[Sky Captain]

I've been attacked by an overly agressive dog before.
My .45 solved the problem premanently.
The owner even had to pay my hospital bill for the bites on my ankle.

[JLR]

I've been reading avidly through these posts after scouring "dog kills cat" internet postings online. First, I am terribly sorry to hear of Diego's death. From photos posted, I can see that Diego was a beautiful cat. I am sorry for your loss and commend you for your ability to continue to post meaningful and positive responses in a thread that has generated heated debates.

But, just this very evening, about 4 hours ago, my Redbone Coonhound mix killed my neighbor's cat, Lucy. This was witnessed by another neighbor. I am STILL waiting for Lucy's owners to return home. It is almost 5 hours since the unfortunate killing took place. I am anxious and at my wits end because I feel so horribly about what happened and am increasingly agitated that the owners have left their animal outside for so long without even being home. I am terribly fearful that they will blame me for something that was their responsibility.

I have an invisible fence around the perimeter of my property, so my dogs cannot and do not leave their area. What the invisible fence does not and cannot prevent however, is other animals from coming onto the property. The yard is fairly well contained beyond the invisible fence through shrubs, a privacy fence and natural boundaries, so there are really only two points of entry and given that the house and yard is on a hill and set back from the sidewalk, it is very rare for another animal to access the yard.

Lucy, the neighbor cat however, is a beatiful long-white haired cat. Sweet and always outside. I have repeatedly chased her from the yard since I own two sizable dogs, an 80 pound Redbone Coonhound/possibly German Shepherd mix along with a 55 pound Pit Bull/something else mix. They are both females I adopted from animal shelters.

I have mentioned to my neighbor that Lucy comes onto the yard and also that she will often sit where my dogs can see her, but not access her, and drive them crazy.

Tonight however, she came onto the front porch and according to my neighbor who witnessed the event, Ruby (my hound) saw her, immediately ran towards her, got her by the neck and with 2-3 shakes, killed her, breaking her neck almost immediately. My pit bull mix, also named Lucie, did nothing, but sit and watch.

This happened almost 5 hours ago. Since then, I have left notes on my neighbor's door. Consulted 3 different neighbors who were out and about when it happened to make sure they knew the story and to assess their feelings about what happened. They all reassured me that the fault lied with the cat owners and that I was responsible and always kept my dogs contained and looked after. Several indicated that the cat often attempted to get on their property (2 of them are dog owners as well) and they were concerned.

I have been a nervous wreck. It is about 95 degrees out here and I have taken great care to wrap the cat in towels, then a box, and keep her in a cool place. Since I haven't heard from the owners, I went to get ice and placed Lucy in a cooler until I heard from them.

Get this. While writing this post, the cat owner just called. He was kind and indicated that he didn't blame me or the dogs and that the cat was "crazy" as she often just laid in the middle of the street and even came onto my yard, knowing there were dogs there. I was profusely apologetic and crying and glad that he understood and didn't blame my dog for guarding her territory and attacking a cat.

I explained what I'd been doing to keep her body cool and protect her from the elements. It's nearing midnight and he asked if he could come by and get her. I say of course. But then he indicates he'd like to wait until tomorrow (what the #$#%?????) Feeling (needlessly) guilty, I say of course, I'll be up by 7 am, you can get her then or sooner if need be. He says, how about I get her AFTER work around 4 pm? I agree and hang up, furious because this irresponsible jerk doesn't even care enough to get his cat until the day afterwards.

I'm sorry to intrude in a forum I have never read before and don't even know anything about. But, I've been concerned with the knee-jerk reactions displayed against pit bulls and thought this story was relevant and would further evidence the fact that the primary problem with any animal behavior problem has to do with the OWNER and how the pet is raised and contained.

My pit bull watched and did nothing while a coonhound killed a cat that entered my property. This cat's life could have been protected had the owners been more responsible and not let her wander out and about in a neighborhood with many dogs of all shapes and sizes. The guy across the street with two labs said if Lucy (the cat) had entered his (fenced in) yard, his two labs would have killed her too.

