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nebben123 · Oct 16, 2003, 05:55 PM

A microphone to record voice memos? SIGH.

*rolls eyes*

I want something that adds high-quality LINE-IN recording. Then I can get rid of my MiniDisc equipment that I use to record live shows (or DAT, for those of you who have that).

Essential features?

1) High-res dual level meters on the screen. Also include an on-the-fly numeric db readout. (-2db, CLIP, etc)

2) Recording levels adjustable manually (while recording) or with auto gain.

3) Allow track markers to be inserted into the AIFF file every X minutes, or during silences below a certain db threshold (user selectable).

4) Record to at least 16-bit 44.1khz stereo uncompressed AIFF (if not 48khz).

This would be killer! Could you imagine going to a show, recording it down to iPod, then getting back to your Mac and plugging it in... drag the file to your hard disk, open up in something like Peak LE and it's ready to edit! No real-time digital transfers necessary... just drag and drop from iPod to Mac!

Why is this not out yet? I know a lot of people who would buy an iPod JUST FOR this sort of capability. The quality of DAT, with the ease of use of Mac! (not to mention 40GB of recording space!!! never change a tape!)...

But a voice-memo recorder? Ho-hum.

SomeToast · Oct 16, 2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by nebben123:
Why is this not out yet? I know a lot of people who would buy an iPod JUST FOR this sort of capability.

But is the iPod hardware able to do such a thing?

Voice memos are one thing, 16-bit 44.1khz stereo uncompressed AIFF is quite another.

phrenzy · Oct 16, 2003, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by SomeToast:
But is the iPod hardware able to do such a thing?

Voice memos are one thing, 16-bit 44.1khz stereo uncompressed AIFF is quite another.

Umm. No 44.1khz uncompressed is not quite another. If the iPod has the horsepower to play back AAC compressed audio it EASILY has the power to simply record UNCOMPRESSED audio at 44.1 stereo.

This 'voice' recorder is a joke. $50? Give me a break.

That is what should be charged for a dual mic stereo field recorder attachment.

It is correct - so many people would buy the iPod just for 44.1 stereo Line/Mic recording ability.

One thing I am curious about - what are the specs of the voice recorder? I know it is WAV - but is it 44.1 ? If so, how hard could it be to at least take it apart and solder on a wired GOOD quality mic to the thing?

I am thinking Apple are just having some legal or tech issues with this. Because the iPod is clearly capable of such a thing and has been for a while (the little line in clip recording via the dock was in stereo I believe)

Hopefully somebody will do it quickly now that the Belkin thing is out.

phrenzy · Oct 16, 2003, 07:18 PM

BTW - if Apple is smart they will just give us an option to manually turn on the recording option (which they clearly can do) and switch the headphones connector to a line IN. I am sure that is all this belkin toy is doing - since it is not drawing power from anywhere (not a dock device)

I long for the day I just snap THIS little stereo mic on top of my iPod and go out field recording all day!

WJMoore · Oct 16, 2003, 09:49 PM

I don't think it will happen, Apple won't want to deal with the potential legal issues of being able to record up to 40Gb of hifi audio with an iPod.

phrenzy · Oct 16, 2003, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by WJMoore:
I don't think it will happen, Apple won't want to deal with the potential legal issues of being able to record up to 40Gb of hifi audio with an iPod.

Unfortunately, I think you are right. I think that this is precisely the reason they didn't just release some kind of full-on mic adapter recording system in the first place.

They are cowtowing to the record industry to some extent - in order to make more gains with the iTms - Which I totally understand.

At this point, I really think it is up to somebody else to create such a device. But Apple has to at least make the ABILITY available - which they may never do.

Axo1ot1 · Oct 16, 2003, 10:05 PM

I would have loved to have that ability when I was doing the audio recording for my movie. I don't think it's a legal issue for apple or portable tape recorders, Marantz recorders and portable DATs would be hard to find. It's the individual use that is an issue. My plans for it were all legal.

hempcamp · Oct 16, 2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by WJMoore:
I don't think it will happen, Apple won't want to deal with the potential legal issues of being able to record up to 40Gb of hifi audio with an iPod.

