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Casper Crane · Nov 4, 2003, 12:07 AM

OK, I know this has been discussed, but I think it is the biggest tech story for the brink of 2004.

Tivo -
$200 + $300 + $100 =$ 600
[Device] + [Service] + [HMO]

Formac Studio TVR - $300

EyeTV - $200

Sony Playstation PSX - $700

-------

I'm probably going to give in and get a TiVo.

My main hesitation is the monthly charge. I hate that $#@&! And the lack of burning ability.

The only other option right now is to turn the iMac into a PVR, but it seems like more work than it's worth. I spend too much time on the computer as it is.

CC

Weezer · Nov 4, 2003, 01:20 AM

I love my eyetv. Granted Im a college student, so it's even more perfect for me, but overall its a very solid product. Full screen high quality mode looks perfect when you watch from a few feet away. The only issue is that it takes 1-2 seconds to change channels, so surfing isnt as easy, but it's not really a big deal. I got the ATI remote wonder to go along with it, and it works as the perfect TV solution for me.

GORDYmac · Nov 4, 2003, 07:19 AM

EyeTV, no fuss, no muss...

-Q- · Nov 4, 2003, 10:15 AM

TiVo - it just works. Pop a wireless adaptor on the back and it's now on your network. Can't rip TV shows, but at some point someone will figure it out.

SSharon · Nov 4, 2003, 02:48 PM

Another eyeTV user in college here, works great.

Weezer: what ATI thing are you talking about it seems I may need to buy my mac another present.

joe · Nov 4, 2003, 03:31 PM

Formac Studio TVR! It gives you the flexibility of the EyeTV but with the higher resiolution and video quality of the TiVO and PSX (720*480). I used the older Formac Studio dv/tv on CATV and DSS and both the capture and live display quality were excllent! The new TVR is suppose to be even better (improved hardware codec). Plus you get full compatiblity with iMovie, iDVD, or any other DV software since it uses DV spec. You can even capture directly in iMovie if you want.

FWIW - I sold my Formac Studio to get a Televio PCI card. If you have a tower this option is also worth considering. The video quality falls somewhere between the Formac Studio and the EyeTV. And it doesn't have as many i/o options or hardware compression. But it costs a lot less: $150 for the version with the wireless IR remote and reciever (Televio) and around $100 (IIRC) for the version without the IR setup (Alchemy). Of course there is an on-screen software remote. And the Televio IR software works with other programs besides the TV tuner.

OK - one last option you might want to look at is the ReplayTV. A friend of mine has one and there are Mac utilities to grab and convert the video stored on the hard drive. I don't know enough about it except that I've seen some of captures he has and they were very high quality - some were as good as the Studio - some not as good. A lot depends on your CATV reception. My best captures were off a DSS dish via S-video - as long as it wasn't raining

Good luck whichever you decide........joe

Weezer · Nov 4, 2003, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by SSharon:
Another eyeTV user in college here, works great.

Weezer: what ATI thing are you talking about it seems I may need to buy my mac another present.

http://www.ati.com/products/remotewonder/index.html

you can get them OEM off ebay for like $30

SSharon · Nov 4, 2003, 06:02 PM

thanks for the link it looks nice. just to make sure since I don't like those drivers that "work with 10 and up" but don't work with panther, it does work properly in panther with eyetv and other apps as advertised, right? Also it uses an exteenal usb rf receiver like my logitech one right so they won't interfere with each other (wish I could get them to work with each other and double my range). thanks again for the link.

Kenneth · Nov 4, 2003, 07:41 PM

I guess you forgot Televio..

JHromadka · Nov 4, 2003, 11:19 PM

What, no ReplayTV?

Casper Crane · Nov 4, 2003, 11:22 PM

well, i kinda forgot because it's only an option to tower owners. and i'm not one... though i would like to be someday.

if i did have a tower, i think the Televio would be the way to go, with no extra boxes and a great price.

CC

Casper Crane · Nov 6, 2003, 12:07 AM

ok, i just learned of another option, also Mac-free, so forgive me for posting it here. I just trust your opinions more than other oPinion sites.

