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danengel · Aug 7, 2003, 10:23 AM

Hi,

I just wonder if anybody tried the 900 MHz iBook with only 128 MB RAM. My girlfriend wants to buy one but doesn't want to spend the money on another few MBs. I can't convince her to go for 640 MB, which is what I would do, so before she throws the iBook out of the window after buying it: Is it usable?

Daniel

The Placid Casual · Aug 7, 2003, 10:39 AM

It will be 'usable'. If it wasn't, Apple wouldn't sell it that way... but there really are degrees of usability...

If she won't go for 640, why not an extra 256 or even 128? Heck they are probably even giving the 128 Modules away with breakfast cereal these days!

From experience, I really think that 256MB total is the minimum you need for running OS X to any great extent...

For example, I'm on an 867 Powerbook at the moment with 'only' 256MB as I'm waiting for a new RAM module to turn up... On the whole it runs great, but when I try to do more than a few things at once, it does get bogged down pretty easily...

You could always do the 'good boyfriend' routine and buy the extra RAM as a present... brownie points all round...

Peace,

TPC

Steve Bosell · Aug 7, 2003, 11:59 AM

spend 33$ and get an extra 256 on pricewatch

darcybaston · 10:47 AM

I was at the Walden Galleria Apple store in Buffalo (not Boston heh, oops) this past weekend (7 hour road trip from Sudbury ON Canada hehe) and had a chance to do my first "hands-on" purchase research on iBooks.

They had a 12" with 384 MB ram and a 14" with 128 MB (both at 900mhz).

I can tell you that the 12" at 384 was MUCH quicker then the 14" at 128. It was loading apps and doing Photoshop Elements template effects like crazy while the 14" crawled along.

They were both faster then my (what I'm seeking to replace) 400 MHZ iMac DV SE, but the 384 RAM 12" iBook was really smoking.

Screen size debate: 12" is beautifully crisp, and 14" a little less but not overly so. I found the 12" to be almost uncomfortably small compared to my iMac experience, but then again I was standing over it, farther then where my face will be while using it.

Handling: That 12" is fun to tumble around in your hands. It's incredible how light and playful it is. The 14" is much bulkier and you wouldn't want to one-hand it as much.

Keyboards: I wrote some sentences on either iBooks and on the 12" Powerbook. The PB one "feels" better (especially when reaching around blindly for hotkey combos like CMD-Q), but my accuracy sucked on it. Made lts of mastlkes. On the iBook, I typed as fast as I could and didn't miss a letter.

Heat: iBooks, warmer then the table they were on, but not hot at all. PB, hey...this isn't too comfortable.

Lid closing experience : I finally understand what people mean when they say the iBook feels more solid. It could be the thickness of the screen part that is just easier to palm, but the iBook closes confidently while PB just kinda clicks without much physical feedback (like a light car door compared to a heavy car door y'know?). I hope I'm making sense.

Trackpad: Do these things have tap-clicking? I couldn't get them to do it. A setting turned off or non-existant feature? Anyway, I was more successful with the iBook trackpad. The PB trackpad is nice, and I'd say it's more accurate from a dpi point of view, but maybe it was just speed/accel settings. However, the iBooks responded to my movements better. Can't describe it, but it's like the iBook is more forgiving to fumbling where as the PB catches you every time.

Quicktime performance: Either iBook screamed with QT movies compared to my current iMac, and the PB was really remarkable. I did the full screen Nemo trailer on all 3, and of course the PB did the best job during window resizing or whatever. The 12" fared better then the 14" because of ram I'm guessing, but the difference was less noticeable compared to the PB.

I know I'm going for the 12" iBook and will max its RAM. It just felt right. The heat from the PB is too inconvenient although it's performance is great. The keyboard and trackpads from the iBooks also caught my fancy above the PB. And yeah, the surface on the edges of the 14" keyboard does look funny and out of place. Like a keyboard coaster on a table hehe.

regards,
Darcy

tisoncam · Aug 7, 2003, 01:22 PM

Get more RAM. . .I have a 12" PB and I used it for a couple months with the stock 256MB and it was useable but did get "stuck" when running multiple applications. I have since added an additional 512 MB and I am currenlty running iChat, Mail, iTunes, and X11(connected to a remote RH server running Cernlib apps). The additional RAM makes a huge difference--get as much as you can, at least an additional 128.

arnette · Aug 7, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by darcybaston:
I was at the Walden Galleria Apple store.....
regards,
Darcy

That was a pretty good accessment of my same opinions on the differences between the ibooks and 12" PB. The only 2 noticable differences I saw in my ibook when I upped the RAM to 640MB was a quicker launch to just about every app and the fancier things like the Genie effect with a running Quicktime clip were much smoother.

