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Help with a debate on OS X's intel history
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itistoday
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Jul 9, 2007, 07:53 PM
 
My roommate asserts that he remembers Apple suing a company for selling or trying to sell computers that dual booted windows and OS X (and ran both natively) before Apple announced their intent to switch to intel processors.

I do not remember any such occurrence happening and I do not even see how this would be possible unless an Apple employee secretly leaked a copy of OS X's source code (intel version) before then.

So how 'bout it? Does anyone remember anything like this happening and if so could you provide evidence? Please be sure of your response.
     
goMac
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Jul 9, 2007, 08:09 PM
 
Nope. I don't remember anything like that.
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TETENAL
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Jul 9, 2007, 09:56 PM
 
No, that didn't happen of course. Before Apple switched to Intel no Intel-version of OS X was publicly available..
     
itistoday  (op)
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:04 PM
 
Speak up people, if you haven't heard of this lunacy then stand up and be heard! I wish to EXORCISE MY ROOMMATE'S IGNORANCE with a wall of "No"s!!
     
besson3c
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:05 PM
 
There were Macs that dual booted Mac and Windows, but they were PPC Macs, not Intel ones.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
No, that didn't happen of course. Before Apple switched to Intel no Intel-version of OS X was publicly available..
Perhaps by dual booting he was talking about a PPC and Intel chip in the same computer.
     
Lateralus
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:16 PM
 
As far as I remember it, there was a company that had started selling BTO PCs that were loaded with Windows and versions of OS X from the OSx86 project. I also believe that the company marketed them as 'G6s'.
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itistoday  (op)
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
As far as I remember it, there was a company that had started selling BTO PCs that were loaded with Windows and versions of OS X from the OSx86 project. I also believe that the company marketed them as 'G6s'.
The OSx86 project was after Apple's announcement though, so it can't be anything involving that.
     
itistoday  (op)
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Perhaps by dual booting he was talking about a PPC and Intel chip in the same computer.
That would be interesting, but I've never heard of anything like that.
     
OldManMac
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Perhaps by dual booting he was talking about a PPC and Intel chip in the same computer.
Huh?
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Visnaut
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:30 PM
 
It didn't happen. Your friend is wrong. On several accounts:

Firstly, it might have happened after Apple announced their intent to ship Intel Macs, but never ever before, or else WWDC 2005 would not have been the shocker it was.

Secondly, I do not believe Apple actually ever got to the point of suing or bringing a lawsuit against anyone building dual-booting Intel boxes because anyone claiming to do so was either hawking vaporware or might have simply recieved a timely cease and desist letter that was enough to prevent the product from ever coming to market.

The burden of proof is on your friend. Get him to do his research and present some links and news articles to back his claim.
     
TETENAL
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by itistoday View Post
That would be interesting, but I've never heard of anything like that.
I had a PowerMac 6100 with a 486-card. It could run System 7 and Win 3.1 concurrently and natively.
     
TheoCryst
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:34 PM
 
Nope, someone on this board would definitely remember this if it had happened.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
besson3c
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I had a PowerMac 6100 with a 486-card. It could run System 7 and Win 3.1 concurrently and natively.
Yes, this was the Mac I was thinking of... I can't remember what Apple called it though.
     
Art Vandelay
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Jul 9, 2007, 10:45 PM
 
IIRC, it was the Power Mac 6100 DOS Compatible.

But I don't think you could dual boot it. I think Windows could only run along side Classic Mac OS.

Now that I think about it, Mac OS had to be running already. The Intel chip was on a NuBus card or whatever those old Macs had them. The Mac OS had to be loaded to be driving the rest of the hardware. My boss had one of those. You could use a keyboard shortcut to switch between Mac and Windows. Windows ran in full screen mode only. There may have been copy-paste support between the two OS but not much else.
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jul 10, 2007, 12:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I had a PowerMac 6100 with a 486-card. It could run System 7 and Win 3.1 concurrently and natively.
Ya that is the one i was thinking of also.

Actually I also remember a PowerPC version of WindowsNT.
     
