[NYCFarmboy]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

He ruined his own life.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

The public applauding of prison rape makes me absolutely sick.

I find it difficult to feel too much compassion for serial murderers, molesters, and rapists but people who have commited no violent crimes certainly do not deserve sexual torture and inhuman degredation as punishment. It is against the basic tenants of human rights. Prisoners lose certain legal rights, but they certainly should not lose human rights. This is a *civilized* country, remember?

n::



C'mon folks, even Bush signed the Federal Prison Rape Elimination Act.

don't commit crimes

[Zimphire]

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

The public applauding of prison rape makes me absolutely sick.

I find it difficult to feel too much compassion for serial murderers, molesters, and rapists but people who have commited no violent crimes certainly do not deserve sexual torture and inhuman degredation as punishment. It is against the basic tenants of human rights. Prisoners lose certain legal rights, but they certainly should not lose human rights. This is a *civilized* country, remember?

n::

C'mon folks, even Bush signed the Federal Prison Rape Elimination Act.

Agreed. Lots of people who get thrown away for very small crimes, on three strikes or mandatory minimum sentencing laws. Lots of innocent people who get thrown in prison, it happens everyday in this country. The folks cheering gay rape obviously have never had a loved one in the justice system, or, God forbid an innocent loved one wrongly convicted.

[maxintosh]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

don't commit crimes

Because everyone who is convicted is guilty?
Because those that are guilty of even petty crimes are deserving of torture and sexual degredation?
Because torture and sexual degredation are not contrary to the basic principles of 21st century American justice?

[Sir Arthur Dent]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Your meter needs adjusted.

Your grammar needs to got fixed.

[Link]

Originally Posted by Will V.

However, they could be convicted (fined) of driving vehicles over the weight limit. I don't think the ACLU would be able to do much about that. Weight limits have been in place for years, and they are there for a very clear reason. Just because General Motors and Ford, et. al., sell vehicles that exceed the weight limit on some residential roads, doesn't give people the right to break the law and drive those vehicles on those roads.

What if you own a >6000lb vehicle and the limit is in effect on a road that you HAVE to take to get home? That's where it begins to get silly.

The law was obviously to limit *huge trucks* from going down certain roads, the thing is that these laws don't make any sense at all.. would you pay 3x more for UPS to stop using their trucks but have small vans to bring packages to your door? That's asinine.

While I'm against people getting tax breaks on SUVs, this is ridiculous, law or not.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Link

What if you own a >6000lb vehicle and the limit is in effect on a road that you HAVE to take to get home? That's where it begins to get silly.

The law was obviously to limit *huge trucks* from going down certain roads, the thing is that these laws don't make any sense at all.. would you pay 3x more for UPS to stop using their trucks but have small vans to bring packages to your door? That's asinine.

While I'm against people getting tax breaks on SUVs, this is ridiculous, law or not.

The laws make exceptions for trucks doing business, i.e., making deliveries, construction, moving, etc. They don't make exceptions for people wanting to drive a semi tractor trailer (or a giant SUV) as their personal vehicle to and from the Git-N-Go.

The laws make sense because heavy vehicles tear up the roads much faster than normal vehicles, and they are dangerous (to pedestrians and other vehicles) and make a lot of noise.

[Randman]

Maybe he didn't hurt any person, but his crimes were still of a violent and destructive nature. His attitude in court didn't help either, from many reports on the case.

He broke the law, and however noble his intentions, it was breaking he law. And now he has to pay for his crimes.

You do notice that his "friends" left the country? They're the smart ones.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

...This is a *civilized* country, remember?

Which country are you talking about??

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Sir Arthur Dent

Your grammar needs to got fixed.

Ah, the MacNN grammar nazi.

Can't get much further down on the bitchy woman scale than that.

Would you like me to buy you a dress, and a box of tampons?

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

1.Because everyone who is convicted is guilty?

2.Because those that are guilty of even petty crimes are deserving of torture and sexual degredation?

3.Because torture and sexual degredation are not contrary to the basic principles of 21st century American justice?

1. I believe in my country's justice system. Even though I recognize it as not perfect, it's all i got.

2. Parking ticket offenses dont land you in jail. Not paying tickets for a decade do. In which case, you should have paid them or contested them. Now you pay by going to jail and being somebody's girlfriend.

3. It's pretty simple. Don't commit crimes and you won't put yourself in that situation. Torture and etc are not a principle, but a beneficial reality of jail life.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by wdlove

Such a waist of his intelligence.

Apparently, a waist of yours too!