The Pioneer Dvr-810h is a TiVo and DVR.

TiVo w/ DVR

This is cool because I'd like to copy our rare VHS collection to DVD to preserve the originals.

Anyone have this?

Also, it comes with TiVo Basic. That doesn't include the season pass and only 3 day guide. Is that a major drawback? Has anyone tried this Basic service?

CC

Eug · Nov 6, 2003, 01:15 PM

None of the above.

Panasonic E series DVD-recorder with built in hard drive.

No monthly fees.

Casper Crane · Nov 6, 2003, 03:02 PM

sounds great.

but how does the scheduling work? is it easy to schedule something to be recorded every wednesday at 8?

I don't expect season pass to be available for non-TiVo devices, but i don't want difficulty either.

CC

Rychiar · Nov 6, 2003, 03:49 PM

i have eye tv and love it for th emost part tho it acts screwy sumtimes. i wish it was internal. ANyone try the new Alchemy tv internal mpeg 4 tuner? Thats what i really want and its half the price of eye tv

wallinbl · Nov 6, 2003, 09:22 PM

Tivo is fantastic. Monthly fees - whatever. I pay $4.99/month for it. So what? You're paying $30-70/month for cable/satellite already, it's not much more.

The Tivo is absolutely trouble free. It works like you would want it to. I have a hard time watching TV at houses without Tivo now.

Don't get some junk solution that works from your computer. There is absolutely no way it will be as simple and elegant as Tivo. Besides, is your computer your main TV?

SSharon · Nov 6, 2003, 10:02 PM

I agree with wallinbl tivo is great and I have it at home, but lots of us are at school and carrying an extra tv from Chicago to Maryland is a pain. This way I get lots of the tivo features but save space in my small room.

joe · Nov 7, 2003, 09:17 AM

Eug: I've been following the Panasonic PVR recorders the last 2 years. They're definitely my favorite as a VCR replacement. Even their non-hard drive models support the TiVO-like features (time shifting playback) provided you're using DVD-RAM media instead of DVD-R (both are supported). Prices are still too high for what you're getting though. And Panasonic should get it to work better with other tuners like DSS - this is normally done with Infra-red. At least that is how my DSS/VCR setup worked...........joe

IGrokSpock · Nov 7, 2003, 12:06 PM

If you live in NYC, forget paying all the crazy prices for these things. You can get the Time Warner Cable box that has DVR built in for $6 a MONTH. Thats all. And it....is..... AWESOME. Not as much storage space and not all the bells and whistles of TiVO, but who needs em, when its this affordable.....

Sure, I have no idea if you can plug it into your mac or how to do it, but do you want to pay all that cash for this??

Casper Crane · Nov 8, 2003, 06:32 PM

wallinbl:

how are you only paying $4.99/month? the only Tivo price I see is $12.95.

If this is the basic service cost, can you say whether you sometimes/often/never wish you had the features of the Plus package?

CC

Originally posted by wallinbl:
Tivo is fantastic. Monthly fees - whatever. I pay $4.99/month for it. So what? You're paying $30-70/month for cable/satellite already, it's not much more.

wallinbl · Nov 9, 2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Casper Crane:
wallinbl:

how are you only paying $4.99/month? the only Tivo price I see is $12.95.

CC

I get it through DirecTV. There are DirecTV receivers with Tivo built in. If you opt to have the Tivo service billed on your DirecTV bill, then they only charge you $4.95.

JB72 · Nov 9, 2003, 08:14 PM

Well, if you have a PowerMac, Televio is an option. It's better quality than the EyeTV, and a lot less expensive than the Formac TVR. Plus it's got FM. I'm thinking of giving it a go.

I currently use an EyeTV and it's none too shabby, but I want to capture at a better resolution than USB allows. I'll eBay it pretty soon.

