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Al Gore On the Limits of Executive Power
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Mac Elite
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saw this and found it interesting, so thought I'd share:
Congressman Barr and I have disagreed many times over the years, but we have joined together today with thousands of our fellow citizens-Democrats and Republicans alike-to express our shared concern that America's Constitution is in grave danger.
In spite of our differences over ideology and politics, we are in strong agreement that the American values we hold most dear have been placed at serious risk by the unprecedented claims of the Administration to a truly breathtaking expansion of executive power.
more> http://www.algore.org/index.php?opti...325&Itemid=292
I think the content of it is also pertinent to what is happening to the UK as well.
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Originally Posted by moodymonster
Wonderful opportunity to learn by observing the actions of two leading Democrats, both of whom I thought MIGHT vie for the '08 nomination, until I read this post. Now I know it will be Hilary; and Al will not be running.
What Gore is doing here is the work of a pawn, knight or bishop. It's important to the Dem's hopes in the fall and in two years, but it's not the best idea to get involved in a dirty, nasty mission that has little hopes for success, if you intend to run for President.
What Hilary is doing is LETTING Gore do this necessary job while she stays out of this kind of thing. It doesn't look Presidential and can only help the peripheries of a campaign.
She is waiting to make the moves only the Queen can and should make.
I'm announcing my prediction. Hilary WILL run. Gore will NOT.
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Baninated
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This coming from a guy that was part of the administration that arrested people for saying things the President didn't like.
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Originally Posted by Kevin
This coming from a guy that was part of the administration that arrested people for saying things the President didn't like.
Link/Example ? Explanation of how your link/example matches or exceeds the current executive stance that not only can they arrest anyone they like, they can hold them indefinitely without charge ? Prior administrations, Dem and Rep, doubtless did many legally shady things with regards to arrests. This administration's assertion that it is legally 'OK' to do these things is what is unprecedented.
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Originally Posted by Krusty
Link/Example ? Explanation of how your link/example matches or exceeds the current executive stance that not only can they arrest anyone they like, they can hold them indefinitely without charge ? Prior administrations, Dem and Rep, doubtless did many legally shady things with regards to arrests. This administration's assertion that it is legally 'OK' to do these things is what is unprecedented.
http://www.injusticeline.com/freespch.html
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ed#post2946542
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Thanks for doing that for me abe. 
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I remember when I first began posting here and Kevin, you were already a legend. I always remember how much of an ignoramus I felt when (as a Bush opponent) I debated you.
You thrashed me good and regularly. And then you posted the link to the Lee Harris essay and a lightbulb came on for me.
I have you to thank in many respects for being the poster I am today and for my understanding of the big, the important picture.
Yeah, and your integrity, kindness and decency has shown itself in many ways noticed by the readers here and in some ways unknown to them.
Originally Posted by Kevin
Thanks for doing that for me abe.
So, yeah, it's MY pleasure!  
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This current administration has worked hard at expanding the executive powers of the president.
They've also set up some dangerous dynamics; anybody who criticizes the president’s agenda is unpatriotic or a terrorist sympathizer. The president has gotten around due process (The gitmo prison), getting judicial permissions for wire taps and has acted in dubious manner. Such as their selective leaking of data, i.e., naming a CIA operative when that actually put her in danger, but they go on a witch hunt for the people who leaked the story of the illegal gulags the CIA held in Europe.
You have to wonder why his approval rating is in the 30’s and still dropping but he keeps on doing the same old thing – Senator McCarthy would be proud of his actions 
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~Mike
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Originally Posted by Maflynn
This current administration has worked hard at expanding the executive powers of the president.
They've also set up some dangerous dynamics; anybody who criticizes the president’s agenda is unpatriotic or a terrorist sympathizer. The president has gotten around due process (The gitmo prison), getting judicial permissions for wire taps and has acted in dubious manner. Such as their selective leaking of data, i.e., naming a CIA operative when that actually put her in danger, but they go on a witch hunt for the people who leaked the story of the illegal gulags the CIA held in Europe.
