[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Tardbus

So you're saying that cars that are acceptable on a racetrack don't handle well? Keep digging the hole Doofy.

Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. Race cars are designed to have high limits and be pushed to the edge of those limits, remaining within traction. A good handling road car will have lower limits and will be entirely predictable once pushed past those limits.
This is why you don't see many Formula 1 cars with their arse out - they're incredibly difficult to control (i.e. crap handling) once you go over the limit.

Again, you demonstrate that you haven't got the slightest idea what the word "handling" means.

Originally Posted by Tardbus

Yep. That's why Subarus suck at rallying. They're just so unpredictable. And that's why neons win roadraces. Because of their awful handling.

Rallying is a different art - you have to engage in all sorts of driving tricky to get the cars to stay on the road (Scandinavian flicks and suchlike). And in case you didn't realise, the cars you see on the rallies are a little bit different than the ones you can go buy at a showroom. As for rally cars on tarmac? I regularly drive faster than that. Did it this morning in that Skyline.

And what road races are these Neons winning? I mean, what are they up against? Fiestas? Neons handle like crap. Period.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Paco500

Some advice. When you reach maturity, you will learn that different != bad. Until then, you are most likely cursed with the unfortunate burden of coming across as an arrogant, self-important jack-ass without much interesting to say.

While it is quite clear you are very impressed with yourself and your myopic world view, those of us over the age of 15 have learned to filter out the bravado and chest thumping.

Hope this helps.

When you reach the age of maturity you will realise that the US doesn't do everything as well as some of its inhabitants are led to believe. I stand by my statement - there are very, very few vehicles which the US has produced which can be said to handle well.
Now, there has to be a reason for this. I suggested a few. There ya go.

If knowing what I'm talking about makes me look like an arrogant, self-important jack-ass without much interesting to say, then hey, knock yourself out.

Hope this helps.

[Tardbus]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. Race cars are designed to have high limits and be pushed to the edge of those limits, remaining within traction. A good handling road car will have lower limits and will be entirely predictable once pushed past those limits.
This is why you don't see many Formula 1 cars with their arse out - they're incredibly difficult to control (i.e. crap handling) once you go over the limit.

Again, you demonstrate that you haven't got the slightest idea what the word "handling" means.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12376935133899

Wrong. Watch the vid. People who drive cars for their job.... saying that 'crap handling' cars such as the evo are extremely "EASY" to drive, and hard to screw up in. They also have higher limits than the lambo. God safari is being lame I can't respond without my CPU usage jumping to 80% in both processors.

Rallying is a different art - you have to engage in all sorts of driving tricky to get the cars to stay on the road (Scandinavian flicks and suchlike). And in case you didn't realise, the cars you see on the rallies are a little bit different than the ones you can go buy at a showroom. As for rally cars on tarmac? I regularly drive faster than that. Did it this morning in that Skyline.

And what road races are these Neons winning? I mean, what are they up against? Fiestas? Neons handle like crap. Period.

I'll respond when safari isn't being gretarded this is taking pu all my cpu and it's hard to type.

[Tardbus]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying. Race cars are designed to have high limits and be pushed to the edge of those limits, remaining within traction. A good handling road car will have lower limits and will be entirely predictable once pushed past those limits.
This is why you don't see many Formula 1 cars with their arse out - they're incredibly difficult to control (i.e. crap handling) once you go over the limit.

Again, you demonstrate that you haven't got the slightest idea what the word "handling" means.

Watch the vid. The crap handling 'high limit' EVO MR that can 'make it through twisty corners faster than a supercar with 'good' handling' that somehow has 'bad handling according to doofy' is described as EXTREMELY EASY TO DRIVE AND VERY FAST AROUND CORNERS by a guy who drives high performance cars for his job.

And what road races are these Neons winning? I mean, what are they up against? Fiestas? Neons handle like crap. Period.

Any race that has a lot of tight turns and not very big straights. Because they grip well, turn well, transition well, and are fast around corners... which somehow means 'bad handling' if you smoke crac.. I mean if you are Doofy.

[Tardbus]

Originally Posted by Doofy

If knowing what I'm talking about makes me look like an arrogant, self-important jack-ass without much interesting to say, then hey, knock yourself out.