But I didn't wait long to upgrade. I think I spent a day with my ibook at 128MB before the extra stick of RAM arrived in the mail. WELL worth it. I can't remember the brand I have but it was around $70, not the insane $120 or whatever it is the Crucial is scalping with right now.

Good luck and best wishes!

NYK Ace · Aug 7, 2003, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by darcybaston:
I was at the Walden Galleria Apple store in Boston

regards,
Darcy

dont you mean walden gallera apple store in buffalo?

sorry to be nit picky but im from buffalo

AssassyN · Aug 7, 2003, 10:49 PM

I'd say she'll be crazy dissapointed w/ only 128MB of RAM. If possible, be a good b/f and hook her up w/ an extra 512MB from www.coastmemory.com. She'll love ya for it

gator · Aug 7, 2003, 11:37 PM

With 128MB memory... it'll be usable for about 15 min. Once you start launching a couple apps, it doesn't take long for it to start paging stuff off to the HD, and things will get slower, especially when switching programs. Going to 384MB will make a big difference in smoothness.

danengel · Aug 8, 2003, 04:55 AM

Heck they are probably even giving the 128 Modules away with breakfast cereal these days!

LOL!

Why doesn't Apple include 256 MB? I mean, everybody is buying additional RAM, so why not put it in anyway?

AssassyN · Aug 8, 2003, 10:18 AM

Cause they'd rather sell it to you

rytc · Aug 8, 2003, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by darcybaston:

Trackpad: Do these things have tap-clicking? I couldn't get them to do it. A setting turned off or non-existant feature?

You can turn on tap-clicking etc in the mouse control panel in the System Prefs. By default it's turned off it seems.

Cheers Ry

rytc · Aug 8, 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by darcybaston:

Lid closing experience : I finally understand what people mean when they say the iBook feels more solid. It could be the thickness of the screen part that is just easier to palm, but the iBook closes confidently while PB just kinda clicks without much physical feedback (like a light car door compared to a heavy car door y'know?). I hope I'm making sense.

I think the lid on the clamshells is the nicest 'lid-closing experience' of the iBooks. Feels so much more solid and has a reassuring thunk noise, plus it's latchless.

Lateralus · Aug 8, 2003, 11:09 PM

128MBs of RAM? Hahahaha!
In OS X? Hahahahahahaha!

Ha.

Cipher13 · Aug 9, 2003, 03:55 AM

I'm ordering my 900 with 128 RAM, but I'm gonna install another 512 myself as soon as is humanly possible.

ambush · Aug 9, 2003, 05:23 AM

It's just gonna be a dog with 128.

sniffer · Aug 9, 2003, 12:24 PM

I have 384 which works just fine for basic needs, but working on major apps like DW and PS at the same time really starts my ibook to struggle.

Push a 256 module on here and you'll hear no complains unless she does major tasks.

iamnid · Aug 9, 2003, 01:46 PM

Yeah, chances are your girlfriend will be just as fine with 384MB as 640MB... and 256MB modules are super cheap right now.

BenRoethig · Aug 13, 2003, 06:30 PM

I bought the 900mhz 12" model at Best Buy on monday. With only 128mb of RAM, its very usable. It's even able to play some newer games. That being said, with RAM being as cheap as it is, anyone would be a fool not to buy more. I ordered a 512mb DIMM as soon as I got home.

darcybaston · Aug 14, 2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by NYK Ace:
dont you mean walden gallera apple store in buffalo?

sorry to be nit picky but im from buffalo

Hehe, yup! Thanks! I'll edit my post.

darcybaston · Aug 14, 2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by rytc:
You can turn on tap-clicking etc in the mouse control panel in the System Prefs. By default it's turned off it seems.

Thanks Ry! Good to know.

joeytomatoes · Sep 2, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by NYK Ace:
dont you mean walden gallera apple store in buffalo?

sorry to be nit picky but im from buffalo

Hey,thats were I bought mine.What a small world.Finally made a local connection.

jt

darcybaston · Sep 2, 2003, 09:12 PM

Very cool JT.

I just happen to add that store as a 'rest stop' during a trip to New Jersey from Sudbury ON Canada. (look it up on maps.yahoo.ca)

12 hour drives NEED an Apple store to relax in hehe.

