[seanyepez]

Please vote here.

I vote aye.

[JHromadka]

I have one and haven't had any graphics related problems (in OS9 or X) so I vote nay.

[seanyepez]

I'm not talking about problems, I'm talking about graphics performance in 3D applications.

[haunebu]

I will not buy the TiBook because it has such an outdated graphics chip.

Jeezus, man, how many threads are there about this?

[DKeithA]

NAY. The graphics chip is fine. If you want to play games, get a tower with a Geforce 3 or just buy the new Dell.

------------------
I'm fickle?

[denim]

Buy a Dell? Boo Hiss!

Yeah, I wouldn't buy the G4PB with its current config. Nice looks, not enough push.

To Steve Jobs: If ya can't build a powerful machine, find out why and fire that person/company.

[This message has been edited by denim (edited 04-24-2001).]

[RWoelk]

Yeah, I would love to see a better graphics chip before buying my lady friend her TI, but I would just as much like to see a faster bus. Personally, I am very pleased with my Pismo so it will be quite awhile before I need to upgrade.

------------------
Rocke "Why yes, I have brought our
network down." Woelk

Only the educated are free!-Epictetus

the tiBook is fine for those wishing to upgrade from their ibooks or are considering getting a laptop. I think that a lot of us Pismo owners, however, don't see much of an incentive to getting the tiBook considering it's current feature set. I'm patiently waiting for rev.B, until then i'll stick with my trusty pismo.

[M�lum]

Ofcourse the graphics chip could be better, but I don't need one.

For gaming a larger screen would be much better, and build in surround speakers too.......

[yhsu]

I vote NO.

If you've got a Pismo, the TiBook isn't really a worthwhile upgrade unless you just HAVE to have the looks. The TiBook is basically the Pismo in new duds and a G4.

Having not had an Apple laptop since the PB180, the TiBook was a no-brainer for me, and for my basic needs I have no complaints about the graphics chipset or bus performance. I'm sure the next TiBook will be quite nice, but I'll have had a good 8-12 months use out of mine by then


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Cheers,
Yuta

[dviant]

That's a good part of my reason for not buying one.

There's just not enough incentive coming from a Pismo. Comparing low-end discount Pismo to low-end PB G4, I'd would have paid about $700 more for altivec, 128 horizontal pixels, and a neat-o thin case. Yeahhhh... I don't think so. Pass.

Count me out until the low-end PB G4 has *at least* 500mhz G4, 16mb M4, and bigger than 10gb hard drive. Don't really care about drive bays just want better, faster hardware for my money.

[cschmelz]

Originally posted by dviant:
That's a good part of my reason for not buying one.

There's just not enough incentive coming from a Pismo. Comparing low-end discount Pismo to low-end PB G4, I'd would have paid about $700 more for altivec, 128 horizontal pixels, and a neat-o thin case. Yeahhhh... I don't think so. Pass.

Count me out until the low-end PB G4 has *at least* 500mhz G4, 16mb M4, and bigger than 10gb hard drive. Don't really care about drive bays just want better, faster hardware for my money.

I pretty much agree. A new MAJOR upgrade in a system should have upgrades to all the parts, especially as Apple does BIG upgrades only rarely. Why buy the supposed cutting edge when it has the same graphics subsystem as the previous year old model?

Just as any major revision in the G4 Towers should have better subsystems (graphics, RAM speed (as in new PC133 RAM and 4x AGP)

[doctre]

I vote NAY (as I am typing this on my 2 week old TiBook 500. The graphics chip in this box is doing just fine under MacOS X and I don't game on this machine (thats what my desktop is for). I needed portability but greater than an 800x600 screen, so I sold my iBook and upgraded. I'm currently enjoying this machine with no regrets (well none until I saw the rumored specs for the new iBook , if its anywhere near that I'll be a tiny bit annoyed). Anyway I'm extraordinarily happy with my purchase.


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--
The Doctre

[Phat Bastard]

I vote NAY, I didn't buy my Tibook to play games on it. Although for a while I was debating getting one or not based on the graphics card issue, I finally decided I don't need a Geforce2Go or whatever card in there and the Rage 128 Mobility is enough.

I'd say 95% of Tibook owners didn't buy the computer to play games on it.

I still have my PIII/650 with a Matrox G400 MAX card, 19" monitor for gaming.

