Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

328iGuy · Mar 2, 2007, 11:37 AM

Hey

Just wondering, is the only version of Bootcamp that is available in Beta mode and does it have an expiry?

Reason I ask is I am wanting to install it on my new Macbook I will be using for work, due to the fact that the applications I will need are Windows (Yuck) based?

Also, when trying to install Windows through bootcamp, when it gets to the install windows screen and asks to hit "EnteR" the keyboard officially stops working all together. IS there anyway around this?

Thanks a lot

goMac · Mar 2, 2007, 12:33 PM

Boot Camp is beta, but due to how it works, it won't be able to shut off when it expires. The Boot Camp partitioning software won't work, but the bits that let you boot Windows are actually in the firmware that shipped with the machine, so even when Bootcamp expires you will still continue to be able to boot Windows.

328iGuy · Mar 2, 2007, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Boot Camp is beta, but due to how it works, it won't be able to shut off when it expires. The Boot Camp partitioning software won't work, but the bits that let you boot Windows are actually in the firmware that shipped with the machine, so even when Bootcamp expires you will still continue to be able to boot Windows.

Alright, I just now need to figure out how to get XP Professional installed, as my keyboard stops working at the Windows Install screen when you are supposed to hit "Enter"

.

goMac · Mar 2, 2007, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by 328iGuy

Alright, I just now need to figure out how to get XP Professional installed, as my keyboard stops working at the Windows Install screen when you are supposed to hit "Enter"

.

Make sure you have a SP2 disc. I've had similar issues when I was using older discs.

328iGuy · Mar 2, 2007, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Make sure you have a SP2 disc. I've had similar issues when I was using older discs.

I will double check.

Atheist · Mar 2, 2007, 04:20 PM

For what it's worth, you may find Parallels Desktop a better solution than Boot Camp. I run a Windows XP VM in full screen mode in a virtual desktop window. That way I can switch from Mac to XP in a single keystroke. I couldn't imagine having to shut down my Mac every time I wanted to use XP. Although I guess if gaming is your thing, Parallels isn't a solution.

328iGuy · Mar 2, 2007, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Atheist

For what it's worth, you may find Parallels Desktop a better solution than Boot Camp. I run a Windows XP VM in full screen mode in a virtual desktop window. That way I can switch from Mac to XP in a single keystroke. I couldn't imagine having to shut down my Mac every time I wanted to use XP. Although I guess if gaming is your thing, Parallels isn't a solution.

I run Parallels as well on my iMac, but for buisness use, I don't think Parallels would suffice. I run fairly intensive java apps that aren't supported on OSX during every buisness day, so I figure it will probably work better outside of a VM environment and boot directly into an XP environment.

Atheist · Mar 2, 2007, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by 328iGuy

I run Parallels as well on my iMac, but for buisness use, I don't think Parallels would suffice. I run fairly intensive java apps that aren't supported on OSX during every buisness day, so I figure it will probably work better outside of a VM environment and boot directly into an XP environment.

I guess I don't understand. Is it a performance issue with Parallels? Does the VM environment not fully support the java apps? I'd be curious to understand what it is about XP in a VM that won't work with java.

328iGuy · Mar 2, 2007, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Atheist

I guess I don't understand. Is it a performance issue with Parallels? Does the VM environment not fully support the java apps? I'd be curious to understand what it is about XP in a VM that won't work with java.

Its more aof a performance hit when the OS can't utilize 100% of the physical memory, it needs to share with OOSX as well, you can only allocate so much of the 2GB to the Parallels OS, when the other part is utilized by OSX.

besson3c · Mar 2, 2007, 07:17 PM

When you run Parallels, there is no Windows emulation or quasi-Windows simulation going on.. You are actually running Windows. The only caveat is that Parallels has to emulate a video card since it doesn't support Windows apps having direct access to your hardware. You may have problems getting some peripherals and such to work too, but for running Java apps there should be absolutely no difference in functionality and capability between the two, and if you have enough RAM the difference in speed should be negligible.

besson3c · Mar 2, 2007, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by 328iGuy

Its more aof a performance hit when the OS can't utilize 100% of the physical memory, it needs to share with OOSX as well, you can only allocate so much of the 2GB to the Parallels OS, when the other part is utilized by OSX.

