[rtamesis]

I've enabled Root user in NetInfo manager, yet when I log out as an administrator, I still don't see the Root account on the list of users on the login panel. Any solutions to this? I'm using a 800 Mhz dual processor Quicksilver Powermac G4 running Mac OS X 10.3.8. Thanks for any advice!

[Chuckit]

Here's some advice: Don't enable root.

[Big Mac]

The rule is, if you need to ask how to "login to root" you should not be anywhere near root. Why do you want to run as root anyway? Whatever you want to do with root can be accomplished with the much safer sudo command. Not even pros login to the GUI root. So, tell us what you need to do, and we will be able to help you.

[turtle777]

^^^^ What he said !

-t

[Millennium]

What exactly is it that you need to do which requires logging in as root? Seriously; if you cannot answer this question, then you should not log in as root.

[Person Man]

To the original poster, I'll only say this. If you really want to try logging in as root, do your own internet search on logging in as root. Make sure you have a backup first, because if you screw up your system, nobody (and I mean NOBODY) around here will help you. They'll all just say, "I told you so."

To everyone else, if he wants to enable root and muck around and screw up his system, let him. Just like saying "you can't have this" to a child makes them want it even more, simply saying "Don't log in as root or bad things will happen. Trust me." only serves to make less knowledgeable people want to try it even more.

Just refer these people to the internet at large, and tell them to have a backup, and tell them they're on their own if they screw up the system.

Many of the people I know learned to respect the root account by screwing up. For some people, a warning is all that is necessary. For others, they actually have to taste the forbidden fruit and get burnt before they'll take you seriously.

[rtamesis]

Thanks for all your friendly, good natured advice. I found the solution, and in the interest of sharing, I will spell it out here for anyone else who wants to learn more about administering OS X:

1. After activating the root user and assigning it a password in NetInfo Manager, log out.

2. When the login panel comes up, press the command-option and the right hand arrow keys then click on one of the users. You will then be prompted to enter the user name and password.

3. Type in root as the user name and the password that you, as the adminsitrator, assigned the root account in NetInfo Manager earlier. You are now logged in as the root user.

Again, thank you all for being so helpful and free with your advice.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by rtamesis:
Thanks for all your friendly, good natured advice.

It was friendly, good-natured advice. We offered to help you find a good way to do what you need to do. Just because you insist on doing it a bad way (and yes, logging into a root GUI is a bad way to do ANYTHING) doesn't change the fact that we were trying to be helpful.

[wadesworld]

You missed the point. The point is that there is not a reason to login as root.

I've been using OS X since DP4 and have never enabled root.

sudo -s is enough.

Wade

[Uncle Skeleton]

I think y'all are missing the point. The point is that no matter what the subject when giving advice or support, if you tell someone they can't do what they want to do, they'll be mad and try to spite you, and if you tell them how to do what they want to do, then tell them why they don't really want to do it, they generally take your advice gratefully and offer you a shiny nickel.

It's all well and good to know the right thing, but everyone around here comes off incredibly condescending and prissy when you have one relatively new member asking for advice and immediately 5 "addicts" (or mods!) jump down his throat scolding him for even asking. Seriously, try to take a step back now and then and imagine how your posts will be interpreted.

And no, telling them to use sudo will not fly, least of all without a lengthy instruction session. Nobody wants to be told that the GUI is too dangerous but the CLI is easy.

PS. I'm guilty of the same thing sometimes, but for the most part it's when someone asks something stupid like "how do I use this software? all I found was readme files and I don't know what to do with those", and that little uncle devil on my shoulder gets the best of me. Knowing not to enable root is not inherently obvious just because it's hard to do.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
I think y'all are missing the point. The point is that no matter what the subject when giving advice or support, if you tell someone they can't do what they want to do, they'll be mad and try to spite you, and if you tell them how to do what they want to do, then tell them why they don't really want to do it, they generally take your advice gratefully and offer you a shiny nickel.

It's all well and good to know the right thing, but everyone around here comes off incredibly condescending and prissy when you have one relatively new member asking for advice and immediately 5 "addicts" (or mods!) jump down his throat scolding him for even asking. Seriously, try to take a step back now and then and imagine how your posts will be interpreted.

