[KraziKid]

Well, I have the ability to get a discount on the 30 inch, and am strongly considering it, since it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Right now I have 2 Dell 20 inch displays (2005FPW), and would be selling those if I got the 30 inch. Right now, I like the ability of the dual screens, and know that the 30 inch has more pixels than these two combined, so my ability to see more information won't be limited.

Now, here's the question. Do you think the single 30 inch is better than two 20's? Or even, one Dell 20 inch, and one Apple 23? I would get the Apple 23 if I dont get the 30.

I actually could use the 30 inch display because I am a developer and consistently have many applications, and lots of documentation up at the same time, and the ability to see it all without using Cmd-Tab or Expose would increase my efficiency.

So what do you all think?

EDIT:
Here's another thing I should add. I will be using my G5 to watch DVD's and TV as well. With the two displays, I can have TV or movie going on one, while working on the other. Should this be a deciding factor to remain dual screen?

If I stay dual screen, I think I will just sell my 20's, and get dual 23's, because they work out for me to be one dollar cheaper than the 30. So now it's pretty much Dual 23's vs Single 30. How about this now?

[SSharon]

If you can afford it get it, but some people do work better with 2 screens even if they have a few less pixels. It helps keep them organized I guess. Seems like you will have to decide based on the apps you use and workflow patterns.

[osxisfun]

I was in the same boat but sold my g5 and 1 dell 2005s and bought a powerbook and kept the apple 20" .

since I only can drive one monitor it makes the decision a little tougher but if i had a desktop i would look at 2 dell 24"

i have not seen one up close but i did have the dell 20 and the only thing i did not like was that it was ugly and it was too brite.

[Cadaver]

I had two Dell 2001FPs and I bought myself a 30" display about 2 months ago. Love it! Just love it. Its an amazing display. You wont be sorry.

[KraziKid]

Here's another thing I should add. I will be using my G5 to watch DVD's and TV as well. With the two displays, I can have TV or movie going on one, while working on the other. Should this be a deciding factor to remain dual screen?

[OogaBooga]

Ahhh... definitely get the 30". You can always purchase another 23" down the road to go along with your 30", but for now you'll like the huge amount of space.

[k2director]

I have two 23" Cinema Displays now. I've thought about getting a 30", but would definitely still want a second display. Many apps are best used when they take up the whole screen. That's great, but I like to have multiple apps open and visible at once, and for that, a two display set up is preferable.

Right now, I usually have my main app on one Cinema Display (like Final Cut or DVD Studio Pro), and on the 2nd, I have iChat, iTunes, iCal, an FTP app, and sometimes DVD Player (to keep me company while a work). I can just turn my head slightly from my main Display, and all those apps are right there, ready to go. You can't really get that kind of functionality on a single monitor, 30" or otherwise.

[d.fine]

I'd go for the Dual 23" setup. Having 2 screens is not the same as having 1 screen with more pixels. You can divide your apps better among 2 screens, instead of dividing the space on 1 bigger screen. Just me, I'd go for the dual setup.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by KraziKid

Well, I have the ability to get a discount on the 30 inch, and am strongly considering it, since it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I love mine and I'd never be as happy with a dual-monitor setup. I've never found a way to work comfortably with two montitors, even when they're identical and smushed right up next to each other. I always end up favoring one monitor for my work and the second display just ends up a neglected ghetto of windows I don't use. I find a single, huge display to be much more seamless for my working style.

I hacked up this web page when I was contemplating buying my 30" ACD and I found it to be quite compelling.

I was a bit spooked by the size, but it only took a couple hours to go from "wow, my neck hurts from panning back and forth" to "wow, I'm grinning so big I just swallowed my ears." Now it looks and feels Just Right™.

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I love mine and I'd never be as happy with a dual-monitor setup. I've never found a way to work comfortably with two montitors, even when they're identical and smushed right up next to each other. I always end up favoring one monitor for my work and the second display just ends up a neglected ghetto of windows I don't use. I find a single, huge display to be much more seamless for my working style.

I hacked up this web page when I was contemplating buying my 30" ACD and I found it to be quite compelling.

I was a bit spooked by the size, but it only took a couple hours to go from "wow, my neck hurts from panning back and forth" to "wow, I'm grinning so big I just swallowed my ears." Now it looks and feels Just Right™.

Excellent comparasion page you made.