In those road race links I posted, the neon outhandles the following 'european' cars:

'63 Turner 1500
'62 MG Midget
'65 Bobsy FV
'82, 83, 84, VW Rabbit
'87 Alfa Spider
'84 VW Rabbit GTI
'94 VW Golf
'87 VW Scirocco 16V
'87 BMW 325is
'72 MGB GT
'79 Tobias Sprint Car
'72 Crossle 20F
'63 Turner 1500
'75 Porsche 914
'73 Caldwell D13
'58 A-H Sprite
'82 FIAT X1/9
'89 Bertone X1/9
'88 Merkur XR4Ti
'90 Porsche 944S2
'71 Porsche 911T
'86 Porsche 944T
'89 BMW 325iX
'94 VW Jetta
'91 VW Jetta GLI 16V
'91 VW Passat
'76 Porsche 911
'70 Porsche 911

So gee, it made it around a tight course faster than a bunch of british roadsters, a bunch of VWs who've always been praised for good handling (rabbits, gtis), a merkur, a few fiats, a few bmws, and a lot of porsches.

Yep. Handles like ****.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Tardbus

Wrong. Watch the vid. People who drive cars for their job.... saying that 'crap handling' cars such as the evo are extremely "EASY" to drive, and hard to screw up in.

Easy to drive and hard to screw up in is not the same as good handling. A modern Porsche 911 is extremely easy to drive and quite hard to screw up in... ...at 9/10. Go to 10/10 and they'll still shove you through the nearest hedge backwards.
This is the point. They've upped the limits so it's hard to breach those limits. It doesn't mean the handling is better - it just means that you're less likely to actually encounter the handling characteristics of the vehicle in the first place.

*Everyone* seriously interested in cars in the UK reading this knows exactly what I'm on about in this thread. Because they know the language used in shows like Top Gear. Let's see if there's anyone around... ..JebJeb... ...what do Evo think about Scoobies and Ferraris and Neons and handling and stuff?

Originally Posted by Tardbus

They also have higher limits than the lambo.

No they don't. I've driven both. You're talking crap.

Originally Posted by Tardbus

The crap handling 'high limit' EVO MR that can 'make it through twisty corners faster than a supercar with 'good' handling' that somehow has 'bad handling according to doofy' is described as EXTREMELY EASY TO DRIVE AND VERY FAST AROUND CORNERS by a guy who drives high performance cars for his job.

1) Handling is not what happens when you've still got traction. How many times do I have to tell you this?

2) Clarkson doesn't drive high performance cars for his job. He's a journalist and TV presenter for his job. Likewise with Hammond and Captain Slow. We know this in the UK and you don't know it there in the US because we get all the other shows they present. Like Captain Slow did something about toys the other week. And Hammond has a chat show in the afternoons. And Clarkson will present anything if you give him enough money.

BTW, Clarkson thinks the Neon is crap too.

3) I already said that a Scooby is faster over rural roads than a 550 Maranello. Doesn't mean it has better handling though - in the 550 at speed you're slipping and sliding the thing, having fun. In the Scooby at speed you're hanging on hoping that it doesn't break traction and basically letting the car drive for you.

Originally Posted by Tardbus

Any race that has a lot of tight turns and not very big straights. Because they grip well, turn well, transition well, and are fast around corners... which somehow means 'bad handling' if you smoke crac.. I mean if you are Doofy.

Originally Posted by Tardbus

In those road race links I posted, the neon outhandles the following 'european' cars:

'63 Turner 1500
'62 MG Midget
'65 Bobsy FV
'82, 83, 84, VW Rabbit
'87 Alfa Spider
'84 VW Rabbit GTI
'94 VW Golf
'87 VW Scirocco 16V
'87 BMW 325is
'72 MGB GT
'79 Tobias Sprint Car
'72 Crossle 20F
'63 Turner 1500
'75 Porsche 914
'73 Caldwell D13
'58 A-H Sprite
'82 FIAT X1/9
'89 Bertone X1/9
'88 Merkur XR4Ti
'90 Porsche 944S2
'71 Porsche 911T
'86 Porsche 944T
'89 BMW 325iX
'94 VW Jetta
'91 VW Jetta GLI 16V
'91 VW Passat
'76 Porsche 911
'70 Porsche 911

So gee, it made it around a tight course faster than a bunch of british roadsters, a bunch of VWs who've always been praised for good handling (rabbits, gtis), a merkur, a few fiats, a few bmws, and a lot of porsches.

