[rambo47]

From CNN.

Besides just leaving and abandoning the Iraqis to their "who-the-hell-cares" fate or the Nuclear Option or simply sterilizing the entire region, is their any hope left? Was there any hope to begin with?

[Nicko]

Originally posted by rambo47:
From CNN.

Besides just leaving and abandoning the Iraqis to their "who-the-hell-cares" fate or the Nuclear Option or simply sterilizing the entire region, is their any hope left? Was there any hope to begin with?

....not with thinking like that.

[rambo47]

O.K. I'm saying I'm fresh out of ideas. What have you got?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by rambo47:
O.K. I'm saying I'm fresh out of ideas. What have you got?

Selflessly helping Iraqis to build the society they want? Offering them a true independent democracy that has no more ties to the US than they want? Lead by example and demonstrate to the rest of the Arab world that the US did not invade Iraq for their own political, economical or special interests. The options are so many.

Damn idiots that kill hostages. They will pay.

[Logic]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Selflessly helping Iraqis to build the society they want? Offering them a true independent democracy that has no more ties to the US than they want? Lead by example and demonstrate to the rest of the Arab world that the US did not invade Iraq for their own political, economical or special interests. The options are so many.

Damn idiots that kill hostages. They will pay.

"No prisoner should be put to the sword" said Muhammed(pbuh)

[ghost_flash]

Find out where they are and bomb the entire place. When you kill your own hostages, the enemy will think twice before taking them.

[yakkiebah]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Selflessly helping Iraqis to build the society they want? Offering them a true independent democracy that has no more ties to the US than they want? Lead by example and demonstrate to the rest of the Arab world that the US did not invade Iraq for their own political, economical or special interests. The options are so many.

Damn idiots that kill hostages. They will pay.

If it doesn't involve guns, bombs 'n bullits it must be appeasment.

[sanity assassin]

What's the difference between a US Jet dropping bombs on Iraqis, killing indiscriminately, in an illegal war, that the Iraqis don't want; and a couple of iraqis fighting back for their land, using the meagre means they have, and killing nowhere near as many people as the coalition does?

Not much, except the hypocrisy, and propogand rhetoric of the mightier power.

Go Iraq! fight the invading bastards!

[deedar]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Selflessly helping Iraqis to build the society they want? Offering them a true independent democracy that has no more ties to the US than they want? Lead by example and demonstrate to the rest of the Arab world that the US did not invade Iraq for their own political, economical or special interests. The options are so many.

Damn idiots that kill hostages. They will pay.

You put it quite well. Bravo.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
What's the difference between a US Jet dropping bombs on Iraqis, killing indiscriminately, in an illegal war, that the Iraqis don't want; and a couple of iraqis fighting back for their land, using the meagre means they have, and killing nowhere near as many people as the coalition does?

Not much, except the hypocrisy, and propogand rhetoric of the mightier power.

Go Iraq! fight the invading bastards!

I guess we all know what side you are on now don't we.?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I guess we all know what side you are on now don't we.?

Yeah. He's with the good guys

[rambo47]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
What's the difference between a US Jet dropping bombs on Iraqis, killing indiscriminately, in an illegal war, that the Iraqis don't want; and a couple of iraqis fighting back for their land, using the meagre means they have, and killing nowhere near as many people as the coalition does?

Not much, except the hypocrisy, and propogand rhetoric of the mightier power.

Go Iraq! fight the invading bastards!

Is this really what you see happening over in Iraq? This is your view of what is going on?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by rambo47:
Is this really what you see happening over in Iraq? This is your view of what is going on?

Wait wait wait... what do you see happening in Iraq??

[Spliffdaddy]

from my window:

The Iraqis are dancing in the streets by the millions. They appear to be cheering and chanting, in broken English, "four more for dubya!".

The local children are attending Sunday School and there seems to be a Wal-Mart under construction at the end of the street.


edit:

I just saw coalition forces uncover a huge stockpile of hidden WMD.

[rambo47]

I see a bloody war being waged on Sadam's regime and terrorists. We went there to remove a bad, bad man from power and give the people of Iraq a chance to for their own government. Hopefully the new government will represent the will of the majority and be a stabilizing influence on the region. In a few months we're leaving and going to hand the keys over to elected Iraqi leaders. What they do with their freedom then is up to them.

Does anybody believe we're there for fun, to kill Muslims just because they're Muslim? That our intention is to kill civilians and children indiscriminently, and to rob the freedom from Iraq? Maybe grab all that oil for ourselves like we did when we "invaded" Kuwait?