[Cadaver]

I use a 30" display as my main display, and a 17" Apple Studio Display as a second display for previewing Keynote/PowerPoint presentations (of which I do tons).

[schalliol]

Since cost isn't as much of an issue, the 30' would be quite nice. For cost reasons, dual 20's would ordinarily be much more sensible.

[KraziKid]

Does anyone know if the 23 inch monitors are still having the quality control problems? I am weighing my pros and cons right now, and think that the dual setup may be better since I will be using my G5 for TV and movies also. While I would love a 30, right now the dual setup is probably better.

[KraziKid]

Does anyone know if the 23 inch monitors are still having the quality control problems? I am weighing my pros and cons right now, and think that the dual setup may be better since I will be using my G5 for TV and movies also. While I would love a 30, right now the dual setup is probably better.

- Sorry, for some reason the last post wasn't registering.

[schalliol]

I would not get two widescreen displays. Think about how incredibly wide the display would be then. Whereas with two 4:3 displays you get 8:3 ratio, which is very wide, but not as bad.

[KraziKid]

Originally Posted by schalliol

I would not get two widescreen displays. Think about how incredibly wide the display would be then. Whereas with two 4:3 displays you get 8:3 ratio, which is very wide, but not as bad.

I already have the two dell widescreens. I know how incredibly wide it is, but I like it.

[thalo]

I don't think the kinks are worked out of the 30" Cinema Display yet. I just returned a brand new one for a strange problem that's been reported on Apple Delusions and elsewhere as "dancing pixels". I suspect it's a thermal fault issue, but it's one that Apple hasn't acknowledged as a bona fide defect yet.

But it is. Trust me.

Here's what I think happens: owing to the fact that this is Apple's largest expanse of transistors in a TFT to date, I'm not sure these monitors were thoroughly tested at their normal operating temperatures. When I first started the thing up, I was VERY impressed. The display seemed to have accurate color, a great range of viewing angles, and quite magnificent native brightness.

But then I started working with it. I let it come up to temperature in a real-world pro graphic studio setting, and that's when the problem reared up. In certain mid-grey areas of images, I'd start seeing this riot of bright indigo pixels. It started showing up first on the generic Tiger "graphite" desktop pattern. I saw these bright blue pixels in a great swath across the lower third of the image. Your first impression is that it's some kind of out-of-gamut warning.

After reading up on user reports, I determined that what we have here is some kind of expansion or distorting of transistors that seems to effect one or more pixel recipes (usually some flavor of mid-grey). If you CHANGE the recipe, by for example invoking DASHBOARD, the effect disappears. If you drag a window or element over the afflicted area, it disappears. In short, the weakness shows up only in a particular color recipe. You can use your digital color meter to get this recipe, and test the monitor over its entire surface.

I noticed that the dispersion of indigo pixels on my monitor seemed to show in roughly consistent zones, and that's how I came to the conclusion that it was some kind of thermal expansion fault. What seemed peculiar was that it only seemed to affect a certain middle grey pixel recipe. But then I thought about that, and it struck me that in a finely calibrated monitor, a middle grey requires a perfect balance of subpixel output in R, G, and B, and such a thermal fault might show up there first.

Therefore I encourage pro users to test their displays AFTER they come up to temp, in all the Mac's "millions" of colors over the entire surface (picture the Adobe color picker as a desktop background)... and perhaps come up with some kind of test that emphasizes the mid-greys. If you see any of the pixels tip to some bright color (many users report bright GREEN, where I was seeing indigo/blue)... then you'll know your monitor isn't holding color. Take your digital color meter and sample the "dancing" pixels, and that's what you can report to apple as the defect in your particular monitor.

But note, you kind of have to observe that "problem" color over the entire surface to get an accurate map of the thermal fault lines. Eventually I was apple to predict where my monitor would fail after heating up to the point where the TFT warped or expanded and revealed the fault. Then I could consistently show the zones where my monitor couldn't display that particular color.