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

1. I believe in my country's justice system. Even though I recognize it as not perfect, it's all i got.

2. Parking ticket offenses dont land you in jail. Not paying tickets for a decade do. In which case, you should have paid them or contested them. Now you pay by going to jail and being somebody's girlfriend.

3. It's pretty simple. Don't commit crimes and you won't put yourself in that situation. Torture and etc are not a principle, but a beneficial reality of jail life.

You're denying the reality that innocent people land in jail all the time. And, people who make mistakes most of us would consider completely benign.

Did you know people have gone to jail for making the simple mistake of travelling with their prescription medication in a non-prescription container? Yup, you can go to jail for putting your Xanax in a pill box. Even if you have a prescription. Even if you can later produce the prescription for the court. Then, you can get raped for it.

If we all took your view, then it would make much more sense to do away with jail cells, and prison guards policing prisons. Guards should just be posted at the prison entrances and points around the perimeter, and what goes on inside should concern nobody but the prisoners.

[Randman]

The reality is he broke the law and he's going to pay for it.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Will V.

Did you know people have gone to jail for making the simple mistake of travelling with their prescription medication in a non-prescription container?

If it is your script, and you can show proof, no.

Yup, you can go to jail for putting your Xanax in a pill box. Even if you have a prescription. Even if you can later produce the prescription for the court. Then, you can get raped for it.

Not here you can't. If you can indeed show proof, no one even gets arrested.

Been there, done that.

They usually ask you who your doctor is, and call them.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Randman

Good. Justice served. But what's an aspiring physicist?

An "aspiring physicist" is simply something nice to say about someone who is not a physicist. Me, I'm an aspiring astronaut.

Chris

[davesimondotcom]

I think that this is a proper penalty. People were "hurt" financially. Had someone been at the dealerships (security guard, person working late, etc.) they could have easily been injured. Killed even.

Firefighters could have been injured or killed. And what happens if a family home starts afire while the firefighters are out on an arson call? And that family is hurt or even killed? Would that justify a greater penalty in some of your minds?

Arson is an act that often as unintended consequences. Just because that arson is a "political" statement, doesn't make it any less distasteful. It is much more than "vandalism" in an extreme way. It is an act of violence. And it's planned as such.

Ask yourself this: Had the burned building been, say, an abortion clinic, would you be arguing for a similar sentence? Are you saying that a judge ruined Eric Rudolph's life?

It's pretty black and white: the man committed a crime. When he decided to do so, he ruined his own life. The sentence should follow the guidelines that were in place already. Nothing special just because it was "political." Arson isn't free speech.

[Millennium]

Prison rape is a horrible thing, and it should be dealt with as any other rape. There are cases where it might not be hypocritical to call such a horrid thing justice -the phenomenon of serial rapists and child molesters being low on the proverbial totem pole springs readily to mind- but it is certainly not compatible with the ideals of the American justice system. Yes, that system is flawed at points, but a truly perfect system of justice can't be achieved without sacrificing everything that makes life worth living, and so if there must be flaws, then let the flaws be on the side of protecting the innocent.

This said, to say that innocent people are improsoned "all the time" is hyperbole. It does happen on occasion, to be sure, but you make it sound as though it is common, and that is not true. Far more guilty people are set free every day than innocent people are imprisoned, and this is in itself a great triumph of the safeguards in our system, a sign that we're on the right track. Are we perfect yet? Of course not; we'll never be completely perfect. Refinements do need to be made. But we are doing something right, and any reforms made need to keep this in mind and do as little as possible to disrupt that.

[kmkkid]

Pffft.

You people are acting like gay sex isnt enjoyable.

[ghporter]

I'm with Millenium on this; occasionally-which is far too often-an innocent person is sent to prison. A bit more frequently, an innocent is jailed. Looking at everything I've been able to find on this, it seems that the majority of folks who go to jail or prison for something they didn't do are either a)hiding something they DID do, or b)doing something else illegal that puts them in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is not to say that there are NO cases of complete injustice, just that these "innocents" are not always, or even usually, completely innocent.

Now, everyone's been bandying about the "prison rape" issue. I've even mentioned "meeding Bubba." I NEVER intended that to imply that I hoped ANYONE would be raped. Studies show that prison rape is far less frequent than most of us seem to have assumed. It is also FAR more common than it should be (as in it happens at all), but examining the demographics of a prison populataion it's not too difficult to see why it does happen. Lets' all be clear about this: RAPE IS A CRIME OF VIOLENCE, AND HAS ALMOST NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX. The only thing about sex involved in rape is the "weapon" and the particular target of the assault.