You have to wonder why his approval rating is in the 30’s and still dropping but he keeps on doing the same old thing – Senator McCarthy would be proud of his actions
Have you, or any of you ever stopped to consider why we might think people who criticize the War on Terror's Iraq Campaign are unpatriotic or sympathizing with the terrorists?
I can tell you it isn't a debating tactic. I wouldn't go along with that.
It isn't a way to simply silence administration critics. I wouldn't go along with that.
And so, three years later, sincere Americans like yourself are still wanting to feel good about your government and still hoping that your point of view will be met with more than the same debating tactics and heavy-handed tactics designed to silence your voice of Constitutionally protected criticism.
Well, there is a risk that by telling you a thing you will discount it, but if you discover it for yourself it will ring true and make sense.
So, I'll just repeat what I said before and hope with that knowledge you will be prompted to search for the answers you seek in different ways and in different places.
No one wants you to shut up just to stop you from debating your side. There have been a few times when I felt I've eliminated all opposition in certain threads and WISHED I hadn't. There really is a lot of fun to be had in arguing these issues. Just for the sake of arguing.
And, as hurtful as it sometimes is when we have to recognize the administration may not be perfect in all things as we might have you believe that we believe, the fact is that, just like you love your spouse you can also recognize their shortcomings, but you defend them to the hilt because they are your partner.
Your voice needs to be heard and the voice of opposition is one of the things that makes this country great. But just because the Constitution grants free speech and just because conservatives honor free speech doesn't mean we have to accept yours or anyone's misinformed or ultimately self defeating philosophies as anything but a pile of crap.
So, here it is. I welcome your opposition and support your right to voice your opinion.
Your side just happens to be misinformed and your points of view and actions are ultimately self defeating and work to encourage and strengthen the enemy.
Now, your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to discover why I believe as I do.
And I will help you with any questions you might have along the way to finding the answer.
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Posting Junkie
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ummmm .... gotta link that doesn't reference a conspiracy theory site?
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I hope you are joking and not actually THAT clueless. But, alas, your follow up post to Zimphire indicates that you are.
There are laws which set guidelines for arrest and detention. Mendoza's arrest (though certainly unseemly and apparently politically motivated) conforms to those laws. A reason for arrest was given ("disorderly conduct") and then she was released 12hrs later and the charges dropped (and any Barney Fife law enforcement officer is allowed to arrest and hold you for AT LEAST 24 hrs with no charge). What Clinton's band of thugs did, while certainly nothing to be proud of, falls completely within the realm of what any normal police outfit can do to any citizen and its outlined within the law.
In short, you "example" doesn't work as far as showing an instance where Clinton's thugs assumed the right of arrest without charge and unlimited detention which was the question in my post and the assumption that Bush's cronies are making.
Please try harder to actually address the point next time
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
ummmm .... gotta link that doesn't reference a conspiracy theory site?
Yes. So sorry. Here's one you might try.
Google
Enables users to search the Web, Usenet, and images. Features include PageRank, caching and translation of results, and an option to find similar pages.
www.google.com/ - 4k - Apr 25, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
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Originally Posted by Krusty
I hope you are joking and not actually THAT clueless. But, alas, your follow up post to Zimphire indicates that you are.
There are laws which set guidelines for arrest and detention. Mendoza's arrest (though certainly unseemly and apparently politically motivated) conforms to those laws. A reason for arrest was given ("disorderly conduct") and then she was released 12hrs later and the charges dropped (and any Barney Fife law enforcement officer is allowed to arrest and hold you for AT LEAST 24 hrs with no charge). What Clinton's band of thugs did, while certainly nothing to be proud of, falls completely within the realm of what any normal police outfit can do to any citizen and its outlined within the law.
In short, you "example" doesn't work as far as showing an instance where Clinton's thugs assumed the right of arrest without charge and unlimited detention which was the question in my post and the assumption that Bush's cronies are making.
Please try harder to actually address the point next time
I think I gave you what you needed.
