[I WAS the One]

I was surfing eBay and noticed that every PowerBook still got a really good value on the market! almost as equal as the new USED MacPros! Why is that? isn't suposed to be discontinued already those machines? what people know that I don't know about this machines??

[JKT]

They run Photoshop, etc. at full speed and they also run all Mac software (including Classic stuff) which the Intel Macs can't. The price people can get for them will depend on the buyer's needs.

[runninkyle17]

They only run Photoshop at full speed b/c that software has not had an update since the Intel switch. Trust me C2D's are faster. I have nothing against PPC's, but the Intel chips are faster and are more efficient too. Software just takes a little while to catch up with a major hardware change.

Personally I would only buy a PPC if I could find one at an incredibly discounted price.

[romeosc]

Originally Posted by runninkyle17 

They only run Photoshop at full speed b/c that software has not had an update since the Intel switch. Trust me C2D's are faster. I have nothing against PPC's, but the Intel chips are faster and are more efficient too. Software just takes a little while to catch up with a major hardware change.

Personally I would only buy a PPC if I could find one at an incredibly discounted price.

..... Also if you have a huge investment in Software and have no desire to ever run Windows.

[bloodline]

You probably couldn't pay me to get a PPC Mac now... It would be a pretty paper weight...

[mdc]

It might become a paper weight in a few years, but definitely not now. You have to remember that there are people who are running OS X on 500mhz computers. A PowerBook or iBook is still going to lat someone a good few years.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One 

I was surfing eBay and noticed that every PowerBook still got a really good value on the market! almost as equal as the new USED MacPros! Why is that? isn't suposed to be discontinued already those machines? what people know that I don't know about this machines??

I just sold a PowerBook on ebay, and you have to do more than just surf through to get an accurate picture. Even then, prices vary considerably. Because fraud is so high with computers on ebay, you have to look at fully completed auctions - fully completed through to feedback, if you want to be sure.

Several months ago, the prices were definitely to the seller's favor. Now, while prices do vary, I think the majority are buyer bargains. I know mine was.

[Leonard]

Yeah I wouldn't look at eBay to find the price of anything. Prices on eBay can be over-inflated or under-priced. Your better to looks at other market places like craig's list or forum markets. More reliable.

[mduell]

1.67Ghz PowerBooks are going for a grand (and sometimes $700)... you're not going to get a used MBP (similar specs/condition) for that price.

[SierraDragon]

The latest G4 PBs are very nice boxes, laptop-adequate for most apps. Currently only those of us on apps like Aperture, PSCS3 or Windoze really need the modern power of MBPs.

-Allen Wicks

[romeosc]

Originally Posted by mduell 

1.67Ghz PowerBooks are going for a grand (and sometimes $700)... you're not going to get a used MBP (similar specs/condition) for that price.

Most likely the refurbs, Apple and others are offering are the original MBPs which were returned for problems. I'd wait until the refurb core 2 duos are available!

[I WAS the One]

what about a PB 12" 867Mhz max out for $500.00?? Right now that's the one I'm looking at. good deal or bad deal?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One 

what about a PB 12" 867Mhz max out for $500.00?? Right now that's the one I'm looking at. good deal or bad deal?

I find that a bit steep if twice as much gets you a brand new C2D MB. Keep an eye on the refurbs.

[bloodline]

Originally Posted by mdc 

It might become a paper weight in a few years, but definitely not now. You have to remember that there are people who are running OS X on 500mhz computers. A PowerBook or iBook is still going to lat someone a good few years.

I still have my 1.5Ghz G4... it struggles to handle even basic daily tasks. I have pretty much given it to my Girl Friend so she can surf the internet and check her Emails, I certainly couldn't do any serious work on it any more... all my comptitors would be well ahead of me with their MB and MBP's.