A prison population contains an overwhelming majority of people who have demonstrated a long history of bad impulse control, bad temper/rage control, and who have used violence as a means to their goals. Rape attempts in this environment are something that should be expected, planed for, and intervened in as early as possible. That we don't pay guards enough, don't provide enough psychological support, and as a society don't seem to give a damn about our prison population doesn't help matters.

I personally believe that the convicted SUV vandal will hate his prison time; he will have every facet of his daily life scrutinized, and have almost no freedom of choice in what he does or when he does it. For someone who's spent any time in the academic environment, this by itself will be a huge punnishment. Maybe he will learn something from it. Violating our social contract by violently damaging someone else's property has real costs for the violator.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Pffft. You people are acting like gay sex isnt enjoyable.

-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Pffft.

You people are acting like gay sex isnt enjoyable.

I certainly hope you're not actually not equating rape with "gay sex." This discussion is NOT about sex.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I certainly hope you're not actually not equating rape with "gay sex." This discussion is NOT about sex.

Ummm, prison rape between two males most certainly is a form of gay sex is it not?

I was being silly, sorry if you took offense, but gay sex is enjoyable if not forced

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally Posted by Will V.

You're denying the reality that innocent people land in jail all the time. And, people who make mistakes most of us would consider completely benign.

Did you know people have gone to jail for making the simple mistake of travelling with their prescription medication in a non-prescription container? Yup, you can go to jail for putting your Xanax in a pill box. Even if you have a prescription. Even if you can later produce the prescription for the court. Then, you can get raped for it.

If we all took your view, then it would make much more sense to do away with jail cells, and prison guards policing prisons. Guards should just be posted at the prison entrances and points around the perimeter, and what goes on inside should concern nobody but the prisoners.

there are different kinds of jails and different levels within the jails themselves.

the minor things you mentioned may land somebody in a county correctional facility for day. they keep you in contained and watched more or less.


the real nasty ones require convictions of months, in which case... you deserved it!!!


Innocent people - I agree with you. I am forced to trust the legal system and I do believe in it. Through a proper trial and jury process, i believe they are more right than wrong. Having said that, it is what it is and it beats prisons from other countries.

Should Guards only guard the perimeter? - i will say no because the living in terror aspect of the current system is bad enough.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Been there, done that.

They usually ask you who your doctor is, and call them.

I know of people prosecuted under these same circumstances. Not all suspects or defendants are treated alike.

Always travel with your original script bottle, and always be aware of local laws regarding prescription medication when travelling.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

there are different kinds of jails and different levels within the jails themselves.

the minor things you mentioned may land somebody in a county correctional facility for day. they keep you in contained and watched more or less.

the real nasty ones require convictions of months, in which case... you deserved it!!!

Innocent people - I agree with you. I am forced to trust the legal system and I do believe in it. Through a proper trial and jury process, i believe they are more right than wrong. Having said that, it is what it is and it beats prisons from other countries.

Should Guards only guard the perimeter? - i will say no because the living in terror aspect of the current system is bad enough.

So, you don't mind some innocent people getting raped in prison, because you believe in the justice system? I wonder if you would mind if it were your ass...

Rape is rape. It's a crime, whether committed inside or outside a prison. Just think about this... a signficant portion of the people inside prisons who commit gay rape, are going to be released someday, where they will move into your city, and come into contact with your family.

If you think all minor offenses receive minor punishments, you're wrong. You're also wrong if you think rape doesn't happen in a city or county lockup, or couldn't happen to a person spending a day in jail.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Millennium

This said, to say that innocent people are improsoned "all the time" is hyperbole. It does happen on occasion, to be sure, but you make it sound as though it is common, and that is not true. Far more guilty people are set free every day than innocent people are imprisoned, and this is in itself a great triumph of the safeguards in our system, a sign that we're on the right track. Are we perfect yet? Of course not; we'll never be completely perfect. Refinements do need to be made. But we are doing something right, and any reforms made need to keep this in mind and do as little as possible to disrupt that.

It actually does happen everyday. Everyday in the United States, probably everyday in each large metro area in the United States, an innocent person is sent to prison for either being at the wrong place at the wrong time, or had evidence manufactured or hidden by prosecutors, or incompetent legal representation. In Illinois in 2000, 13 people on death row were proven innocent, and were exonerated. One person had been on death row fifteen years, and was within two days of execution, when he was proven innocent.