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Originally Posted by abe
Yes. So sorry. Here's one you might try.
I'm not here to do your research and provide credible sources for your arguments.
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Last edited by Wiskedjak; Apr 28, 2006 at 08:58 AM.
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Mac Elite
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Originally Posted by Krusty
There are laws which set guidelines for arrest and detention. Mendoza's arrest (though certainly unseemly and apparently politically motivated) conforms to those laws. A reason for arrest was given ("disorderly conduct") and then she was released 12hrs later and the charges dropped (and any Barney Fife law enforcement officer is allowed to arrest and hold you for AT LEAST 24 hrs with no charge). What Clinton's band of thugs did, while certainly nothing to be proud of, falls completely within the realm of what any normal police outfit can do to any citizen and its outlined within the law.
In short, you "example" doesn't work as far as showing an instance where Clinton's thugs assumed the right of arrest without charge and unlimited detention which was the question in my post and the assumption that Bush's cronies are making.
Ahhh Barney Fife.... when will he stop making me laugh...
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
I'm not here to do your research and provide credible sources for your arguments.
You've got it bass ackwards, there, Wiskedjak.
I gave you a link and a source.
If you don't like it, then YOU do the research and YOU point out where the source might be wrong.
If you can't, then oh well...
That kind of expectation and 'logic' reminds me of my ex-wife. Ha!
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Originally Posted by abe
You've got it bass ackwards, there, Wiskedjak.
I gave you a link and a source.
If you don't like it, then YOU do the research and YOU point out where the source might be wrong.
But, there-in sits my point. I couldn't find your story anywhere covered in acceptable detail and by more credible sources. I suspect you couldn't either, since you would otherwise have used a source other than a conspiracy-theory site.
The fact that your conspiracy-theory site doesn't offer all the details and that neither of us could find a more credible source, suggests to me that there isn't much to this story.
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Last edited by Wiskedjak; Apr 29, 2006 at 10:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
But, there-in sits my point. I couldn't find your story anywhere covered in acceptable detail and by more credible sources. I suspect you couldn't either, since you would otherwise have used a source other than a conspiracy-theory site.
The fact that your conspiracy-theory site doesn't offer all the details and that neither of us could find a more credible source, suggests to me that there isn't much to this story.
Clinton Rejects Freedom of Speech!
In the summer of 1996 Glenn and Patricia Mendoza attended A Taste of Chicago, in Chicago, Illinois. An event which President Clinton was also attending. ...
www.justicejunction.com/government_ clinton_rejects_freedom_of_speech.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
Clinton Fights Freedom of Speech
Patricia and Glenn Mendoza victims of disturbing new trend. Patricia Mendoza of Westchester, Illinois was unfortunate enough to be in Chicago this summer ...
www.injusticeline.com/freespch.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
CIAO Contributors
Richard N. Cooper CFIA Executive Committee (on leave fall 1996). ... John K. Glenn, Carnegie Endowment in Post-Communist Societies. ...
www.ciaonet.org/contrib.html - 278k - Cached - Similar pages
Bob Beckel on Politics ( Powered By Open Bulletin Board )
In the summer of 1996 Glenn and Patricia Mendoza attended A Taste of Chicago, ... Either way I did in fact check out the Mendoza incident but found no ...
www.bobbeckel.com/board/read.php?TID=207 - 38k - Cached - Similar pages
Bob Beckel on Politics ( Powered By Open Bulletin Board )
[quote]In the summer of 1996 Glenn and Patricia Mendoza attended A Taste of Chicago, in Chicago, Illinois. An event which President Clinton was also ...
www.bobbeckel.com/board/post.php?action=reply& TID=207&PID=2781&page=1 - 36k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.bobbeckel.com ]
The Political Graveyard: Index to Politicians: Mena to Mercado
Presidential Elector for Texas, 1996. Still living as of 1996. Mendoza ... MENDSEN: See also Patricia Smith-Mendsen. Menees, Thomas (1823-1905) — of ...
politicalgraveyard.com/bio/mena-mercado.html - 55k - Cached - Similar pages
Asymmetrical Information: Statistically significant chance of ...
