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bbales · Feb 16, 2008, 11:38 AM

So I have a copy of Leopard. I have a mid-'07 shiny iMac, with 3 GB of RAM. And I even have the time to devote, finally, to installing Leopard. It appears most people seem pretty happy with it (esp. after this new upgrade).

So my question is, are people happy with it? Really sorry they installed it and want to go back to Tiger? I'm thinking of just going ahead on Sunday and spending my afternoon happily updating the OS.

Cold Warrior · Feb 16, 2008, 11:44 AM

No, not sorry.

Sherman Homan · Feb 16, 2008, 11:47 AM

Sorry, not sorry.

harbinger75 · Feb 16, 2008, 12:11 PM

Modified: "Is anybody SORRY Leopard was preinstalled on their system?"

Nope. Happy as can be at this point. I reserve the right to bitch in the future, but I've been happy so far.

bearcatrp · Feb 16, 2008, 12:18 PM

Any major change will take time to get the bugs out. Sorry, no. But I reverted back to tiger until the kinks are out. Have both installed on the mac pro. probably start using it around the 5th update. By then, hopefully it will mostly fixed. The firewall is probably my biggest complaint. When all apps get rewritten to 64 bit, then I expect smooth sailing.

chabig · Feb 16, 2008, 12:23 PM

Steve Ballmer is sorry I installed Leopard.

bbales · Feb 16, 2008, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

Any major change will take time to get the bugs out. Sorry, no. But I reverted back to tiger until the kinks are out. Have both installed on the mac pro. probably start using it around the 5th update. By then, hopefully it will mostly fixed. The firewall is probably my biggest complaint. When all apps get rewritten to 64 bit, then I expect smooth sailing.

You have BOTH installed? Is one on an external disk? I haven't looked into the hows, etc., of doing the installation yet. I take it you're just booting up with Tiger, then.

bearcatrp · Feb 16, 2008, 01:06 PM

I have 3 drives on my mac pro. Drive 1 has Leopard. Drive 2 has Tiger which is the default boot drive. Drive 3 is my backup/scratch. If your on a iMac or mini, you can use an external and boot from that holding down the option key when booting, then selecting which OS you want to boot.

ntsc · Feb 20, 2008, 07:29 PM

When all apps get rewritten to 64 bit, then I expect smooth sailing.

what? you know 64-bitness has absolutely no affect on stability, right? if anything 64-bit apps will be less stable since the alterations to the OS are newer than the 32-bit constructs and therefore less well tested.

sorry, its just one of my pet things. all 64-bit stuff is ever gonna get anybody is the ability address more memory on a 64-bit system. if you have no 64-bit system this is going to do you no good at all and its a complete non-feature. if you do have a 64-bit system its still faster to use the 32-bit constructs if you don't need the extra memory (that more than 4gb for *that* application). so at the moment although Leopard has good 64-bit support most of the time application developers should not be using it because most dont need it and it has the potential to slow stuff down.

mindwaves · Feb 20, 2008, 09:09 PM

Best OS since 10.3.

Cadaver · Feb 20, 2008, 09:58 PM

All in all, I'm pretty pleased with Leopard. The Finder performs better than in previous versions (doesn't hang for 10 minutes at a time when a network resource connection is lost). The whole OS seems pretty snappy™. The main thing I don't like is the Spotlight window. Just a window full of icons. I prefer the organization of the Spotlight window of Tiger. But, on the whole, I'm happy I upgraded.

SleePyCode · Feb 21, 2008, 02:27 AM

I like leopard. Very nice, a few bugs. But they seem to be getting less and less noticeable since 10.5.1 and 10.5.2.

The only down side to this is it seems to be taking longer to boot now days. Today was the 3rd time since I installed 10.5.2 that I rebooted my system (my macbook was acting weird) and it took like 30 seconds for it to pull up the login menu after when it appeared it should be loaded.

MacosNerd · Feb 21, 2008, 08:12 AM

Not sorry at all, TM has been a great plus and overall system speed and stability is a plus. Not sure why the other poster wants to wait for the apps to be converted to 64bits before re-loading Leopard. Makes no sense, especially if he's waiting for Photoshop.

I don't know what apps are 64bit vs. 32bit and why should I, they work either way.

OreoCookie · Feb 21, 2008, 08:41 AM

Love it. Especially since Time Machine now plays nice with Aperture

mpancha · Feb 21, 2008, 08:56 AM

I'm not sorry, but not 100% happy with Leopard yet. I'm sure that around 10.5.5 I'll be at 100%, but for now, there are just nagging issues I have, nothing really important, just issues I didn't have in 10.4. For example, my laptop crashes more now than it ever did.