Now, I'm not saying the justice system is totally broken, but there is enough error that we ought not allow the prisons to be places where guards and prison officials turn a blind eye to rape, or any other crime.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Will V.

I know of people prosecuted under these same circumstances. Not all suspects or defendants are treated alike.

Always travel with your original script bottle, and always be aware of local laws regarding prescription medication when travelling.

IF said people had said script legally, there is NO WAY they went to jail for it.

BTW, this guy got 14 years for theft.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...ddlyEnoughNews

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Ummm, prison rape between two males most certainly is a form of gay sex is it not?

I was being silly, sorry if you took offense, but gay sex is enjoyable if not forced

I guess that would depend on if you was gay or not.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I guess that would depend on if you was gay or not.

*if you were gay or not*

Your grammar is appalling.

And no, anal penetration actually does feel good whether you're gay or not.





Chris

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

IF said people had said script legally, there is NO WAY they went to jail for it.

BTW, this guy got 14 years for theft.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...ddlyEnoughNews

Incorrect. I've seen it happen.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally Posted by Will V.

1.So, you don't mind some innocent people getting raped in prison, because you believe in the justice system? I wonder if you would mind if it were your ass...

2.Rape is rape. It's a crime, whether committed inside or outside a prison. Just think about this... a signficant portion of the people inside prisons who commit gay rape, are going to be released someday, where they will move into your city, and come into contact with your family.

3.If you think all minor offenses receive minor punishments, you're wrong. You're also wrong if you think rape doesn't happen in a city or county lockup, or couldn't happen to a person spending a day in jail.

1. Innocent people being convicted is not a common occurence. I don't put myself in situations where I am looking at prison time. THAT IS WHY I DO MIND!

2. it's something that occurs in the prison mentality becuase of desperation and the prison society. prison rape occurs but it is not an everyday occurence either. the fear of it on a daily basis is a decent scare tactic in itself.

3. minor offenses like what? graffiti? i think graffiti artists should not be locked up... i think they should be fined MILLIONs so that their entire lives are ruined. prison rape is not like burger king, where you walk in and you get raped in 10 minutes flat. once immersed in the prison culture, they mark you and etc.


bottom line for me is: dont commit crimes.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

And no, anal penetration

#1 Anal penetration doesn't always = Gay

actually does feel good whether you're gay or not.

#2 That is highly subjective too.

Originally Posted by Will V.

Incorrect. I've seen it happen.

Got some proof? Any?

I am not saying it has NEVER happened, I am saying it's a very rare occurance, and if the peopel arrested new anything, they could sue the pants off the police officers that did so.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

#1 Anal penetration doesn't always = Gay

#2 That is highly subjective too.

We were talking about 'gay sex' which IS anal penetration. Your prostate happens to contain a G spot, so I'm willing to bet almost 100% of males would be aroused by some sort of penetration.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

1. Innocent people being convicted is not a common occurence. I don't put myself in situations where I am looking at prison time. THAT IS WHY I DO MIND!

2. it's something that occurs in the prison mentality becuase of desperation and the prison society. prison rape occurs but it is not an everyday occurence either. the fear of it on a daily basis is a decent scare tactic in itself.

3. minor offenses like what? graffiti? i think graffiti artists should not be locked up... i think they should be fined MILLIONs so that their entire lives are ruined. prison rape is not like burger king, where you walk in and you get raped in 10 minutes flat. once immersed in the prison culture, they mark you and etc.


bottom line for me is: dont commit crimes.

Wronful conviction is not common? http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Your bottom line is overly-simplistic. Saying you don't put yourself in situations where you're looking at prison time is fine and dandy... but a lot of wrongly-convicted don't think they put themselves in those situations, either. Wrongful conviction is, by definition, a situation in which the convicted has little or no control...

http://www.innocenceproject.org/case...file.php?id=74

Google "innocence project" and find other projects/stories.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

We were talking about 'gay sex' which IS anal penetration.

Actually any type of sexual contact between two men is gay sex. It could even be your simple handjob in the alley.

Also, under your reasoning, if I had anal sex with my GF it would be gay sex..

Your prostate happens to contain a G spot, so I'm willing to bet almost 100% of males would be aroused by some sort of penetration.

Maybe, maybe not.

Heck there are women that have G-Spots and a clitoris and still don't like sex.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Actually any type of sexual contact between two men is gay sex. It could even be your simple handjob in the alley.

Also, under your reasoning, if I had anal sex with my GF it would be gay sex..

Maybe, maybe not.