Yep. Handles like ****.

Right. All those cars are crap at handling. Aside from the 944S2, which has reasonable handling but isn't very powerful (the 944T is a bit too vicious when the turbo kicks in to allow for proper progression). You can coax a good handling performance out of the 911s if you know what you're doing (and most people don't) - 911s of that age tend to run into snap oversteer on a trailing throttle. You can make good use of this because it's quite progressive but you have to know how to provoke it properly and you know where the catch point is. Still, 911s of that age are dog slow. Except the Turbo. Which you really don't want to be driving fast if you like living.

But still. You're talking about speed. I'm talking about handling. Two completely different things. Go see if you can find a vid of Clarkson telling you how he learnt about car handling - it was in some 60's crapbox which only did about 50mph but had perfect handling balance in the wet. It should be out there somewhere.

[macaddict0001]

Originally Posted by Tardbus

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12376935133899

Wrong. Watch the vid. People who drive cars for their job.... saying that 'crap handling' cars such as the evo are extremely "EASY" to drive, and hard to screw up in. They also have higher limits than the lambo. God safari is being lame I can't respond without my CPU usage jumping to 80% in both processors.



I'll respond when safari isn't being gretarded this is taking pu all my cpu and it's hard to type.

You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. or didn't watch the entire video they got that kind of performance adding a huge turbo that takes forever to give you any kind of boost as well as tightening the suspension more than a jumbo jet. Not to mention they put tires so soft they only last 4000 miles (most stock tires should last you 60000) and its an 80000 us car. So just **** off please.

[Tardbus]

Macaddict: I'm sorry, but from your post it's quite clear you have a very weak grasp on the concept of anything automotive. You are not a stupid person, you're just very very ignorant about the subject. Having a large turbo and lots of turbo lag, or stalling from a start or any other factor they mentioned in the video as a 'bad characteristic' had nothing to do with the handling of the car. The reason I posted the video is because Clarkson drives it very fast, and comments on how 'easy' it is to drive, EVEN WHEN he loses traction and the tail end slides out a bit, he says it's incredibly easy to control, and he does a powerslide with 1 finger on the wheel. According to doofy, handling is only when a car loses traction, so since it's so easy to drive past the limit of adhesion of it's tires, it must be a good handling car. But to everyone else in the world, if it can make it through a tight twisty course better than a lambo, it is a good handling car. So either way, it handles well, which Doofy cannot accept. Because then he'd be wrong, and he can never admit that. But again, the tire lifespan, turbo lag, rock hard suspension all HELP the car's handling, which is my argument. The fact that you mention all these things and tell me I didn't watch the video like somehow the 'bad sides' of this car detract from my argument make it quite obvious you don't have the slightest clue as to what the **** you are talking about. The icing on the cake was when you told us that 'most stock tires should last 60,000 miles'. Yeah. Maybe for a camry, accord, or some other boring piece of **** that you probably drive, but not for a performance car.

[MaxPower]

I would encourage you to stay away from the VW. From a previous thread:

The 3 big gotchas on the MKIV Jetta were, ignition coils, window regulators, and the mass airflow sensor. If you still wanted to purchase a new model Jetta, the least I'd do is lurk on the vwvortex forums to see if you can find out if they redesigned those items. If they didn't, you can pretty much gurantee having a nice relationship with the repair department.

Funny story:
About the time our first scheduled oil change, yellow gunk started leaking from all 4 doors onto the kickplate. Really thick, snotlike stuff. So I ask the VW service manager if that lubricant making an exit is leaving something unprotected. So he proceeds to lay this gem on me:

"Well, you see Mr. MaxPower, this car was built for the icy winters of the Autobahn, not this august humidity. So this packing grease that isn't really doing anything in particular is just leaving the car since it is of no use."

So I open the door and show him the 'Hecho en Mexico' sticker and say "hmm, then why is it built in the hot climate of Mexico?"

"........ err.... OH HEY LOOK!!! Your car is ready! Have a good day Mr. MaxPower!"

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

"Well, you see Mr. MaxPower, this car was built for the icy winters of the Autobahn, not this august humidity. So this packing grease that isn't really doing anything in particular is just leaving the car since it is of no use."