Mohammed Atef · Nov 10, 2003, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by joe:
OK - one last option you might want to look at is the ReplayTV. A friend of mine has one and there are Mac utilities to grab and convert the video stored on the hard drive. I don't know enough about it except that I've seen some of captures he has and they were very high quality - some were as good as the Studio - some not as good. A lot depends on your CATV reception. My best captures were off a DSS dish via S-video - as long as it wasn't raining Good luck whichever you decide........joe

this is what I have, a 5040 model. the program is a java app called DVArchive. If your replaytv is connected to a router, dvarchive sniffs it out. you can suck programming off your replay in its standard mpeg format for burning to disc as a dvd or vcd, or just storage to hard drive. I don't pirate the shows or share them with anyone--it's simply very useful to save the episodes of certain shows that I really enjoy. otherwise I don't waste my time.

but I'm happy with my replaytv.

WJMoore · Nov 10, 2003, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by JB72:
I'll eBay it pretty soon.

Cool, be sure to make it available to Australia so I can bid on it.

LeeG · Nov 11, 2003, 11:46 PM

Though other solutions will work, and may be cheaper, I have found TiVo to be TV nirvana. I avoided the monthly fee by paying the lifetime money - granted its an expensive toy, but I paid up front since I didn't want another monthly bill. I couldn't be happier.

Worth every penny, the day it breaks I buy a new one - TiVo rocks.

Lee

C.J. Moof · Nov 12, 2003, 12:10 PM

I think the big question is "where do you want to watch TV?" If the answer is "in front of the big screen on the couch", get Tivo. If it's "at my desk" or "anywhere I go", get one of the computer based recorders.

I had to wait around a hospital waiting room for 3 hours yesterday. Since I have EyeTV on my home Cube, I copied some shows to my laptop, put on headphones, and caught up on some entertainment.

That's pretty hard to do with Tivo.

EyeTV is also great for archiving. The integration for DVD and VCD burning is very easy.

coitus · Nov 14, 2003, 01:37 AM

DO NOT BUY FORMAC!

I have the new Studio TVR, which I bought in a bundle with the newest Devideon. It has been a nightmare. My Devideon was dead out of the box...it took over two-months to get a replacement sent out. Originally, I sent it in only to have them "repair" it with a hardware bridge from an older model...which made it somewhat of a Frankenstein Devideon.

Following that episode, I have spent several hours trying but have still not been able to get anything recorded. Tonight I recorded an 1.5 hour of gibberish. Lovely!!!

Oh, the Formac Tech support...it sucks more than Monica Lewinski.

My two-cents,

coitus

Volanges · Nov 14, 2003, 04:28 AM

Mine works fine -- what could be wrong with what is essentially a Pioneer A05 ?

RETURN YOURS if it is defective -- why get a "hardware bridge"???

Senseless

doof · Nov 14, 2003, 07:54 AM

Does Formac Studio work with PAL?

The Formac web site mentions NSTC but I can find no reference to PAL compatability.

Does anyone have any experience with Formac Studio TVR in Europe or Australia (the PAL badlands)?

Eug · Nov 14, 2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by joe:
Eug: I've been following the Panasonic PVR recorders the last 2 years. They're definitely my favorite as a VCR replacement. Even their non-hard drive models support the TiVO-like features (time shifting playback) provided you're using DVD-RAM media instead of DVD-R (both are supported). Prices are still too high for what you're getting though. And Panasonic should get it to work better with other tuners like DSS - this is normally done with Infra-red. At least that is how my DSS/VCR setup worked...........joe

I love the fact that I can start recording and play back on the same time, even though I do NOT have a hard drive in mine. DVD-RAM recording suits me fine for time-shifting. I use DVD-R when I want to copy say a home video on VHS and give it to a friend or whatever.

The machine does not control my cable box, so it's a hassle in that I have to program both the cable box and the Panasonic recorder to watch a show, but I don't record all that many shows so it's not a big deal for me.

I don't think the Panasonic recorders are priced too high at all considering what you get, but YMMV.

Volanges · Nov 14, 2003, 05:36 PM

I've never understood why the Formac website only lists NTSC when you can clearly change the setting to PAL in preferences.

doof · Nov 15, 2003, 04:29 AM

so does that mean Formac Studio TVR works with PAL?

Does anyone have personal experience using Formac & PAL?