[Logic]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
from my window:

The Iraqis are dancing in the streets by the millions. They appear to be cheering and chanting, in broken English, "four more for dubya!".

The local children are attending Sunday School and there seems to be a Wal-Mart under construction at the end of the street.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by rambo47:
I see a bloody war being waged on Sadam's regime and terrorists. We went there to remove a bad, bad man from power and give the people of Iraq a chance to for their own government. Hopefully the new government will represent the will of the majority and be a stabilizing influence on the region. In a few months we're leaving and going to hand the keys over to elected Iraqi leaders. What they do with their freedom then is up to them.

Does anybody believe we're there for fun, to kill Muslims just because they're Muslim? That our intention is to kill civilians and children indiscriminently, and to rob the freedom from Iraq? Maybe grab all that oil for ourselves like we did when we "invaded" Kuwait?

I see a nation rising up against incompetent occupation forces. They want freedom for sure, and the occupation forces seem unable to deliver. Away with them. These people are not terrorists. These people are freedom fighters. True patriots. You are in their country.

[Spliffdaddy]

technically, Iraq is *our* country.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
from my window:

The Iraqis are dancing in the streets by the millions. They appear to be cheering and chanting, in broken English, "four more for dubya!".

The local children are attending Sunday School and there seems to be a Wal-Mart under construction at the end of the street.


edit:

I just saw coalition forces uncover a huge stockpile of hidden WMD.

You should be a speechwriter for W. God knows he needs someone spirited like yourself.

Seriously though, I understand what you are saying. And I see it too.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
technically, Iraq is *our* country.

Trick is to explain that to all them Iraqis. I'm not hard to convince

[swrate]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
technically, Iraq is *our* country.

That is exactly why Freedom for Iraqis is just an utopia.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I don't see anything in this thread that acknowledges that Fabrizio Quattrocchi was a human being murdered for no reason. All I see is the usual posturing. So I'll post this:

"ROME, April 15 (Reuters) -...Fabrizio Quattrocchi, one of four Italian security guards abducted [in Iraq] earlier this week, was shot dead on Wednesday after Italy refused to bow to the kidnappers' demands that it withdraw its troops from Iraq. Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said a video recording of the killing showed that Quattrocchi was hooded when his kidnappers put a gun to his head. "When the murderers were pointing a pistol at him, this man tried to take off his hood and shouted: 'Now I'm going to show you how an Italian dies'. And they killed him," Frattini said. "He died a hero," he added..."

Brave man.

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by rambo47:
I see a bloody war being waged on Sadam's regime and terrorists. We went there to remove a bad, bad man from power and give the people of Iraq a chance to for their own government. Hopefully the new government will represent the will of the majority and be a stabilizing influence on the region. In a few months we're leaving and going to hand the keys over to elected Iraqi leaders. What they do with their freedom then is up to them.

Does anybody believe we're there for fun, to kill Muslims just because they're Muslim? That our intention is to kill civilians and children indiscriminently, and to rob the freedom from Iraq? Maybe grab all that oil for ourselves like we did when we "invaded" Kuwait?

I thought you were there for WEPPERNS OF MARSS DERSRUCTIEN??? READY IN 45 MINUTES? EAST AND WEST AND NORTH OF BAGHDAD? MAKING THE U.S. A MORE SAVIER PLACE? SAVING THE WURRRLD? No?????

PB.

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't see anything in this thread that acknowledges that Fabrizio Quattrocchi was a human being murdered for no reason. All I see is the usual posturing. So I'll post this:

<,,,>

Brave man.

Before you start his fanclub, maybe this "hero story" is a as staged as Private Jessica Lynch's ???

PB.

[PacHead]

Al Jazeera probably refused to show the video because the brave Italian wouldnt give in to the animals, with his words of defiance right before his life ended.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Before you start his fanclub, maybe this "hero story" is a as staged as Private Jessica Lynch's ???

PB.

And exactly what is your purpose in saying that?

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Before you start his fanclub, maybe this "hero story" is a as staged as Private Jessica Lynch's? <fixed, one question mark suffices>

PB.

Why do you write these things? I think you must be some young and inexperienced person who just doesn't have enough life experience, but the attitude to make up the difference in what you really don't understand. I remember High School too.

GF.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't see anything in this thread that acknowledges that Fabrizio Quattrocchi was a human being murdered for no reason. All I see is the usual posturing.

...

Brave man.

Fabrizio Quattrocchi was most likely a tool of the occupation - far from innocent in the eyes of the people fighting for their country back.

Brave, yes - but, free of guilt? Unlikely.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Fabrizio Quattrocchi was most likely a tool of the occupation - far from innocent in the eyes of the people fighting for their country back.

