[lpkmckenna]

So I watched the Surface intro, and I'm more impressed than I expected. It really does look like a solid platform, and I can see that the Surface Pro will probably be a strong ultrabook/tablet hybrid that many people will want. If they price it right, of course. The main problem is that it won't be available until 3 months after Window 8 hits the shelves, which means it might not be available by Christmas, a target Microsoft would be crazy to miss.

I thought the feature to automatically match the background colour to the cover colour to be a silly gimmick.

EDIT: to me, the biggest gamble for the Surface Touch Cover is: can you use it on your lap? I mean, it relies on that kickstand panel, right? That doesn't seem quite right. This works better I'm sure:


Anyways, I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Microsoft entered the computer hardware business. With computer prices continually falling, there really isn't room for both MS and OEMs to make money. Someone had to be cut out. I expect Google will follow thru with their own tablet and restrict the Nexus moniker to their own platform. And a buyout of Nokia by MS is a certainty now.

So everybody: will MS's traditional OEMs drop their tablet plans altogether or compete against Surface? I think most of them will stay away. I think the tablet market is about to become the exclusive domain of Apple, Microsoft, and Google.

[The Final Dakar]

That is a behemoth.

[Eug]

I have one of those Bluetooth keyboards. The keyboard feel sucks. It's quite protective of my iPad, but yeah it's bulky. It doesn't have to be bulky though, but even in its current form I don't think it works well on a lap. Best on a table.

I wonder if the Surface keyboard's typing feel is any better, but even if it's twice as good as mine, it will still suck.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Without a keyboard? What apps? It would be impossible for me to use my Macs with just a trackpad and no keyboard. I wouldn't even be able to surf the net.

What you're describing sounds like junk

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

What you're describing sounds like junk

Indeed. It would be plain foolish to try to run a Mac today with a trackpad and no keyboard. It would effectively be junk.

[MacinTommy]

Once "dictation" comes along with Mountain Lion it wouldn't be too terrible without a keyboard. You'd just be talking a lot.

[Eug]

I've had Dragon voice recognition on my work PC for eons. I don't use it at all anymore, but some of my colleagues do. It is impossible to use voice dictation alone without a keyboard. Voice dictation is a time saver for some and a great complement to a keyboard, esp. if your dictations use a specific and limited vocabulary, but it's not a full replacement for a keyboard by any means. Using voice dictation alone to enter in a web URL for example would be akin to using the MacBook Wheel.

Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard - YouTube

Oh and...

[Athens]

Originally Posted by P 

Not that I see what point you're trying to make, but I do use Macs with only the Magic Trackpad now and then. Works splendidly.

That could be because you failed for what ever reason to read the previous posts that I was responding to

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Without a keyboard? What apps? It would be impossible for me to use my Macs with just a trackpad and no keyboard. I wouldn't even be able to surf the net.

On screen keyboard. Its not impossible, just a horrible experience.

[Athens]

I think one thing that is going to affect the Surface is applications itself. If it is running Windows 8 and uses standard Windows applications those applications will not be designed or optimized for a touch screen. And many of them at launch wont even be optimized for Windows 8 itself.

More importantly, I don't think companies are going to invest the time and money to optimize applications with a dual input system, one for desktops and a pointer and one for touch based until they have a reason to. Its going to be the chicken and the egg scenario. If it runs Windows 8 mobile instead, what is on the Windows phone then it won't be a problem of applications designed around a touch interface it will be a lack of applications itself.

I don't see the Surface selling well due to the software experience issues I can see developing.

[Salty]

The problem is Windows 8 is the epitome of Microsoft trying to slap a new paradigm on top of the old. They're concept hoarders. They can't let go of any way that some obscure customer might like to do something. They never just say, look we found a better way to do it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Salty 

The problem is Windows 8 is the epitome of Microsoft trying to slap a new paradigm on top of the old. They're concept hoarders. They can't let go of any way that some obscure customer might like to do something. They never just say, look we found a better way to do it.

Well, to do what you suggest would be insanely stupid for MS. They'd lose all of their existing enterprise customers.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, to do what you suggest would be insanely stupid for MS. They'd lose all of their existing enterprise customers.

Or some will bite the bullet and upgrade and some will wait until forced to and then do so reluctantly. Not every "enterprise" user is using special, custom legacy software. Many are just using Outlook and IE. It sucks that the 90% (making up a number) of windows users have a worse experience because of the 10% of users at some big company that wrote software 20 years ago and don't want to modernize it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I think one thing that is going to affect the Surface is applications itself. If it is running Windows 8 and uses standard Windows applications those applications will not be designed or optimized for a touch screen. And many of them at launch wont even be optimized for Windows 8 itself.

More importantly, I don't think companies are going to invest the time and money to optimize applications with a dual input system, one for desktops and a pointer and one for touch based until they have a reason to. Its going to be the chicken and the egg scenario. If it runs Windows 8 mobile instead, what is on the Windows phone then it won't be a problem of applications designed around a touch interface it will be a lack of applications itself.

I don't see the Surface selling well due to the software experience issues I can see developing.

Exactly.

And by building this stupid hybrid thing in desperate hope of maintaining their user base by ensuring legacy compatibility, they're simultaneously making it unlikely that THEY will be part of the future when customers actually move over to next-generation devices (since the iPad is the platform with next-generation software).

I'm not saying it's impossible, but this sort of muddled message is certainly not going to help.

Coupled with the big "**** you" they've just pulled on their Windows 8 OEM partners by demonstrating a competing product line of their own...

...We shall see.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And by building this stupid hybrid thing in desperate hope of maintaining their user base by ensuring legacy compatibility, they're simultaneously making it unlikely that THEY will be part of the future when customers actually move over to next-generation devices (since the iPad is the platform with next-generation software).

Well, it remains to be seen. I'm not overly impressed with their Metro on Windows implementation, but their Metro-by-itself approach for the ARM Surface does have merit. Remember, even iOS is a heavily optimized and cut down version of Mac OS X. Metro in several ways is very similar. Metro also adds some advantages over the iOS model like common drivers, etc.

I personally do think these two markets will eventually converge, although not as soon as some people think, and even Apple is adding elements of iOS to Mac OS X.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Coupled with the big "**** you" they've just pulled on their Windows 8 OEM partners by demonstrating a competing product line of their own...

I don't think this is a big deal at all. It's almost like acting like a reference platform, similar to the Google Nexus line.

[Athens]

IF I was a software developer, I would totally ignore a Touch based gui for my software until the sale numbers of the Surface warranted it. I would update to some elements of Metro since the desktop will be using Metro but overall my software would remain pointer based until it was needed to be touch and pointer based.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, to do what you suggest would be insanely stupid for MS. They'd lose all of their existing enterprise customers.

Where'd they turn to? I think that's Microsoft's biggest leverage to make this transition: there is no alternative to them.

[Waragainstsleep]

Microsoft have long been held back by having to support ancient software.