With previous OS releases, I did not have issues that others had when installing the OS immediately upon release or installing updates on release. With 10.5, its a different story.

bearcatrp · Feb 21, 2008, 10:31 AM

This is an interesting read on 32 v 64 bit. Geek Patrol | 32-bit vs 64-bit Performance Under Mac OS X . As with any new OS (or upgrade), it will take time to get the kinks out. One of main gripes with leopard is the firewall settings. Not enough user control like in tiger. Another is time machine. I would prefer to let the user set the time for backup. I'll be running tiger as my main OS until one or 2 more updates for leopard comes out.

driven · Feb 21, 2008, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

All in all, I'm pretty pleased with Leopard. The Finder performs better than in previous versions (doesn't hang for 10 minutes at a time when a network resource connection is lost). The whole OS seems pretty snappy™. The main thing I don't like is the Spotlight window. Just a window full of icons. I prefer the organization of the Spotlight window of Tiger. But, on the whole, I'm happy I upgraded.

That's my ONLY beef with Leopard. I liked the output of Spotlight much better on Tiger.

tridentinecanon · Feb 21, 2008, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by mindwaves

Best OS since 10.3.

Best OS I have used since my IIc.

dan20164 · Feb 21, 2008, 01:34 PM

On my home machine no.

On my Powerbook that I use at work, an empathic yes. The Leopard X11 implementation is non-compliant in that it does not support Pseudocolor visual, which is a show stopper for me. We have some legacy apps that I use quite frequently that need this. I was able to get this working by installing X11 from Tiger, but the 10.5.2 updates takes that away from me. May have no choice now but to go back to Tiger, as Leopard updates keep giving me this X11 trojan..

analogue SPRINKLES · Feb 21, 2008, 05:15 PM

partly because it is so incredibly buggy and it works horribly with spaces and photoshop.

DCJ001 · Feb 21, 2008, 07:20 PM

I've used Leopard since October 26, 2007. The 10.5.2 update cleared up a couple of minor concerns of mine with regard to restoring hierarchical dock folders, eliminating the translucent menu bar, etc. I'm using the Mac shown in my signature with most of the features included in Leopard and everything just works, as it should.

It's my opinion that most people with issues should be a little more patient and learn to adapt to the changes.

moofpup · Feb 21, 2008, 07:22 PM

"partly because it is so incredibly buggy and it works horribly with spaces and photoshop."

Everything is working well for me nd I have had no issues what so ever with photoshop.

bbales · Feb 21, 2008, 08:13 PM

Getting ready to go ahead! Might be tonight, but I think I have to spend an hour driving kids around, so may not get to it until tomorrow.

JKT · 09:18 PM

Frankly, I find the 10.5.2 update to be hugely underwhelming... just what did they fix with such a huge (filesize) update? It seems like very, very little. 90% of the shitty but annoying bugs that have been present in 10.5 since the first release are still there, along with terrible usability issues in Spaces and the Finder (e.g. closing the last window when you eject a disk image even though it wasn't the focus of that window... WTF? It's things like this that make the 10.5 finder the first version since OS X came out where the Finder has got worse rather than better). I would much prefer that Apple had spent some time fixing all the bugs first rather than pissing about with utterly minor things like menu transparency and folder icons in the dock to placate all the fricking whingers out there.

However, TM is just awesome (yet still has room to improve), Spaces has huge potential even though it is half-arsed at the moment, screen sharing is great, Grid view in the Dock and the hidden "Favourite" folders option that you can activate using a hidden default is really good as well (search macosxhints.com to find out what I am talking about). 10.5 will be good but Apple need to fix the bugs, fix the security of the OS and its apps, then polish up the fit and finish of the UI as a priority, rather than adding more features.

analogika · Feb 22, 2008, 06:47 AM

Are you talking about this hint?

macosxhints.com - 10.5: Add a 'recent things' stack to the Dock

JKT · Feb 22, 2008, 07:06 AM

That's the one - you can use it to also add Favourite Volumes and Favourite Items folders (which display the items in your Finder sidebar) to your Dock as well - read the comments to the hint to find out how. I'm assuming Apple didn't keep this in the final release as an exposed feature because the Recent Servers icon will be completely blank (thus leaving you with a big gap in your Dock) if you haven't logged into anything during a session.

MacosNerd · Feb 22, 2008, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

partly because it is so incredibly buggy and it works horribly with spaces and photoshop.

