[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Exactly. 1.3 million sales TOTAL means that only 1/4 of PS3 owners have a BD movie - and that's only if each owner has only one movie and no more than that.

It's probably more like 25-30% of PS3 owners own one BD (and it's probably Talladega Nights).

Home Media Research said that between January 1 through July 1:

- 1,600,000 Blu-ray disks were sold
- 795,000 HD-DVD disks were sold

You can spin that any way you would like, but if this report is to be believed, Blu-ray is beating HD-DVD. I would also note that the PS3 is obviously helping that number as there are more HD-DVD stand alone players.

I guess the real question is... why aren't HD-DVD sales higher?

On a side note, my local Blockbuster just placed large Blu-ray signs in the windows. They also reduced their HD-DVD offerings to one stand, and increased the one stand of Blu-ray movies to four stands...

[Brien]

At this point it's going to go only one of two ways; either Blu-ray is going to win, or they're both going to lose.

[awaspaas]

I hereby declare the format war over. LaserDisc wins.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

Home Media Research said that between January 1 through July 1:

- 1,600,000 Blu-ray disks were sold
- 795,000 HD-DVD disks were sold

You can spin that any way you would like, but if this report is to be believed, Blu-ray is beating HD-DVD. I would also note that the PS3 is obviously helping that number as there are more HD-DVD stand alone players.

I guess the real question is... why aren't HD-DVD sales higher?

On a side note, my local Blockbuster just placed large Blu-ray signs in the windows. They also reduced their HD-DVD offerings to one stand, and increased the one stand of Blu-ray movies to four stands...

I'm not trying to spin anything. Here's the deal:

4.16 million PS3s sold + ~100 thousand standalone players = ~4.26 million Blu-Ray players. 1.6 million Blu-Ray discs sold means only about one third of Blu-Ray owners even bothered to buy a disc for their player this year. *yawn*

~300 thousand HD DVD players. 795 thousand discs sold. That means each and every HD DVD owner bought an average of 2.65 movies each this year.

That means HD DVD owners buy more movies. And despite what Blu-Ray fanboys will tell you, attach rates DO matter. Studios notice that each Blu-Ray player only nets an additional .33 software sales. All Toshiba has to do is push more players into the market and the discs will follow. The numbers don't lie.

[icruise]

I'm not trying to spin anything.

Trying to prove that a format selling less than half as many units as the competion is somehow in a position of strength is the definition of spin.

[starman]

Did you factor in the number of PS3 owners that knew they have a BR drive?

Try that, THEN redo your math.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That means HD DVD owners buy more movies.

Who gives a toss......they're buying the losing format. They're buying a lower capacity crap.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Did you factor in the number of PS3 owners that knew they have a BR drive?

Try that, THEN redo your math.

I'm sorry, why would that matter?

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Who gives a toss......they're buying the losing format. They're buying a lower capacity crap.

Lower capacity crap? Please show me one movie on Blu-Ray that looks any better than HD DVD due to the higher capacity. I'd love to see it.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Lower capacity crap? Please show me one movie on Blu-Ray that looks any better than HD DVD due to the higher capacity. I'd love to see it.

Lower capacity means less back up space and less space for more data and media. So it's crap for the same reason I wouldn't buy a smaller capacity hard drive if I could get a bigger one. Lots of Blu-ray stuff coming soon, like the new Unreal which will have more maps and content, that will turn your HD-DVDs into expensive coasters. Sales matter. HD-DVD won't catch up.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I'm sorry, why would that matter?

Think about it, and then come back with some more spin.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Think about it, and then come back with some more spin.

I have thought about it, and since there's no reasonable person that would use that statistic in calculating format sales I think it's irrelevant. Considering they didn't survey every single PS3 owner, their numbers are inherently flawed.

The point is, for every Blu-Ray player sold .33 movies are sold. For every HD DVD player sold 2.65 movies are sold. The fact that some people don't know they have a Blu-Ray player doesn't matter. It means less movies sold per player.

And I'm not delusional and thinking that these numbers mean HD DVD is winning. Obviously it's being outsold 2-1. But what the numbers DO show is that if Toshiba sells a **** load of players this holiday season sales could *easily* overtake Blu-Ray due to the attach rates. Hell, all they have to do is sell another 300k players and they've caught up.

[Kerrigan]

Sure, and if MS sold a **** load of Zunes then the Zune would beat the iPod.

Heck, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

The point is, for every Blu-Ray player sold .33 movies are sold. For every HD DVD player sold 2.65 movies are sold.

With this magic formula I deduce more Blu-ray player exist in homes because Blu-ray disc sales are higher.

The fact that some people don't know they have a Blu-Ray player doesn't matter.

It does because when they find out then HD-DVD is really gonna get its ass kicked ten times more than right now.

Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray!

Finally going to have a rewritable disc that can back up 50GBs of my data. A proper recovery disc. And I can use my hard drives for other things like pix of chix and downloading illegal M$ warez.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Sure, and if MS sold a **** load of Zunes then the Zune would beat the iPod.