Heck there are women that have G-Spots and a clitoris and still don't like sex.

Well, thanks for filling a gay man in on what gay sex is.

And you know darn well I was talking anal penetration between two men.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Got some proof? Any?

I am not saying it has NEVER happened, I am saying it's a very rare occurance, and if the peopel arrested new anything, they could sue the pants off the police officers that did so.

Jurisdiction was Tulsa County, OK. I'll get more specifics on the case in question, later, if you're interested.

You said "IF said people had said script legally, there is NO WAY they went to jail for it." Now you're saying "it's a very rare occurence"?

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally Posted by Will V.

Wronful conviction is not common? http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Your bottom line is overly-simplistic. Saying you don't put yourself in situations where you're looking at prison time is fine and dandy... but a lot of wrongly-convicted don't think they put themselves in those situations, either. Wrongful conviction is, by definition, a situation in which the convicted has little or no control...

http://www.innocenceproject.org/case...file.php?id=74

Google "innocence project" and find other projects/stories.

i think innocent people should not go to jail

your beef is with the accuracy in the legal system. good for you!

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Will V.

Jurisdiction was Tulsa County, OK. I'll get more specifics on the case in question, later, if you're interested.

Sure thing, I am interested.

You said "IF said people had said script legally, there is NO WAY they went to jail for it." Now you're saying "it's a very rare occurence"?

No, I said there was no way. I don't believe it. IF someone was, they were being jailed illegally and could sue the pants off the police.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Sure thing, I am interested.

OK, I got some more details. The scenario was a routine traffic stop, followed by discovery of prescription medication in at least two baggies... one belonging to the driver, one to the driver's daughter (who may not have been in the vehicle). Subsequent to posting bond, the defendant produced proof of prescriptions for all medication. The court did not dismiss the charges, however. The attorney for the defendant advised that she may have to plea bargain, upon which she got a new attorney. The case may still be pending, I don't have a current update on the status, last update was about two months ago.

I am not an attorney, but I have a close relative who is an attorney in the jurisdiction in question, and the case came to her attention because not only is the defendant a high school friend of my relative, but also because of the ridiculous nature of the case.

[Zimphire]

Ok, who keeps medication in BAGGIES? Well cept drug dealers and those who buy off them. NEVER and I repeat NEVER keep any medication in baggies. Makes you look suspect.

I have a feeling there is more to this than what you know, or are telling me.

What kind of medication was it?

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Ok, who keeps medication in BAGGIES? Well cept drug dealers and those who buy off them. NEVER and I repeat NEVER keep any medication in baggies. Makes you look suspect.

I have a feeling there is more to this than what you know, or are telling me.

What kind of medication was it?

Maybe someone who needs to keep a small quantity on hand in case of emergency.

There is more to this story, but the relevant points are not in question. There were prescription drugs found without their original containers. Charges were filed. Proof of valid prescription was produced, but charges remain.

Why can't you admit that you don't know every law regarding prescription medication in every jurisdiction?

[ort888]

What a dufus. You can get your message across without causing permanent damge. Use a washable car marking pen or something. If he did that he probaly would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist and probabtion.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Will V.

Maybe someone who needs to keep a small quantity on hand in case of emergency.

In a baggy? That a lone made her suspect I hope you know that.

There is more to this story, but the relevant points are not in question.

Relevent to you maybe, tell us the rest of the story.

There were prescription drugs found without their original containers. Charges were filed. Proof of valid prescription was produced, but charges remain.

And like I said, something sounds fishy. And unless I know the whole story, one cannot say either way.

Why can't you admit that you don't know every law regarding prescription medication in every jurisdiction?

I never remember every saying that I did.

What I am saying is, from the parts you are actually telling me, it sounds fishy.

That is why I would love to hear the whole story. Like what kind of drugs they were, etc.

What would the problem be in answering that?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

What would the problem be in answering that?

It would violate HIPAA regulations...

[driven]

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

That pathetic bishop here in Phoenix who killed a man in a hit and run didn't even get a sentence like this. Then again, in some parts of the country, a man's SUV is more important than a man's life.
.

Motivations come into play also.

The pathetic bishop didn't go out and intentionally do damage. This guy did, multiple times.

That said: The pathetic bishop *should* have gotten more.


I have no sympathy: People make their decisions, people are responsible for their own actions.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Person Man

It would violate HIPAA regulations...

Yeah I am sure.

I just find it weird for some reason.

[Randman]

I've put medication in a baggie before. When wanting to take some on a trip but don't need the entire bottle.