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Anti-Bullying Laws
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subego
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Nov 4, 2011, 10:35 AM
 
Is it possible to have one without infringing on a student's 1st Amendment rights?
     
finboy
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Nov 4, 2011, 11:05 AM
 
I think there's always been ways of controlling behavior without calling it "bullying." Ostracizing mean individuals (or kicking their ass in a private setting) has been known to work for that, but I guess that could be considered "bullying" those folks who have whatever combination of characteristics that cause them to have a propensity to bully others. It's a vicious circle.

The idea that bullying is special is because that's the term that activists have come up with to mean "picking on gay people." So, as with all other "hate crimes" there isn't really a way to demonstrate that the person committed such a crime without speaking to their biases and intent to harm someone from a different group. If freedom of speech covers racial or intolerant speech (and it does, sometimes) then anti-bullying stuff will touch on this, by necessity.

The anti-bullying movement is just the latest in the whole idea that we aren't supposed to treat LGBTQIA folks differently, except for all the ways that they insist on being treated differently. It screams LOOK AT ME, and that's the type of thing that gives even the apolitical types issue fatigue when asked to side with that group on things such as DADT and gay marriage.
( Last edited by finboy; Nov 4, 2011 at 11:11 AM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
The anti-bullying movement is just the latest in the whole idea that we aren't supposed to treat LGBTQIA folks differently, except for all the ways that they insist on being treated differently. It screams LOOK AT ME, and that's the type of thing that gives even the apolitical types issue fatigue when asked to side with that group on things such as DADT and gay marriage.
I think that's only half fair. I've never been verbally attacked for being heterosexual, while every homosexual I know has.

Now, I doubt the wisdom of addressing this with legislation, but it's similarly unwise to pretend the problem isn't there.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 11:43 AM
 
To expand on my short OP a touch.

Asking whether it's a 1st Amendment issue isn't a very good question (it pretty obviously is), and IIUC, it's been decided by the SCOTUS that students don't have the full set of 1st Amendment rights.

So, the overall question is how good of an idea is it to limit them further?
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 4, 2011, 11:57 AM
 
So, is it the gay version of affirmative action, only for kids?

Edit: yes, it's a crude analogy.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So, is it the gay version of affirmative action, only for kids?

Edit: yes, it's a crude analogy.
You know, for kids.


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SpaceMonkey
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:11 PM
 
This isn't something I have really paid attention to, but the "anti-bullying laws" I've heard about generally aren't "laws against bullying" per se, but rather are laws that require school districts to develop policies regarding harassment of students. So it's not really a first amendment issue unless it can be shown that such policies necessarily limit expression beyond the de facto limits that already exist in a school setting.

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subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So, is it the gay version of affirmative action, only for kids?

Edit: yes, it's a crude analogy.
I'll admit, my knowledge of these are slight, but it's apparently the new big thing to do.

What I heard about was the law in Michigan, which has a clause where you can say what you want if it's a deeply held religious conviction.

To use another crude analogy, that sounds exactly like the type of dopey wrangling that goes on when trying to write hard and fast forum rules.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
This isn't something I have really paid attention to, but the "anti-bullying laws" I've heard about generally aren't "laws against bullying" per se, but rather are laws that require school districts to develop policies regarding harassment of students. So it's not really a first amendment issue unless it can be shown that such policies necessarily limit expression beyond the de facto limits that already exist in a school setting.
That's why I expanded my question. Is it a good idea?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:21 PM
 
I guess I say "why not?" I don't really understand what you mean by "limit them further." If a teacher or administrator gets wind that a student is causing a disruption with respect to another student in class or in free periods, and disciplines them in some way, isn't that already within the realm of current expectation?

I think the intention behind anti-bullying laws is to make sure that information about such incidents is shared so that school administrators can appropriately react to a pattern of disruption ("bullying"). But as I said, I'm not sure.

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subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:37 PM
 
AFAICT, the laws are all over the place. 47 states have them.
     
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is it possible to have one without infringing on a student's 1st Amendment rights?
What if the teenager wanted to excess their 1st amendment right by sending naked pictures of themselves to their friends?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 12:55 PM
 
Yeah. My first post was a little hasty. The real question I want to ask is how good of an idea this is.