So I open the door and show him the 'Hecho en Mexico' sticker and say "hmm, then why is it built in the hot climate of Mexico?"

"........ err.... OH HEY LOOK!!! Your car is ready! Have a good day Mr. MaxPower!"

Classic !

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Tardbus

Having a large turbo and lots of turbo lag, or stalling from a start or any other factor they mentioned in the video as a 'bad characteristic' had nothing to do with the handling of the car.

Originally Posted by Tardbus

But again, the tire lifespan, turbo lag, rock hard suspension all HELP the car's handling

Make your mind up.

You really haven't got the slightest clue what you're on about, have you?

[macaddict0001]

Originally Posted by Tardbus

Macaddict: I'm sorry, but from your post it's quite clear you have a very weak grasp on the concept of anything automotive. You are not a stupid person, you're just very very ignorant about the subject. Having a large turbo and lots of turbo lag, or stalling from a start or any other factor they mentioned in the video as a 'bad characteristic' had nothing to do with the handling of the car. The reason I posted the video is because Clarkson drives it very fast, and comments on how 'easy' it is to drive, EVEN WHEN he loses traction and the tail end slides out a bit, he says it's incredibly easy to control, and he does a powerslide with 1 finger on the wheel. According to doofy, handling is only when a car loses traction, so since it's so easy to drive past the limit of adhesion of it's tires, it must be a good handling car. But to everyone else in the world, if it can make it through a tight twisty course better than a lambo, it is a good handling car. So either way, it handles well, which Doofy cannot accept. Because then he'd be wrong, and he can never admit that. But again, the tire lifespan, turbo lag, rock hard suspension all HELP the car's handling, which is my argument. The fact that you mention all these things and tell me I didn't watch the video like somehow the 'bad sides' of this car detract from my argument make it quite obvious you don't have the slightest clue as to what the **** you are talking about. The icing on the cake was when you told us that 'most stock tires should last 60,000 miles'. Yeah. Maybe for a camry, accord, or some other boring piece of **** that you probably drive, but not for a performance car.

My point is that this is not an inexpensive car and it is not an on-road car, whether it is street-legal or not it is a dumb as running slicks in the winter. even the softest tires one puts on their bmw should last 10000 miles simply because otherwise the cost would be too high even for one who owns a bmw. while I admit that it has good handling on the track, it would simply not cut it in real driving conditions, it is as practical on road as a 125 shifter.

[only120xs]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

I would encourage you to stay away from the VW. From a previous thread:

The 3 big gotchas on the MKIV Jetta were, ignition coils, window regulators, and the mass airflow sensor. If you still wanted to purchase a new model Jetta, the least I'd do is lurk on the vwvortex forums to see if you can find out if they redesigned those items. If they didn't, you can pretty much gurantee having a nice relationship with the repair department.

Funny story:
About the time our first scheduled oil change, yellow gunk started leaking from all 4 doors onto the kickplate. Really thick, snotlike stuff. So I ask the VW service manager if that lubricant making an exit is leaving something unprotected. So he proceeds to lay this gem on me:

"Well, you see Mr. MaxPower, this car was built for the icy winters of the Autobahn, not this august humidity. So this packing grease that isn't really doing anything in particular is just leaving the car since it is of no use."

So I open the door and show him the 'Hecho en Mexico' sticker and say "hmm, then why is it built in the hot climate of Mexico?"

"........ err.... OH HEY LOOK!!! Your car is ready! Have a good day Mr. MaxPower!"

Yeah, I'm leery about VW anyway because of family experience. I'm tossing around the idea of going a little higher and getting a Volvo s40 or Saab 9-3 or something else comparable. I think I like the s40 though...

[JoshKurtz]

I've had two Jetta's that were both great cars. I traded my 2L 2002 in on a 1.8T 2004. Then my wife and I had a kid so we traded the 1.8T in on a Nissan Quest. It rocks.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Doofy

When you reach the age of maturity you will realise that the US doesn't do everything as well as some of its inhabitants are led to believe. I stand by my statement - there are very, very few vehicles which the US has produced which can be said to handle well.
Now, there has to be a reason for this. I suggested a few. There ya go.

If knowing what I'm talking about makes me look like an arrogant, self-important jack-ass without much interesting to say, then hey, knock yourself out.

