[analogika]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Not necessarily. Paramount will probably realize 1+ to 2x what they would have from all the double dipping had they remained neutral or gone Blu. Think about it, Paramount is contractually committed to remain red for the next year and release titles on HD DVD. People who already have HD DVD players will continue to buy Paramount titles because they remain exclusive. And people who want Paramount titles right now will still have to buy into HD DVD, if just for that. When their sentence is over and they return to neutral or go Blu, they'll just re-release all those titles in Blu-ray to, hopefully, a larger and more mature HDM market. Don't tell me Blu-ray owners then won't buy all those backlogged titles that had previously been available only in HD DVD.

What you fail to note is that hi-def sales haven't even really STARTED yet. The couple million media sold IN TOTAL right now - and they really are no more than a few million if you throw Blu-Ray and HD-DVD together (first figure I could find is 1.8 million cumulative sales of both formats together at the end of April 2007) are of no interest to anyone, long-term.

The mainstream isn't going to start buying hi-def formats until the dust has settled and Blu-Ray is established as the definite DVD successor.

The suckers who've bought into the HD market so far don't concern, at all.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Michael Bay was right

I am sure he is happy he can eventually release Transformers on BR like he wanted to in the beginning.

[brassplayersrock²]

*sits back and relaxes while watching a HD DVD and then when that is over switching to a blu-ray disk on my LG BH-200 while everyone else is scrambling about*

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

*sits back and relaxes while watching a HD DVD and then when that is over switching to a blu-ray disk on my LG BH-200 while everyone else is scrambling about*

How much you pay for it?

[brassplayersrock²]

$795 through a private source

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

$795 through a private source

How many HD-DVD disks you got?

[brassplayersrock²]

5 HD and 7 blu-ray, plus 100s of DVDs (not counting box sets)

[starman]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Laser disks players were $500 + for years if not more. Not to mention a movie would cost $80 and there was almost no selection, oh and the disks were huge and most players needed you to manually flip the disks.

BR is already doing better in that regard.

No. I had a $125 LD player. I also had a $1000 LD player. Movies were $80 from Fox, $24.95 from Warner.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

No. I had a $125 LD player. I also had a $1000 LD player. Movies were $80 from Fox, $24.95 from Warner.

I knew you were going to post the cheapest laser player you could think of.

The point was for YEARS they were expensive as hell along with the disks.

[starman]

Reaction from the HD-DVD camp:

Sell HD-DVD, go DVD, ignore BR.

How silly.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969151

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

5 HD and 7 blu-ray, plus 100s of DVDs (not counting box sets)

Ok so the value of your 5 HD-DVD disks is what? Say $100 - $150?

You could easily have got a $200 Stand alone HD-DVD player and a $400 PS3 for LESS than your combo player cost.

Even more depressing you could replace those 5 HD-DVD disks with BR versions for about $100 if they are available on BR or at worst DVD.

This is exactly why Combo player for $700+ have always been a stupid idea.

[Eug]

I wonder how much of a spike in PS3 sales there will be after this.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Not really. The war got the price of BR players down much faster than anticipated and studio's still have to convince people to get HD disks over DVD.

Yeah, but they still need to drop the prices further, and discontinue those damn Profile 1.0 machines.

I'll need to go neutral, but I still want a $199 player with Profile 1.1.

Or else a dual-format player for $299, but I think that's unlikely to come before the $199 Profile 1.1 player.

Originally Posted by starman 

IT'S OVER

Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, delivering crushing blow to HD DVD | Crave : The gadget blog

Warner goes Blu

EDIT: ah, crap. Late.

Heh. Welcome to the partay.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I would be major upset if I had got season 1 of BSG or star Trek in HD with over $100 a set.

Well, these two are must haves, so I got them. Annoyed, but not upset. What I am upset about though is the audio problem on disk 2 of Season 1 BSG.

And frack, I'm going to have to return my Star Trek box set, because one of the discs doesn't play consistently. Luckily I contacted the store before the announcement, or they'd think I'm returning it because of that.

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ok so the value of your 5 HD-DVD disks is what? Say $100 - $150?

You could easily have got a $200 Stand alone HD-DVD player and a $400 PS3 for LESS than your combo player cost.

Even more depressing you could replace those 5 HD-DVD disks with BR versions for about $100 if they are available on BR or at worst DVD.