Bullhockey. You aren't going to get hifi audio from an iPod sitting in the audience of a show.

Unfortunately, this "feature" would present a problem for many of us who go to shows and concerts. If people are doing this kind of thing with an iPod, organizers will probably prevent iPods from being brought into shows.

--Chris

phrenzy · Oct 17, 2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by hempcamp:
Bullhockey. You aren't going to get hifi audio from an iPod sitting in the audience of a show.

Unfortunately, this "feature" would present a problem for many of us who go to shows and concerts. If people are doing this kind of thing with an iPod, organizers will probably prevent iPods from being brought into shows.

--Chris

What is with your crusade against getting this functionality?

You actually think that because some organizers might prevent ipods into some shows we shouldn't implement this?

And just what is a better way to record a concert?

Thats what bootlegging is - going in to a concert and recording it from the best position you can.

badtz · Oct 17, 2003, 01:00 AM

Why is this not out yet? I know a lot of people who would buy an iPod JUST FOR this sort of capability. The quality of DAT, with the ease of use of Mac! (not to mention 40GB of recording space!!! never change a tape!)...

EXACTLY what I've been waiting for

Spheric Harlot · Oct 17, 2003, 02:46 AM

I know at least four people who'd buy one if they could hook up line in or a stereo mic.

I would, to replace my 5gig.

It's invariably the first question asked: "Can it record?"

I sincerely hope this Belkin joke is just the beginning.

-s*

kovacs · Oct 17, 2003, 03:52 AM

Line IN recording would be great, Minidisc is on it's way out and MC is almost dead, the other MP3 players already have line IN recording or will have in the near future. MP3 recorders could be the ultimate replacement for the antiquated MC. My guess is they offer Line IN recording with the next iPod revision. Nobody will be able to fill his iPod with 80 gigs of music anymore, so they will need a new reason for people to buy a new iPod, full line IN recording could boost sales, but not just now. It's too early....

Lertsiri · Oct 17, 2003, 04:57 AM

I have been rooting for Line in, more specifically SPDIF IN/OUT. But just Line in/out would be nice enough for me to ditch my aged MZ-R900 Sony MD.

I do Digital Music from my Korg Studio 88 straight to my MD via SPDIF IN. Great backup tool.

I also use to use my MD as a back up device for Mics on a Boom on Movie sets when shooting on film or DVCAM.

Now if only the iPod had that option, I'd buy one instantly.

while we are at it, throw in Airport connecton add on to broadcast the songs from my PB 17 to and from the dream iPod we all want...hehe....lets root for this so that Apple hears us!

Lertsiri Boonmee

my homepage with setup pics

kovacs · Oct 17, 2003, 05:22 AM

I don't think we will ever see SPDIF IN/OUT, it would be a killer feature though ( for me at least ). I they decide to add SPDIF IN/OUT they will have to add a ADC and DAC ( Digital to analog converter ) chip besides to processor they use to decode MP3 and AAC, I don't see this happening unless they can make some kind of superchip that can work with digital signals in both ways ( encode & decode ) and with encoded and decoded signals in both ways ( record & play ). A MD player already has a DAC and an ADC chip, but the iPod really doesn't need one, an iPod is a consumer product and consumers don't need this feature only Pros do...

Lertsiri · Oct 17, 2003, 07:44 AM

Fine Kovac, I'd still settle for an Analog Line IN/OUT like the MD MZ-R900.....

anyhow...some mac users are pro users as well...music industry and film industry....so why not have a Pro Version of iPod.....

bring on the Level indicator on backlit screen, the clipping indicators, left channel and right channel, direct aif, mp3 or aac encoding formats, 24 bit analog line in out like the Powerbook 15" line in, 60 gig hdd (real space at about 54 gigs anyway since the system takes space and the real world hdd space is usually over hyped, last but not least FW800 complete with Supplied dongle for FW800 to FW400 converter....

perfect for the portable recording artists with his Portable Keyboards and Powerbook...who want to output to a MP3 device or AAC device on the fly. and be able to use it on the road to review mixes that he/she made.

