.
This worked for Microsoft's original xBox, because it put Microsoft squarely in focus in a very rich market at the time, which then led to more powerful consoles thereafter. (Microsoft also saved face when they recalled their xBox power supplies...) Apple's Airpower mat in comparison would have hardly made a dent.
( Last edited by And.reg; Mar 30, 2019 at 10:29 AM. )
     
gorickey
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Mar 30, 2019, 10:29 AM
 
This is rather shocking to be honest. Apple, with more money and "better engineers" than anybody else, cannot find a way to make a wireless charger? Meanwhile, competition everywhere has them and Samsung has figured out how to PowerShare straight from their high end phone. You would think, at a minimum, the next iPhones will share that feature and if so, could be the reason why the mat concept never made a ton of sense. The mat needed to be plugged in and then you place devices on top of it, the same concept would be true with an iPhone that can PowerShare to the Apple Watch and AirPods.
     
And.reg
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Mar 30, 2019, 10:29 AM
 
Having said that, I've noticed a pattern in Apple's repair services, especially with the Pro Macbook sticky keys, that if Apple saves face on services, it's not until a lot of people have been complaining. Apple's solution was to put a giant condom in the keyboard membrane. (Oh, and by the way, let's not forget that this condom inhibits air flow, so heat from CPU/GPU stays trapped, which is partly why the "i9" throttles down so much, so you don't get that much extra bang for your buck.) It's not hard to follow the money trail.

You don't need to be a "genius" to figure it out - oh speaking of geniuses, shout out to the "Genius Bar," they just run basic diagnostics and send your computer away to get fixed. Quite the contrast to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLTNfIaL5YI&t=175


In all fairness, cancelling the Airpower mat makes sense at this point, both practically and financially.
     
mindwaves
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Mar 30, 2019, 02:14 PM
 
Samsung’s PowerShare is mainly a marketing ploy. First it is super slow and takes charge from one phone to another. If you are traveling with someone else, both of your phones are probably dead or low on battery anyway, so it is useless. Second I always like to look at my phone even when charging which I can’t do with either phone when charging. The only good use case for it and only kind of is charging wireless charging AirPods or similar because it will be relatively fast and has low battery capacity. Can bring one charging a cable instead of two..
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turtle777
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Mar 30, 2019, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Many examples come to mind:
20th Anniversary Mac
iPad Pro with a measly 6 GB RAM
how about the ANCIENT Mac Pros


You are making MY point. They DID ship these items, even though they were expensive (and arguably, not the best from a technology perspective).
They didn't just cancel the product and never ship.

Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
False. The article quoted Apple which clearly stated:

AirPower will not achieve our high standards

Nothing to do with whether they have enough money.
Again, I don't think you get the issue. And you are twisting my words.

Surely, Apple wants to ship products that work.
But unlike other companies, what Apple defines as "work" has a much higher level of standard than a Samsung, for example.
(see Mindwave's comment above.)
"High Standards" clearly refers to technical issues, not economic issues.

YOU said they canceled for economic / business reasons. There is NO proof or comments about that at ALL.

-t
     
subego
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Mar 30, 2019, 09:31 PM
 
     
Doc HM
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Mar 31, 2019, 08:06 AM
 
To be fair to Apple, while other manufacturers do make multi coil pads, they were committed to the ability to put any device anywhere on the pad and it charge correctly while the others have specific areas for each power draw. Which is a fairly Apple way to go.
That said I'm surprised they couldn't make it work. I heard heat was the main issue.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego
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Mar 31, 2019, 08:12 AM
 
The rumor I heard was 30+ coils.

Isn’t normal, like 3?
     
OAW
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Apr 1, 2019, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Nothing to do with whether they have enough money. For example, wireless charging pads that have multiple coils already exist for around $40:

https://www.amazon.com/LXORY-Dual-Wi...dp/B0788D2KFG/
You are correct there are plenty of cheap wireless charging pads that have "multiple coils". But all of the options of which you speak require the user to place the device precisely on the "sweet spot" on top of a coils in order to charge at full speed ... if at all. So users have to constantly fuss with it. Roll over in bed at night and accidentally bump you nightstand and make your device shift a millimeter and you can wake up to discover it hasn't charged at all. So simply having "multiple coils" was not the value proposition of AirPower. What Apple set out to do with their product was to eliminate the hassle of finding the "sweet spot". Just place your device quite literally anywhere on the charging pad and it along with the software would automatically charge every device how it needed to be done. The problem is they weren't able to overcome the thermal management issues that come with this approach. One can legitimately try to make the case that this differentiating feature may not be worth the added expense for the majority of potential consumers. But it's not legitimate to imply that Apple was simply trying to sell a product that was functionality equivalent to some cheap $40 wireless charging pad at exorbitant prices simply because of an Apple logo slapped onto it.

OAW
     
reader50
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Apr 1, 2019, 10:13 PM
 
Coils were probably getting induction from neighboring coils. If overlapping coils were used, that would make it worse. To work properly, you might have to install (multiple?) switch breaks in every coil, to kill the eddy currents. The pad would regularly test each coil to see if it syncs with a device needing charge. No device - open the switch(es).

Such a design would need a lot of extra components.
     
mindwaves
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Apr 2, 2019, 05:16 AM
 
No loss for me. I like wired charging anyway and far more portable.
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subego
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Apr 2, 2019, 09:12 AM
 
Porque no los dos?
     