This is exactly why Combo player for $700+ have always been a stupid idea.

then again it's easy. all i have to do is go into a store, see if they have the movie i want and i can buy it, no matter what format. i don't have to go through the disappointment of "oh crap! they don't have it on (insert media type here)" and possible need to go else where. combo players are your friend.

[hyteckit]

I think Warner was premature in announcing Bluray exclusive. Over 500,000 HDDVD players were sold during the holiday season. Most were purchase as gifts. Planet Earth HDDVD were most likely purchased as gifts. They should have waited another month or two to see the effect on HDDVD movies sales of all those HDDVD players bought as presents.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Well, I'm done buying HD for now then. This sucks.

Why? Do you hate having the choice of over half a dozen hardware manufacturers for standalone players? Do you hate Panasonic which is the main inventor of the blu-ray format and manufacturer of many of the blu-ray drive mechanisms?

Are you a fan of Toshiba and the joy of only having one choice for hardware? Are you a fan of MSFT? Do you irrationally hate blu-ray because of the Sony rootkit issue caused by Sony BMG's choice of DRM for some of their CDs in the past? Sony BMG is not directly related in any way to blu-ray.

Does it all boil down to the fact that copying blu-ray is harder and that you cannot use the "backup" excuse because blu-ray includes a hard protective coating on every disc?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, these two are must haves, so I got them. Annoyed, but not upset. What I am upset about though is the audio problem on disk 2 of Season 1 BSG.

Ya BSG is great to have but now what? I mean I don't think season 2 -4 will come out on HD anymore so you are going to have season 1 on HD-DVD and 2-4 on BR. You are gonna have to keep that xbox add on or your stand alone player just for the privalege of watching the few HD's you have.

You might also wait a bit but you know you are going to end up with a BR player sooner or later unless you want to skip the HD on disk from this point on.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I think Warner was premature in announcing Bluray exclusive. Over 500,000 HDDVD players were sold during the holiday season. Most were purchase as gifts. Planet Earth HDDVD were most likely purchased as gifts. They should have waited another month or two to see the effect on HDDVD movies sales of all those HDDVD players bought as presents.

Of those HD DVD players, how many were returned when they realized that they could not playback Disney Blu-rays due to consumer confusion? Of those sold players, how many were bought to be used as an upscaling DVD player? Of those purchased players, how many were sold to HD DVD supporters who were buying a second or third player thereby not increasing potential disc sales? How many of those players will be returned back to the store following this announcement?

How many standalone Blu-ray players and PS3's were sold in that same time period?

The fact of the matter is that Warner did not see the existing standalone HD DVD players let alone the new players translate into HD DVD disc sales and blu-ray has one every week since December of last year when the PS3 was launched in some new markets.

Warner saw that, contrary to HD DVD propaganda, PS3 sales did translate into disc sales.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I guess the firesale on the Toshiba HDDVD players at the end of the year was too little too late.

The constant BOGO sales and firesale on Bluray players won out. Constant firesale on Bluray players meaning the PS3, selling at a $200 to $300 lost.

hyteckit, I appreciate your pot calling the kettle black argument but there's a key distinction you're misunderstanding. As I noted before, selling game consoles at a loss is industry practice because subsequent sales of titles and licensing fees make up for it. Not to mention that the product life cycle of a game console stretches for years, during which time the component prices and overall costs of manufacturing go down and the company eventually realizes profits on each unit sold. This is not a "fire sale" because it is a common long-term sales strategy.

A "fire sale," on the other hand, like that which Toshiba/Best Buy/Walmart put on during the holiday shopping season was a special sale of a consumer electronic, at a heavily marked down price, because of remaining stock (some 70,000 to 100,000) on a model unit that was being discontinued. This is a "fire sale."

The big complaint that standalone Blu-ray players are more expensive than standalone HD DVD players is thus. Toshiba manufactures maybe 90% or more of HD DVD units sold and if they want to eat up their hardware costs "to sell razor blades" and pass on the savings to the consumer, there's little competition to upset. On the other hand, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, et al would like to see profitability on their standalones, and, at least the latter two, have less at stake in the war as long as they make money on their CE hardware. In part to this, you won't see heavily discounted Blu-ray hardware other than the PS3 (which, as noted above, is a factor of it being a game console).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

then again it's easy. all i have to do is go into a store, see if they have the movie i want and i can buy it, no matter what format. i don't have to go through the disappointment of "oh crap! they don't have it on (insert media type here)" and possible need to go else where. combo players are your friend.