Volanges · Nov 15, 2003, 03:29 PM

Somone on another forum was asking the same question re: Formac NTSC vs PAL

One person replied that Formac uses the same software for all units, but that the US model only does NTSC and the European ones are PAL.

I'm not sure I agree -- only because I know in the older models that it clearly stated in the user manual that you could switch between NTSC and PAL.

You really should get a definitive answer from Formac. And if they say it only works for NTSC tell them that a friend of yours says it allows it to change the setting in Preferences and see how they reply.

joe · Nov 15, 2003, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
The machine does not control my cable box, so it's a hassle in that I have to program both the cable box and the Panasonic recorder to watch a show, but I don't record all that many shows so it's not a big deal for me.

I'm a huge fan of the Pansonic PVRs and plan to get one eventually. But not being able to work more easily with cable and sattlelite boxes is going to be a downside for most people. Especially since the primary use of a VCR or PVR is to record shows when you're not around to watch them. Panasonic really needs to address this issue. It's usually done by having the PVR control the DSS or Digital cable box through the same IR port the remote uses. Since the devices are usually stacked, they bounce the IR signal off the opposite wall. I sold my DSS last year but the IR feature was how I was able to schedule recordings between my DSS and VCR.

I don't think the Panasonic recorders are priced too high at all considering what you get, but YMMV.

Compared to the other DVD based PVRs I agree. Especially since the competition can't do time-slip. The Pansonics are also less expensive across the entire line. If they could schedule recordings with cable/DSS boxes I'd buy right now. I was considering either the E50 or E60. I recently bought a digital camera so I was leaning towards the E60. Which one did you buy? How long have you had it - any comments on the features/usability?..........joe

lavar78 · Nov 15, 2003, 09:45 PM

TiVo -- and it's not even close (especially if you have DirecTV). I can't say anything bad about TiVo; it works like a dream.

Eug · Nov 15, 2003, 11:03 PM

I was considering either the E50 or E60.

I got the E30 quite some time ago. I would have gotten one with a hard drive but at the time they didn't exist (unless I went for a $$$$ mail order HS2).

Salsa · Nov 16, 2003, 05:25 PM

I have a Tivo buit-in my DirecTV receiver connected to my t.v.'s. It works for me. Seamless integration, top quality resolution, and convenient management with the season pass, to do list, "now playing" list, etc. The combination of Tivo with DirecTV is great.

Chopper · Nov 20, 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Salsa:
I have a Tivo buit-in my DirecTV receiver connected to my t.v.'s. It works for me. Seamless integration, top quality resolution, and convenient management with the season pass, to do list, "now playing" list, etc. The combination of Tivo with DirecTV is great.

I sooooo wish I could get the DirecTV / Tivo combo, but DirecTV doesn't carry the Philly version of Comcast SportsNet & I couldn't imagine getting a cable system that doesn't carry local sports.

Salsa · Nov 21, 2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Chopper:
I sooooo wish I could get the DirecTV / Tivo combo, but DirecTV doesn't carry the Philly version of Comcast SportsNet & I couldn't imagine getting a cable system that doesn't carry local sports.

That's a bummer. DirecTV does carry the Sunshine sports network and the Florida Fox sports network. Those are the ones that I need. I thought they had all the sports channels.

drphil · Nov 22, 2003, 12:41 AM

I purchased the Formac TVR with my first Apple...a new 12" Powerbook. I tried for over a week to get it to create a clear signal, but it appeared to have a faulty tuner. I wasted another 2 weeks emailing back and forth with their customer "disservice" department who kept having me try things which I already tried. They finally agreed to send an rma so I could send it to them. That was a month ago. They have yet to either send me a new one or repair and send the old one. For the money, that is outrageous!!! I sent them an email over a week ago giving them until 11/20/03 to respond to me or I would be posting any review site I could find to indicated my encouragement for people to avoid their product. They have yet to respond to me. Thus, after over 2 months and $300, I have nothing to show for it. It is hard to believe that there is not a viable tvr device for apple products. I have been recording on pc computers for 5 years with tv tuner video cards

Drakino · Nov 23, 2003, 02:51 PM

Find yourself a ReplayTV 4500 or 5000. It has networking in a functional state now, with no hacking. The network gives you:

1. Guide updates via broadband
2. Show sharing across a LAN to other ReplayTV units, or a Mac running DVArchive. This includes downloading of shows.
3. Internet show sharing. Oops, forget to record something? Head to planetreplay.com and ask someone to send it to you.