I've had zero problems with photoshop (cs3). I do not find Leopard incredibly. It seems just as stable as tiger was.

Barked · Feb 22, 2008, 10:09 AM

Mostly happy. I had a bad disk that screwed up my install and i spent several hours restoring things after archiving and installing Tiger. I went back to the Apple Store and told them the disk was bad and I wanted a new one. After a brief lecture about returning it beyond the 14 days return period, and a laughable attept by the sales guy to check the disk, he gave me a new one. The new one installed with no problems at all. So far so good...

bbales · Feb 22, 2008, 10:11 AM

Quick question -- think I'd doing the upgrade today. (I don't know why I'm so nervous about this; I think it was the rec at fixit.com to install on a separate hard drive, in case things went belly up. If I did that, I'd probably have to wait to get yet another hard drive. I'm going to clone my existing one on the 500 GB drive I use for backups, then archive and install on my iMac.)

Anyway -- I'm planning to do the install, then do the update right away. Would that be the best plan?

OreoCookie · Feb 22, 2008, 11:40 AM

If you have backups, there is no point in cloning your drive, none. If you have to delete some backups to have enough space, then definitely, do not clone your drive.

Just do an archive and install and you'll be fine. I have yet to experience (first-hand) an update installation of OS X that failed (and I've used OS X since the Developer Preview that preceded the Public Beta

).

JKT · Feb 22, 2008, 02:03 PM

Another recommendation would be to make sure that all your third party software is bang up-to-date. Especially APE if you use it.

analogue SPRINKLES · Feb 22, 2008, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by moofpup

"partly because it is so incredibly buggy and it works horribly with spaces and photoshop."

Everything is working well for me nd I have had no issues what so ever with photoshop.

God knows what you are doing them as it is a known issue from both Apple and Adobe but enjoy your luck.

flabasha · Feb 23, 2008, 12:14 AM

I WASN'T... it's much faster than Tiger was on my old 1ghz TiBook (go figure). That was, UNTIL...

I upgraded to 10.5.2, and suddenly my Airport card won't connect. SysProfiler says it's there, when I reboot it shows reception bars for two seconds, then suddenly, poof!, the menu icon changes to blank, and the drop down menu doesn't even give me the option to connect.

Reinstalled 10.5, still no dice. Apparently this is a problem experienced by some g4 powerbook users. For some, removing an "Airport2.kext" file restored functionality. Not for me, and not for unfortunate others.

So now, yeah, I'm bummed about Leopard.

Cadaver · Feb 23, 2008, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

...the Finder (e.g. closing the last window when you eject a disk image even though it wasn't the focus of that window... WTF?

Mine doesn't do that. It'll close the window if I eject a volume only when that volume is the focus of the window. But if I have, say, my Home folder open and I eject by any method another volume the window stays put. Just like I expect it to.

danibo77 · Feb 23, 2008, 03:38 AM

How can you be sorry for having such an intuitive and easy system on you computer

I love it!!

Of course I had my fair share of problems.. as with all new builds, but they are all worth the trouble.

I recently went back to Tiger on an older G4 I have, and it seemed SO old compared to Leopard, I couldn't believe that I had been using that system for so long

Cre8tv · Feb 23, 2008, 05:20 AM

loving it all EXCEPT That they broke the drawer in iCal. I used that every day. It is one of the stupidest (more stupider than thou?) things they have done since OSX killed the apple menu years ago: Make us pay for an 'upgrade' that kills a major function and replaces it with a lame, half thought out kluge, if anything. I need that dang drawer, and I hate it when Apple taketh away, and giveth windows-like unusable software in return.

finalsortie · Feb 23, 2008, 09:02 AM

(1.07 iBook G4, 768 ram, 10.5.2)
My computer boots faster, the batter lasts longer, and the airport is more consistent (i.e. no annoying disconnection problems like I had in Tiger, not that it happened often. . .) Spaces is great, and Expose still works perfectly, even with CS2. Additionally, the new Dictionary.app has support for Japanese (a huge bonus for me.)

Since my computer only has a 32MB integrated 9200 video card I never had any problems with a transparent menu bar

although I do have a reflective dock. . . which I do not like, thus I use the 2-D version, which is awesome!

Screen Sharing is great, and will allow my photos while I am in Japan with my family. (via iChat)

I agree, the 10.5.2 update was is rather unimpressive, aside from returning the dock menus there is not much of a noticeable difference. Which is how it should be, since I have not been having problems.