Ya if you don't mind paying $750 for that small privilege of getting it on HD and not DVD. Since you seem happy with that more power to ya.

[Face Ache]

If Apple went with HD-DVD (and HD-DVD won the war), how long would it be before Microsoft's HDi™ was not "fully supported" on Macs?

[starman]

I'm just glad something won. I was rooting for Blu anyway.

[brassplayersrock²]

actually i can get it on HD, blu-ray, and dvd. i thought i made that clear?

edit:
holy timestamp batman

[Shaddim]

Awesome! Best news I've heard all day!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Does it all boil down to the fact that copying blu-ray is harder and that you cannot use the "backup" excuse because blu-ray includes a hard protective coating on every disc?

For me, I refuse to buy any format the binds the media physically to a disc. Media on a disc means that the disc format can be pushed off the market, leaving you unable to play your media. This is actually a perfect example. Once HD-DVD players go off the market, people will no longer be able to play their HD-DVD content.

If managed copy was implemented today, I could go out and buy HD-DVD discs, copy them to my computer, and continue playing them now until the end of time regardless of what happens to HD-DVD. I refuse to buy a format that will just continue the endless cycle of having to buy a new copy of the movie when people decide to change the physical format. If Bluray discs were compatible with managed copy, I would gladly buy Bluray. But Bluray doesn't meet my requirements as a format, so I won't buy it at all.

[Eug]

Toshiba's Comment on Announcement from Warner Bros. Entertainment of Its Exclusive... | Reuters

TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.'
decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there
are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of
HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close
partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize
the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its
next-generation successor.
We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of
the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other
regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market
in 2007.
We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD
DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in
our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the
consumer.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya BSG is great to have but now what? I mean I don't think season 2 -4 will come out on HD anymore so you are going to have season 1 on HD-DVD and 2-4 on BR. You are gonna have to keep that xbox add on or your stand alone player just for the privalege of watching the few HD's you have.

You might also wait a bit but you know you are going to end up with a BR player sooner or later unless you want to skip the HD on disk from this point on.

Dunno about Season 3-4 but maybe 2. Remember, Universal seems to hate Blu-ray. However, if the Warner defection does mean the slow death of HD DVD like most think it would be, then they'll go Blu-ray... eventually. Just not right away.

Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, I'll get a Blu-ray player once they have Profile 1.1 players for $199 (or there's a cheap and good combo).

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

actually i can get it on HD, blu-ray, and dvd. i thought i made that clear?

edit:
holy timestamp batman

Oh I get it my point is you paid a lot for that where individual ones would have even cost less. Combo players are a rip off.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

If Apple went with HD-DVD (and HD-DVD won the war), how long would it be before Microsoft's HDi™ was not "fully supported" on Macs?

Probably wouldn't be an issue. I would assume Apple themselves would be writing the HDi implementation. HDi is a documented standard.

[brassplayersrock²]

and yet, i only have one cable going into my tv rather than 2 and more shelf space.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

and yet, i only have one cable going into my tv rather than 2 and more shelf space.

And it was aaaaallll worth it for your whooping HD-DVD disk library. All 5 of them.

Next time but the money towards a bigger shelf or another cable

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Toshiba's Comment on Announcement from Warner Bros. Entertainment of Its Exclusive... | Reuters
TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.'
decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there
are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of
HD DVD.

In other words, "We're going to have our lawyers look over those contracts and sue Warner Bros. for breach."

Or, in other words, "Waaaaaaaaahhhhh!"

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I wonder if this is making apple re-consider any possible combo players in the upcoming MacPro update.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Of those HD DVD players, how many were returned when they realized that they could not playback Disney Blu-rays due to consumer confusion? Of those sold players, how many were bought to be used as an upscaling DVD player? Of those purchased players, how many were sold to HD DVD supporters who were buying a second or third player thereby not increasing potential disc sales? How many of those players will be returned back to the store following this announcement?

How many standalone Blu-ray players and PS3's were sold in that same time period?

