[malvolio]

Oh, this is rich!

Bush official linked to call-girl probe

By ANNE GEARAN, AP Diplomatic Writer 1 hour, 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON - Randall Tobias, head of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, abruptly resigned Friday after his name surfaced in an investigation into a high-priced call-girl ring, said two people in a position to know the circumstances of his departure.

It was Tobias' own decision to resign, according to one of the people, who said the issue came up only in the past day or so. The people spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way.

Tobias submitted his resignation a day after he was interviewed by ABC News for an upcoming program about an alleged prostitution service run by the so-called D.C. Madam.

ABC reported on its Web site late Friday that Tobias confirmed that he had called the Pamela Martin and Associates escort service to have women come to his condo and give him massages. More recently, Tobias told the network, he has been using a service with Central American women.

Tobias, 65, who is married, told ABC News there had been "no sex" during the women's visits to his condo. His name was on a list of clients given to ABC by Deborah Jeane Palfrey, who owns the escort service and has been charged with running a prostitution ring in the nation's capital.

"No sex." Yeah, riiiiiiight!

[Buckaroo]

Oh, yeah, Bill Clintons madam.

[malvolio]

You're full of BS as usual. Old Bill got his nooky for free.

[ebuddy]

This is most certainly why the American public voted these wolves in sheep's clothing out last election. Some may be compelled to mention Clinton... who was impeached. See the trend? People hate scandals. People hate people that involve themselves in scandals.

This Administration has unfortunately shown to be curiously full of 'em.

[stupendousman]

I think that the point is, if you are relishing scandals, you've still got a LONG way to go before this administration comes close to the last in those terms.

I think it would be better to focus on the issues, myself. That's the same thing I'd recommend about the last administration as well.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I think that the point is, if you are relishing scandals, you've still got a LONG way to go before this administration comes close to the last in those terms.

I think it would be better to focus on the issues, myself. That's the same thing I'd recommend about the last administration as well.

Sure, but what if one of the issues is Family Values?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Sure, but what if one of the issues is Family Values?

How do they vote on the issues in question?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

How do they vote on the issues in question?

I'm more interested if they practice what they preach. Does using prostitutes contribute to the "moral decay" of our society?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm more interested if they practice what they preach. Does using prostitutes contribute to the "moral decay" of our society?

I don't care. I elect someone to represent my wishes in regards to legislation, not someone who can council my on personal morals. Of course, if they can't obey the law and get in trouble, they can't do that, so getting caught using a prostitute negates their ability to achieve the goal.

In other words - I don't want them to "preach", I want them to ACT. You don't have to preach in order to achieve goals that would be positive for "family values". Bill Clinton preached that he was "sick of family values" and in fact didn't really have any. BUT, he voted with the Republicans to help overhaul the welfare institution which encourages families to do better. On "family values" that *I* care about, I"d say that earned Clinton a gold star.

I have no idea what "family values" the guy in questioned did or didn't "preach" about. Don't really care either since he resigned, which was the right thing to do.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by malvolio 

You're full of BS as usual. Old Bill got his nooky for free.

I didn't say he paid. He had to have a coordinator.

[BRussell]

My understanding is that this guy was in charge of distributing funding for HIV prevention to the developing world. One of the criticisms of the way the Bush administration has handled such funding is to make it contingent on an abstinence-only approach. So the guy in charge of telling the developing world not to have promiscuous sex is... having promiscuous sex?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I don't care. I elect someone to represent my wishes in regards to legislation, not someone who can council my on personal morals. Of course, if they can't obey the law and get in trouble, they can't do that, so getting caught using a prostitute negates their ability to achieve the goal.

In other words - I don't want them to "preach", I want them to ACT. You don't have to preach in order to achieve goals that would be positive for "family values". Bill Clinton preached that he was "sick of family values" and in fact didn't really have any. BUT, he voted with the Republicans to help overhaul the welfare institution which encourages families to do better. On "family values" that *I* care about, I"d say that earned Clinton a gold star.