I would like to see better support for INK and handwriting recognition. . . it seems like they haven't done anything since it was released, but I just started using it, thus I do not know its history.

I also agree that security should be a primary concern in these updates. OS X's security is already great, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

I haven't used time machine. . . The lack of being able to set the backup time is one of the reasons I stay away from it.

I also agree with some of the other posters that the new Spotlight window is not as nice as the one in Tiger.

In any case, I didn't expect 10.5 to be really useable until at least 10.5.3, much like the previous 10.x releases.

ghporter · Feb 23, 2008, 10:35 AM

The only thing I'm sorry about is that my campus Apple Store is out of stock of Leopard at the moment, so I can't get a second copy for my MBP. I love it on my iMac.

tuqqer · Feb 23, 2008, 11:12 AM

Screen Share alone makes the upgrade worth it.

driven · Feb 23, 2008, 11:53 AM

My only disappointment was that they removed the bluetooth phone dialer. I finally got a phone that supported this functionality at the exact same time that they removed it. Bummer.

bbales · Feb 23, 2008, 01:37 PM

I think I read about this before, but reading the note about ical above made me look int he dock -- and ical FINALLY has the actual date on it, even when the program is closed. About time...

I've just started experimenting. So far, no problems. The new dock takes some getting used to, though. And finding my "documents" folder in that stacks thing was quite strange. Like I said, I'm still getting used to everything. I'm looking forward to trying out the preview and screen share and other features.

JKT · Feb 23, 2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by driven

My only disappointment was that they removed the bluetooth phone dialer. I finally got a phone that supported this functionality at the exact same time that they removed it. Bummer.

...and the ability to send SMS messages from Address Book. That is really, really annoying.

driven · Feb 23, 2008, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by JKT

...and the ability to send SMS messages from Address Book. That is really, really annoying.

Agreed. I wish they didn't remove that feature. (Or I wish there were a way to get it back in Leopard)

msuper69 · Feb 24, 2008, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by bbales

I think I read about this before, but reading the note about ical above made me look int he dock -- and ical FINALLY has the actual date on it, even when the program is closed. About time...

...

nothing new there. Tiger had it.

Hal Itosis · 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by bbales

I think I read about this before, but reading the note about ical above made me look int he dock -- and ical FINALLY has the actual date on it, even when the program is closed.

Originally Posted by msuper69

nothing new there. Tiger had it.

Note bbales said: "even when the program is closed."

--

While I'm here: Leopard is a big step above Tiger. Some things don't work for some people. Similar s#!+ happened when folks moved from Panther to Tiger. What... me "SORRY"?!?! Not for a second. [No reason to be.]

msuper69 · Feb 24, 2008, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

Note bbales said: "even when the program is closed."

Yep. Tiger would update the Dock icon even if iCal wasn't running.

Can't recall the program but iCalHelper or something like that would run in the background even when iCal.app wasn't running.

Hal Itosis · Feb 24, 2008, 03:45 AM

All I see is iCalAlarmScheduler ... and the date on the dock is always 17 (unless iCal itself is running).
[this is a known issue... i don't know how many Macs you have, but i've never seen Tiger do the date.]

DarkStarRed · Feb 24, 2008, 06:34 AM

Me I'm happy with my move to Leopard from Tiger from Panther from Jaguar!
Each has made big improvements, it's really the under pinning of Leopard which has advanced.
I bought a copy of Leopard for my niece & asked her what she thought... her move up from Panther to Leopard?
She said not much difference, 0o :< I replied what about iChat sharing, Front-Row, Dashboard, Spaces, DVDplayer,
Stacks & iLife app's?
She replied that she hasn't tried them out yet but likes Stacks & Dashboard + Garageband.

Ofcourse we've had the trash-bug & I've suffered from a Sound-bug but everything else is just fine.

bbales · Feb 24, 2008, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by msuper69

Yep. Tiger would update the Dock icon even if iCal wasn't running.

Can't recall the program but iCalHelper or something like that would run in the background even when iCal.app wasn't running.

Well, I obviously didn't (and don't) have that program, because I'm typing this on my laptop, running Tiger (this machine barely meets Leopard requirements so I think I'm keeping it on Tiger), and looking over at my dock icon for ical I see ... a "17."

ghporter · Feb 24, 2008, 10:52 AM

I believe that you had to have iCal started, even in Tiger, to get it to update the date on the iCal icon. I could be wrong-but I don't think so. I did that specifically on my MBP so I'd have a date display because it just kept saying "Jul 17" if I didn't at least start iCal.