I have been crying for hours and the cat owners aren't even concerned enough about their dead cat to come get her immediately. She deserved a better life and death. All pets do.

We can all find examples to justify why a small dog is more prone to this or why a large dog is more prone to that or how pit bulls are the street dog of choice right now and being needlessly exploited and villified by a society that refuses to address real problems with real solutions. I urge those of you who support breed specific legislation to recognize that the real problem is not the breed, but the owner and that the problem of aggressive and dangerous dogs will not be solved in any real or significant way by stigmatizing one breed. Another will quickly take its place.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by JLR

[...]

We can all find examples to justify why a small dog is more prone to this or why a large dog is more prone to that or how pit bulls are the street dog of choice right now and being needlessly exploited and villified by a society that refuses to address real problems with real solutions. I urge those of you who support breed specific legislation to recognize that the real problem is not the breed, but the owner and that the problem of aggressive and dangerous dogs will not be solved in any real or significant way by stigmatizing one breed. Another will quickly take its place.

I agree.

Thanks for taking the time to share this thoughtfully written post.

[g. olson]

All of the aggressive tendencies bred into the pitbull were directed toward animals, not people. In fact, if a fighting dog bit its handler or anyone else it was invariably destroyed. You can clearly see that in the modern pitbull - almost excessively friendly toward people. They make lousy guard dogs because of it. They are much less likely to bite a human than many other breeds that are popular family pets. Unfortunately, like any terrier, they can be dangerous to small furry creatures and sometimes other dogs. Training a pitbull to be tolerant of cats is not difficult if the cats live in the same house, but many if not most dogs are capable of attacking a strange cat who trespasses on their territory. Breed banning is unsuportable by any rational or statistical facts.

[nforcer]

I've never heard anything good about a pitbulls and as such believe they should be banned. The "bad dogs come from bad owners" thing is not right; that might be true sometimes but it is certainly not always the case. My cousins who are some of the nicest and most generous people I know have an extremely aggressive german shepard who will attack anyone but them; they have to tie him up every time I visit. They also have another german shepard who was attacked when she was young by a coyote. This dog is afraid of people and actually runs and hides in places we cannot get to whenever I try to pet it. One time we managed to corner it, I bent down to pet her and give her food, and she pissed everywhere then ran off. I've never seen such a scared animal. So that probably shoots a hole in my "bad breed" idea, but I still have never seen or heard anything good from pitbulls.

We used to have a dalmatian who was aggressive, although not if we were present. He was not abused, always provided for, but because of his behavior (he would corner people and snarl at them) we had him always tied up. One day he got loose and a neighbor's kid was across the street. When I realized the dog was not where he should be I told the kid to stay still and specifically NOT to run. Exciting a dog and thinking you can outrun it is not a good idea. He ignored me and took off running and our dog bit into him quite a bit. Required some staples for his leg. We put that dog down after that happened. We were also very fortunate they didn't sue; they could have been assholes about it like probably most other people in this country would have been. That was probably the greatest thing I learned through that ordeal; don't be an asshole and go around suing when the option presents itself. As long as the owners are offering reasonable compensation and willing to put the dog down so it does not happen again there is no need to sue. Far too many people abuse the legal system as a means of getting revenge and screwing other people instead of trying to fight an injustice done to them.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Pit Bulls are the loose running egos of insecure men.

[Case]

I have a rott and he loves cats. He always cuddles with my cat all the time. And he loves all cats. He playes with the neighbors cats all the time. Anyways sorry for your lose.

[MarathonDeskMount]

Even though I still dislike pitbulls, because of what they were bred for, what they do to other dogs, and the kind of ghetto people who get them, there is one downstairs in my apartment, and it's a really nice dog. They never even use a leash with it, it's so well behaved.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by nforcer

I've never heard anything good about a pitbulls and as such believe they should be banned. The "bad dogs come from bad owners" thing is not right; that might be true sometimes but it is certainly not always the case. My cousins who are some of the nicest and most generous people I know have an extremely aggressive german shepard who will attack anyone but them; they have to tie him up every time I visit. They also have another german shepard who was attacked when she was young by a coyote. This dog is afraid of people and actually runs and hides in places we cannot get to whenever I try to pet it. One time we managed to corner it, I bent down to pet her and give her food, and she pissed everywhere then ran off. I've never seen such a scared animal. So that probably shoots a hole in my "bad breed" idea, but I still have never seen or heard anything good from pitbulls.