------------------
Phat Bastard
http://members.home.net/pstogios
-brand spankin' new Tibook! Isn't life grand?

[This message has been edited by Phat Bastard (edited 04-24-2001).]

[Ekim Neems]

If price didn't matter, I would vote yes.

But, unfortunately, it does, and I'll be buying my TiBook in the near future, and instead of getting one at retail price with the new chip (which I'll prolly be able to afford no better than 400/256/10gig), I'd rather get a 500mhz/256mb/20gig with the old card for a similar price. That's how I weighed my options, and since my book will mostly be used as a portable recording studio (with the Motu 828 audio interface), the graphic chip isn't as important as the others.

[Arcayx]

I'm on the fence.
I am 90% ready to throw down the $5000+ Canadian for a TiBook 500. The only thing making me unsure has been the graphics chip.
Heck, I was just about to order when I heard about the May 1st announcement and decided to wait another week. Been waiting since January, what's one more week...

------------------
-Cogito, Ego, Sum

[iBorg]

I'm with you Sean - at this point my Pismo 500 does damned near everything that the Ti does, and it does EVERYTHING in gaming that Ti can.

As MUCH better graphics cards for laptops were announced just before Ti was, Apple was going to be on the defensive using the ATi card that they included.

But if Jobs DOESN'T upgrade to the nVidia or Radeon card next month - that's just plain incompetence.

If someone doesn't care if they have a shitty gaming card - that's OK for them. But anyone posting that "it doesn't matter" is either:
1. a friggin' moron, or
2. trying to justify paying top $$ for a laptop with a **** component.



iBorg

[seanyepez]

Very true, iBorg.

[Kestral]

Originally posted by dviant:
That's a good part of my reason for not buying one.

There's just not enough incentive coming from a Pismo. Comparing low-end discount Pismo to low-end PB G4, I'd would have paid about $700 more for altivec, 128 horizontal pixels, and a neat-o thin case. Yeahhhh... I don't think so. Pass.

Count me out until the low-end PB G4 has *at least* 500mhz G4, 16mb M4, and bigger than 10gb hard drive. Don't really care about drive bays just want better, faster hardware for my money.

I concur with the above.

I'd buy a new Ti if only it had a better graphics card that would last me for the next minimum of 4 years. Assuming that graphic intensive applications will be comming out in the next 4 years, such as OS, graphic programs, (not so much as to the games but that would be nice). Also I'd like to be able to hook things up to a huge flat screen up on my wall. High res stuff with both the displays (LCD and Plasma) on without jitters. But right now I'm happy with my current rig. Perfect for the news show I produce, or the radio program I air in Thailand. Pismo 500 DV, hooked to a SOny VX 2ke is perfect. Bliss.

[Cipher13]

Its one of many reasons.


------------------

[haunebu]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Its one of many reasons.

"Cipher," I'm just curious: Why did you decide to rip-off BadMoon's logo and stick it in your .sig?


[This message has been edited by haunebu (edited 04-25-2001).]

[Captain Kangaroo]

OK, why would Apple announce a revision of the Ti only 3 months after shipping. I just doesn't make sense. They are back ordered cannot find the machines throughout Australia. The Ti is back ordered around 4 weeks. They are selling like hotcakes.

No business big or small will turn down the high margins Apple is getting by increasing the processor speed and hard drive etc.. that will lower returns on the machine. They have to upgrade the ibook and imac.

Yes they will upgrade the graphics chip but not until July it is not just a simple as replacing the chip takes a motherboard upgrade. It would be great to have the 16mb graphics chip but if they do announce it I will be sad because it is not a good business and Apple needs to think more about numbers for the next quarter.

Plus the new graphics card will be just in time for Ti shipping with MacOS X preinstalled in July. Anyway picking up my Ti this week, my Wallstreet is falling to pieces.

My two cents
CK

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by haunebu:
"Cipher," I'm just curious: Why did you decide to rip-off BadMoon's logo and stick it in your .sig?


[This message has been edited by haunebu (edited 04-25-2001).]

Um... I've never been to that site before, and I don't see any logo that looks ANYTHING like mine there...

I made mine, from scratch, in Photoshop... I didn't even use a bloody text mask... maybe you could link me to the image I supposedly copied?


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[haunebu]

Just seemed a bit suspicious.

[M�lum]

--

[This message has been edited by M�lum (edited 04-25-2001).]