NYK Ace · Sep 2, 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by joeytomatoes:
Hey,thats were I bought mine.What a small world.Finally made a local connection.

jt

i know what you mean man. i thought mac users were a dime a dozen in this town but with a couple trips to the apple store and going to college for a year you find there's more then you would of even thought. at the last Jobs keynote the store was PACKED!

nice to see someone from around the area on macnn

suprz · Sep 3, 2003, 06:58 AM

as a former icebook owner (700mhz with only 128mb of ram, OSX 10.2) do your girlfriend a HUGE favor and max out the ram! i had a B&W G3 with 256mb of ram running osx and it would run circles around the ibook while doing the same apps. It got to the point where i didnt even want to use the ibook, because it was so much slower than the B&W. Apple is being STUPID letting computers go out the door knowing that they will be dogs with only 128mb of ram. If i wasnt educated on how much better OSX runs with more ram, i would have just blamed the computer and been extremely disappointed! It's like buying a ferrari with a 4 cylinder engine, it'll run, but not really well.....and you will be disappointed

radarbob · Sep 3, 2003, 08:54 AM

Don't upgrade your memory twice - which I guarantee you will do during the life of your iBook if you get less than 512MB. Trust us, you do want to max out the memory w/ a 512MB module. Don't get a lesser capacity, hold off till you can afford a 512MB module. You'll be glad you did.

Getting the longest useful life out of your computer means getting the most & largest; as in hard drive, memory, etc. In the long run you will save money by first buying the computer w/ as much as possible, and alternatively when upgrading, geting "the most." The cost of hard drives and memory has gone down so much it doesn't make sense to get anything less.

The memory demands skyrocket over time. In 1994 the Macintosh PowerPCs came w/ 8MB on-board memory - twice that of any new computer at the time. In 1999 my Precious (bb 300mz) came with 4x that with a whopping 32MB on-board memory. Now the *minimum* recommended by Apple is 4x that. And anyone who has used OS X w/ differing amounts of memory knows that 128MB is not enough for practical purposes. The long term trend in memory demands has been clear and unwavering, so max it out. period.

I got my memory at 4allmemory.com for about $99 several months ago.

Cipher13 · Sep 3, 2003, 09:08 AM

I'm using my iBook with 128 now (iBook 900) - it's tolerable, but I need that extra 512.

Definately get it.

pat++ · Sep 3, 2003, 04:59 PM

There is ABSOLUTELY no need to buy a 512Mb chip. Just go for a 256Mb stick, it's enough for most people. I'm using iBook 500 with 384Mb, and it really does not swap that much during normal use (web, mail, itunes...). Unless she really plans to do some heavy stuff like PS, just get a 256Mb stick. It's really cheap and will make a huge difference.

Cipher13 · Sep 3, 2003, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by pat++:
There is ABSOLUTELY no need to buy a 512Mb chip. Just go for a 256Mb stick, it's enough for most people. I'm using iBook 500 with 384Mb, and it really does not swap that much during normal use (web, mail, itunes...). Unless she really plans to do some heavy stuff like PS, just get a 256Mb stick. It's really cheap and will make a huge difference.

Heh. There is a significant difference between 384 and 640. It is DEFINATELY worth paying a few extra dollars for the 512 stick.

Agent69 · Sep 4, 2003, 09:46 AM

Cipher13's right. Unless you simply can't afford it, the 512MB stick is the way to go. The hard drive of the iBook is slower than a desktop machine and with more RAM swapping will effect you less.

radarbob · Sep 5, 2003, 10:02 AM

Don't misunderstand my previous post. I'm not saying a 256MB module isn't enough. It is - for now. But what about 1, 2, 3 years from now?

More memory now makes a difference, now. Posts I've read here and elsewhere from folks who've used 256(+on-board memory of course) then upgraded to 512MB - including me - all report that performance improvement is seen when multiple apps are open.

I believe the performace is inhanced because w/ more memory the computer does not rely as much on virtual memory - that is, using the hard drive as "pretend memory." Pieces of programs get swapped in and out of the hard drive to memory when the computer needs the room for something. That's what virtual memory is. W/ more real memory, there is less swapping. Accessing a hard drive is about 1,000 times slower (yes, one thousand times) than accessing main memory.

I keep email, palm desktop, safari, clock, launchbar all running all the time so I've seen a dramatic difference in my revA iBook. And I'm sure the OS memory demands for itself are great. FWIW, I've seen OS 8 - 9 vaccum up as much as 96MB when virtual memory was turned off (can't turn off VM in OS X). I can't imagine what OS X wants.

More VM history. When virutal memory first came out (in OS 7) *everyone* said the first thing you should do is turn it off. The good thing about VM was that total real memory demands were lower - because it utilized the hard drive; thus you could launch more apps or handle "larger" apps w/ available memory. But computer performance such as it was back then took a gigasmic hit when VM was turned on. Third party software came out enhancing performance. Apple tweaked the software over time. Of course things also improved over time w/ faster CPUs, hard drives, buss speed, larger memory capacities, etc.