I have no idea what "family values" the guy in questioned did or didn't "preach" about. Don't really care either since he resigned, which was the right thing to do.

If someone claims to be a champion of issue A, and is elected largely on that basis, then goes and flagrantly violates the principles behind issue A in their personal life, you don't think that maybe they're not the kind of person you want in charge?

[smacintush]

This individual paying for sex doesn't reflect upon Bush in the least…in my mind.

Someone allegedly outing a CIA agent is a potential administration scandal. Someone buying some pussy should not be. (IMO)

Is this guy somehow supposed to have destroyed the whole conservative ideology with his acts? Gimme a break.

And the family values thing, wasn't that a party slogan like, THIRTEEN years ago or something?

[subego]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Wisdom tells me I'm nothing, love tells me I'm everything, between the two my life flows.

Sorry to threadjack for a second here, but that quote is just too awesome not to get a

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

If someone claims to be a champion of issue A, and is elected largely on that basis, then goes and flagrantly violates the principles behind issue A in their personal life, you don't think that maybe they're not the kind of person you want in charge?

The guy in question was appointed, not elected, and didn't "champion" not paying hookers and has now resigned.

In this case, your point is moot.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

The guy in question was appointed, not elected, and didn't "champion" not paying hookers and has now resigned.

In this case, your point is moot.

and, who appointed him?

[hyteckit]

There's nothing wrong with the occasional call girl massages.

It's not really sex, it's fantasy sex. Haha...

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

and, who appointed him?

The President. It's the same position that the guy who appointed all the people in the Clinton White House had when they had to resign.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

The President.

Is it safe to say, then, that the President felt this man would represent the President's interests?

[tie]

This is the dumbest kind of "scandal." The guy made a serious mistake in his personal life, and now he's gone. Good riddance. It doesn't say much about Bush, though, Wiskedjak; I think you are stretching "the buck stops here" a bit far. There are much more important scandals coming out almost every day. For example,

Inspectors Find Rebuilt Projects Crumbling in Iraq

Quiet Bush Aide Seeks Iraq Czar, Creating a Stir

Of course, Iraq is a source of endless scandals and will be for the next dozen years if we stay the course the way Bush wants. Tenet's book is coming out tomorrow (he was awful on 60 Minutes, though; I'll pass.)

Sorry for the OT, unfunny post.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Is it safe to say, then, that the President felt this man would represent the President's interests?

I doubt that President himself knew much about him. Most of the lower level appointees are referred for jobs by people other than the President, and he just signs off. SOMEONE though he would represent his interests, and someone was apparently wrong and the guy resigned.

Unless you're going to show a pattern where there has happened more often with Bush than other Presidents', your partisan hackery is showing.

[tie]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I doubt that President himself knew much about him. Most of the lower level appointees are referred for jobs by people other than the President, and he just signs off. SOMEONE though he would represent his interests, and someone was apparently wrong and the guy resigned.

Exactly.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by subego 

Sorry to threadjack for a second here, but that quote is just too awesome not to get a

Thank you.

[Dakarʒ]

Yeah, i really don't care about the scandal, but I can understand why this chafes some on left. The hypocrisy of politicians know no bounds.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by tie 

This is the dumbest kind of "scandal." The guy made a serious mistake in his personal life, and now he's gone. Good riddance. It doesn't say much about Bush, though, Wiskedjak; I think you are stretching "the buck stops here" a bit far. There are much more important scandals coming out almost every day. For example,

Inspectors Find Rebuilt Projects Crumbling in Iraq

Quiet Bush Aide Seeks Iraq Czar, Creating a Stir

Of course, Iraq is a source of endless scandals and will be for the next dozen years if we stay the course the way Bush wants. Tenet's book is coming out tomorrow (he was awful on 60 Minutes, though; I'll pass.)

Sorry for the OT, unfunny post.