Laminar
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Apr 2, 2019, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
You are correct there are plenty of cheap wireless charging pads that have "multiple coils". But all of the options of which you speak require the user to place the device precisely on the "sweet spot" on top of a coils in order to charge at full speed ... if at all. So users have to constantly fuss with it. Roll over in bed at night and accidentally bump you nightstand and make your device shift a millimeter and you can wake up to discover it hasn't charged at all.
I mean, that's a litttle bit of hyperbole. I bought a charging stand on Amazon over a year ago for $22 (now selling for $6, lol). It's got a wide range where the phone will charge, and the stand style means it's hard to incorrectly place the phone, but I can still easily see it from my bed. No constant fussing, no bumping. There's nothing that Apple could do that would make a better stand for me, but I'm only charging one device and I prefer it propped up. Those that want to charge multiple devices on a flat surface are a different animal obviously.
     
subego
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Apr 2, 2019, 05:03 PM
 
I have a (Belkin) flat charger. It’s got a ring of grabby rubber on it, so no real bump issues, but is a bit fussy about where the phone is placed.

It has a little LED which lights up when it’s charging, so you can be sure it’s on the right place.

Still kicks the crap out of trying to two-hand a connector when lying in bed.

Especially when I’m drunk.
     
Laminar
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Apr 2, 2019, 08:44 PM
 
Now imagine people trying to do that with Micro USB Android phones while iPhones have had Lightning for the past 7 years.
     
subego
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Apr 2, 2019, 11:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Now imagine people trying to do that with Micro USB Android phones while iPhones have had Lightning for the past 7 years.
You know, this never occurred to me.

The micro USB devices I have the most of are 2nd gen Echo Dots. When I have to reboot one, getting the connector back in is almost frigging impossible.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Apr 3, 2019, 06:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I have to agree with turtle, I think we should take Apple at face value that they have just bitten off too much than they can chew. Recently, Apple has gotten into the habit of pre-announcing things and being more and more late. For most things, Apple used to announce a product and say very soon you can order it (sometimes right after the presentation, sometimes two weeks later), and within week or two after orders open, shipments will begin. Given that Apple mentions AirPower on the AirPod 2's boxes from what I understand, this must have been a very recent decision.

Now they have pre-announced the AirPods which were later than expected (perhaps not technically), the Mac Pro has been pre-announced with no shipping date in sight (IMHO it would be a bad sign if they cannot make a definitive announcement at WWDC), the Apple Watch was pre-announced, etc. Apple should just go back and just announce things when they are truly ready to ship.
I personally think Apple’s in trouble. I mean it’s fake trouble, because they’re one of the biggest market cap companies and have so much cash they could spend forever. But it’s crystal clear to me that Tim Cook is a complete disaster from a product standpoint. The entire Apple product lineup is a hot sloppy mess, and has steadily been trending in that direction since Cook took over. If you’re someone who believes that Apple’s incredible success stemmed from a focused and elegant lineup of essential products, then by contrast the current throw-it-at-the-wall approach is confusing disappointment.
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Laminar
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Apr 3, 2019, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You know, this never occurred to me.

The micro USB devices I have the most of are 2nd gen Echo Dots. When I have to reboot one, getting the connector back in is almost frigging impossible.
My Galaxy S5 had an extra wide USB 3.0 cable that was freaking terrible to plug in.

People bitch and moan about Apple's "cash-grab" proprietary connector, but Lightning is reversible, fast-charging, universal across phones and tablets, and predated the first USB-C phones by 3 years. Even now, "USB-C is a mess," and mixing different brands of chargers and cables gets you wildly varying results.

Before USB 3.0 enabled up to 900mA charging, micro-USB was limited to 500mA while Lightning could do 1A to a phone and 2+A to a tablet depending on the wall wart. Samsung had to use a dock-style connector with its tablets because 500mA wasn't enough to charge a phone with its screen on, let alone an entire tablet.
     
Laminar
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Apr 3, 2019, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
The entire Apple product lineup is a hot sloppy mess, and has steadily been trending in that direction since Cook took over.
My dad mentioned this weekend that he's ready to replace his 8 year old Unibody MacBook. I had no idea what the delineation between MacBook/Air/Pro was, none of it makes sense. And if he wants a 15" display, it's $2400+ minimum.

I can get a 2017 refurb Air with a 256GB SSD and real USB ports for $1020. Computers are already confusing enough, we don't need to throw USB-C dongles into the mix.
     
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Apr 3, 2019, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I personally think Apple’s in trouble. I mean it’s fake trouble, because they’re one of the biggest market cap companies and have so much cash they could spend forever. But it’s crystal clear to me that Tim Cook is a complete disaster from a product standpoint. The entire Apple product lineup is a hot sloppy mess, and has steadily been trending in that direction since Cook took over. If you’re someone who believes that Apple’s incredible success stemmed from a focused and elegant lineup of essential products, then by contrast the current throw-it-at-the-wall approach is confusing disappointment.
I agree, up to a point.

I have said this before, but I think that up until the end of 2016, Apple's Mac product plan was to have two product lines, iMac and Macbook, that stretched all the way from consumer to pro with gradual changes. At the end of 2016, they backed down from this plan and scrambled to correct. Apple is still correcting, and it shows.

It also seems that Apple has gone all in on beautiful displays on everything. They're not only Retina (2x), they're now up to 3x pixels on a lot of the iPhones and they have to be wide gamut as well. That's pretty, but also expensive. I would be totally fine with an iMac with 3840*2160 24" and plain ol' sRGB, but that isn't happening. There is a 21.5" 4096*2304 with DCI-P3, and then for the peasants there is a 1080p display on a very weak computer. Do you have to go all the way on every computer? DCI-P3 in particular doesn't seem to bring a lot of benefit to most customers. To say nothing of the choice to make six-core standard but stay on spinning disks - that is just infuriating.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Brien
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Apr 4, 2019, 08:38 PM
 
I don’t think Apple cares about average consumers.
     
   
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