[nJm]

Just today I've received my MBP 2.16 to replace my fantastic, yet slow iBook 1ghz. The iBook lasted me well for 3 years and had 1.25gb of ram (my new MBP only has 1gb) but the performance difference is really incredible. I knew the big things would obviously be much faster (I'm sitting here watching 1080i HD digital tv on its screen while working on an external LCD, my ibook struggled with SD at times), but its other things like Safari opens in one bounce, its almost instant! It also renders websites much faster. The only stuff I've found to be not that different is Photoshop CS2 and Office, which is to be expected.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by bloodline 

I still have my 1.5Ghz G4... it struggles to handle even basic daily tasks...

Uhm... I'm curious, what are these basic daily tasks it is so struggling at??? Rendering 120 minutes CGI movies in high definition???

PB.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by bloodline 

I still have my 1.5Ghz G4... it struggles to handle even basic daily tasks...

That PB (one of my laptops is a similar 1.67 GHz G4) can run even Photoshop & Aperture somewhat adequately. "Basic daily tasks" should be generally fast. There is something wrong with your setup: full hard drive, cluttered apps, inadequate or failed RAM, corrupted OS, whatever.

-Allen Wicks

[peeb]

Yes, my pb 15 1.67 is plenty fast enough for everyday office tasks, occasional video editing, photos etc.

[frisby]

I personally have an issue buying any computer used, especially on ebay.

Maybe if you just wanted something that would run an older PPC OS, or if you wanted it for spare parts.

[rdf8585]

Originally Posted by bloodline 

You probably couldn't pay me to get a PPC Mac now... It would be a pretty paper weight...

Amazing that a computer I bought 14 months ago (12/05) could be considered so utterly useless by some. I have a 1.33 g4 mini, 5400 rpm, 40 gb hd, 1 gb ram, 32 mb radeon 9200.

[Theodour]

My 12" 867 is still a "fast" machine ... mostly.

It struggles more with (flash) web pages than it does with video editing and graphics.

I guess you need wastefully fast processors just to handle the excesses of lazy programming.

[rdf8585]

I hate flash on the mac. I don't mind it on my PC (3 ghz P4 w/ hyper threading) but it can be pretty awful on my Mini.

espn.com
fox.com

Those are two big examples.

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by Theodour 

My 12" 867 is still a "fast" machine ... mostly.

It struggles more with (flash) web pages than it does with video editing and graphics.

I guess you need wastefully fast processors just to handle the excesses of lazy programming.

Well, I bought it. I'm waiting now for a 12" 867mhz Powerbook G4. I hope it works great for a while (I mean 2 years top) I was using a Pismo and I sold it thru eBay for more or less the same amount, so basically I just exchange the Pismo for a 867Mhz.. I hope it felt way better than the Pismo. It was super SLOW with it the last days... (using tiger) so, let see what the 867mhz will offer.

[rdf8585]

Maybe I'm missing something, but that only has 256 MB RAM? Unless it can't take more, put more in. I wouldn't run Tiger on less than 512-768.

[danviento]

I was one of the poor souls who needed a new laptop just before the intel switch. My 17" Powerbook is maxed out at 2 GB of SDRAMM, and the whole 100 GB (about 93.04 real GB) drive. Sadly, I've barely got enough space (virtual memory) for doing large scale photoshop boards. And don't even think of running something like that and Virtual PC (yes you can run windows on the PPC platform, just a slower emulation).

However, when it comes to high end work like large Logic files or rendering detailed 3D designs in Modo, the 1.67 Ghz PPC begs for more power. I'd take the slower Photoshop capbility if i could do everything else faster. I think it depends on what you plan on doing with your laptop.

I wonder if it would be possible to replace the processor and firmware of a PPC with an Intel. Of course, the design for heating and connection might be different, and case design as well, but it would be a great improvement over having to buy a whole new machine.

For my needs, I'll probably be looking at a Mac Pro.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by rdf8585 

Amazing that a computer I bought 14 months ago (12/05) could be considered so utterly useless by some. I have a 1.33 g4 mini, 5400 rpm, 40 gb hd, 1 gb ram, 32 mb radeon 9200.