When Parallels is idling, it shouldn't claim these resources.

danbrew · Mar 3, 2007, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

When you run Parallels, there is no Windows emulation or quasi-Windows simulation going on.. You are actually running Windows. The only caveat is that Parallels has to emulate a video card since it doesn't support Windows apps having direct access to your hardware. You may have problems getting some peripherals and such to work too, but for running Java apps there should be absolutely no difference in functionality and capability between the two, and if you have enough RAM the difference in speed should be negligible.

I'd disagree with this post - Parallels *is* emulating an intel environment on top of OS X. While you may be running Windows, you're running Windows in an emulated envrionment. This isn't necessarily bad, and is a great solution for folks that want to run both OS environments at the same time. There is absolutely something to be said to be able to click elsewhere on the screen and drop from Windows to OS X. But it is an emulated environment - which is why there are some driver issues and problems with code that wants to directly access the hardware.

While I know everybody is different, and our uses probably differ from person to person, I think Bootcamp is a great solution. It takes less than a minute to reboot the machine, hold down the option key, and select the other operating system. I've partitioned one of my drives as a FAT32 drive, thus making it read/write on both platforms, so it's relatively easy to quickly move files, data, etc., from one platform to another. Also, if you're working with larger data sets, you probably have external storage that can be accessed by both platforms.

besson3c · Mar 3, 2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by danbrew

I'd disagree with this post - Parallels *is* emulating an intel environment on top of OS X. While you may be running Windows, you're running Windows in an emulated envrionment. This isn't necessarily bad, and is a great solution for folks that want to run both OS environments at the same time. There is absolutely something to be said to be able to click elsewhere on the screen and drop from Windows to OS X. But it is an emulated environment - which is why there are some driver issues and problems with code that wants to directly access the hardware.

While I know everybody is different, and our uses probably differ from person to person, I think Bootcamp is a great solution. It takes less than a minute to reboot the machine, hold down the option key, and select the other operating system. I've partitioned one of my drives as a FAT32 drive, thus making it read/write on both platforms, so it's relatively easy to quickly move files, data, etc., from one platform to another. Also, if you're working with larger data sets, you probably have external storage that can be accessed by both platforms.

No offense, but you can disagree as much as you want... However, the fact remains that Parallels provides a para-virtualized environment on Intel machines, not an emulated one. Same goes with VMWare.

While it is true that a video card is being emulated, this still falls exactly inline with the definition of para-virtualization, which is the most common form of virtualization.

VirtualPC/Qemu: emulator
Virtual PC/Parallels: para-virtualization
Xen: full virtualization on supported hardware/OSes

danbrew · Mar 3, 2007, 03:17 PM

No offense taken. My intent was to simply state that you've got something in between Windows and the devices - that's emulation or virtualization in my book. I kind of think those words mean the same thing in this context.

Where we can agree, though, is that there is not much of a performance hit when using Parallels and it is a good solution for folks that want to click back and forth between operating environments.

Time will tell whether Parallels will be successful in the market. As an aside, I'd bet there are lots of dedicated music devices that won't work with Parallels.

besson3c · Mar 3, 2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by danbrew

No offense taken. My intent was to simply state that you've got something in between Windows and the devices - that's emulation or virtualization in my book. I kind of think those words mean the same thing in this context.

Where we can agree, though, is that there is not much of a performance hit when using Parallels and it is a good solution for folks that want to click back and forth between operating environments.

Time will tell whether Parallels will be successful in the market. As an aside, I'd bet there are lots of dedicated music devices that won't work with Parallels.

I see where you're coming from. However, I also think that it is important to be ultra specific with this language as to not to conflate the two. There is a significant difference in the technologies behind Virtual PC on a PPC Mac vs. any virtualized environment, and the end results certainly reflect this

brokenjago · Mar 3, 2007, 10:06 PM

Time will tell whether Parallels will be successful in the market.

I was under the impression that it was indeed very successful. Apple is certainly pimping Parallels for all your Windows-based needs.

alex_kac · Mar 4, 2007, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by 328iGuy

I run Parallels as well on my iMac, but for buisness use, I don't think Parallels would suffice. I run fairly intensive java apps that aren't supported on OSX during every buisness day, so I figure it will probably work better outside of a VM environment and boot directly into an XP environment.

Well..I run very intensive business apps on Parallels. How about compiling major applications in VS 2005 while running Office 2007, running Windows Mobile emulators (yes an ARM emulator within a VM), and QuickBooks 2007 without problems on Parallels. I get about 90-95% CPU speed of a real machine. The only real slow down is disk access.