Not conceptually, but practically. I mean, it seems like a good idea on paper, but I'm not sure how well this is going to work in practice.
     
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Nov 4, 2011, 01:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yeah. My first post was a little hasty. The real question I want to ask is how good of an idea this is.

Not conceptually, but practically. I mean, it seems like a good idea on paper, but I'm not sure how well this is going to work in practice.
So it isn't about 1st amendment rights, but how it's implemented.

I'm assuming it would be similar to sexual harassment issues at the workplace. You know. Educating the staff and employees on what's appropriate and what's not.

Hey hot mama. You got nice butt. Come and ride on the Cain train. I'm just expressing my 1st amendment rights and showing my appreciation for your behind.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Nov 4, 2011, 01:24 PM
 
workplace harassment laws ~= anti-bullying Laws

Bullying/harassment at the workplace ~= bullying/harassment at school
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
andi*pandi
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Nov 4, 2011, 02:11 PM
 
It seems kind of silly to go through the trouble to enact an anti-bullying law then allow a clause in it that makes exceptions for "religious or moral" grounds. I foresee a lot of people using that clause, religious or no.

What should be clear, is that calmly saying "My religion (parents, family, workplace) doesn't accept your homosexuality (color, gender, video game platform)" is not bullying. Saying, "God says you'll burn in hell faggot" is.
     
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Nov 4, 2011, 03:51 PM
 
The fact that anti-harassment laws were set up in the 70s and it took 40 years to reach the classroom demonstrates how little regard we have for youth or education in our society.
     
Doofy
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Nov 4, 2011, 04:12 PM
 
Define "bullying"?

bully 1 |ˈboŏlē|
verb ( -lies, -lied) [ trans. ]
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

Like paying tax?
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Nov 4, 2011, 04:21 PM
 
Wow, from X to complaining about taxes in one post. A new record for Doofy.

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lpkmckenna
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Nov 4, 2011, 04:58 PM
 
When Doofy was gone, it was amazing how concise discussion here had become.
     
Doofy
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Nov 4, 2011, 05:36 PM
 
Well, what's the difference between "bullying" by the fat dude at school and "bullying" by the fat dude at the tax office?

Are you not seeing the disconnect there?

Yes, of course discussion became amazingly concise while I was gone, mckenna. When I wasn't here OAW, Big Mac and Glenn decided to write three line posts. Yes.
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SpaceMonkey
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Nov 4, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
Some of us like being a member of society (which entails certain expectations, often backed up with consequences such as expulsion from the society). Nobody likes being bullied. If you can't figure out where that line is, then something is wrong with you.

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subego  (op)
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Nov 4, 2011, 10:43 PM
 
Here's sort of the angle I'm working:

Here's a PDF link to the North Dakota legislation. The site I found it on (BullyPolice.org), considers this to be "A++" legislation.

My quick reading is it's both too expansive and restricted at the same time.

A student needs to be in "actual and reasonable fear of harm", so the aforementioned "God says you'll burn in hell faggot" isn't covered. OTOH, it does cover the reception of electronic media while at school.

So, a bully can email someone from a private account while not at school, and be disciplined by the school because the recipient opened it there? That seems like a bad precedent, even if what it's trying to accomplish has good intent.
     
Shaddim
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Nov 4, 2011, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Well, what's the difference between "bullying" by the fat dude at school and "bullying" by the fat dude at the tax office?

Are you not seeing the disconnect there?

Yes, of course discussion became amazingly concise while I was gone, mckenna. When I wasn't here OAW, Big Mac and Glenn decided to write three line posts. Yes.
The fat dude says, "gimme a check for $400K" and then kicks me in the stones. It's abuse, I tell ya.
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Doofy
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Nov 5, 2011, 03:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Some of us like being a member of society (which entails certain expectations, often backed up with consequences such as expulsion from the society). Nobody likes being bullied. If you can't figure out where that line is, then something is wrong with you.
You said it right there. "Some of us like". What about the ones who don't like? They're bullied ("give us some of your money or you're going to prison", which isn't that far away from "give us your lunch money or we're going to kick the crap out of you"). Simple as that.