It depends very much on what you do. If it's surfing and e-mail you'll be fine.

But considering you bought the entry-level budget Mac 14 months ago (at a time when that model was already 4 months old) you can't be that surprised if some people consider it useless for demanding tasks today.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One 

Well, I bought it. I'm waiting now for a 12" 867mhz Powerbook G4. I hope it works great for a while (I mean 2 years top) I was using a Pismo and I sold it thru eBay for more or less the same amount, so basically I just exchange the Pismo for a 867Mhz.. I hope it felt way better than the Pismo.

It should feel better than the Pismo, but it won't last long if you plan on doing more than surfing and e-mail.

You should buy more RAM though. If it somes with 256 MB that means there's a 128 MB DIMM inserted in the single slot (128 MB are soldered to the board). Rip it out and put a 512 MB stick in there. This page claims 640 MB is the max, but maybe you could even put a 1GB stick in there. You'd have to check that though.

[Cliff_O]

Originally Posted by JKT 

They run Photoshop, etc. at full speed

Originally Posted by runninkyle17 

They only run Photoshop at full speed b/c that software has not had an update since the Intel switch.

Originally Posted by danviento 

I'd take the slower Photoshop capbility if i could do everything else faster. I think it depends on what you plan on doing with your laptop.

I processed a batch of raw files on the MBP for the first time last weekend and performance was improved over the 1.25Ghz G4 PB that I have. I ran a batch of 12mpx compressed NEFs through Capture (Nikon image editor compiled for G4) for conversion to jpeg, then as another batch through CS2 for further post processing. Performance of the MBP for this activity was more than acceptable. The CS3 beta has also been very stable so far, and is a universal binary.

The only time I've noticed the MBP working hard while running Photoshop was when I was running a free transform on a raster image in CS3, and the fans spun up to 6k RPM until I committed the changes. I had to do it a couple of times before I got the effect I wanted and the behavior repeated itself.

The performance of Windows within Parallels is sparkling. There is no comparison to Virtual PC. Virtual PC is virtually unusable. Parallels rocks.

[rdf8585]

Originally Posted by Simon 

It depends very much on what you do. If it's surfing and e-mail you'll be fine.

But considering you bought the entry-level budget Mac 14 months ago (at a time when that model was already 4 months old) you can't be that surprised if some people consider it useless for demanding tasks today.

I don't think my Mini model was 4 months old. They began stealth upgrades to the Mini's in October 05, only 6 weeks to 2 months prior to when I bought mine. The processor bumped from 1.25 to 1.33 and the HD speed from 4200 to 5400. The other model had the HD jump, also went from 1.42 - 1.50 and the video card on that model only had its vram go from 32 mb to 64 but still on the same radeon 9200 card.

I feel bad for people who bought G4 ibooks last spring right before they went out.... those people probably dropped 1000+ on machines reduced to rubble by some less than a year later. A grand or more should get you more than an "entry level" system... those ibook g4's were almost indentical to my Mini, except they had a radeon 9550 compared to a 9200 in my mini but my mini had a faster hd rpm (5400 to 4200)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by danviento 

I wonder if it would be possible to replace the processor and firmware of a PPC with an Intel. Of course, the design for heating and connection might be different, and case design as well, but it would be a great improvement over having to buy a whole new machine.

No, no chance, no way, not ever.

[DavoMrMac]

Originally Posted by rdf8585 

I feel bad for people who bought G4 ibooks last spring right before they went out.... those people probably dropped 1000+ on machines reduced to rubble by some less than a year later.

I hardly think that these machines could be compared to rubble. The G4 iBooks happily run the latest version of OS X. If you compare that to a year old PC laptop running Vista, then you are looking at a big problem. Older Macs (as we all know) handle the newer OS very well, and although they may struggle at CPU intensive tasks, most people do email, internet, a bit of Word, or something along those lines... for these sort of tasks it is not necessary to have the latest machine.

Even today, if the right price came up, I would buy a late G4 iBook or PowerBook.