The fact of the matter is that Warner did not see the existing standalone HD DVD players let alone the new players translate into HD DVD disc sales and blu-ray has one every week since December of last year when the PS3 was launched in some new markets.

Warner saw that, contrary to HD DVD propaganda, PS3 sales did translate into disc sales.

Your are kidding me right? You are basing HDDVD returns on Disney movies?

You think 1 week after Christmas is enough to determine if all those HDDVD players sold during the holiday season would translate to HDDVD movies sales? Wow, I'm glad you are not in marketing.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

In other words, "We're going to have our lawyers look over those contracts and sue Warner Bros. for breach."

Or, in other words, "Waaaaaaaaahhhhh!"

Ya and Warner is going to keep that in mind the next time this sort of thing comes up from Toshiba.

At least warner will sell HD-DVD for the next 5 months. Paramount pulled everything off the shelves that was BR the week of their HD only announcement.

[Teronzhul]

Well, I guess I'll eventually be getting a PS3 to compliment my A2. I would have preferred that Warner had gone HD-DVD exclusive, but I'm happy that they finally picked a side. Now maybe this war (and this thread) can finally die.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

In other words, "We're going to have our lawyers look over those contracts and sue Warner Bros. for breach."

Or, in other words, "Waaaaaaaaahhhhh!"

What? So Toshiba shouldn't sue Warner if Warner breach a contract? Then what good is a contract?

If you have a contract with someone and the other person broke the contract, causing you to lose thousands of dollars, you wouldn't sue the other person? If you sue, you are a cry baby?

Talk about fanboyism.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I think Warner was premature in announcing Bluray exclusive. Over 500,000 HDDVD players were sold during the holiday season. Most were purchase as gifts. Planet Earth HDDVD were most likely purchased as gifts. They should have waited another month or two to see the effect on HDDVD movies sales of all those HDDVD players bought as presents.

Where are you getting these numbers?

As of the end of November, HD DVD had only sold 750,000 standalone and XBox add-ons combined, in all. And as of November, Toshiba was just nearing the 500,000 mark for standalone units. You're trying to say that in the last two- to three-months, Toshiba sold the same number of units or more than it did in the previous year and a half?

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Paramount pulled everything off the shelves that was BR the week of their HD only announcement.

[Dr. Phil] And how's that workin' for ya? [/Dr. Phil]

[analogue SPRINKLES]

First Blu-ray BD Profile 1.1 Review (Verdict: Is That All?)

A rundown of BR profile 1.1.

1) The features HD fans have been bragging about for a year and a half are a bit of a snoozer
2) PS3 is still the best system to buy for BR disks because of price, performance and features. Try to get over the IR argument.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Where are you getting these numbers?

As of the end of November, HD DVD had only sold 750,000 standalone and XBox add-ons combined, in all. And as of November, Toshiba was just nearing the 500,000 mark for standalone units. You're trying to say that in the last two- to three-months, Toshiba sold the same number of units or more than it did in the previous year and a half?

I'm saying 500,000 HDDVD players were sold during Nov and Dec, basically doubling the number of HDVD players in consumer's home.

[Shaddim]

I don't know, I've been wary of combo players since my Pioneer DVL-919 LD/DVD player debacle. It was always in the shop until I finally got fed up and sold it.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Doesn't matter much to me, I won't be buying Bluray. In the short term, nobody wins. ...

WHAT??? Now everybody wins except for a few short term losses. Only fools have been buying HD players up to this point because we all knew there was a 50% chance we'd get screwed when one side won! That's why HD hasn't taken off and most sales are still DVD. Most people aren't stupid enough to go buy into a dumb corporate war. Now that it's over EVERYBODY can go buy an Blu-ray player and discs without the dread that they are digging themselves in deeper to a dead format. I can't believe it's finally over and that it ended so soon. Thank you Warner.

[brassplayersrock²]

shaddim
combo players have come along way since the LD/DVD combos my friend. trust me on this!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

WHAT??? Now everybody wins except for a few short term losses. Only fools have been buying HD players up to this point because we all knew there was a 50% chance we'd get screwed when one side won! That's why HD hasn't taken off and most sales are still DVD. Most people aren't stupid enough to go buy into a dumb corporate war. Now that it's over EVERYBODY can go buy an Blu-ray player and discs without the dread that they are digging themselves in deeper to a dead format. I can't believe it's finally over and that it ended so soon. Thank you Warner.