Heck, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

You forget that HD DVD has a 74% marketshare for standalones. They've been able to sell more than Blu-Ray so far, is there some new information that hasn't been posted here to show that it's not still going that way?

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

With this magic formula I deduce more Blu-ray player exist in homes because Blu-ray disc sales are higher.



It does because when they find out then HD-DVD is really gonna get its ass kicked ten times more than right now.

Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray! Blu-ray!

Finally going to have a rewritable disc that can back up 50GBs of my data. A proper recovery disc. And I can use my hard drives for other things like pix of chix and downloading illegal M$ warez.

So wait, Toshiba is working on 51gb HD DVD discs - does that mean you're going to switch to HD DVD when it comes out? Or are you just an irrational fanboy?

[Chongo]

X-bit labs - Hardware news

Samsung’s Duo HD Universal Player to Cost €400.
Samsung’s Blu-ray/HD DVD Player Gets the Price

Category: Multimedia

by Anton Shilov

[ 07/10/2007 | 11:11 PM ]

Samsung Electronics at IFA (Internationale Funhausstellung) conference in
Germany revealed that its first hybrid blue laser-based video player will be relatively affordable and will become available in the fourth quarter of the year.

Samsung’s Duo HD BD-UP5000 will be initially available in Europe and will cost approximately €400 ($550), which is considerably below the cost of LG’s BH100 player that also can playback both Blu-ray and HD DVD movies, reports Digi-Times web-site. It is not exactly clear in which countries the novelty will be available and whether its launch will be supported by widespread availability of Blu-ray or HD DVD movies in Europe.

[Chongo]

Apple is on the Blu-ray board but has not offered a BD burner in any of their new computers yet

[Railroader]

This thread scares me.

[mitchell_pgh]

jokell82, the problem I have with your logic is... Stand alone HD-DVD players can only play movies. People purchasing PS3s can do many things with their systems. Naturally, many of the PS3 buyers aren't going to buy movies as it's primarily a gaming system.

The facts speak for themselves. Blu-ray has been out a shorter period of time and is selling more HD films by a ratio of 2:1. Of the top grossing films coming out, half will be Blu-ray only. Most of the others will be Blu-ray and HD-DVD... and only a small fraction will be HD-DVD only. People will buy the system that offers the most movies.

I would actually rather see HD-DVD win, as the copy protection has been compromised, but I just don't see them winning this war.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Apple is on the Blu-ray board but has not offered a BD burner in any of their new computers yet

Shouldn't they offer a HD player before offering a HD burner?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Samsung’s Duo HD Universal Player to Cost €400.

Yep, there's the end of the format war...

[Railroader]

Will the winner of this electronic penis battle be decided when a cheap hand held unit can be bought at Wal-Mart?

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So wait, ....wanks himself off to the sound of his own bullshit

Fixeted.

[icruise]

Let's try and keep this civil, shall we?

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Let's try and keep this civil, shall we?

Not if he going to call us irrational when he doesn't have a thing to back his silly position up.

[mitchell_pgh]

Chongo, I agree that the hybrid players may be the final solution, but IMHO, it's a compromise. I would rather see a clear winner vs. "paying double" for a hybrid player.

Perhaps when the Blu-ray/HD-DVD players get into the $200 range, we can consider this war over.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Not if he going to call us irrational when he doesn't have a thing to back his silly position up.

If you decide to stay Blu-Ray when HD DVDs go to 51gb, that would be irrational fanboy behavior. You didn't weigh in on the issue, though, just resorted to personal attacks.

In other news, blockinated.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I would actually rather see HD-DVD win, as the copy protection has been compromised, .

so has blu ray

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

If you decide to stay Blu-Ray when HD DVDs go to 51gb, that would be irrational fanboy behavior.

You're badly educated and irrational by your own rules then. Blu-ray is 200GBs in the labs.

And it is outselling HD-DVD by a bigger margin every quarter. Ho di ho.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

If you decide to stay Blu-Ray when HD DVDs go to 51gb, that would be irrational fanboy behavior. You didn't weigh in on the issue, though, just resorted to personal attacks.

In other news, blockinated.

*Sigh*
If you believe 51 GB HD DVD three layer discs created in a lab will play in HD DVD players then I have a bridge to sell you. Someone created a 200GB Blu-ray disc with six layers at 33GB each but nobody is expecting it to play back on consumer players.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

so has blu ray

No it hasn't.

AACS has been compromised [technically not 100% cracked] but you might want to check out BD+ anti-piracy measure. Sony hasn't implemented it on any of their films, but I'm sure they will.

HD-DVD doesn't have any such DRM mechanism. While good for consumers, the movie people will want the extra protection.

[shabbasuraj]

Coke-Pepsi, Spoon-Fork, Taste Great-Less FIlling..

I predict the first consortium to sell a $19.99 CAD player will win this battle.



...allegedly.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

No it hasn't.