Art Vandelay
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Jul 10, 2007, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Actually I also remember a PowerPC version of WindowsNT.
I think that only was able to run on CHRP-compliant systems or on IBM PowerPC systems such as an RS/6000. NT never ran on a Mac released by Apple AFAIK.
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OldManMac
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Jul 10, 2007, 12:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I had a PowerMac 6100 with a 486-card. It could run System 7 and Win 3.1 concurrently and natively.
Ok. I had forgotten about that machine.
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Lateralus
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Jul 10, 2007, 12:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
I think that only was able to run on CHRP-compliant systems or on IBM PowerPC systems such as an RS/6000. NT never ran on a Mac released by Apple AFAIK.
You are correct.
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itistoday  (op)
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Jul 10, 2007, 01:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I had a PowerMac 6100 with a 486-card. It could run System 7 and Win 3.1 concurrently and natively.
Ah, yes I actually had that same exact machine, it was the second Mac my family ever owned (after one of their ancient laptops, one of the ones that had a physical ball for a "trackpad"). It could definitely dual boot into Windows 3.1, but yeah, I meant to say that I had never heard of any third-party recently doing anything like that (in the time frame of the original question).
     
bstone
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Jul 10, 2007, 02:44 AM
 
I once owned a Performa 640CD DOS Compatible. I hit Apple-Return and the screen went over the Windows 3.11.
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CharlesS
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Jul 10, 2007, 02:51 AM
 
I think the Power Mac 4400 was able to do that too.

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Gamoe
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Jul 10, 2007, 03:58 AM
 
Well, Darwin was already running on Intel publicly before then, right? But though Darwin is the "core", it does not by itself Mac OS X make.
     
seanc
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Jul 10, 2007, 11:20 AM
 
I think I remember that a company was marketing those G6s PCs.

I think it may have been before Apple released the iMacs, I think some people had leaked the Intel version of OS X from the dev. Intel boxes that were sold after WWDC 2005/2006.

I don't remember if there was a lawsuit though.
     
Angus_D
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Jul 10, 2007, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
I think that only was able to run on CHRP-compliant systems or on IBM PowerPC systems such as an RS/6000. NT never ran on a Mac released by Apple AFAIK.
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kmkkid
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Jul 10, 2007, 07:28 PM
 
Maybe Apple was suing a company trying to pawn off the PearPC project as an 'intel compatible' version OS X?


In any case, your friend has his 'facts' either made up or twisted.
     
BasketofPuppies
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Jul 10, 2007, 09:02 PM
 
Apple, from 1994 until the late 1990's, sold Macs with 486 or Pentium cards in their PDS slots to run DOS and Windows natively. The first was the Quadra 610 DOS Compatible--later systems were called "PC Compatible." Some third parties, most notably Orange Micro, sold PCI and NuBus cards that did the same thing, but there were performance hits due to the nature of PCI and NuBus.

They all disappeared in the late 1990's when Intel finally had real competition, and as a result you could buy a Windows box for a few hundred dollars, and Virtual PC and SoftWindows (later RealPC) became "fast enough."
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itistoday  (op)
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Jul 11, 2007, 08:35 PM
 
The record has been set straight, and the day saved yet again. Thank you all for your responses.
     
Sourbook
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Jul 11, 2007, 09:39 PM
 
One more thing.
Back in the 90's Apple licensed Umax and Power Computing to make Mac clones. Both of these companies used over-clocked PowerPC chips and advertised "the fastest Mac" Power Computing in particular very prominently advertised the PowerPC Platform. And I think both of these computers could run a 486-card. Some people thought (incorrectly) that these were regular PC's that ran Mac OS. Steve pulled the plug on both upon his return.
     
CharlesS
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Jul 11, 2007, 09:48 PM
 
Over-clocked? Power Computing and UMAX were just faster than Apple in getting the latest processors into their machines, IIRC. In fact, that's a big part of the reason the clones got canned - Power Computing and Motorola both beat Apple to the punch with G3 machines, embarrassing Apple's high-end 604e-based machines of the time. That's why their licenses got yanked first, while UMAX was allowed to continue a little longer than the rest.

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nonhuman
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Jul 11, 2007, 09:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sourbook View Post
One more thing.
Back in the 90's Apple licensed Umax and Power Computing to make Mac clones. Both of these companies used over-clocked PowerPC chips and advertised "the fastest Mac" Power Computing in particular very prominently advertised the PowerPC Platform. And I think both of these computers could run a 486-card. Some people thought (incorrectly) that these were regular PC's that ran Mac OS. Steve pulled the plug on both upon his return.
I had a Power Computing. Don't remember the model name/number, but it was the desktop one. It was a decent enough machine. Unless, of course, you wanted to actually get inside the box. The insides of that thing were a complete mess.
     
CharlesS
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Jul 11, 2007, 10:57 PM
 
^ True, although the PowerComputing cases were absolute heaven compared to the Motorola StarMax line. <shudder>

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Obi Wan's Ghost
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Jul 12, 2007, 02:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
I think that only was able to run on CHRP-compliant systems or on IBM PowerPC systems such as an RS/6000. NT never ran on a Mac released by Apple AFAIK.
Not true. Our local print shop had an Apple Power Macintosh 7300 running NT for print serving jobs.
     
   
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