OK back to reality.....I Guess SPDIF is streatching it a bit. hehe...

phrenzy · Oct 17, 2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Lertsiri:
Fine Kovac, I'd still settle for an Analog Line IN/OUT like the MD MZ-R900.....

anyhow...some mac users are pro users as well...music industry and film industry....so why not have a Pro Version of iPod.....

bring on the Level indicator on backlit screen, the clipping indicators, left channel and right channel, direct aif, mp3 or aac encoding formats, 24 bit analog line in out like the Powerbook 15" line in, 60 gig hdd (real space at about 54 gigs anyway since the system takes space and the real world hdd space is usually over hyped, last but not least FW800 complete with Supplied dongle for FW800 to FW400 converter....

perfect for the portable recording artists with his Portable Keyboards and Powerbook...who want to output to a MP3 device or AAC device on the fly. and be able to use it on the road to review mixes that he/she made.

OK back to reality.....I Guess SPDIF is streatching it a bit. hehe...

No reason somebody could not make a small dongle type thing for the dock connection that supports spdif input.

AlphaQuam · Oct 17, 2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by hempcamp:
Bullhockey. You aren't going to get hifi audio from an iPod sitting in the audience of a show.

Unfortunately, this "feature" would present a problem for many of us who go to shows and concerts. If people are doing this kind of thing with an iPod, organizers will probably prevent iPods from being brought into shows.

--Chris

Who cares if they prevent iPods from being brought in? Would you bring your iPod if you didn't intend to record? The issue is whether or not recording is allowed at all, they don't care what kind of device you use. If they don't allow iPods, they wouldn't allow DATs or MDs, either.

And I don't think it presents any legal issue for Apple. There are already products out there that let you record 40GB of 44.1 (and 48) khz audio. My Nomad even does digital in. The venues and bands are the ones responsible for setting the recording policies and enforcing them, not the companies that make the products.

GORDYmac · Oct 17, 2003, 12:38 PM

I don't think Apple wants iPods to be used for serious recording, only voice memos, lectures, etc. If they wanted it to do more, wouldn't the line in support stereo, at least?

cowicide · Oct 17, 2003, 12:43 PM

>
> AlphaQuam:
> Who cares if they prevent iPods from being brought in?
>

That's what I was thinking. Why the hell would you want to listen to an iPod at a music concert? Hahaha... It's amazing what bogus stuff people will come up with just to poo poo good ideas.

Look, it's only a matter of time before there is some kind of line in to an iPod. There is NO legal reason not to do this. For instance, you "could" use an iPod to listen to illegal mp3's, but they still sell it. You "could" use an iPod to bootleg concerts... but that is NO grounds to ban the damn things for legit use.

If for some retarded reason someone doesn't make a line in, I will solder one to this Belkin joke. So, whether you like it or not... I will have an iPod with a line in. Hahaha...

I don't know why people get so afraid of good progress... sheesh... I'll use it to LEGALLY record my own shows and when we play in the 140 foot long underground tunnel we use. I could give a rat's ass about using it to make cruddy sounding, bootlegs of Barry Manilo or whatever you guys are crying about...

-----------

Simon X · Oct 17, 2003, 12:52 PM

Does the iPod mic at least have voice activated recording? Haven't read anything about this, but surely a must. Perhaps via a software upgrade in the future, but should be a feature from the start.

hempcamp · Oct 17, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by cowicide:
It's amazing what bogus stuff people will come up with just to poo poo good ideas.

It wasn't my point to pooh-pooh the idea of having a line in on the iPod -- on the contrary I think it's a great idea.

My point is that people *shouldn't* pooh-pooh the iPod for only having a mono mic, because there simply is no more utility to having a low-quality mini stereo mic than having a quality mono mic.

The mono mic is a good idea, and it is particularly good for people like me who record voice notes and lectures. The line in would be a great idea for people who are going to set up appropriate (and legal, hopefully) mobile recording. But Apple's target is clearly the former, not the latter.

--Chris

phrenzy · Oct 17, 2003, 01:26 PM

My point is that people *shouldn't* pooh-pooh the iPod for only having a mono mic, because there simply is no more utility to having a low-quality mini stereo mic than having a quality mono mic.