Luca Rescigno · Sep 7, 2003, 01:56 AM

If someone tells you that it's usable with just 128 MB, they are lying. They are. They just are, trust me.

When I bought my iBook (800 MHz/Combo) it came with just 128 MB of RAM, and I then realized why Apple puts OS 9 on machines that ship with 128 MB. OS X literally took minutes to do ANYTHING outside of using one application at a time. What if I want to chat and surf the internet at the same time? Nope, it would constantly page to the disk, slowing EVERYTHING to a crawl. What if I want to listen to music? It actually got choppy and skipped, and this was with no other applications running! It was behaving only slightly better than my 233 MHz Wallstreet did, and this machine had more than 3x the processor speed. When I booted into OS 9, it was workable if not stellar.

You could just mail order it from MacWhorehouse or something, they probably have some sort of free RAM deal. Yeah, by all rights you should just get a 512 MB module, but you can get by with a "free" 128 MB or 256 MB extra until you convince your girlfriend that she needs extra. I'm sure if she actually uses the machine with just 128 MB she'll realize that she needs more RAM (although I know some people who would refuse to buy RAM and then complain that it's the computer's fault that they have to wait 30 seconds whenever they want to open another application).

What I don't fully understand is why someone would be willing to spend $1300 on a new computer but won't spend $100 or even $50 extra to make it usably fast. It's kind of like buying a portable CD player that's provided with cheap non-alkaline batteries and then refusing to buy replacement batteries, instead insisting that you save money by stretching the life out of the provided batteries as long as possible. It just doesn't make sense.

Tell her if she wants to save money she can buy a refurb 800 MHz Combo iBook and then use the money she saves to buy extra RAM. Believe me, an 800 MHz iBook with 640 MB will be much, MUCH faster than a 900 MHz iBook with 128 MB. In fact I bet a 600 MHz iBook with 640 MB of RAM would beat a 900 MHz with 128 MB.

scottiB · Sep 7, 2003, 10:18 AM

You have only one slot; max it now, then forget about it.

polendo · Sep 10, 2003, 11:50 PM

The Ibook without the extra ram wouldn't be stretching its legs long enough. I bought mine and installed the same day 256 MB, totalling 384 MB. For office applications, like the one I use, is more than enough.

It's really a no brainer, nevertheless if your gf can't comprehend it, just buy it yourself.. she will notice.

Skypat · Sep 11, 2003, 03:34 PM

What if I chose to buy an iBook with a 60GB HD instead of a 40 GBHD ? Does it hurt the battery life ? Does it consume more power ? Is it louder than a 40 GB ? Thanks

chabig · Sep 16, 2003, 12:23 AM

What if I chose to buy an iBook with a 60GB HD instead of a 40 GBHD ? Does it hurt the battery life ? Does it consume more power ? Is it louder than a 40 GB ?

No, no, and no. Go for it!

Chris

historylme · Sep 16, 2003, 01:37 AM

I have 384 on mine, but I would love to see how it would run on 600 + .

In short, buy as much memory as she can afford... it will make the computer purr.

I so dig this... mac adics like me discussing what I read about every day....
I'm debating staying up late to see the Key note speech.... dam.

El Mago · Sep 16, 2003, 12:01 PM

spend the $$$, get the extra RAM. You won't be sorry.

yg17 · Sep 17, 2003, 11:39 PM

When I first bought my iBook 900, I only had 128 megs of RAM while waiting for it to be delivered. While tolerable, it was still slow and the extra 512 makes a huge difference

OldManMac · Sep 18, 2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by darcybaston:
I was at the Walden Galleria Apple store in Buffalo (not Boston heh, oops) this past weekend (7 hour road trip from Sudbury ON Canada hehe) and had a chance to do my first "hands-on" purchase research on iBooks.

They had a 12" with 384 MB ram and a 14" with 128 MB (both at 900mhz).

I can tell you that the 12" at 384 was MUCH quicker then the 14" at 128. It was loading apps and doing Photoshop Elements template effects like crazy while the 14" crawled along.

They were both faster then my (what I'm seeking to replace) 400 MHZ iMac DV SE, but the 384 RAM 12" iBook was really smoking. >>snip<<

regards,
Darcy

Very interesting thread. Every 14" iBook I've ever sold comes standard with 256Mb RAM. Apple is taking RAM out of the models in the store? http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html

Did they have the 12" unit labeled as having extra RAM?