Nothing wrong with my logic. Perhaps you need to look at yours?
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Doofy
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Nov 5, 2011, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The fat dude says, "gimme a check for $400K" and then kicks me in the stones. It's abuse, I tell ya.
Amen.
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
besson3c
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Nov 5, 2011, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Amen.
This might not be idiotic if being rich was genetic.
     
el chupacabra
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Nov 6, 2011, 07:12 PM
 
I might be outa the loop but in my day bullying meant kids beating up other kids physically. Simply calling someone names wasn't bullying. People did all kinds of things to each other when I was a kid. I got the crap beat out of me all the time, half the time I instigated the fight, for a rush, as do many kids. I think bullying is just part of growing up; it teaches people how to deal with problems and how to look out for themselves and each other. My worst nemesis became a good friend by the end of high school. You can tell the people who never got bullied because instead of being a bunch of whiners and complainers as children they are a bunch of whiners and complainers as grown adults; the kind of people who get easily offended just by what people say to them.

oh and theres no ways any schools going to be able to make any legislation work on this... it's going to be a disaster.
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I might be outa the loop but in my day bullying meant kids beating up other kids physically. Simply calling someone names wasn't bullying.
So a group of kids cornering one kid and yelling retard or fatass isn't bullying? Giving a kid a horrible nickname like Bucky or Lardass and refusing to ever use their real name isn't bullying? Spreading mean-spirited lies and gossip about sexual behaviour or family problems isn't bullying? Ridiculous.
You can tell the people who never got bullied because instead of being a bunch of whiners and complainers as children they are a bunch of whiners and complainers as grown adults; the kind of people who get easily offended just by what people say to them.
Sure, feel free to make up whatever facts you like.
oh and theres no ways any schools going to be able to make any legislation work on this... it's going to be a disaster.
Right. Because the workplace could never solve the problem of harassment either, right?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 7, 2011, 07:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I might be outa the loop but in my day bullying meant kids beating up other kids physically. Simply calling someone names wasn't bullying. People did all kinds of things to each other when I was a kid. I got the crap beat out of me all the time, half the time I instigated the fight, for a rush, as do many kids. I think bullying is just part of growing up; it teaches people how to deal with problems and how to look out for themselves and each other. My worst nemesis became a good friend by the end of high school. You can tell the people who never got bullied because instead of being a bunch of whiners and complainers as children they are a bunch of whiners and complainers as grown adults; the kind of people who get easily offended just by what people say to them.

oh and theres no ways any schools going to be able to make any legislation work on this... it's going to be a disaster.
When you were at school did kids commit suicide because they were picked on? Or did they come into school with a bag of guns and start blowing away their classmates and teachers?

Things have changed.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ebuddy
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Nov 7, 2011, 08:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
When you were at school did kids commit suicide because they were picked on? Or did they come into school with a bag of guns and start blowing away their classmates and teachers?

Things have changed.
They certainly have including a 700% increase in the use of psychostimulants as a parental strategy.
ebuddy
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 09:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
I might be outa the loop but in my day bullying meant kids beating up other kids physically. Simply calling someone names wasn't bullying. People did all kinds of things to each other when I was a kid. I got the crap beat out of me all the time, half the time I instigated the fight, for a rush, as do many kids. I think bullying is just part of growing up; it teaches people how to deal with problems and how to look out for themselves and each other. My worst nemesis became a good friend by the end of high school. You can tell the people who never got bullied because instead of being a bunch of whiners and complainers as children they are a bunch of whiners and complainers as grown adults; the kind of people who get easily offended just by what people say to them.

oh and theres no ways any schools going to be able to make any legislation work on this... it's going to be a disaster.
Pretty sure I know which side of the bullying equation you were on as a kid ...
     
finboy
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Nov 7, 2011, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post

Now, I doubt the wisdom of addressing this with legislation, but it's similarly unwise to pretend the problem isn't there.
It may be a problem in some circumstances, but "bullying" is already illegal. It's far better to respond to it using the tools we already have (education, extreme punishment, ritual scarification, etc.).