Brave, yes - but free of guilt? unlikely.

Here you have your acknolwedgement of a "Brave Man" and also the benefit of the usual posturing.

What you just said, I liken to saying a person is indeed "Brave" and then spitting on his grave.


Edit: (These comments added.)

Eclipse: It makes me incensed that you would say such a thing. "but free of guilt? unlikely."
Is that some form of support for the *men* and I use the term men very very loosely here, who murdered him in cold blood while he was tied, and had a hood over his head?

You are a sick, perverse person to say such an obviously BAITING, apologetic, Terrorist Sympathizing, thing.

[eklipse]

Bravery does not always imply righteousness.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Bravery does not always imply righteousness.

I edited my statement to add a few choice words on how low I think you are.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I edited my statement to add a few choice words on how low I think you are.

Good for you.

Let it all out - it will make you feel better.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Good for you.

Let it all out - it will make you feel better.

Does it make you feel better to spit on the grave of a "Brave" man who was Murdered? It was the response that you invited and where begging for, so I abliged you. I don't understand how your type of personality is allowed to post bait-after-bait without reprocussions.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Does it make you feel better to spit on the grave of a "Brave" man who was Murdered? It was the response that you invited and where begging for, so I abliged you. I don't understand how your type of personality is allowed to post bait-after-bait without reprocussions.

The man was aiding an occupation. To an insurgency force, fighting for the liberation of their country, he is therefore seen as fair-game.

He was a brave man for entering into occupied Iraq (with conditions such as they are) and if the statements issued by the Italian officials are accurate, then he died showing exemplary bravery, patriotism and honor. I respect him for that - I respect anyone for that. That does not mean I sympathize with his cause and that does not mean I regard him as an innocent, killed for no reason.

[daimoni]

.

[Logic]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Kidnappers killing hostages is a cowardly thing.

But I find it interesting how some of these so-called 'civilians' being killed are actually corporate mercenaries.

Uh, I mean 'security personal'. Or whatever they're being called now.

This war is being run by business executives. Bean counters.

The correct term would be "reconstruction contractors".

But lets call them what they are. Mercenaries.

[Spliffdaddy]

unarmed mercenaries?

[daimoni]

.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Selflessly helping Iraqis to build the society they want? Offering them a true independent democracy that has no more ties to the US than they want? Lead by example and demonstrate to the rest of the Arab world that the US did not invade Iraq for their own political, economical or special interests. The options are so many.

Damn idiots that kill hostages. They will pay.

Damn good Kung-Fu.

[Logic]

illegal combatants?

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Does it make you feel better to spit on the grave of a "Brave" man who was Murdered? It was the response that you invited and where begging for, so I abliged you. I don't understand how your type of personality is allowed to post bait-after-bait without reprocussions.

Whoah! Tough talking. But I saw this one too:


PB.

[Powerbook]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
And exactly what is your purpose in saying that?

My purpose?! None. But i am wondering that you, more the man of "dry facts" are willing to be the first in line of fairytelling. So what's your purpose?
Again, check what's left of the Jessica Lynch myth - you support this kind of "journalism" ?
Regarding the hostage (and before the Zimtroll hits me) - it's sad that he is dead. I see that with the same sadness as to any other of the 10.000 victims in this war. But unlike most of them he had a choice of being there and so he decided. I don't see a place for bravery or heroism here.


PB.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Brave, yes - but, free of guilt? Unlikely.

Unintentional self parody alert.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
Whoah! Tough talking. But I saw this one too:


PB.

Ok. Junior.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
So what's your purpose?

To honor someone who died bravely for civilization. It's nice to know there are a couple left in Europe. It's just a shame there is one less than there was before.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Powerbook:
I don't see a place for bravery or heroism here.


PB.

You don't? What would you know of it?


Don't you have some homework to do?

[eklipse]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Unintentional self parody alert.

eh?

[ghost_flash]

There should be some sort of test given to be allowed to post in these forums. The shear lack of maturity is astounding.

[swrate]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
To honor someone who died bravely for civilization. It's nice to know there are a couple left in Europe. It's just a shame there is one less than there was before.

I think making Money fast was more a motivation to him then civilization, sorry to disappoint you. Yet he died with honour and bravura.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by swrate:
I think making Money fast was more a motivation to him then civilization, sorry to disappoint you. Yet he died with honour and bravura.

I already knew why he went there. It doesn't alter in any way what he died for.

And my disappointment isn't for him. Only for those with so little humanity and faith in civilization that they think it is appropriate or impressive to mock him.