Great. Everybody wins. Then find me a cheap player I can play all the movies I want on. Thx.

[hyteckit]

People are not buying HDDVD or Bluray because they are expensive and most people are happy with their DVD players.

Even if HDDVD never existed, not many people are going to spend over $600 on a bluray player.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I'm saying Toshiba sold 500,000 standalone units during Nov and Dec.

Who cares even if it is correct.
That just makes warners decision more relevant and backs up exactly why they went exclusive.

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry,"

In other words those 500,000 might have made a small dent in BR sales or heck it could have brought the war to 50/50 6 months from now.

The point is this is not good for consumers OR studios. To many people don't want to buy players or disks until there is one format. We don't need 50/50, 70/30, 60/40. We need 100% in ONE format like DVD.

Warners announcement is pretty much flat out saying the want HD-DVD off the market so everyone can move on with ONE format and actually buy players and disks without worry of it going Betamax.

I have a lot of respect for Warner being smart enough to watch a year of strong sales on the BR side and realized the consumer pretty much decided which they wanted 12 months ago and took the right path to bring this to an end. Basing it on stand alone players with the hope that they might sell in the future is ridiculous.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Even if HDDVD never existed, not many people are going to spend over $600 on a bluray player.

Yup, many wouldn't but lots did. It also showed that $200 HD-DVD players with managed copy protection and PiP isn't what the consumer wanted either.

Good thing BR player are down to $300 now but even when they were $600-$1000 they still did better than HD-DVD in movie sales. Lesson learnt hopefully.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ --
We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the consumer.

Toshiba 'Surprised' By Warner Blu-ray Announcement | High-Def Digest

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

What? So Toshiba shouldn't sue Warner if Warner breach a contract? Then what good is a contract?

If you have a contract with someone and the other person broke the contract, causing you to lose thousands of dollars, you wouldn't sue the other person? If you sue, you are a cry baby?

Talk about fanboyism.

hyteckit, if you're feeling bitter about picking a losing format that you've only enjoyed for two months before the writing on the wall became clear, it's okay, I get you. I understand the fanaticism of fanboys who invested hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars on a losing format. I don't understand, however, why some people base their entire decision on the idea that Sony is evil or Microsoft is evil. I'm not saying either fit your situation, but there's no need to throw erroneous facts around, as you've been doing, to prove a contrary point, that HD DVD is on the losing the war.

I make no assertions that I'm not a Blu supporter. More importantly than that, though, I'm a high def media lover. And I'm glad that finally one format looks like it has the win over another, and further that it's Blu-ray instead of HD DVD. I've been trying to be reasonable and accurate with my arguments as to why I think Blu-ray will win out over HD DVD. And I think this latest bit of news is the topping on the cake. The words that essentially capture the same thrust of my arguments are coming out of Time Warner's President and CEO himself.

I'm all for contracts to be enforced, but I find it surprising that Warner's defection elicited a veil litigious response from Toshiba when they and/or their partners were instrumental in securing the defection of Paramount/Dreamworks to even more immediate effect with borderline anti-competitive and anti-trust tactics. I'm not privy to the terms of any alleged contract between Toshiba and Warner, but if there in fact is one that ensures Warner continuing to support HD DVD then I'm curious as to the prior legal relationship between the Blu-ray group and Paramount and why I didn't hear "Suit!" when Paramount declared exclusivity. Time Warner has money enough to have a legal department evaluate their move towards exclusivity, and I wouldn't doubt that whatever contract they had with HD DVD was at-will or was for terms to end in May. You cannot deny Toshiba is more desperate today than it was yesterday.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I'm saying 500,000 HDDVD players were sold during Nov and Dec, basically doubling the number of HDVD players in consumer's home.

Source?

As of the end of November, HD DVD Promo Group: HD DVD Player Sales Top 750,000 | High-Def Digest, with fire sale numbers factored in.

[aristotles]

There are sub-300 dollar blu-ray players out there already folks and the prices will come down when economies of scale kick in. Toshiba was dumping their product onto the market way below cost. If you want a blu-ray player that also plays back Divx and WMV off the HD, you can pickup a 40GB PS3.