[M�lum]

How many people buy PBG4 for gaming?
Percentage wise probably close to zero.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by haunebu:
Just seemed a bit suspicious.

Yeah... ok... they're both red and black... I suppose I copied the NetfliX ad too huh?


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[seanyepez]

Damn. I hope Apple is watching this topic.

[chemical x]

Its also missing raw speed. With gHz pc's here, I need more speed than 400-500mHz.. G4? Don't believe the hype.

Plus I owned a G4 400 in October of 1999. That was a year and a half ago...c'mon! What ever happened to Moore's law?

[godzappa]

I am waiting for Rev B

I do alot of graphics, I have a desktop G4 but want a portable, so I want the better Video card.

I ALSO play games when not working and would love to be able to have LAN games at the house or office , so yes the video card is important for both reasons.

And if Maya X ran reasonably well on a Ti book when it's revised then it would be more incentive to wait and buy both in (hopefully) July.

A MHZ jump would be welcome but not as vital, my main concerns that I would like improved before buying the Ti would be the video card and structural stuff like scratch proofing (did someone say they used Liquid Glass?) and bending.. all things I know will be fixed in a new upgrade..

So I wait patiently

Make that impatiently.. I WANT ONE!

James

[dviant]

Originally posted by M�lum:
How many people buy PBG4 for gaming?
Percentage wise probably close to zero.

And why do you think that is exactly?

*cough* 8mb ATI Rage 128 Mobility sucks *cough cough*

You create your market. A better graphics chip would perhaps increase the market for the PB G4. Yeah not every gamer has $2500 or $3500 to blow on a portable gaming rig, but there's plenty of Pismo owners that aren't upgrading right now for hardware reasons.

PB G4 rev B in May or July? I dunno at first I'd say no.. but now I'm not so sure. On one hand it hasn't been that long since it's introduction and like someone said they are back-ordered even in their current config so plenty of people are ok with it's current hardware.

However, on the other hand... if Apple updates the iBook in only a few of the ways that rumor sites are saying it really brings it much closer to the TiBook. Apple will need to do something to give the TiBook a better perceived value. Also, as far as back ordering goes maybe that means they are going through their rev A stock and will soon replenish with rev B? I really don't know if Apple Store is back ordering US Orders right now though so that may be a moot point (someone had mentioned Intl back-orders).

[origin3]

I didn't think the graphics chip would stop me from buying the TiBook. Also, I guess Apple made the right choice by playing safe with the Mobility 128 in the first revision. I don't think they could afford driver problems that could be expected with an entirely new chip.

However, now that I have the money I'm starting to think that I'll either be sitting on the fence a little longer, or maybe go for a desktop instead. I want to play some games on it, and I realized today that Fly! II, coming June 1st will require 16 megs as a minimum. (www.iflytri.com) I guess this is symptomatic for games appearing later this year. Like many have said, if I want to do hard core gaming, I'd be buying a desktop. But it is important to me that my machine can satisfy minimum requirements.

Maybe it's better for Apple in the short term to sell rev A TiBooks as long as possible, but if they want to expand their user base in the long run, I think specs must compete with what's out there. I realize that most users are happy with the machine as it is, but would it be very hard to offer BTO choice on this? (Are Radeon Mobile and Mobility 128 pin compatible? GeForce2Go would be harder I guess.)

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main(){printf("Hello MacNN Forums!\n");}

[M�lum]

Originally posted by dviant:
And why do you think that is exactly?
*cough* 8mb ATI Rage 128 Mobility sucks *cough cough*
You create your market....

Bless you..., but buying an PBG4 for gaming... come on!

Most people who buy PBG4 DON'T play games, but use it professionally.

For most of these games you need a joystick, ofcourse all businessmen travel with one...

It's a disgrace the PBG4 comes without a joystick! Now that's a reason not to buy one.

I do intensive video, sound and graphic design on my PBG4 and I'm very happy with it.

Of course, at home I've got a DualG4 which does it better, the screen is also 4 times as big, but it's not very portable.

If the newly available graphics chips are usable in the PBG4 without any major problems (heat/ battery/ space/ dunno) then they will coem to the PBG4.

They MIGHT increase sales, but not in a significant way. They might make the PBG4 more expensive or a less "balanced" product which MIGHT reduce sales......