All White House employees are routinely checked every five years Patricia and Glenn Mendoza. Patricia Mendoza shouted remark at the president during 1996 ...
www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/003302.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
Euro-Socialists Say - Assassinate Bush - September 25, 2004
At a rally shortly after the (unanswered) bombing of the Khobar Towers in 1996, Glenn and Patricia Mendoza told President Clinton, “You suck, and those boys ...
www.ifa-usapray.org/.../ Euro-Socialists%20Say%20-%20Assassinate%20Bush%20-%20September%2025,%202004.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
1996 BOT Minutes
... with the absence of Pam Peterson, Patricia Seiders and Glenn Heckmann. ... Larry Mendoza reported on the status of the 1994 and 1996 bond programs. ...
www.dripping-springs.k12.tx.us/ BOTFolder/minutes1996.html - 111k - Cached - Similar pages
President Elect - 1996
In 1996, the electorate seemed to be voting for the status quo. ... Bill Armistead, Pat Duncan, Glen Dunlap, Len Gavin, Henry King, Melba Peters, ...
www.presidentelect.org/e1996.html - 108k - Cached - Similar pages
'Man' Goes on anti-Bush Tirade during Bush Q&A
See the July 1996 story of Glenn and Patricia Mendoza of Chicago. Patricia Mendoza's "tirade" included 1960s-era expressions so familiar to the likes of the ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611362/posts - 40k - Cached - Similar pages
WorldNetDaily: Does IRS have political hit list?
Mrs. Gray's experience is not unlike that of Patricia Mendoza, ... However, a month following Mrs. Mendoza's protest shout, Glenn Mendoza received a letter ...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=16541 - 41k - Apr 27, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
WorldNetDaily: The IRS' Enemies List
Patricia and Glenn Mendoza: Patricia Mendoza shouted remark at the president during 1996 campaign stop in Chicago Kent Masterson Brown: attorney who ...
www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16610 - 31k - Cached - Similar pages
Trinidad Sanchez Jr.
Patricia Mendoza - I was very moved by the poem Why Am I So Brown? ... Performances by Theatre Grottesco, Glen Mannisto, Trinidad S hez Jr. Lolita ...
www.trinidadjr.org/index.php?m=200501 - 137k - Cached - Similar pages
President Clinton had Couple Arrested for Insulting Him!
... light yesterday when Glenn and Patricia Mendoza were placed under arrest by Chicago police ... They are scheduled to appear in court on August 27, 1996. ...
www.dailyrepublican.com/clintoninsulted.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages
NARA | Federal Register | US Electoral College
In the 1996 Presidential Election, 538 electors cast 379 votes for Bill ... Narciso Mendoza. UTAH -- 5 electoral votes cast for Bob Dole and Jack Kemp ...
www.archives.gov/federal-register/ electoral-college/votes/members_1996.html - 45k - Cached - Similar pages
Marks World
In 1996 Glenn and Patricia Mendoza attended A Taste of Chicago event, in Chicago, Illinois. President Clinton was also attending. ...
salisburymark.blogspot.com/2006/ 02/she-is-one-tremendous-human-being.html - 39k - Cached - Similar pages
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Clinically Insane
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Busted Link.
You already gave that one.
It's a long-ass list of contributors, relevance?
An internet forum? That's a good source?
Originally Posted by abe
politicalgraveyard.com/bio/mena-mercado.html
A web site about U.S. political history and cemeteries. Relevance?
A blog with a dead link... wheeee!
Busted.
Busted.
Election results. Relevance?
Another internet forum... 
No axe to grind at this website.
Dude, this is about a high school poetry reading. Did you even look at these links?
"Daily Republican" fair and balanced... to Republicans.
Busted. When I fixed it I get more election results. Relevance?
Originally Posted by abe
salisburymark.blogspot.com/2006/ 02/she-is-one-tremendous-human-being.html
Busted.