I was on the nerdy weakling side of the equation as a kid, right up until I was directly confronted. At that point I asserted my "nationhood" and there wasn't any more bullying. In fact, just a few of us were able to turn the whole atmosphere around because we wouldn't tolerate bullying, and that persisted through high school. Besides, we had better things to worry about.

I guess you could say that the whole school ostracized the bullies (actually, most of them fell in with the rest of us). If we're ostracizing former bullies, does that make it bullying on our part? Just checking.
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 7, 2011, 03:29 PM
 
Your example doesn't really address the pervasiveness of getting shit on because you're a homosexual.
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
You said it right there. "Some of us like". What about the ones who don't like? They're bullied ("give us some of your money or you're going to prison", which isn't that far away from "give us your lunch money or we're going to kick the crap out of you"). Simple as that.

Nothing wrong with my logic. Perhaps you need to look at yours?
You asked "what the difference?" Clearly there is one as evidenced by the reaction to each. You may think the difference is immaterial, but most don't. The difference is that in the taxation example, I'm also, at least notionally, by contributing my resources performing the enforcement of a mutually agreed-upon responsibility for mutual benefit, whereas in the schoolyard bully example, it's one guy terrorizing a crowd with no mutually expected benefit.

What I don't understand is why you introduced the topic in the first place. Your one-trick pony of diverting conversation into the injustice of taxes is tiresome. You've beat the system. We get it. There's no reason to keep going back to this other than to serve your own smug self-satisfaction. That's all I'll say about that.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Nov 7, 2011 at 03:50 PM. )

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Nov 7, 2011, 06:33 PM
 
You beat the system? Spill! I'm sick of paying my taxes.

Especially when I hear that while I'm being fined over 100% of what I owe, Vodafone is being let off billions.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You beat the system? Spill! I'm sick of paying my taxes.
The information is out there, just google it [/Doofy]
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:41 PM
 
Hint: it involves living in Buckingham Palace
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Your example doesn't really address the pervasiveness of getting shit on because you're a homosexual.
... or fat or long-haired or poor or pimpled or...

I guess it's not clear what it is you're asking for that would address people getting shit on.
ebuddy
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
... or fat or long-haired or poor or pimpled or...

I guess it's not clear what it is you're asking for that would address people getting read on.

Quit the crap ebuddy, and everybody else in here taking a similar stance.

There is a reason why there are hate crimes against gays and not fat, long-haired, poor, pimpled, etc. people, it's because there are is social stigma against gays that is far more complex than these other examples. Hating gay people involves deep rooted social and religious variables, and this hatred is not just juvenile passing school kid stuff like these other examples. If this was a fair comparison, why aren't pimply people prohibited to marry in most states?

I'm sure you will do your thing and pick away at the way I've said this, but you cannot in good conscious equate being gay to being pimply. Being gay is far more complex of a genetic situation with a far more intense and broader social element to it, and you know it.

You know how the left likes to label the right as intolerant? Attitudes like this do not help, nor do they make your inflexible ideology particularly compelling to gays and other minority groups. I happen to think that the intolerance of the right is not race/sexual orientation/gender based, but more of an intolerance built into your ideology - a rigidness which makes it difficult to recognize, accept, and adopt other points of view outside of your wheelhouse, but with these sorts of attitudes this distinction is very cloudy.

I'm not asking you to overcompensate by being the PC police of tolerance and giving various groups extra rights and stuff like that, but I think it's fair to ask people to not be dicks with insulting comparisons like this which trivialize the difficulties of being gay.
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Your example doesn't really address the pervasiveness of getting shit on because you're a homosexual.
It's anecdotal, but I distinctly remember gay kids when I went to HS, but no one went out of their way to abuse them. Do you believe this is something that's getting worse? I'm starting to think it is.
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ebuddy
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Nov 7, 2011, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Quit the bribe ebuddy, and everybody else in here taking a similar stance.
Quit the bribe? What are you talking about? Specific legislation had already been mentioned and yet the question remains of how to address the bullying of gays. I wasn't clear what exactly was to be addressed. For all I know, the one bullying the gay is gay. How would I address that if not within Federal law, the laws of the city or state, and the school's own rules?