"Scolding" and "jumping down his throat"? What thread are you reading? I just advised him not to enable root � which is GOOD ADVICE. Is being helpful too "prissy" for you?

Anyway, nobody here is paid to come and help people. I do it out of the goodness of my heart (what little of that there may be ). If he wants to ignore my advice, that's his prerogative. I'm not going to hold his hand like a stubborn 2-year-old. If you want to play babysitter, feel free.

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
PS. I'm guilty of the same thing sometimes, but for the most part it's when someone asks something stupid like "how do I use this software? all I found was readme files and I don't know what to do with those", and that little uncle devil on my shoulder gets the best of me. Knowing not to enable root is not inherently obvious just because it's hard to do.

Agreed. And thus I informed him that he shouldn't do it.

[Telusman]

I have used Mac OS X since developer Preview 4 as well, and I have always had root enabled (In DP4 you didn't need to enable it, it was already turned on...) I read this post and as much as the advice is helpful, the tone of condesencion that was involved was extremely high. For all you know, he may have a *valid* reason for wanting to enable the root account.

There is nothing wrong with enabling the root account provided a non trivial password has been applied to it. In fact, I encourage enabling the root acount if only to have a back door that to fix problems should your primary admin account corrupt, something which i've read happening here on more than one occasion. Having root enabled creates no more danger for most users provided they do not do their day-to-day admin activites through the account.

The original poster didn't as *how* to enable the root account, here merely asked how to log in as root, as the login dialog doesn't show root when its set to "list of names that use this computer" I always have mine set to "User name and password field" but as a tip, if you login as root, the next time that you go to the list of users on the computer, there should be a user called "other..." and clicking that will send you to a username and password field for easier access.

As much as I admire everyone for trying to give the guy your very noble opinions, the next time somebody asks for help with something he's already done, why not lend him a hand instead of assuming he's a newbie moron. I myself have kinda done a "wtf" when at the login window in order to get to a username and password field. (which I rectified by always showing a username/password field.)

Even though you may not feel there is a valid reason to login as the root user. I for one enjoy knowing that should my primary (and only) account gets corrupt i'll still have a way to access the GUI and fix the problem without resorting to a boot CD. And just so you know, I am not a UNIX newb either. I've got several years under my belt. I know how to use the CLI. I just feel that your advice, although good nature is unfounded. And treating someone like a child is never welcomed.

- Telusman

[Chuckit]

There is virtually no valid reason for enabling root. Logging into root is necessarily more dangerous (even if only on a small scale) than not using it, and it doesn't confer any more real power than an admin account. Nonzero risk + zero benefit = unwise choice. Basic risk assessment.

Originally posted by Telusman:
Even though you may not feel there is a valid reason to login as the root user. I for one enjoy knowing that should my primary (and only) account gets corrupt i'll still have a way to access the GUI and fix the problem without resorting to a boot CD.

If root login is enabled, then you have two accounts (your primary account plus root), yes? Except that one of them carries an unnecessary risk of stomping all over your system. You'd get the same benefit from having another admin account.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Telusman:
I read this post and as much as the advice is helpful, the tone of condesencion that was involved was extremely high. For all you know, he may have a *valid* reason for wanting to enable the root account.

That would be why I asked. I got no answer.

[Telusman]

Virtually no reason. Well whatever he may have one Logging into root isn't nesscarily anymore dangerous than a person who hasn't got a clue using the sudo command. One slip of the finger in sudo will totally mess your system as fast, if not faster than a slip of the finger when logged in as root. It can be equally dangerous.

Originally posted by Chuckit:
There is virtually no valid reason for enabling root. Logging into root is necessarily more dangerous (even if only on a small scale) than not using it, and it doesn't confer any more real power than an admin account. Nonzero risk + zero benefit = unwise choice. Basic risk assessment.


If root login is enabled, then you have two accounts (your primary account plus root), yes? Except that one of them carries an unnecessary risk of stomping all over your system. You'd get the same benefit from having another admin account.