AACS has been compromised [technically not 100% cracked] but you might want to check out BD+ anti-piracy measure. Sony hasn't implemented it on any of their films, but I'm sure they will.

I've seen some Sony Blu-ray titles ripped and shared on torrents in full quality.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

I've seen some Sony Blu-ray titles ripped and shared on torrents in full quality.

AACS has been compromised... but BD+ has not.

HD-DVD uses ONLY uses AACS.

Blu-ray uses AACS, but also can use BD+... which may be considerably more difficult to crack.

My point is, HD-DVD may always be cracked... Blu-ray has another line of DRM waiting in the wings... and from what I've read... BD+ isn't anything to sneeze at.

[el chupacabra]

I thought all BD+ did was break a player from playing future movies made after its 'key' was cracked.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I thought all BD+ did was break a player from playing future movies made after its 'key' was cracked.

BD+ is considerably more. Also, they have other tricks up their sleeves.

BDA Details Blu-Ray Disc Content Protection Technology - Printer Friendly version without Comments

I'm sure it will be hacked eventually, but it's scary to see how much DRM they are building in. If I were a movie company, I'd probably go with Blu-ray. As a consumer, HD-DVD seems more appealing. That being said, I still feel Blu-ray will win.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

My point is, HD-DVD may always be cracked... Blu-ray has another line of DRM waiting in the wings... and from what I've read... BD+ isn't anything to sneeze at.

Someone will crack it.
Anyway, I like DRM. I don't want all the major motion pictures studios I own losing money. We need to make money to make movies. Theater releases barely cover the cost of making a movie these days. The money is made on disc sales and TV licensing. If we can't make movies how are we going to keep making hot chicks famous for the world to look up to?

[Kerrigan]

HDDVD fans are starting to give the impression that they're also fans of piracy.

[Dakarʒ]

Or fair-use.

[Kerrigan]

How is being able to convert something to a torrent, or make duplicates of it, fair use, or even normal use? I don't know anyone who has ever done these things.

[Dakarʒ]

I didn't say it was. But ripping it to your HD so you can watch it on your iPod or Apple TV would be.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I didn't say it was. But ripping it to your HD so you can watch it on your iPod or Apple TV would be.

Only if the sleeve says you can make one fair use copy. It never said that on anything except audio cassettes and CDs. According to UK laws you still aren't allowed to copy an audio CD into iTunes let alone copy a DVD. Good thing the cops turn a blind eye to mp3 burning unless you are a rampant file sharer otherwise Jonathan Ives would be a jail bitch.

[Dakarʒ]

Wonderful.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Someone will crack it.
Anyway, I like DRM. I don't want all the major motion pictures studios I own losing money. We need to make money to make movies. Theater releases barely cover the cost of making a movie these days. The money is made on disc sales and TV licensing. If we can't make movies how are we going to keep making hot chicks famous for the world to look up to?

Only Sony fanboys could make less consumer rights a good thing(TM).

[TETENAL]

Making duplicates of some copyrighted material is fair use when you (and persons in your household) are the only people using it. There are many good reasons for making duplicates. You copy your audio CDs onto your hard drive to use them in iTunes without pulling CDs out of the shelf all the time for each song for example. You put copies on your portable mp3 player. You may want to copy movies to your AppleTV's hard drive or to your iPhone. Etc. pp.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Only Sony fanboys could make less consumer rights a good thing(TM).

WTF is a consumer's rights? You buy the thing and watch it. Wanna rip. Get a crack. People like you don't think about the production company and film studio's rights to earn money so they can keep entertaining you. Do you also think all software and games should be serial number free?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

WTF is a consumer's rights? You buy the thing and watch it. Wanna rip. Get a crack.

I think the point is that consumers shouldn't have to contravene the law in attempt to fulfill fair use.

[Dakarʒ]

dp.

[ort888]

Paramount to Offer Movies in HD DVD - Forbes.com

Paramount and Dreamworks go HD DVD exclusive.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Paramount to Offer Movies in HD DVD - Forbes.com

Paramount and Dreamworks go HD DVD exclusive.

Burn.

So much for the talk of HD-DVD losing exclusive players.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Do you also think all software and games should be serial number free?

There is a difference you're not picking up on here. Movies are bound to hardware. In order to play a Bluray multiple places (in keeping with the DRM), I'd have to buy a Bluray player on each piece of equipment I want to play the movie. It's not really a way to keep the movie studios making money, rather it seems to be a way for the player manufacturers to push more drives. If a movie becomes unbound from the physical media, I can play it anywhere I want, including an AppleTV, an XBox, or another computer.

I don't really have a huge problem with DRM either, as long as the DRM:
1) Does not bind the media to a physical disc
2) Is open enough so that it can be implemented by other vendors.

Steam to me is the best example of DRM. I can log onto any computer with my account information, and Steam remembers which games I've purchased, and allows me to redownload them at any time. As long as I am legally using my rights as a consumer, Steam's DRM and account management is more of an empowerment rather than a hinderance.