It's really up to pro users not to settle for these kind of lapses in quality control. Not for a three thousand dollar display. Unfortunately, as Mac Faithful, we all tend to get charmed and impressed with that initial "gee whiz" effect (that Apple has always been great at), and sometimes overlook serious flaws that appear over time and with professional use. To their credit, Apple heard me out and took the monitor right back no questions asked. They didn't threaten to charge me for an evaluation, or a restocking fee. I suspect this issue is something that blindsided them, so it's really important that if you are a creative professional who's experiencing it, you need to complain and demand that you get a monitor that's not going to start showing crazy colors when it heats up.

thalo

[gkorsgard]

I have had my 30" display for about 30 days. So far, no trouble. My primary function is video editing. In all, a great display. Viewing angles are great. It is just a big screen!

[Macpilot]

What about the Dell 24" model? I just read the reviews on this thing and it cannot be beat for the price.

[thalo]

Just another note to professionals who are buying this monitor... you really only get the benefit of the 14 day return policy if you thoroughly test your monitor in that time period. You will still be covered under the Apple 1-year warranty, and I'm sure you will be able to return under that if you explain the situation, but you might have a bit more difficulty and have to go the service route instead of the straight return/replacement. So I'd suggest really going over it with a fine toothed comb in the first two weeks.

brother gkorsgard, I'm glad you got a cherry display. Still, I think you should test it. First for dead pixels, using Pixel Check v. 1.2, then in the ways I suggested in the long post above. In my reading about this issue in the various online Mac forums, it appears some people are in denial about this defect. I've actually heard things like people saying "it fixes itself" and people who assume everything is OK because Dashboard makes the brightly colored "dancing" pixels disappear. People can definitely overlook it if they play the "Doc, it hurts when I do this..." jag. I think they don't understand it's a function of color and heat. And the problem can be easy to miss unless you know what you're looking for, which is one problem color (usually a mid-grey) which will misfire as a bright blue or green in a fault pattern after the monitor heats up. The monitor really needs to run for hours at a stretch before it'll show. If you read Apple Delusions (Discussions) People with this problem have gone into Apple stores and opened boxes and were able to reproduce it every time after letting the displays warm up, so I think it's a bigger problem than we all think. But hopefully Apple knows about it now, and monitors that are coming fresh off the line may have dealt with it. But you don't have to take my word, google 30" Cinema displays, dancing pixels, etc., and I think you'll come to the same conclusions about color accuracy in this display as I did. And let's hope Apple deals with it as a QA issue from here on out.

Wish me luck, I'm about to get a replacement for my 30 incher today. I'll let you know if the new one passes muster.

thalo

(Mac Heretic)

[thalo]

The new 30" monitor arrived just now. Passed the dead pixel check with zero anomalies, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. Now it's just a matter of letting it heat up and seeing if I get a thermal color fault. I'll let you brothers know at the end of the day if she holds up, or if I start seeing the pixel problem.

[osxisfun]

I'm tempted but for $800 i can get a dell and a lot of other software i need more than 6" of screen space. Myabe the next rev though if they drop the rpice an get a 2nd gen lcd/tech in there.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by thalo

The new 30" monitor arrived just now. Passed the dead pixel check with zero anomalies, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. Now it's just a matter of letting it heat up and seeing if I get a thermal color fault. I'll let you brothers know at the end of the day if she holds up, or if I start seeing the pixel problem.

I've had my 30" since May 1 and I've not had the dancing pixel problem that people describe. Colors are rock stable (even after hours of use at full brightness).
The only issue I have is a few occasional (and I do mean rare) green flickering pixels along the left hand side. I've seen this maybe 5 or 6 times since May 1st. And while this issue has also been reported on the forums, turning the monitor off then right back on instantly resolves the issue.
Zero dead pixels, spot-on color and grayscale (grayscale is important to me as I'm a medical imager) and nearly perfect backlighting... I'll live with a couple of green pixels fixed with a quit power cycle.

[thalo]

I believe those flickering green pixels are part of this thermal fault issue. Green seems to be the most common color of this symptom. I've also heard that thing about cycling the power on and off to make them disappear. I haven't drawn a conclusion yet as to why that works. If the TFT has become heat-distorted, I'm not sure why powering down and back on would reset the subpixels and bring them into alignment again. Perhaps on a microscopic level it gives them a second to cool down, and that's enough.

Those green pixels are something I personally would not live with. That's not what I call spot-on color. To me, that's a defect. A mild case is still a case. You're just choosing not to get worked up about it. That's cool, but it would make me nuts. But that's me. As a professional graphic artist, I live in a world where every pixel counts. But hey, to each his or her own. If it were me, I'd be happier if I didn't have to turn the power on and off of a monitor I paid three grand for. I'd rather have spent that kind of coin on a monitor where I didn't have to do that. I know they are out there, because I've seen them in person. I'd keep asking myself why some people get the ones where every pixel holds color, and others don't.