Root hasn't got the potential of destroying my system if it never gets used unless for emergencies, and as I said, as long as a non trivial password is set he possibility for outside intrusion is also extremely minimal. I'm not downplaying the risk, it has the potential to be very ugly, but as said above, any command done with sudo also has that same potential, and is usually a lot less reversible.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Telusman:
Virtually no reason. Well whatever he may have one Logging into root isn't nesscarily anymore dangerous than a person who hasn't got a clue using the sudo command. One slip of the finger in sudo will totally mess your system as fast, if not faster than a slip of the finger when logged in as root. It can be equally dangerous.

It's only equally dangerous if you actually use sudo for everything, which would be the equivalent of logging in as root. A smart person -and even your average not-so-smart person- doesn't use sudo for everything, however, and that is what makes it safer.

That alone would be good, but there's another reason to avoid logging in as root: the fact that almost every program has the privileges of the person who started it. I do not want to be handing out root privileges to any arbitrary program. This is the sort of thing which has made spyware so easy to write on Windows, and one of the major stumbling blocks that would-be writers of Mac spyware have had to overcome.

[voodoo]

When you once allow sudo in a session does it apply only to the command that immediately followed the sudo or does it apply to other commands you make after that one. Meaning, do I have to sudo every command if I need super user authorization.

Just wandering and don't feel like testing it

[Randman]

If you've noticed, there's a lot of newbies posting here asking questions. Many are new to the Mac platform so it's a reasonable thing to ask why someone would want to log in as root.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by voodoo:
When you once allow sudo in a session does it apply only to the command that immediately followed the sudo or does it apply to other commands you make after that one. Meaning, do I have to sudo every command if I need super user authorization.

You do, in fact, have to sudo every command. However, one thing to be aware of is that if the command you use is a shell (or gets you access to a shell), then that shell will also be executed as root, and so you can use it to perform an arbitrary number of commands with those privileges.

Another thing to be aware of is that even though you have to sudo every command you want to perform as root, you do not always have to give your password. Once you've given it once, sudo won't require it again for a short time; I think it's five minutes.

[Amorya]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
There is virtually no valid reason for enabling root.

Amorya

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Randman:
If you've noticed, there's a lot of newbies posting here asking questions. Many are new to the Mac platform so it's a reasonable thing to ask why someone would want to log in as root.

Then perhaps we should make a (locked) detailed sticky about the root account.

1. We explain what the root account is and why Apple ships the computer with it disabled.
2. We explain why it shouldn't be enabled and what sudo is for.
3. We explain why it's not a good idea to log into the GUI as root. (Permissions and so on).
4. We explain why we don't tell people how to enable the account or log in. That information is readily available elsewhere.
5. We explain that we really can't stop people from doing it, but if they do it anyway, to make sure they have a good backup beforehand and if they mess things up, we won't help them.

Anyone else think this would be a good idea?

[HOMBRESINIESTRO]

I think you should only activate root when you actually have enough knowledge to run it this way:

1. After activating the root user and assigning it a password in NetInfo Manager, log out.

2. When the login panel comes up, press the command-option and the right hand arrow keys then click on one of the users. You will then be prompted to enter the user name and password.

3. Type in >console. Press enter.

4. Type in root as the user name and the password that you, as the adminsitrator, assigned the root account in NetInfo Manager earlier. You are now logged in as the root user in the full screen terminal.

You may then perhaps want to execute the following command:

say -v Cellos "Dum dum dum dum dum dum \
dum he he he ho ho ho fa lah lah lah \
lah lah lah fa lah full hoo hoo hoo"

Or you may want to read the Lord of the Rings with:

cat /usr/share/calendar/calendar.history | grep "LOTR"

and eat some cookies while reading it:

cd /usr/share/emacs/21.2/etc
pico COOKIES

p.s. You should really _try_ this at least for once without activating the root account.
p.p.s. You can exit the full screen terminal with "exit".

[ReefHobbyist]

Originally posted by voodoo:
When you once allow sudo in a session does it apply only to the command that immediately followed the sudo or does it apply to other commands you make after that one. Meaning, do I have to sudo every command if I need super user authorization.

Just wandering and don't feel like testing it

I know I may be just adding to the problem here, but in the interest of sharing information regarding root if you use the following comnand:

sudo su -

You will actually become the root user in that shell until you type exit or close the window.

The su simply means "Super User" which is root. The - means read the login files, .profile etc for root.