Hope this helps.

I'm not here defending the US. I'm hardly what one would call a "patriot," and I'm certainly far from xenophobic. This has nothing to do with the US vs. everyone else. The difference between you and Rob is that while you both come across as childish and intractable, Rob at least has the intellectual honesty to take supportable positions, and he goes to maniacal lengths finding supporting documentation. You just voice narrow opinions and state them as indisputable facts. Your only supporting information is that you claim to be an expert in "handling" because A) You are British and B) You drive every exotic super car known to man on a semi-regular basis (a claim, BTW, about as likely as if you had claimed to have bed all of the top super models. Methinks you have, at best, a causal association with the truth).

Rob perhaps overstates his case, but has provided quite a bit of third party opinions and documentation that seem to support the general consensus that the neon (albeit ugly, uncomfortable, poorly built and unreliable) handles pretty well. This is further supported by the fact that neon's are pretty popular with amateur racers in the SCCA. I'm sure your response will be that the "A" in SCCA immediately discounts any expertise they might have, but that would be a classic example of unsupported arrogance, close mindedness and general unpleasantness.

You make yourself out to be the grand, single repository for all knowledge and wisdom based solely on your country of origin, your wild financial success and your James Bond/Richard Branson like lifestyle. My best guess is you are a lonely, doughy, balding middle-aged limey redneck that drives a beefed up Soccer Mom's car from the mid 90's and whose fabulous life style consists mainly of getting in to pissing matches with unstable mid-westerners on a macintosh bulletin board.

We're all impressed.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by only120xs

Yeah, I'm leery about VW anyway because of family experience. I'm tossing around the idea of going a little higher and getting a Volvo s40 or Saab 9-3 or something else comparable. I think I like the s40 though...

Well whatever you get, you have to supply us with pics

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Paco500

I'm not here defending the US. I'm hardly what one would call a "patriot," and I'm certainly far from xenophobic. This has nothing to do with the US vs. everyone else. The difference between you and Rob is that while you both come across as childish and intractable, Rob at least has the intellectual honesty to take supportable positions, and he goes to maniacal lengths finding supporting documentation. You just voice narrow opinions and state them as indisputable facts. Your only supporting information is that you claim to be an expert in "handling" because A) You are British and B) You drive every exotic super car known to man on a semi-regular basis (a claim, BTW, about as likely as if you had claimed to have bed all of the top super models. Methinks you have, at best, a causal association with the truth).

Rob perhaps overstates his case, but has provided quite a bit of third party opinions and documentation that seem to support the general consensus that the neon (albeit ugly, uncomfortable, poorly built and unreliable) handles pretty well. This is further supported by the fact that neon's are pretty popular with amateur racers in the SCCA. I'm sure your response will be that the "A" in SCCA immediately discounts any expertise they might have, but that would be a classic example of unsupported arrogance, close mindedness and general unpleasantness.

You make yourself out to be the grand, single repository for all knowledge and wisdom based solely on your country of origin, your wild financial success and your James Bond/Richard Branson like lifestyle. My best guess is you are a lonely, doughy, balding middle-aged limey redneck that drives a beefed up Soccer Mom's car from the mid 90's and whose fabulous life style consists mainly of getting in to pissing matches with unstable mid-westerners on a macintosh bulletin board.

We're all impressed.

So. You wanna actually join in the conversation and discuss the topic or are you just going to get your jollies from hurling personal insults around? Congratulations on being an asshole, asshole.

While it's true that I'm a retired record producer and I'm currently sitting in a $2m house which I bought cash, I do not assume myself to be the sole repository for all knowledge and wisdom based on my country of origin. By way of my lifestyle, I just happen to have driven a lot of the cars that Rob has only ever had wet dreams about and approximated on his PS2. You can either choose to take notice of that experience, which I attempt to relay truthfully, or you can go jump. I don't give a toss either way.

Everybody into cars in the UK knows that the Neon is crap. Go ask anyone. You guys are a laughing stock.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Doofy

So. You wanna actually join in the conversation and discuss the topic or are you just going to get your jollies from hurling personal insults around? Congratulations on being an asshole, asshole.

