[♥]

Being a Republican, if I HAD to vote for a Democrat, I'd probably vote for Obama. I think the guy is sharp as a tack and a little more conservative than other liberals might be.

Wouldn't vote for Hillary and wouldn't vote for Edwards.

What about y'all?

P.S., Please move the thread to Political Lounge? Thanks. (My bad.)

[roller]

If I had to vote for a Republican... ugh... I'd have to find out who was running...

[♥]

[Big Mac]

Edwards, because despite his sleaziness he seems to be less ideologically left-wing than Hill-dog and Obama.

[Atomic Rooster]

The "Mother of all Orgies Party"

[shinji]

Ron Paul...though I may end up voting Republican in 2008 anyway since I won't vote for Obama, Hillary, or Edwards.

[Buckaroo]

Ralph Nader?

[Buckaroo]

Heck, I don't know. I've only voted for one Democrat my whole life. He was the worst President EVER. It was for Carter (against Ford).

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Heck, I don't know. I've only voted for one Democrat my whole life. He was the worst President EVER. It was for Carter (against Ford).

You mean, the worst ever...until now, right?

And really, why is everyone so down on Carter? I think he's getting a bum-rap from history. He didn't do anything particularly wrong. Hell, if his energy policies had been left in place by the Reagan administration then we wouldn't be in this mess in Iraq right now. And how did those hostages get released exactly? I mean, it wasn't just a welcome-to-the-Oval-Office gift for Reagan, now was it?

[Helmling]

Neither party is my party, so I'll pick voting for Obama.

Which isn't entirely outside the range of possibilities, which I can't say for McCain, whose lost the respect I previously had for him alone among the Republicans.

[ebuddy]

Doing anything the opposite of what I've been doing (since I've voted both ways politically) would be to not vote at all. Which I'm seriously considering.

[♥]

I hear you, ebuddy. Fred Thompson ain't my cup of tea either - from my own party. Neither is Giuliani or Romney or McCain.

The field is weak.

[Dakarʒ]

McCain before he decided to pretend to be more conservative than he is (and get style points for suddenly becoming an ultra-supporter of the war), so now I choose Guliani.*

*I'm not registered to any party, but for the sake of the thread, I assume you mean the party that doesn't usually fit my ideologies.

[tie]

I'd vote for Bloomberg.

(I'd also studiously avoid reading the news to find out that he wasn't a Republican.)

A few years ago I might have said McCain, but his totally spineless position on Iraq, which is getting Americans killed for his political positioning, has changed that.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

You mean, the worst ever...until now, right?

And really, why is everyone so down on Carter? I think he's getting a bum-rap from history. He didn't do anything particularly wrong.

No, Carter was the worst President ever, period. And if you don't think he did "anything particularly wrong" you're completely clueless. He completely mismanaged the economy, permanently ruined the value of our dollar, made the country look like a push over and a joke internationally (and particularly in the Middle East), gave us the infamous gas lines and the worst stagflation ever seen, withdrew support for the Shah, thus allowing the maniacs to take over Iran, had a homosexual liaison with Brezhnev and made Americans feel like their country stunk.

Afterward, despite some notable success outside of politics building houses for the poor as an ex-President, Carter helped the North Koreans fool America, contravened the policies of a sitting President, vilified and defamed our only true ally in the Middle East, insulted a sitting President and, most recently, openly declared his support for an internationally condemned terrorist group and his opposition to the President and foreign policy of the United States and its allies. Carter is therefore guilty of treason.

Anyone who thinks Carter was better than Bush needs a brain transplant. In fact, Carter makes Bush look like Lincoln.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Carter [...] insulted a sitting President [...] Carter is therefore guilty of treason.

I assume there's a separate law for ex-presidents that would condemn them of treason for insulting a sitting president. In other words, If I insult a sitting president I assume I don't have to worry about stormtroopers showing up at my door, right?

contravened the policies of a sitting President,

I'd also remind you that we live in a nation of law, not of the "policies of the president". George would completely agree with you, I'm sure, but it doesn't work that way yet.

[olePigeon]

If I had to choose a Republican, I'd vote for Giuliani because of his pro-choice stance.

Actually, if naturalized citizens could run, I'd probably vote for Schwarzenegger

[Ron Goodman]

McCain before he became a doormat for Shrub, Ron Paul now. And yes, I think Carter screwed things up a lot less than Bush has.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

He completely mismanaged the economy, permanently ruined the value of our dollar, made the country look like a push over and a joke internationally (and particularly in the Middle East), gave us the infamous gas lines and the worst stagflation ever seen...