Similarly you can become any other user on the system without knowing their password by using

sudo su - <account>



So now the disclaimer. If you are a new user and you want to try things as root and mess something up I will give you the solution now -- Reinstall your system from scratch

[ReefHobbyist]

Originally posted by ReefHobbyist:
I know I may be just adding to the problem here, but in the interest of sharing information regarding root if you use the following comnand:

sudo su -

You will actually become the root user in that shell until you type exit or close the window.

The su simply means "Super User" which is root. The - means read the login files, .profile etc for root.

Similarly you can become any other user on the system without knowing their password by using

sudo su - <account>



So now the disclaimer. If you are a new user and you want to try things as root and mess something up I will give you the solution now -- Reinstall your system from scratch

To correct my self, the su may mean "switch user", by not using an account name it defaults to root. I don't have my man pages available on my PC at work so I'm going from memory.

[Richard Edgar]

any command done with sudo also has that same potential, and is usually a lot less reversible

Can you give an example of damage which is more reversible when committed through a logged-in root, as opposed to sudo?

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Can you give an example of damage which is more reversible when committed through a logged-in root, as opposed to sudo?

I think he meant to say that damage done with sudo is (generally) more reversible than damage done logged in as root.* Because the damage is only limited to what command sudo is used with.

* I say (generally) because there are commands that are equally as dangerous to execute using sudo as when logged in as root. The "erase entire contents of hard drive" (which I won't give here for obvious reasons) command that people thought was great fun to tell newbies to type (using sudo) as an introduction to the terminal comes to mind.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by voodoo:
When you once allow sudo in a session does it apply only to the command that immediately followed the sudo or does it apply to other commands you make after that one. Meaning, do I have to sudo every command if I need super user authorization.

You need to type it everytime.
But it will only ask for your password the first time and after some idle time.

Btw, if you want to sudo your last command, just type !! and hit enter.

-t

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
"Scolding" and "jumping down his throat"? What thread are you reading?

Basically, the message the original poster received from each person was "YOU are not qualified to do what you just asked us how to do." That's scolding. The fact that 5 people (with the de facto position of authority of having different color stars for seniority) immediately charged in to say it over and over, without addressing the actual question, constitutes jumping down his throat. I'm not saying he is (or isn't) qualified, and in fact I don't know of a single reason one would need to use the GUI root login*, but the tone of the thread was downright hostile. I know, some of you/us did ask him "why," (in addition to scolding) but at that point it very reasonably might be interpreted as sarcastic or rhetorical.

Originally posted by Person Man:
Then perhaps we should make a (locked) detailed sticky about the root account.

1. We explain what the root account is and why Apple ships the computer with it disabled.
2. We explain why it shouldn't be enabled and what sudo is for, and how to use it
3. We explain why it's not a good idea to log into the GUI as root. (Permissions and so on).
4. We explain why we don't tell people how to enable the account or log in. That information is readily available elsewhere.
5. We explain that we really can't stop people from doing it, but if they do it anyway, to make sure they have a good backup beforehand and if they mess things up, we won't help them.

Anyone else think this would be a good idea?

I absolutely agree. If only to save 5 people from typing it again every time it comes up, but also so it can come across a little more friendly to outsiders ;P



* now a legit question (if that has to be specified)...why does Apple supply a GUI mechanism to enable the GUI root login?

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
* now a legit question (if that has to be specified)...why does Apple supply a GUI mechanism to enable the GUI root login?

Probably to satisfy experienced UNIX system administrators who are unfamiliar with the Macintosh and think that logging into the GUI as root is the only way to get certain things done. (Not that they should know better, but they are unaware of the proper way to do things).

Also, it may be possible that some people might not take the OS seriously if it didn't give you the way to shoot yourself in the foot

Or, it might be a requirement of the process you have to go through before you're allowed to call your operating system a type of "UNIX"

Just conjecture.

[Telusman]

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Can you give an example of damage which is more reversible when committed through a logged-in root, as opposed to sudo?

Sure... Deleting a key system file


GUI:
User right clicks and deletes mach_kernel file... user says "maybe that was a bad idea...." user drags mach_kernel file out of the trash and puts it back where it's mean to be...

CLI:

Buddy comes along and wonders "by golly i say, what is that mach_kernel file?"
buddly goes to terminal sudo rm Mach_kernel

Uh oh... i can't get that back??