There is a reason why there are hate crimes against gays and not fat, long-haired, poor, pimpled, etc. people, it's because there are is social stigma against gays that is far more complex than these other examples. Hating gay people involves deep rooted social and religious variables, and this hatred is not just juvenile passing school kid stuff like these other examples. If this was a fair comparison, why aren't pimply people prohibited to marry in most states?
It's clear in both cases that most do not regard homosexuality and pimply skin similarly. There are not only deep rooted social and religious variables, but there are scientific variables and a stigma that transcends culture and religion.

I'm sure you will do your thing and pick away at the way I've said this, but you cannot in good conscious equate being gay to being pimply. Being gay is far more complex of a genetic situation with a far more intense and broader social element to it, and you know it.
Who said homosexuality wasn't more complex than pimply skin? You're like an animal rights activist who's only interested in protecting cute animals. I've not equated being gay with being pimply, I'm saying that these are all bullied people; what then?

As an aside, I'd be willing to bet most people have been bullied at some point in their lives.

You know how the left likes to label the right as intolerant? Attitudes like this do not help, nor do they make your inflexible ideology particularly compelling to gays and other minority groups. I happen to think that the intolerance of the right is not race/sexual orientation/gender based, but more of an intolerance built into your ideology - a rigidness which makes it difficult to recognize, accept, and adopt other points of view outside of your wheelhouse, but with these sorts of attitudes this distinction is very cloudy.
It's not inflexibility. With a little thought and some more time I'm convinced you'll understand that more measures/legislation ≠ more flexibility; that the left's unrelenting pursuit of the nerf universe is not progress for anyone.

Otherwise, you're saying that bullying and being crapped on is less harmful to pimply people than it is gays which makes you a heartless, leftist barbarian that is not welcome in the Republican tent.

I'm not asking you to overcompensate by being the PC police of tolerance and giving various groups extra rights and stuff like that, but I think it's fair to ask people to not be dicks with insulting comparisons like this which trivialize the difficulties of being gay.
It's entirely unfair when you accuse someone of doing something they hadn't done for an argument you haven't formed yet. It leads to threads in the Lounge asking why MacNN has deteriorated.
ebuddy
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 7, 2011, 10:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
It's anecdotal, but I distinctly remember gay kids when I went to HS, but no one went out of their way to abuse them. Do you believe this is something that's getting worse? I'm starting to think it is.
No idea.

I remember gay Juniors and Seniors when I was a freshman, but no one in my class of 100 people ever came out.

I was in a notably evil class though. I wouldn't have come out either.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 7, 2011, 11:04 PM
 
I don't remember any gay students when I was in high school, and that wasn't very long ago.
     
besson3c
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Nov 8, 2011, 01:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Quit the bribe? What are you talking about? Specific legislation had already been mentioned and yet the question remains of how to address the bullying of gays. I wasn't clear what exactly was to be addressed. For all I know, the one bullying the gay is gay. How would I address that if not within Federal law, the laws of the city or state, and the school's own rules?
Not bribe, crap!

Who said homosexuality wasn't more complex than pimply skin? You're like an animal rights activist who's only interested in protecting cute animals. I've not equated being gay with being pimply, I'm saying that these are all bullied people; what then?
You kind of were. How is being pimply relevant here?

It's not inflexibility. With a little thought and some more time I'm convinced you'll understand that more measures/legislation ≠ more flexibility; that the left's unrelenting pursuit of the nerf universe is not progress for anyone.

Otherwise, you're saying that bullying and being crapped on is less harmful to pimply people than it is gays which makes you a heartless, leftist barbarian that is not welcome in the Republican tent.
I did not weigh in on what legislation would be appropriate, I weighed in on you trivializing the difficulties of being gay with an unjust comparison. You are still doing it. The tribulations of being pimply do not belong in the same conversation.