--Chris [/B]

That is absolute bull-crap and you know it. There are plenty of applications for a good quality stereo mic. And very few reasons to prohibit its use.

waffffffle · Oct 17, 2003, 01:59 PM

I also record live shows and I have been waiting a long time for full-featured iPod recording. Right now I use my iBook to record which is a real pain. I'd like to just need my iPod and a good condenser mic or two.

For those who believe that concert venues won't allow iPods in you really need to get with the times. There are HUNDREDS of bands out there that allow fans to record their shows for free and even bring microphone stands and DAT recorders to shows. Some notable bands that allow this are the Dave Matthews Band and Phish. Pearl Jam allows fan recording but you can't use DAT recorders or mic stands.

The problem I see with the iPod recording 44.1 KHz uncompressed 16 but audio is that the battery probably couldn't support spinning the hard disk constantly for several hours. The iPod's 8 hour battery life is due to the fact that hard disk is rarely spinning, but if you want to record large audio files then the hard disk needs to spin constantly. I guess we'll have to use the external battery solutions for that but I believe both the belkin external battery pack and the microphone both plug into the dock connector, therefore making simultaneous use impossible.

I'm waiting for someone to buy one of these mics, rip it apart and solder on an 1/8" connector and see if it can use external mics. I am very interested to see how well that goes.

hempcamp · Oct 17, 2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by phrenzy:
That is absolute bull-crap and you know it. There are plenty of applications for a good quality stereo mic. And very few reasons to prohibit its use.

Whatever.

+ spiral + · Oct 18, 2003, 01:21 AM

Don't worry. In 2 months, someone in japan will have cracked open the Belkin mic, replicated it's logic circuit and posted a hack showing how to use normal stereo mics. Plus, since iPod is for windoze too, that opens it up to alot more minds.

phrenzy · Oct 18, 2003, 03:45 PM

Damn. Looks like those of us hoping to retro fit some kind of decent recording connection are SOL. Likewise - we are probably SOL on apple including this functionality at all if the specs are truly limited to what this FAQ says.

Too bad - the next rev of an ipod to have recording - I will buy for sure.

------
FAQ: What are the recording specifications of the iPod?

_The information in this article applies to the following products:

Voice Recorder for iPod w/ Dock Connector (F8E462)

_More Info

___

Monaural (mono), 16-bit audio at 8KHz.

------------

Makes Belkin's $50 price tag look even more ridiculous.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 21, 2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Lertsiri:
perfect for the portable recording artists with his Portable Keyboards and Powerbook...who want to output to a MP3 device or AAC device on the fly. and be able to use it on the road to review mixes that he/she made.

??? Any "portable recording artist" who takes his Powerbook along works with a lot more than two tracks. And if you're doing more than stereo, you have to bounce to stereo anyway - in which case you can usually just bounce directly to .mp3, or convert it on the Powerbook.

iPod recording is interesting only when you DON'T want to have your Powerbook along. But there's a lot of situations where that is the case.

-s*

macaddled · Oct 21, 2003, 05:41 PM

You guys know the car ad (I think it's VW) where the team of guys record a bunch of sounds coming from the car and then make techno out of it?

That's what I want to do with this little guy, but 8khz ain't gonna cut it. Higher quality would totally be technically feasible, and there aren't any legal ramifications (you're talking about reproducing the functionality of tons of things already out there). There's no excuse. Please make it happen Apple!

andrewlogan · Oct 23, 2003, 11:20 PM

Hell yeah! I was thinking of decoding which of the four pins on the remote jack the mic is drawin power to and subsequently sending audio to, but soldering a line in onto the belkin mic is a much better idea! As soon as I pick one up, I'd love to work with somebody towards the ultimate goal of rigging up a line in!

zubro · Oct 24, 2003, 03:39 AM

What about battery life in record mode?
...
20 min? ;o)

Mastrap · Oct 24, 2003, 03:49 AM

Totally agree. We currently use DAT drives for recording sound which is totally antiquated.

I'd love to see decent recording capability.