Now, that being said, exchange Mach_kernel for any key system file

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
I absolutely agree. If only to save 5 people from typing it again every time it comes up, but also so it can come across a little more friendly to outsiders ;P

Which is why I wrote that suggestion. The first time this came up I got yelled at by a few of the veterans for giving the instructions (privately). So, these days when the question comes up I wait until the veterans have said Don't Do It. Bad Things Will Happen. Trust me.� and then I (politely, I hope) tell people that if they really want to do it, they can find instructions using Google (which is really quite easy), but to be sure they have a backup first, because if they screw up, nobody around here is going to help them because the person ignored the advice already given.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Telusman:
Sure... Deleting a key system file


GUI:
User right clicks and deletes mach_kernel file... user says "maybe that was a bad idea...." user drags mach_kernel file out of the trash and puts it back where it's mean to be...

CLI:

Buddy comes along and wonders "by golly i say, what is that mach_kernel file?"
buddly goes to terminal sudo rm Mach_kernel

Uh oh... i can't get that back??

Now, that being said, exchange Mach_kernel for any key system file

Very weak example.

The counter argument to this would be that the system wouldn't let you trash the file in the first place if you weren't logged in as root.

[Telusman]

Once again, sarcasm "but they are unaware of the proper way to do things" Thats downright silly to say and i know a lot of unix guys that would probably get offended to hear you say that. In factuality, anyone just starting out with OS X is unfamiliar with the Macintosh, it's nothing like they have seen before, so I take that as a moot point. The fact is that Unix people like the freedom to do what they like with their systems. I'm not A Unix geek, but I enjoy that same freedom and OS X gives that to me if i ask for it nicely.

As i've said above, not only is it a great backdoor for myself should my account become corrupted. I also like using the root GUI for certain system changes without being asked for my password every 5 seconds. Also, I have a Mac OS X Server, which asks for a root password by default during the installation. Root has it's uses, as long as they aren't everyday uses. Telling someone that using a gui isn't the proper way to do something is really ubserd, just because it's not what you like to do doesn't mean it's not the way they'd rather go about it. If you do start a cautionary root thread, which i'm all for instead of telling them "don't do it" tell them you advise against it and let them make their own mistakes.

Originally posted by Person Man:
Probably to satisfy experienced UNIX system administrators who are unfamiliar with the Macintosh and think that logging into the GUI as root is the only way to get certain things done. (Not that they should know better, but they are unaware of the proper way to do things).

Also, it may be possible that some people might not take the OS seriously if it didn't give you the way to shoot yourself in the foot

Or, it might be a requirement of the process you have to go through before you're allowed to call your operating system a type of "UNIX"

Just conjecture.

[Big Mac]

If the user is inclined to throw out mach_kernel, there's a pretty good chance that he will not have second thoughts about it. Seriously guys, I think you're blowing this far out of proportion. You make it sounds as if we took the magic out of Christmas for a little child by telling this guy not to login as root. Who knew good advice would be considered rude or heavy handed? The fact is, if you really want to login as root, MacNN is not the only source of information. Googling the keywords "login as root" gives one and all an OS X FAQ graphical guide to the process as the first hit.

[Telusman]

I don't think it's terribly weak at all. I know a lot of people who scower their systems looking for useless files... A friend of mine asked about about what the mach_kernel file was and i told him not to delete it. He uses sudo a lot, and it's just as dangerous for him to sudo delete as it would be for him to delete it via gui, but in the gui it's retreviable, in the rm command there is no repreive if you happen to make an mistake.

I can see what your saying about the counter argument, but the same thing can happen using sudo with the same inexperienced user.

Originally posted by Person Man:
Very weak example.

The counter argument to this would be that the system wouldn't let you trash the file in the first place if you weren't logged in as root.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Telusman:
If you do start a cautionary root thread, which i'm all for instead of telling them "don't do it" tell them you advise against it and let them make their own mistakes.

As I said above, most people around here just say Don't Do It. Bad Things Will Happen. Trust me.� The reason they go no further in explaining how to do it is because if they do, it would constitute (in the eyes of some people) an endorsement of the procedure. They don't want to be seen as endorsing the process because it opens them up to people whining about the damage they did while logged in as root. "If you're not going to help me, why did you tell me how to do it in the first place?" Second, the information is easily found elsewhere, and some people don't want to have to answer the question a million times. Which leads to the attitude displayed here because they're tired of people asking. (Which doesn't make it right, I know).