Big waste of my time. Thanks for nothing. 
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Clinically Insane
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FWIW. I personally don't need "lefty" verification of this event. It probably happened more or less as transcribed in your original link.
It's not justifiable. Nor are the IRS audits mentioned in a few of your links justifiable.
So with that out of the way, can we get back to the speech itself? I agree with your initial analysis, and would be interested as to your opinion of the efficacy of AG's maneuver.
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Originally Posted by abe
[buncha random links]
Perhaps you misunderstood "credible"?
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Credible to Abe means only that he believes the information is true and noteworthy.
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I'd even accept Fox News as credible ...
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
I'd even accept Fox News as credible ...
Just to show that I play fair I submit two links for the jury's consideration:
This is a usenet post from back in the day that reprints a slice of the Washington Times' coverage. Anyone who knows Chicago politics will be amused to hear the Mendoza's attorney in this case was none other than "Fast" Eddie Vrdolyak.
This is a Chicago Sun-Times archive search (I got nothing from the Tribune). The relevant portion is 3/4 of the way down. You have to pay to play for everything past the first paragraph.
Survey says... Legit.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Perhaps you misunderstood "credible"?
There's little doubt the event occurred. Just like I remember a report only carried by bloggers where Cindy Sheehan had said some REALLY crazy things at a rally in San Francisco.
You guys balked at the credibility of the report, saying that unless it was reported by a CREDIBLE news source that you couldn't believe it had happened at all.
I think it's important that we keep in mind the old philosophy question...
If a tree falls in the woods does it make any sound if there is no one around to hear it?
Or, in this case, does an event not exist unless covered by CREDIBLE news sources?
Do they cover 100% of every news event that happens around the world? No.
Do they publish or broadcast 100% of everything they cover? No.
Is the media subject to censorship due to various reasons? Yes.
If you invented the airplane and there were no CREDIBLE news reporters there would that mean you hadn't invented ANYTHING?
In the case of Sheehan, the doubters had to concede she had said the things that were alleged by the bloggers when an audio or video tape of the event surfaced.
During the 2004 campaign or thereafter I recall seeing no shortage of sites covering these arrests. They seem to be harder to come by now.
Someone more cynical than I might conclude that a conspiracy exists or an effort was made to erase these citations from the record.
Could the people who were involved in a shady land deal where almost all the others were imprisoned but they; could the people who made the death of Vince Foster synonymous with high stakes secret political misdeeds; could the people responsible for selling/giving missile technology to China and allowing N. Korea to become a nuclear power and standing by as international terrorism grew bolder with their attacks, could those folks, the same ones who HAD THE HECKLERS ARRESTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, could they apply pressure to remove information that might be harmful to an upcoming Presidential run?
You tell me.
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Originally Posted by subego
Just to show that I play fair I submit two links for the jury's consideration:
This is a usenet post from back in the day that reprints a slice of the Washington Times' coverage. Anyone who knows Chicago politics will be amused to hear the Mendoza's attorney in this case was none other than "Fast" Eddie Vrdolyak.
This is a Chicago Sun-Times archive search (I got nothing from the Tribune). The relevant portion is 3/4 of the way down. You have to pay to play for everything past the first paragraph.
Survey says... Legit.
You have redeemed your reputation with this example of principle and industry.
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And with Subego's fine post, what say you NOW, oh skilled carpenter with the bitchin truck? (I hope you have a bed liner in the back and I think spray on is probably the best, everything considered. Right?)
Originally Posted by sek929
Credible to Abe means only that he believes the information is true and noteworthy.
Yes, that's the highest test there is.
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Last edited by abe; Apr 29, 2006 at 07:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
I'd even accept Fox News as credible ...
Na-na-na-na-na-na!
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Perhaps you misunderstood "credible"?
Wow, are you denying these things happened?
Really?
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Originally Posted by Kevin
Wow, are you denying these things happened?
Really?
Where did Wiskedjak say that? At most he said the story amounts to "not much" pending a source better than someone's blog.