[lenz]

Sorry if i'm repeating but I stopped reading half way down(there are like 60 posts!). N E ways, i would pay the extra $700 for the light weight and looks and specially altivec and that huge screen over a pismo. But knowing that the rev 2 in June-July *will* have either a GForce2Go or a RadeonMobility, I think you'd have to be insane or too rich to buy the TiBook right now.

[Kalessin]

Originally posted by lenz:
Sorry if i'm repeating but I stopped reading half way down(there are like 60 posts!). N E ways, i would pay the extra $700 for the light weight and looks and specially altivec and that huge screen over a pismo. But knowing that the rev 2 in June-July *will* have either a GForce2Go or a RadeonMobility, I think you'd have to be insane or too rich to buy the TiBook right now.

I think the misunderstanding here is that the target audience for PowerBook G4s uses the machine for [i]work/[i]. If you are considering a TiBook purely for gaming and can wait until August, then you are more likely to be insane or too rich than the guy who happens to be in the market for a laptop now and frankly needs it now for work.

Just my $.02 on that.

Kalessin

[iBorg]

This thread has gotten a bit insane, turning into a pi**ing contest between current owners saying "I like it like it is - don't add anything to match the competition, and make my 'Book out-of-date" vs. those who ARE waiting to upgrade/buy because of current inadequacies of Ti!

If you already have a Ti, and are happy with its current shortcomings, then good for you - carry on! But I think that there is an increasing number of potential buyers (including myself) who ARE waiting to upgrade, because of one or more current deficiencies, and the outdated Rage Mobility chip is a major one for many of us! I'm sorry for those of you who will feel "ripped off" when Ti is upgraded in May, or July, but that's tough, guys & gals, but that's progress, even if you just spent top dollar!

If Jobs DOESN'T upgrade to Radeon or nVidia, this will be a major marketing screw-up. And he's no moron.........



iBorg

[seanyepez]

Amen.

I vote NO... I got my Ti 3 weeks ago and I still can play Quake3 on our LAN at work after 5pm... but I didn t get it for playing Quake3 or UT... the Rage inside is good enough for that...if I really want to play a game I use my 733 or my backup G4 with the Radeon... There is no need for a Geforce2 inside the Ti unless you want to play super high quality FPGs

Stop complaining, get a Ti now and if Apple comes out with a better version later on (like they will anyway) just sell your 1st gen Ti and get the new model

Ti rules and all my friends drewl on it when I use it in meetings. It DOES NOT need a Geeforce2 inside... for **** sake it is a powerbook not a games station/machine

[M�lum]

Originally posted by iBorg:
.....
If you already have a Ti, and are happy with its current shortcomings, then good for you - carry on! But I think that there is an increasing number of potential buyers (including myself) who ARE waiting to upgrade, because of one or more current deficiencies, and the outdated Rage Mobility chip is a major one for many of us! .....
iBorg

But iBorg, instead of buying the updated version, when it's coming, you better wait because they'll update that one too, and that one also, and so on.

I suppose you know that waiting for THE ultimate computer is a waste of time. They' ll always come better.

And for the "feeling ripped of when the Ti is upgraded in may"; any computer buyer get's ripped off if you see things that way.

[iBorg]

Originally posted by M�lum:
But iBorg, instead of buying the updated version, when it's coming, you better wait because they'll update that one too, and that one also, and so on.

I suppose you know that waiting for THE ultimate computer is a waste of time. They' ll always come better.

And for the "feeling ripped of when the Ti is upgraded in may"; any computer buyer get's ripped off if you see things that way.

If you'll re-read my post, you're making my point, exactly! The "nay" posts, seems to be mainly from Rev. A Ti buyers, whose ONLY reason for opposing a graphics chip upgrade, is the fear of being "left behind!" As posted, I said that the "naye" voters in this thread seem to feel that they've been "ripped off" if the upgrade comes now!

I, on the other hand, will be satisified with Rev. B, including either the Radeon or nVidia graphics upgrade, REALIZING that the "next best thing" is already on the horizon! But I WON'T oppose the next upgrade just because I won't have it - that's sheer lunacy!

As one of the Mac-faithful, and a buyer of 5 Mac desktops, and 3 Mac PowerBooks, with plans for many, many future upgrades, I WANT Apple to stay on the cutting edge of technology, to keep the company, and the OS, strong and healthy, so that I'm not forced to "slum it" with the Wintel crowd......