While it's true that I'm a retired record producer and I'm currently sitting in a $2m house which I bought cash, I do not assume myself to be the sole repository for all knowledge and wisdom based on my country of origin. By way of my lifestyle, I just happen to have driven a lot of the cars that Rob has only ever had wet dreams about and approximated on his PS2. You can either choose to take notice of that experience, which I attempt to relay truthfully, or you can go jump. I don't give a toss either way.

Everybody into cars in the UK knows that the Neon is crap. Go ask anyone. You guys are a laughing stock.

And you are an arrogant asshole at best. Most likely a pathological liar.

I know lots of brits. You do not speak for them asshat. On anything.

You started with the personal insults in this thread. You hurl them in most every thread I've seen you participate.

While I am highly suspect of your history, if N'SYNC can make platinum records, I suppose a mouth-breather such as yourself could as well.

Good day to you sir.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Paco500

And you are an arrogant asshole at best.

I'm aware of that. Comes with the job. Gets the chicks hot. Annoys dweebs like you. Works for me.

Originally Posted by Paco500

I know lots of brits. You do not speak for them asshat. On anything.

I never claimed to. I stated my personal opinion.
The fact that most Brits who know anything at all about cars would agree with me is a bonus.

You know lots of Brits? Funny that. So do I. Shall we do a head count or shall we just flop our dicks out and get the measure on them right now?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Everybody into cars in the UK knows that the Neon is crap.

Originally Posted by paco

I know lots of brits. You do not speak for them asshat. On anything.

Originally Posted by Doofy

I never claimed to. I stated my personal opinion.

Holy flip-flop

Originally Posted by Doofy

You know lots of Brits? Funny that. So do I. Shall we do a head count or shall we just flop our dicks out and get the measure on them right now?

Doofy, you started pulling your dick out. $ 2m house and stuff... Why ?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Holy flip-flop

It's my personal opinion. Just happens to coincide with the opinion of everyone who I've ever spoken to about cars who resides in the UK. Including Clarkson.

See... ..I know some Brits... ...and when we're in the pub or on the phone or at the racetrack, we talk amongst ourselves. Strange, no?

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Doofy, you started pulling your dick out. $ 2m house and stuff... Why ?

Looked like the guy was seeking the truth. Figured I'd honour him with it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Looked like the guy was seeking the truth. Figured I'd honour him with it.

truth + dick = true dick !!?!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

truth + dick = true dick !!?!

Awesome.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Doofy

See... ..I know some Brits... ...and when we're in the pub or on the phone or at the racetrack, we talk amongst ourselves. Strange, no?

Oh how precious, you going to a pub. Come on, admit it- you probably never leave your mother's basement.

Honestly, have you ever been on a date with a woman other than Rosy Palm?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Paco500

Oh how precious, you going to a pub. Come on, admit it- you probably never leave your mother's basement.

Originally Posted by Paco500

Honestly, have you ever been on a date with a woman other than Rosy Palm?

Honestly? I get hit on every time I go out of the house. Got it going on, see. That dark sarcastic sense of humour you see on this board get accompanied by Jim Carrey style facial-contortion stuff. Works wonders. Gets 'em laughing. Gets 'em hot and horny. Gets 'em wanting ol' Doof.
There's a downside. Walking into somewhere to be confronted by two gorgeous women sitting side by side who both tell you straight out that they want you so choose between them there and then is a real head messer. I can't get served at McDonalds without the waitress going all doe-eyed. Blokes always think I'm trying to steal their girlfriend 'coz she's usually paying way too much attention to me. It's a bind.

I only date models and model-types ('coz if she's got a body image problem, I don't want to know). Don't usually bump 'em unless it gets serious 'coz I'm not into casual.

I rock. Simple as that. I can't help it if you dweebs don't.

[isao bered]

... and exactly *where* does one sign to join the doofy admiration guild... ;-)

y'know, you do rock sometimes. are you sure you're a brit? you don't seem nearly as uptight as you ought. :-)

be well.

laeth

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by isao bered

... and exactly *where* does one sign to join the doofy admiration guild... ;-)

Well... ...about half of the population gets automatic membership at birth.

As for you blokes, I haven't really thought about that.

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Well... ...about half of the population gets automatic membership at birth.

As for you blokes, I haven't really thought about that.

lol! just pure heterosexual admiration - you are a god among men. ;-)

be well.

laeth