Also, if you go back to my original response, I said that the answer could be found elsewhere (and is really quite easy to find using Google). I also advised against it and advised making a backup before trying it out if they wanted to do it anyway.

People will do things regardless, but the fact is sometimes the problems that using root can cause are EXTREMELY difficult to fix, EVEN TO A VERY EXPERIENCED USER. That is one of the reasons we say "Don't come crying to us because you ignored the advice we gave you." It basically means we don't have the time to try and diagnose every person's problems caused by reckless logging in as root. These problems could have been avoided by not logging in as root.

Again, I'm not saying the attitude is justified. It probably should change, but I know it won't. Which is why I suggested making a sticky with a "mini MacNN FAQ on root." In order to do it right, people (myself included) will need to drop the attitude long enough to really give thoughtful answers to these common questions ONCE, so they won't ever have to do it again.

I'd do it myself, but I'd kind of like input from ChuckIt, turtle777, Millenium, CharlesS, utidjian and others who are even bigger UNIX geeks than I am.

Perhaps I should do it anyway and then ask for a critique and suggestions from said people?

Also, there's no guarantee any of the moderators would consider making this into a sticky, so I don't want to put forth the effort if it will be in vain. If a moderator (tooki, are you listening?) thinks it's a good idea, then I volunteer to create the text and submit it for critiques/suggestions.

I'm also volunteering to do it because I made sure I had two months off between the end of my medical residency and the start of my full time job in April.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Telusman:
Sure... Deleting a key system file


GUI:
User right clicks and deletes mach_kernel file... user says "maybe that was a bad idea...." user drags mach_kernel file out of the trash and puts it back where it's mean to be...

CLI:

Buddy comes along and wonders "by golly i say, what is that mach_kernel file?"
buddly goes to terminal sudo rm Mach_kernel

Uh oh... i can't get that back??

Now, that being said, exchange Mach_kernel for any key system file

Bad example. The question isn't GUI versus CLI, it's root vs. admin. The analogy should go like this:

Root:
User drags mach_kernel to trash by mistake, mistaking it for a text file he saved on the root level of the drive. It goes there without complaint and gets deleted next empty.

Admin:
User drags mach_kernel to trash - he gets a password box. User thinks, "oh, this must not actually be that popcorn recipe I thought I was deleting." User decides to cancel. Unless user is a moron, in which case he could enter his password and effectively use sudo (well, actually it uses AuthorizationTrampoline, but same idea) to trash the file. But it's one extra step to give a little more warning.

Same goes for the CLI. If the user wasn't deliberately intending to delete a file that was owned by root, he would tend to just use rm and not sudo. The permission warning that would result would allow him still to delete the file with sudo if he really wanted, but the chances of him doing so by accident would be far smaller.

[legacyb4]

We still never found out WHY he wanted to log in as root...

[turtle777]

Originally posted by legacyb4:
We still never found out WHY he wanted to log in as root...

Because he doesn't have a reason besides "I want to do it, I am 1337 and teh c00lX0r".

-t

[Hal Itosis]

Originally posted by Millennium:
What exactly is it that you need to do which requires logging in as root?
Seriously; if you cannot answer this question, then you should not log in as root.

(Sheesh, you guys are as dogmatic as the "don't partition" crowd). Try this one:

PowerBook user wants to use trackpad for clicking on items in the login screen,
but using the admin account's System Preferences to enable trackpad clicking
doesn't affect the login window.

Okay, everyone on the 'no root user' soapbox... show me how easy your method is.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
PowerBook user wants to use trackpad for clicking on items in the login screen,
but using the admin account's System Preferences to enable trackpad clicking
doesn't affect the login window.

Okay, everyone on the 'no root user' soapbox... show me how easy your method is.

I don't have a PowerBook to check (still debating the $1,000 difference between PB and iBook), but I'd imagine you could just use the defaults command to change the trackpad preferences for the root user.

Originally posted by Telusman:
If you do start a cautionary root thread, which i'm all for instead of telling them "don't do it" tell them you advise against it and let them make their own mistakes.