Wait.... you're talking about Carter, right?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

... a joke internationally (and particularly in the Middle East) …

Carter is one of the most respected US Presidents in Europe.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

McCain before he decided to pretend to be more conservative than he is

Eh, unless my memory's failing me, McCain has always been conservative. His voting record is amazingly conservative. He just used to offer better lip-service for swing voters.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Wait.... you're talking about Carter, right?

Uh, yeah, that description is very specific and could only apply to Carter.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Carter is one of the most respected US Presidents in Europe.

And yet he was the worst president for the reasons I stated and others. Tells you something, doesn't it? Also, when I stated he made us look like a joke internationally, I was referring to how he degraded our standing internationally by making us look weak. Look at how he bungled the Iranian hostage crisis (forgot to add that one to my first post).

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

I assume there's a separate law for ex-presidents that would condemn them of treason for insulting a sitting president. In other words, If I insult a sitting president I assume I don't have to worry about stormtroopers showing up at my door, right?

No, it just shows that he lacks the class of nearly every other ex-President in Presidential history. I didn't say that was the treasonous act. The treasonous act was in coming out in favor of an internationally condemned terrorist organization and in opposition to the policy of the United States and our allies, including Old Europe which also shuns Hamas, and in calling the President a criminal for not supporting said terrorist organization. If anything qualifies as Treason, that's it.

(I apologize for the off-topic posts in a row - I should have used multi-quote instead.)

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Carter is one of the most respected US Presidents in Europe.

That has to be the most damning thing anyone's said about him yet.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

And yet he was the worst president for the reasons I stated and others. Tells you something, doesn't it? Also, when I stated he made us look like a joke internationally, I was referring to how he degraded our standing internationally by making us look weak. Look at how he bungled the Iranian hostage crisis (forgot to add that one to my first post).

You claimed that he diminished the reputation of the US internationally. While for some regions this may or may not be true, in the case of Europe, it's definitely false. If you don't like him, sure, fine, no problem, I'm not contesting your opinion on him, just that his `bad reputation abroad diminished the US' reputation'. But that doesn't concern his reputation abroad. I'm also not arguing that a good/bad international reputation makes/breaks a good president. If that were your main measure, I think Bush Jr. would beat Carter by a mile.

I think a full-fledged discussion on his actions and whether his reputation is justified or not would steer this discussion off-track.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That has to be the most damning thing anyone's said about him yet.

Reminds me of:
Eric Cartman: »Are you French, Clyde?«

[Sherman Homan]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Carter is one of the most respected US Presidents in Europe.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That has to be the most damning thing anyone's said about him yet.

Nominated: Quote of The Day!

[macintologist]

Ron Paul

[Dakarʒ]

Am I the only one who constantly thinks of Ron Jeremy when I read Ron Paul? Must be the having a first name for a last name thing.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Uh, yeah, that description is very specific and could only apply to Carter.

Ruined the economy.
Lowered the value of the dollar.
International community has low respect for U.S.
Inflated gas prices.

Carter isn't the only one who meets those requirements.

[tie]

Bush hasn't ruined the economy. He may not have done it any good, and there are huge problems he has created, but he certainly hasn't ruined it.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by tie 

Bush hasn't ruined the economy. He may not have done it any good, and there are huge problems he has created, but he certainly hasn't ruined it.

Like trying to blame Carter for an economic trend already a decade in the making.

[Kerrigan]

Rod Majors

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Ruined the economy.

How? We came out of the shortly lived Clinton recession thanks to the Bush tax cuts, and we've been growing, albeit slowly, ever since. Inflation has been low throughout his stay in office, and we've had nearly full employment as well. Care to explain your silly claim? (I realize you lack knowledge of basic economic theory, but nonetheless if you don't know what you're talking about in a given subject why stick your foot in your mouth?)

Lowered the value of the dollar.

We've had a relatively strong dollar both of his terms, to such an extent that he had to reject calls to artificially weaken it in order to help exports.

International community has low respect for U.S.

I won't argue that point as far as Old Europe is concerned. I will, however, tell you that Bush has made the tough choices that show we're not a push over internationally. We took out a maniacal regime in Afghanistan, took out a tyrant in Iraq who aided terrorism and continually violated the terms of the 1991 cease fire, started dealing tougher with North Korea and even got Libya to disclose its illegal weapons programs as a bonus. That's a strong foreign policy record by any measurement.

Inflated gas prices.

There are too few refineries because of environmental regulations and NIMBY, and there's a terror premium on the price of oil. None of that is Bush's fault. And relatively high gas prices are still better than gas lines.