Yes, I agree. And in addition, this "massage" service is reported to have catered to many, many people in DC. If anyone thinks that list doesn't include just as many Democrats as Republicans, they're going to be in for a surprise when the full list comes out.

[tie]

Originally Posted by tie 

Quiet Bush Aide Seeks Iraq Czar, Creating a Stir

So it's happened. Apparently Bush's national security advisor really is too busy to worry about little things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/15/wa...hp&oref=slogin

I don't know how Bush does it.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

How do they vote on the issues in question?

So raging hypocrisy is irrelevant? Come on.

And I'm sorry, but the scandals with this administration are much more significant than any of the piddling nonsense they dredged up on Clinton. Don't get me wrong, he deserved impeachment and conviction, but so does Bush for abusing the public trust about matters a little more important that who was giving him head.

[OldManMac]

Here's a handy guide to help keep track of the screwups of this administration. It's even interactive.

http://slate.com/id/2165783/

[besson3c]

Is this quantity of political scandals precedented in this country?

[tie]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Here's a handy guide to help keep track of the screwups of this administration. It's even interactive.

An illustrated guide to Republican scandals. - By Holly Allen, Christopher Beam, and Torie Bosch - Slate Magazine

Unfortunately, the guide is already out of date.

Yet another corrupt Bush pick accepts a $150,000 bribe

A senior lobbyist at the National Association of Manufacturers nominated by President Bush to lead the Consumer Product Safety Commission will receive a $150,000 departing payment from the association when he takes his new government job, which involves enforcing consumer laws against members of the association.

The lobbyist, Michael E. Baroody, wrote recently to the commission’s general counsel that the severance was an “extraordinary payment” under a federal ethics rule, requiring him to remove himself from agency matters involving the association for two years. Under the rule, a payment is “extraordinary” if an employer grants it after learning that the employee is being considered for a government position and it is not part of an established compensation or benefits program.

Mr. Baroody said in the letter that the payment would not prevent him from considering matters involving individual companies that are members of the manufacturers’ association, many of whom are defendants in agency proceedings over defective products or have other business before the commission. Nor would it preclude him from involvement with smaller trade groups like those representing makers of home appliances and children’s products that have alliances with the association.

No doubt Bush stands 100% behind Baroody and all the other corrupt and/or incompetent members of his administration. On the Wolfowitz corruption scandal:

'“The fact is that he made mistakes,” Tony Snow, the White House spokesman, said of Mr. Wolfowitz as he presented this approach on Tuesday. “They are not, in our view, firing offenses.”'

[OldManMac]

Wolfowitz is leaving, as he should.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Is this quantity of political scandals precedented in this country?

Surely you know the answer is yes. A simple Google search on Clinton-era scandals does wonders. Here's a primer...

RECORDS SET

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court


STARR-RAY INVESTIGATION

- Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas (including one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners): 14
- Number of Clinton Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5
- Number of Reagan cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 4
- Number of top officials jailed in the Teapot Dome Scandal: 3

CRIME STATS

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
- Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33
- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122

SMALTZ INVESTIGATION

- Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15
- Acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6
- Fines and penalties assessed: $11.5 million
- Amount Tyson Food paid in fines and court costs: $6 million

CLINTON MACHINE CRIMES
FOR WHICH CONVICTIONS
HAVE BEEN OBTAINED

Drug trafficking (3), racketeering, extortion, bribery (4), tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement (2), fraud (12), conspiracy (5), fraudulent loans, illegal gifts (1), illegal campaign contributions (5), money laundering (6), perjury, obstruction of justice.

Feel free to count up those Bush Administration indictments.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

They should just air all political news and speeches in the US on the comedy network. Or fox, same thing.

[tie]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Wolfowitz is leaving, as he should.

Wolfowitz to Resign From World Bank - New York Times

And the Dems blocked Bush's appointment of another crook (Bush thought a $150,000 bribe was acceptable). http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/23/wa...aroody.html?hp

spacefreak's still looking for those WMD Clinton hid.