Saying "Don't do it" is advising against it. I see no reason to tell someone that I advise against it when I can just go ahead and advise against it directly.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
Try this one:

PowerBook user wants to use trackpad for clicking on items in the login screen,
but using the admin account's System Preferences to enable trackpad clicking
doesn't affect the login window.

Okay, everyone on the 'no root user' soapbox... show me how easy your method is.

Simple. Just run the System Preferences application as root. No need to log into the whole GUI as root. How? You can either use the Terminal or the GUI.

Terminal method.

1. Open Terminal
2. Type "sudo open " (without the quotes. Also note the space after open) Don't press return yet.
3. Go to the Finder and open the Applications folder.
4. Drag the System Preferences application icon into (onto) the Terminal window. The path to the application will appear in the window.
5. Select the Terminal window and then press return.
6. Enter your password at the prompt. Press return.

The System Preferences application will load and effectively run as root.

GUI method.

First download the application Pseudo.

1. Open Pseudo
2. Drag the System Preferences application into Pseudo's window.
3. Enter password when requested.

The System Preferences application will load and effectively run as root.

Note that Pseudo is shareware. But it is neither crippleware nor nagware.

Slightly more complicated than simply logging into the GUI as root and running System Preferences from there, but LOTS safer and more secure.

(Note: This is why we ask people what they need root to do, so we can tell them how to do it without logging in as root)

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Hal Itosis:
Okay, everyone on the 'no root user' soapbox... show me how easy your method is.

What they said. Happy now ?

-t

[Person Man]

So, how about it mods? Does this topic warrant a sticky? (written in such a way that nobody takes offense)

[Big Mac]

Although the question was directed to mods, I will cast my vote in response to the previous post: No.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Although the question was directed to mods, I will cast my vote in response to the previous post: No.

Second.

[Person Man]

Why no?

This question is only going to come up more and more, and people are going to keep taking offense at the way we handle it.

Please explain why not.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I think you're blowing this far out of proportion. You make it sounds as if we took the magic out of Christmas for a little child by telling this guy not to login as root.

No, we're making it sound like MacNN turns into a bunch of elitist pricks whenever anyone mentions logging in as root in the GUI. Which is accurate. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with pricks on the internet, they're mostly ubiquitous. But for the most part MacNN as a community has avoided that situation in the past and I get the impression they (as a group) would rather go the non-prick route if possible.

Who knew good advice would be considered rude or heavy handed? The fact is, if you really want to login as root, MacNN is not the only source of information. Googling the keywords "login as root" gives one and all an OS X FAQ graphical guide to the process as the first hit.

And that would be a fair policy, if it were a policy. But there's a huge difference between telling someone "discussions of logging in as root at the GUI are not allowed on MacNN forums" and telling them "if you have to ask, you're too stupid to be allowed to know"

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
No, we're making it sound like MacNN turns into a bunch of elitist pricks whenever anyone mentions logging in as root in the GUI. Which is accurate. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with pricks on the internet, they're mostly ubiquitous. But for the most part MacNN as a community has avoided that situation in the past and I get the impression they (as a group) would rather go the non-prick route if possible.

So...

Advising people not to perform a dangerous operation unless they really, really know what they're doing (and probably not even then) and offering to help them find a safer way to do what they want = elitist prick.

Sanctimoniously jumping down fellow posters' throats for trying to offer good, helpful advice = not.

I think you've got your priorities the wrong way around.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Please try not to get defensive about this just because you happened to be one of the people exhibiting the behavior I'm commenting on.

All I'm saying is this. When you tell someone to stay in the shallow end, tell them it's because someone's pet alligator is loose in the deep end and no one should go in, not that if they have to ask where the deep end is they obviously don't know how to swim.

It was mentioned once that we don't get paid for posting here, which begs the question, why do we post here? For me it's to share the knowledge I've stumbled upon over the years with others who might benefit from it. In service of that goal I would not resist the suggestion that people need to hear a "why" when they get told a "don't," otherwise it is their nature to discard the advice all together and develop a great resentment towards me. But I suppose another reason might be to get pleasure from saying "I told you so", in which case people discarding one's advice would be one's bread and butter, and to that one I say "Kudos!"