[bloodline]

Originally Posted by DavoMrMac 

I hardly think that these machines could be compared to rubble. The G4 iBooks happily run the latest version of OS X. If you compare that to a year old PC laptop running Vista, then you are looking at a big problem. Older Macs (as we all know) handle the newer OS very well, and although they may struggle at CPU intensive tasks, most people do email, internet, a bit of Word, or something along those lines... for these sort of tasks it is not necessary to have the latest machine.

Even today, if the right price came up, I would buy a late G4 iBook or PowerBook.

I have a 3 yeard old 3.06GHz Pentium 4 laptop... that while being ugly as hell, noisy as a jet fighter, with a nasty washed out screen and a battery that won't hodl a charge... outperforms, my 1.5Ghz G4 Power Book... and the Powerbook has more hard drive space and twice as much RAM...

The PPC G4 has been underperforming for years. Even the first gen 1.8Ghz MBP made the top of the line PowerBooks look like museum pieces.

[tinkered]

C2D>G4 in almost everyway.
Still, just because my car is few years old doesn't mean I should just toss it. Plus, many people care more about legacy compatibility then performance. In the sciences, I know a lot of research who have a tool and a related OS9 program that they have relied on for a decade and hope to do so for another decade.

[I WAS the One]

I'm using it right now. It feels very snappy and ultra fast comparing it to the Pismo I used before. I don't want it for heavy tasks, I got a PowerMac in my home for all of those hard proyects, I was in the need of a cheaper and faster Powerbook for net, text, and Photoshop elements for a couple of small editings every now and then... don't know if I will install Garage Band and iDVD, but maybe iPhoto, iWeb and iMovie will be installed on it. nothing more. what do you think?

[Theodour]

Congrats. You can do more with it than you'd think from this forum.
My 867 is still a sweet machine -- and I do have a BlackBook to compare it to.

It has Tiger, 640 MB ram, and a recently installed 80 Gig drive.

FCP 3 is a dream on it, so is Live 4 ... Did a recent job requiring Flash MX, Photoshop 7, illustrator 10 and some smaller apps simultaneously, and it remained snappy--as in, paging was not so bad (not as fast as a G5 tower, but I can't take that with me). The only thing I did differently for that was use a 19" external monitor, which was available where I was working.

This machine probably won't do any more jobs like that ever again, since there is now a BlackBook in the picture, but I miss that 876's size ...

If you can afford it, put maximum RAM in there.

[crazeazn]

im typin on my 3 year old powerbook g4 12" 1 ghz (1.25 gigs ram), its more than fine for normal use, only when i throw 3rd party apps does it seem to be slow. like adium for example.... i guess i should use safari too...

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by Theodour 

Congrats. You can do more with it than you'd think from this forum.
My 867 is still a sweet machine -- and I do have a BlackBook to compare it to.If you can afford it, put maximum RAM in there.

Thanx for your words! I feel I really get a good machine after all, today I was working with it at my daytime job (radio station) and I was using a new application for my tasks (SOHO notes) and let me tell you I was using only Mail and SOHO notes and it was a great day, it felt fast and snappy, tomorrow I will edit some files on Photoshop Elements so, I hope everything goes well with that amount of RAM.

Can I upgrade the RAM myself or I need to leave it at Apple?

is there an online place that you can send it to that task?

I will like to max out the ram... any help will be good. Thanx

[Simon]

You can do it yourself.

Turn the PB off. Remove the battery. Take a #0 Phillips screwdriver to loosen the four screws that hold the memory door in place (center underside). Remove the door (use a plastic flat-blade tool). Remove the 128 MB DIMM (there are two latches - one on each side of the DIMM - to release it), insert new DIMM, close memory door. Insert battery. Reboot. Done.

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by Simon 

You can do it yourself.