Carter isn't the only one who meets those requirements.

You may want to rethink that statement because it's just plain wrong. You can be unfair to Bush, but you cannot twist the facts. Despite the worst attack in United States history, Bush has done remarkably well in many respects. If only he were a better communicator and didn't get the military mired in nation building in Iraq, most people would recognize that fact.

[TheWOAT]

Edwards since IMO he impressed the most in the debates a few weeks ago. Hillary has yet to show me any glimpse of who the hell she is. Obama... same as Hillary.

[placebo1969]

For President, I guess I would write in Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller.

[♥]

About Carter, didn't he recently lob the first shot when he made a comment about Bush to begin with?

He kind of started it in my mind, anyway.

[Powerbook]

The question alone shows the typical flaws of a de-facto two party system. If I don't want to vote for one party in Germany, I have at least three-four democratic, viable and capable alternatives.

PB.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

How? We came out of the shortly lived Clinton recession thanks to the Bush tax cuts and we've been growing, albeit slowly, ever since. Inflation has been low throughout his stay in office, and we've had nearly full employment as well. Care to explain your silly claim?

Foot firmly in mouth, copy/pasted and ruined a joke.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

We've had a relatively strong dollar both of his terms, to such an extent that he had to reject calls to artificially weaken it in order to help exports.

This, I have to disagree with. The value of the dollar has pretty much only gone down during his term.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

We took out a maniacal regime in Afghanistan

... and well on our way of putting another one in.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

took out a tyrant in Iraq who aided terrorism and continually violated the terms of the 1991 cease fire

... because it was convenient for U.S. economic interests. Oh, and that he used 9/11 to do it was/is unacceptable.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

started dealing tougher with North Korea

Or rather, just about the same as Clinton.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There are too few refineries because of environmental regulations and NIMBY, and there's a terror premium on the price of oil. None of that is Bush's fault. And relatively high gas prices are still better than gas lines.

This is the biggest bullsh*t in the world. You don't make quadruple profits because you have a shortage. There may be some legitimate factors in there, but I don't buy it for one second.

[Buckaroo]

Carter is the one that created this Middle East mess more than anyone else. He pressured the Shaw of Iran to release the militants from Iran prisons. We are now living with the blunders of Carter.

The second worst president is Clinton. I'm no fan of Bush, but he doesn't even rate in the top 20.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

You mean, the worst ever...until now, right?

And really, why is everyone so down on Carter? I think he's getting a bum-rap from history. He didn't do anything particularly wrong. Hell, if his energy policies had been left in place by the Reagan administration then we wouldn't be in this mess in Iraq right now. And how did those hostages get released exactly? I mean, it wasn't just a welcome-to-the-Oval-Office gift for Reagan, now was it?

[andi*pandi]

I would have said mcCain, but he's seemed wishy washy in the past few months.

Guiliani is pro-choice and more moderate, and that's a way I'd lean... except I hate how his whole campaign is I WAS THERE ON 9/!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Perhaps Ron Paul.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Carter is the one that created this Middle East mess more than anyone else. He pressured the Shaw of Iran to release the militants from Iran prisons. We are now living with the blunders of Carter.

The second worst president is Clinton. I'm no fan of Bush, but he doesn't even rate in the top 20.

You truly live in bizarro world. We are now living with the blunders of Bush and of fools like you who blindly supported him. Only you would blame Carter for the current situation in Iraq. I'm surprised you aren't blaming Gore.

Originally Posted by Big Mac

You may want to rethink that statement because it's just plain wrong. You can be unfair to Bush, but you cannot twist the facts. Despite the worst attack in United States history, Bush has done remarkably well in many respects. If only he were a better communicator and didn't get the military mired in nation building in Iraq, most people would recognize that fact.

Bush presided over the worst attack in US history. He let Bin Laden get away. He sat by after Katrina. He got the nation mired in nation-building in Iraq, if you can even call it nation building. (It's a civil war.) He's an awful communicator -- he's a deliberate liar -- and has been disastrous for US standing abroad.

If it weren't for these tiny things, most people would recognize that he's done remarkably well in many respects, none of which I can think of at the moment (and it seems you can't either), probably because these are the biggest issues facing our country and Bush has failed utterly on every one of them.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

made the country look like a push over and a joke internationally.

Trust me on this one. If any president ever made the US a joke internationally, look no further than to your sitting one.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I would have said mcCain, but he's seemed wishy washy in the past few months.

"wishy washy"? The guy is done for... he probably already knows so.



PB.