How do you get from there to a denial?
Being incredulous over the denial he never made in the first place is a nice touch though. +1 for style.
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Last edited by subego; Apr 29, 2006 at 09:35 PM.
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subedo if he isn't denying it happening, why is he insisting on more/better proof?
If he believed it did happen, he wouldn't need any.
NOW, if he believes it happened and is still chiding abe, well that would just make him a troll.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Originally Posted by Kevin
subedo if he isn't denying it happening, why is he insisting on more/better proof?
Suspended judgment is a pillar of skepticism.
Sheesh. With all the BS that flies around here I can't believe you could fault someone for demanding credible evidence to an assertion.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Originally Posted by Kevin
Wow, are you denying these things happened?
Really?
A little bit of projection on your part?
Nowhere do I question that the event occurred. I was simply asking for a more reliable/less biased source with better details (thanks to subedo for actually presenting something properly referenced)
Perhaps if you read a little more closely:
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
But, there-in sits my point. I couldn't find your story anywhere covered in acceptable detail and by more credible sources. I suspect you couldn't either, since you would otherwise have used a source other than a conspiracy-theory site.
The fact that your conspiracy-theory site doesn't offer all the details and that neither of us could find a more credible source, suggests to me that there isn't much to this story.
I think, if you read the above post, it should be obvious that I'm not questioning the legitimacy of the story, but rather the perspective of the reporter and the quality of the report submitted by abe.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Originally Posted by abe
There's little doubt the event occurred. Just like I remember a report only carried by bloggers where Cindy Sheehan had said some REALLY crazy things at a rally in San Francisco.
You guys balked at the credibility of the report, saying that unless it was reported by a CREDIBLE news source that you couldn't believe it had happened at all.
I think it's important that we keep in mind the old philosophy question...
If a tree falls in the woods does it make any sound if there is no one around to hear it?
Or, in this case, does an event not exist unless covered by CREDIBLE news sources?
Do they cover 100% of every news event that happens around the world? No.
Do they publish or broadcast 100% of everything they cover? No.
Is the media subject to censorship due to various reasons? Yes.
If you invented the airplane and there were no CREDIBLE news reporters there would that mean you hadn't invented ANYTHING?
In the case of Sheehan, the doubters had to concede she had said the things that were alleged by the bloggers when an audio or video tape of the event surfaced.
During the 2004 campaign or thereafter I recall seeing no shortage of sites covering these arrests. They seem to be harder to come by now.
Someone more cynical than I might conclude that a conspiracy exists or an effort was made to erase these citations from the record.
Could the people who were involved in a shady land deal where almost all the others were imprisoned but they; could the people who made the death of Vince Foster synonymous with high stakes secret political misdeeds; could the people responsible for selling/giving missile technology to China and allowing N. Korea to become a nuclear power and standing by as international terrorism grew bolder with their attacks, could those folks, the same ones who HAD THE HECKLERS ARRESTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, could they apply pressure to remove information that might be harmful to an upcoming Presidential run?
You tell me.
Just remember these points the next time a "leftist" uses Wikipedia or a blog to back up their arguments ...
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
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Ah I get it Wisk. You are splitting hairs. You know it's true, but you are splitting hairs because it doesn't help your argument any.
Just move on.
This straw-man silliness has gotten old.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Originally Posted by Kevin
Ah I get it Wisk. You are splitting hairs. You know it's true, but you are splitting hairs because it doesn't help your argument any.
Just move on.
This straw-man silliness has gotten old.
Have I made any arguments here? No. That's just more projection on your part. The only straw-man here is you trying to say I'm making one.
I'm simply asking for clarity.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Have I made any arguments here? No. That's just more projection on your part. The only straw-man here is you trying to say I'm making one.
I'm simply asking for clarity.
Come on! Someone's being disengenuous, here!
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America should know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of this country. http://tinyurl.com/4vucu5
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Baninated
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In yer threads
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Originally Posted by abe
Come on! Someone's being disengenuous, here!
Yeah and is going to wear his tires out. They were meant to only go forward!