We used to have a dalmatian who was aggressive, although not if we were present. He was not abused, always provided for, but because of his behavior (he would corner people and snarl at them) we had him always tied up. One day he got loose and a neighbor's kid was across the street. When I realized the dog was not where he should be I told the kid to stay still and specifically NOT to run. Exciting a dog and thinking you can outrun it is not a good idea. He ignored me and took off running and our dog bit into him quite a bit. Required some staples for his leg. We put that dog down after that happened. We were also very fortunate they didn't sue; they could have been assholes about it like probably most other people in this country would have been. That was probably the greatest thing I learned through that ordeal; don't be an asshole and go around suing when the option presents itself. As long as the owners are offering reasonable compensation and willing to put the dog down so it does not happen again there is no need to sue. Far too many people abuse the legal system as a means of getting revenge and screwing other people instead of trying to fight an injustice done to them.

A good pet owner won't keep an overly aggressive dog, as your cousins did. To me, keeping an aggressive-to-everyone-but-the-owners dog is irresponsible. Again it comes down to irresponsible owners, not bad breeds. Lots of people have well-adjusted German Shepherds that are friendly to all. (The second one was emotionally a mess. I'm not sure what you can do with a dog like that. I doubt that a "coyote" attack would make it afraid of people, though...)

Of course, the German Shepherd did not have aggression to humans bred out of it, as pit bulls did. A pit bull that bit its handler -- during the time when the breed was being developed -- would have been put down on the spot, since a fighting dog must be entirely obedient and handleable, without exception.

And the reason you've never heard of good things about pit bulls is twofold: 1) good news doesn't make the news. Only bad news is "news". If an alleged pit bull bites someone, the newshounds plaster it all over; if a pit bull were to save a drowning baby, it would likely not be publicized because that would undermine the ongoing story of pit bull aggression that the news wants to keep going. 2) You're ignoring the good stories because you subconsciously don't want to have your prejudices (and news following) proven wrong.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

Pit Bulls are the loose running egos of insecure men.

In some socioeconomic circles, yes.

In others, they're just nice family pets.

tooki

[itai195]

Really sorry to hear about your cat. I know we would also be devastated if something like that happened to one of our cats. They're members of our family.

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Pitbulls should be banned. How many incidents like this is it going to take?

I have mixed feelings about that. Pitbulls can be really wonderful dogs when they have a good home and are treated well. Pet owners often keep aggressive dogs of other breeds and nobody seems to complain about that nearly as much.

[tooki]

Well, they have in the past. Rottweilers, Dobermans and German Shepherds have all been the subject of media attention in past decades. It's just Pit Bulls' time now, and unfortunately, since the media has gotten even more alarmist over the years, people have wildly thrown the danger out of proportion.

tooki

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

Pit Bulls are the loose running egos of insecure men.

Originally Posted by tooki

In some socioeconomic circles, yes.

I think this is the elephant in the room. I would wager that the majority of the owners of said dogs which comprise the 'OMG CDC SAYS TEH PITBULL BITES, BITES I TELL YOU!!!' stats are also on the low end of the socio-economic strata. Ban the breed? At best, you will only be banning a symbol. Another breed will surely take its place as the trophy dog to get as a puppy and beat into an agressive neighborhood status symbol.

My personal history with pitbulls sounds close to tooki; its the owner who makes or ruins a dog.

Vexborg, your loss is horrible and I am sorry. Get a kitten and train it to live inside.

[Monique]

Those pitbulls are not dead yet??

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by tooki

In some socioeconomic circles, yes.

In others, they're just nice family pets.

tooki

Well that's how it was in G-vegas while I was in schoool there. They were mean, tire grabbing beasts that just weren't cool enough unless their hang time exceeded 30 min and a case of beer.