Turn the PB off. Remove the battery. Take a #0 Phillips screwdriver to loosen the four screws that hold the memory door in place (center underside). Remove the door (use a plastic flat-blade tool). Remove the 128 MB DIMM (there are two latches - one on each side of the DIMM - to release it), insert new DIMM, close memory door. Insert battery. Reboot. Done.

I went to Macsales.com follow the steps to find memory for this PB and they show a 1 gig Ram for that machine. but I went to apple-history.com and it says that the PB's max RAM is 640MB. What do I do? Buy the 1 gig or not? thanx

[Patsfan1978]

I have a 1.5Ghz G4 PB with 2 gigs of RAM as my main do everything machine. I find it hard to believe some here would call this machine a paperweight or unusable. I think there a lot of snobs and such here.
Really we all know computer technology advances. Thats a given. Its all in how you look at it. This G4 runs everything I ask of it. I made a back up of a DVD the other night for the kids. So they dont destroy anymore originals. Anyway... I was ripping then burning that DVD, while running Yahoo and AOL messengers, Firefox to read this board and iTunes for background music. I got no slow downs, no problems and no lag. iMovie is very quick on here. Everything seems to chug along nicely. I think is absurd for people here to tell others that these machines, being G4's are useless except for email and web surfing (maybe) etc. There are much faster options out now, but that doesnt mean these machines arent any good anymore. Unless your trying the render the next Shrek movie I doubt many here "need" and use the power of the current C2D machines.

Rant over...

[wubrew]

[QUOTE=
Can I upgrade the RAM myself or I need to leave it at Apple? [/QUOTE]
Not only can you upgrade the ram yourself, you can also upgrade the hdd, the optical drive yourself and improve the usability of the PB vastly. There are very good direction for the tasks out there. Don't let Apple do it for super inflated and long turn around time.

[wubrew]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One 

Can I upgrade the RAM myself or I need to leave it at Apple?

is there an online place that you can send it to that task?

I will like to max out the ram... any help will be good. Thanx

Not only can you upgrade the ram yourself, you can also upgrade the hdd, the optical drive yourself and improve the usability of the PB vastly. There are very good direction for the tasks out there. Don't let Apple do it for super inflated and long turn around time.

[wubrew]

Originally Posted by wubrew 

Not only can you upgrade the ram yourself, you can also upgrade the hdd, the optical drive yourself and improve the usability of the PB vastly. There are very good direction for the tasks out there. Don't let Apple do it for super inflated and long turn around time.

Darn it wubrew, after all the posting you are still messing up!
Sorry.

[I WAS the One]

Please I wanna know if I can buy the 1 gig RAM option or it's worthless on a 12" 867mhz PB?

[tinkered]

RAM is the best way to improve performance, not matter how dated a computer is. It is worth it if the cost is equivalent to the cost of the ram at crucial.com

[Simon]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One 

Please I wanna know if I can buy the 1 gig RAM option or it's worthless on a 12" 867mhz PB?

If the RAM vendor claims it's for the 12" PB 867 MHz, probably yes. Just buy it from a place with a decent return policy and you'll be fine.

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by bloodline 

I have a 3 yeard old 3.06GHz Pentium 4 laptop... that... outperforms, my 1.5Ghz G4 Power Book... and the Powerbook has more hard drive space and twice as much RAM...

1. Your P4 laptop is running at twice the clock-speed.

2. I'd bet money your Powerbook runs Photoshop faster. Altivec does wonders for software that's properly optimized.

[bloodline]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock 

1. Your P4 laptop is running at twice []
the clock-speed.

With a very inefficient pipleine... 20+ stages deep?

2. I'd bet money your Powerbook runs Photoshop faster. Altivec does wonders for software that's properly optimized.

No, Photoshop is much faster on the P4 than the G4.

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by Simon 

If the RAM vendor claims it's for the 12" PB 867 MHz, probably yes. Just buy it from a place with a decent return policy and you'll be fine.

Thanx for answering!

[Recontech]

bloodline,

That is a matter of debate...Unless you have cold hard facts (benchmarks you can provide), its just your observation.