Capice?



iBorg

I will honestly sell my Wintel desktop and buy a Tibook with OSX right away if I can get an Nvidia in it.

After 7 years of Wintel, I wanna come back to mac but ive been use to Nvidia performance and IQ in the past 3 years...

- Red

[seanyepez]

You can play Quake on your LAN at work, but you end up at the bottom of the scoreboard because of FPS limitations.

[scairns]

I vote aye.

What I really love, are the following type of comments . . .
"I use my Ti as a 'work' machine. If I want to play games, I use my desktop. You should do what I do."
or
"I don't play games. If you want to play games, get a desktop."

What? Just because you can afford a Ti, you can automatically afford a separate desktop machine?
If you want to play games, you 'have' to own a separate desktop machine?

I waited to purchase a Mac laptop with the Pismo specs because it was first laptop that I thought could REPLACE my desktop (G3 upgraded 7600 - sold to help buy Pismo) because I wanted a Macintosh computer that delivers on the promise of freedom that laptops offer.
I wanted the ability to take my computer (singular) from home to work to wherever I want to use it, for whatever purpose, work or leisure.
I don't want to HAVE to own two computers.

I see the Ti also as a desktop replacement sans PCI capability, not a portable to be used in conjunction with a desktop.
As Apple's flagship laptop, it provides almost everything:
# in-built high speed/convenient communications facilities (Fire-wire, 100Mbit Ethernet, Wireless ethernet, USB).
# an option as to which CPU level you wish to pay for (400MHz, 500MHz).
# upgrade paths for storage and RAM.
# provision for a PCMCIA card, for specialist work (SCSI, sound, whatever).

If Apple are only going to provide one high-end laptop on which to run their OS, and they either cannot, or choose to not offer different video controller options, then the least they can do is to offer the best video controller available on the market.

It is obvious from the number of different video cards on the market that there are MANY people who WANT the option for a video card that has higher performance specs to what is considered "standard".

Better video performance provides WAY more useability to me than alti-vec capabilty, which is currently unsupported in the programs which I use.

When the Ti provides SIGNIFICANT benefits over the Pismo, I'll consider it.
Right now, to me, that comes down to video capability.

Regards,
Stuart.

[This message has been edited by scairns (edited 04-26-2001).]

I couldn't have said it better.

[seanyepez]

Amen, Stu.

[haunebu]

Word.

[drainyoo]

your people are a bunch of cry babies. i use my Ti for web design, video editing, sound editing and gaming. Its perfect for everything. The chip is fine!!! Eventually we will get a better graphics chip. The only thing you will have trouble with is doing high-end 3d animation and if you're doing that then you shouldn't be looking into buying a laptop. YOU NEED A DESKTOP WITH A 256 MEG CARD. There is no laptop on earth that can do that. And another thing, i read all these post about how the Ti isnt that much different than the PISMO. Are people F*cking stupid? The Ti is faster, the Ti is lighter, the TI is thinner, the Ti has a wider screen, the Ti has better battery life, THE TI HAS A G4, the keyboard is much more solid, the TI is made out of TITANIUM and the TI looks better. Should i continue? So please stop trying to find its flaws, cause its still the first of its kind. I guess you people just cant afford so you have to abuse it.

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Love is suicide

[chemical x]

Originally posted by drainyoo:
Are people F*cking stupid? The Ti is faster, the Ti is lighter, the TI is thinner, the Ti has a wider screen, the Ti has better battery life, THE TI HAS A G4, the keyboard is much more solid, the TI is made out of TITANIUM and the TI looks better. Should i continue?

I think people mean internally, and performance wise...and guess what they are RIGHT. Check the benchmarks. One Altivec unit is the only difference.
Wait, there is one more difference, the Ti lost a firewire port . So if you are interested in more than aesthetics, you wait for revB. Period.

Sure the graphics chip is fine, but there are now better ones.
The G3 500 in my Pismo is also fine, no problems�
I want more VRAM and a fast chip to drive an external monitor at higher resolution and faster.
I also want DVI out alongside the VGA port.
Is not everything going flatpanels?
Just DVI-D would be fine, too. they can ship it with a DVI-D to VGA converter (they ship a converter now anyway).
I could then drive any monitor I want (even Aplle Cinema Display with the Gefen converter).
New displays coming our way next week?