It's entirely unfair when you accuse someone of doing something they hadn't done for an argument you haven't formed yet. It leads to threads in the Lounge asking why MacNN has deteriorated.
One could argue that MacNN has also deteriorated when people like yourself are unable to see that comparing being gay to pimply trivializes the difficulties of being gay, and this is speaking as a hetero.
     
ebuddy
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Nov 8, 2011, 07:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You kind of were. How is being pimply relevant here?
Because with regard to bullying, there are a wealth of people in need of protection including pimply people, fat people, etc... regardless of your cause du jour.

I did not weigh in on what legislation would be appropriate, I weighed in on you trivializing the difficulties of being gay with an unjust comparison. You are still doing it. The tribulations of being pimply do not belong in the same conversation.
Common sense is like nails on a chalk-board to you isn't it? Bullying is bullying and is traumatic for anyone experiencing it. I maintain that most have been bullied at some point in their lives, why more concern about a sect of people already protected under Federal law, most city/state laws, and the rules of the school? Again, you're like an animal rights activist who's only concerned about protecting cute animals.

One could argue that MacNN has also deteriorated when people like yourself are unable to see that comparing being gay to pimply trivializes the difficulties of being gay, and this is speaking as a hetero.
I'm talking about bullying and you're exploiting gays to make some broader statement about the right. Pull your head out of the partisan divide for a second, zealot. You're the only one equating the two at a broader scale. You've got gays calling gays sluts and others openly expressing their distaste for homosexuality, but you're going to take issue with me. Ironic that you'd resort to a bully tactic in this thread.
( Last edited by ebuddy; Nov 8, 2011 at 07:52 AM. )
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besson3c
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Nov 8, 2011, 08:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Because with regard to bullying, there are a wealth of people in need of protection including pimply people, fat people, etc... regardless of your cause du jour.


Common sense is like nails on a chalk-board to you isn't it? Bullying is bullying and is traumatic for anyone experiencing it. I maintain that most have been bullied at some point in their lives, why more concern about a sect of people already protected under Federal law, most city/state laws, and the rules of the school? Again, you're like an animal rights activist who's only concerned about protecting cute animals.


I'm talking about bullying and you're exploiting gays to make some broader statement about the right. Pull your head out of the partisan divide for a second, zealot. You're the only one equating the two at a broader scale. You've got gays calling gays sluts and others openly expressing their distaste for homosexuality, but you're going to take issue with me. Ironic that you'd resort to a bully tactic in this thread.

Get real dude.

Being bullied about being pimply is juvenile school yard stuff, I think many kid would understand that adults do not commonly hate people with pimples. Many would realize that the bully is just trying to find some way to be mean and exploit a weakness in that particular individual without genuinely hating all pimply people. Contrast this to homosexuality, there are people that genuinely hate all gays and would cast off their gayness as some sort of permanent abomination (whereas pimples often go away for kids as they grow older), something to be ashamed about deep to the person's core. Being gay is a part of your personal ID, being pimply not so much - it is a temporary problem with cures.

Really, the entire comparison is frankly ****ing retarded, I can't believe this is coming from you. I thought you were a little sharper....
     
Wiskedjak
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Nov 8, 2011, 09:26 AM
 
Bullies will bully the pimpled and gay alike. The difference is that sectors of our society *encourage* bullying of the gay kid.
     
Doofy
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Nov 8, 2011, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
You asked "what the difference?" Clearly there is one as evidenced by the reaction to each. You may think the difference is immaterial, but most don't. The difference is that in the taxation example, I'm also, at least notionally, by contributing my resources performing the enforcement of a mutually agreed-upon responsibility for mutual benefit, whereas in the schoolyard bully example, it's one guy terrorizing a crowd with no mutually expected benefit.

What I don't understand is why you introduced the topic in the first place.
Because there's no moral difference.
If you think there's a moral difference, your morals and thought processes are twisted - it's as simple as that.

I mean, "mutually agreed upon responsibility"? I think you'll find there's a great many people out there for whom "pay up or you're going to get loved up by Bubba" isn't exactly "mutual agreement".
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That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Doofy
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Nov 8, 2011, 09:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The information is out there, just google it [/Doofy]
Yes. Go Google it.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
 
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