The ReplayTV units also are much faster interface wise, and offer the same recording options a TiVo does, ie record once, record every time, record new episodes only every time, etc... It does not have a raiting system where it will try to record shows it thinks you like, but it does have ReplayTV zones where you can set up "Record Classic SciFi, keep 3 hours worth".

The newer 5500 units are identical to the 5000 units, except they do not allow number 3 on the list above.

I have already burned a DVD full of episodes from a show I want to archive thanks to DVArchive. All without having to worry if the next patch is going to kill this functionality, or having to open the box to add a network card.

Casper Crane · Nov 23, 2003, 10:20 PM

Thanks to all who have responded. I am leaning toward TiVo now, but I just read an article in Wired Magazine about where TiVo is headed, and I don't like it. Basically, they plan to weather the coming years of heavy competition by data mining and selling their users out to marketing firms.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.10/tv.html?pg=5

ReplayTV looks like a good deal, since it has no monthly fee.

But I want a DVD recorder built in too, so I can start archiving our VHS collection.

The Ayatollah · Nov 23, 2003, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Casper Crane:
ReplayTV looks like a good deal, since it has no monthly fee.

YES IT DOES! US$9.95/mo., unless you pay hundreds more for the 'lifetime' subscription.

Rychiar · Nov 24, 2003, 10:50 AM

anyone buy ALchemy TV yet? it loox to be the best, internal and mpeg4 encoding

-Q- · Nov 24, 2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Rychiar:
anyone buy ALchemy TV yet? it loox to be the best, internal and mpeg4 encoding

I'm tempted by it, but they don't have one that works with a G5 yet.

-Q- · Dec 10, 2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by -Q-:
I'm tempted by it, but they don't have one that works with a G5 yet.

And now they do! I just got an e-mail saying the Televio/AlchemyTV product will ship for the G5 on 12/15!

pobodysnerfect · Dec 14, 2003, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by The Ayatollah:
YES IT DOES! US$9.95/mo., unless you pay hundreds more for the 'lifetime' subscription.

The newer models do not have a monthly fee, the "lifetime subscription" is included in the price of the machine, and BTW I LOVE my replay tv. It has all the functions everyone has already been talking about, and if you can get your hands on a 5060 or 5080 which I have and does have a monthly 9.95 fee, but also has commercial advance which absolutly rocks!! No more commercials without pushing a button!

BWSchultz · Jan 6, 2004, 07:06 PM

That AlchemyTV card for the G5 sounds almost too good to be true! Has anyone bought it yet? I'm tempted to just buy it and be the first but I'd like to know for sure if it works before I drop a c-note on it. I have G5 single 1.8 with a nice 19 inch LCD and watching/recording TV on that would be a blessing. Any more info??

tr · Jan 6, 2004, 08:20 PM

EyeTV 200

looks pretty sweet, just like the regular EyeTV, except it's firewire, and does hardware mpeg-2 encoding. this beats out my ADS InstantDVD for Mac (which is an excellent product, and which i'm very happy with) as it offers PVR type functions.

tr

-Q- · Jan 6, 2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by BWSchultz:
That AlchemyTV card for the G5 sounds almost too good to be true! Has anyone bought it yet? I'm tempted to just buy it and be the first but I'd like to know for sure if it works before I drop a c-note on it. I have G5 single 1.8 with a nice 19 inch LCD and watching/recording TV on that would be a blessing. Any more info??

I got one right after x-mas. Overall, the quality is great for the video portion. I haven't gotten too far into the scheduled recordings but it doesn't seem to do recording like the TiVo or ReplayTV, but more like a VCR. But it integrates nicely into QuickTime so you have a number of compression options. I'll post a more detailed review shortly once I play with the software more.