I am pretty sure the new replacement monitor is up to temperature now, after several hours in service. The top of the bezel is quite warm to the touch, and the radiant heat coming off the thing, I can feel that a bit on my face. And yet, so far so good. Zero dead pixels, and no dancing, flashing, or mis-colored pixels so far. And I've been checking the entire surface carefully with a loupe, and with as many colors as I can cycle through (using full-screen wide-gamut gradations, then messing with hue and sat sliders). Concentrating on the mid-greys. Color performance these first few hours has been flawless. But if I develop something like brother cadaver has within the next fourteen days? Guess what, I'm rejecting the display. I'm not much of a "live with"-er when I'm paying top dollar. I call that crap-settling.

thalo

[__^^__]

How much desk area does the mouse need to move the cursor across the entire screen on the 30" monitor?

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by __^^__

How much desk area does the mouse need to move the cursor across the entire screen on the 30" monitor?

Depends on your mouse and how fast you've set it tracking speed. I don't have any problem moving across the whole screen without running out of room on my desk.

[thalo]

How much desk area does the mouse need to move the cursor across the entire screen on the 30" monitor?

Well, that depends on a couple of things, your mouse tracking preferences, and whether you are a "lifter" or not. I keep my mouse set to three ticks from the right ("Fast") in the preference pane, and if I don't lift, and make one smooth, regular movement from East to West on the screen, I go from one end to the other in about 7" of desktop. Which means you could use your basic regulation mousepad (7.5" x 8.5") and stay on it, just like any other monitor.

Remember, the Apple pro mouse also detects acceleration: if you really "throw" it, you cover greater monitor distances with smaller movements.

What I'm saying about dual-button, scroll-wheel mice is basically that mousing never bothered me to the point where I ever felt the need to cut down on it. Never felt like I was wasting so much time, that I sat around wishing that they'd come up with something which used a smaller finger movement to do the same friggin' things I could already do. I never worried about getting bulky, overdeveloped weightlifter muscles from mousing too much.

The only times I complain about mousing is when a GUI is poorly designed, as in the case of OS X. With the Mac, most of the controls used to be organized top-down. The application menu and the apple menu were both at the top. Now, we do a lot of zigzagging north and south between the menubar and the dock. That's poor design. All the controls should be up top, and designed with easy access in mind. Apple needs to read its old Human Interface Guidelines... the stuff they pioneered, the founding research of the Mac interface. There was a lot of good stuff in there. The new AHIGs, for Aqua, break so many of the rules, it isn't funny.

I think the people who say they are more productive with dual button mice probably believe that. But it's not because two button mice are inherently more ergonomic, intuitive, or easier to use. It's because they believe in them, and train themselves to use them. A piano player thinks piano keys are more intuitve than the controls of a saxophone. A saxophone player believes the converse. But that has to do with practice, preference, and training.

Me, I can always prove in a court of law that the thing with the fewest controls, the simpler interface is easier to use. A hammer has an interface that's less complicated than a playstation. The learning curve is faster, and the gross motor skills involved are more intuitive. You don't have to read a manual. You don't have to program it. Less is More.

thalo

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by thalo

A hammer has an interface that's less complicated than a playstation. The learning curve is faster, and the gross motor skills involved are more intuitive. You don't have to read a manual. You don't have to program it. Less is More.

thalo

Interesting... that explains why every time I buy something high-tech with a bunch of buttons, my wife wants to hit me with a hammer!

[thalo]

Interesting... that explains why every time I buy something high-tech with a bunch of buttons, my wife wants to hit me with a hammer!

Ahhh, but women have interfaces that, while complicated, are fairly intuitive. If you stick with it, and work hard to master those controls, twiddle the right widgets and mouse over the right zones, learn the default states... you might save yourself from the lumps on the noggin.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by thalo

Ahhh, but women have interfaces that, while complicated, are fairly intuitive. If you stick with it, and work hard to master those controls, twiddle the right widgets and mouse over the right zones, learn the default states... you might save yourself from the lumps on the noggin.

[thalo]

[howl!]

That's friggin' brilliant!