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Always within bluetooth range
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Hard to believe this thread has degenerated to what it has. Even if the Mendoza story is true (which it may well be), it is basically a speck on the butt of the assumption of power that the Bush admin has taken. Look at the powers that the Bush admin along with Gonzales, has either asserted it has (without Congressional consent) or just flat out started doing without telling anyone and then had to be "caught" before they fessed up that they were even doing it.
Read the article. The counter accusation against Gore (by association with being part of the Clinton administration) made by Abe is not germane to to the issues raised at all.
Basically, the article reads: "Bush has grossly overstepped the bounds of presidential authority in numerous areas" and proceeds to list example after example. The "rebuttal" given is that Gore was part of an admin that had someone arrested once and held for 12 hrs ... something that is, for better or worse, NOT illegal and does NOT expand or overstep the powers of the presidency in any way.
Please be explicit with what you think the importance of the Mendoza arrest is in light of the accusations made by Gore in his speech.
It shows that Gore has overstepped the bounds of presidential authoity ? No. It doesnt.
It shows that Gore carried out an illegal arrest. No. That's not the case either.
It shows that Gore ____________________ (fill in the blank).
Do you guys have any reading comprehension skills at all ? Or is the fact that the word "arrest" appears somewhere in both stories that makes them "the same" ?
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Last edited by Krusty; Apr 30, 2006 at 11:37 PM.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Originally Posted by abe
Come on! Someone's being disengenuous, here!
Please point out any arguments or claims I have made in this thread about the legitimacy of the Mendoza story. My only posts here have been to question the credibility of Abe's referenced reports of that story. Certainly you'd agree that a liberal reporter might have reported this story differently, and a neutral reporter might have reported it yet another way (hopefully with less bias than the other two).
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Last edited by Wiskedjak; Apr 30, 2006 at 12:25 PM.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Your lack of response is not surprising ...
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
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Abe, is it safe to say through your silence here that you cannot find anything in my posts where I argue against the legitimacy of the Mendoza story?
I'll once again make it easy for you and take your continued silence as both affirmation of that as well as apology for your false accusation of me being disingenuous.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Abe, is it safe to say through your silence here that you cannot find anything in my posts where I argue against the legitimacy of the Mendoza story?
I'll once again make it easy for you and take your continued silence as both affirmation of that as well as apology for your false accusation of me being disingenuous.
As long as we're all clear that you recognize the fact that Bill Clinton had people who heckled him arrested, then I'm satisfied.
I don't feel I've done anything that should require my apologising. And I didn't falsely accuse you of being disingenuous since you were fighting my attribution of the story source and didn't specify whether that skepticism was due to the existence of the event or what?
But, since you are the (falsely? ) aggrieved party here, sure, I'll apologize. Sorry, Wiskedjak for doubting your ingenuity.
Now, I hope we can put this unpleasantness behind us and explore new vistas in the spirit of Kumbayaa brotherhood.
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America should know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of this country. http://tinyurl.com/4vucu5
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Originally Posted by abe
And with Subego's fine post, what say you NOW, oh skilled carpenter with the bitchin truck? (I hope you have a bed liner in the back and I think spray on is probably the best, everything considered. Right?)
Yes, that's the highest test there is.
I'm not sure if you're attacking my intelligence here, I was just pointing out that fact that if anyone on the "left" used such biased sources you would burn them at the stake.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by sek929
I'm not sure if you're attacking my intelligence here, I was just pointing out that fact that if anyone on the "left" used such biased sources you would burn them at the stake.
Ah! Well, I was hoping a clarification would yield such an explanation.
I wasn't attacking you or your intelligence at all but I wanted to see what you were really thinkin. And I really do like your truck and I really do believe a spray on liner is better because it doesn't trap moisture in the bed which, along with grit that invariably gets between the bed and a drop-in liner, can cause extensive rusting.
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America should know the political orientation of government officials who might be in a position to adversely influence the future of this country. http://tinyurl.com/4vucu5
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