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gangster · 01:41 AM

I have been away for awhile in Iraq folks and request some input. I thought I might see an improved Mac Pro upon my recent return home...I'm not sure. I can still get the following, is it a "better" choice for general computing compared to the newest units in your opinions? Also, didn't this (linked) unit cost less 6 months ago, I thought it was $2499? Also, I don't see Amazon rebates anymore. Thanks in advance for any info.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MA970LL-...6403013&sr=8-1

Simon · Mar 7, 2009, 05:42 AM

It's priced $200 more than the entry-level quad core Nehalem. But it comes with eight physical cores, and has a much higher RAM ceiling. Compared to the cheapest new octo-core ($3299) it has less memory, a smaller disk, and it will be slower. If yu plan on expansion, keep in mind FB DIMMs are more expensive than Nehalem's DDR3.

I'd say it's a money issue. If you can spend $3299 the octo Nehalem's clearly better. But if $2600 is all you can spend (and since you mention 'general computing') the Amazon offer is probably best.

bearcatrp · Mar 7, 2009, 11:31 AM

Glad you made it back in one piece. Was there during desert storm myself. B&H has one for $2399.00. Go here http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...o_Desktop.html for details. Check apple refurb section periodically for the same priced one. I snagged one last month for the same price. You won't be disappointed with it. Is a heck of allot faster than my 2ghz quad mac pro.

gangster · Mar 7, 2009, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the info. I think I'll just grab the previous generation from B&H, its the same unit that Amazon sells and its $230 less, plus the $50 rebate.

I didn't find anything similar in the Apple store, unfortunately. That inventory probably comes and goes. I bought my Macbook Pro there last year.

Thanks again.

Simon · Mar 7, 2009, 01:47 PM

For the MP refurbs have become a terrible option.

A single config with octo 3.2 GHz for $4099. A really bad deal.

Big Mac · Mar 8, 2009, 01:37 PM

Which seems to indicate that Apple itself knows this new lineup sucks. Apple wasn't afraid to let the Early 2008 MBP refurbs compete against the unibodies very aggressively on price.

gangster · Mar 8, 2009, 03:28 PM

So true. I ordered a last generation unit from B&H yesterday before they are gone.

delete · Mar 8, 2009, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by gangster

So true. I ordered a last generation unit from B&H yesterday before they are gone.

Same here.
This reminds me of buying a black Macbook last November right after then new Firewireless-Macbooks were released.
Apple seems to be doing more two step forward, one step back product releases.

dieselboy · Mar 9, 2009, 05:57 PM

Im on the market for a new workstation. I was thinking on buying the new 2.26GHz 8-Core model.
I'll be using the workstation for web development / print (apps: Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator & Flash). Apple claims that the new model are much faster. The new models are looking very attractive for me just because the ram speed is much faster and is able to handle more RAM. As everyone knows Photoshop can destroy memory. I would like to purchase a workstation that would last at least 3 to 4 years. I cant justify dropping $3300 every 2 years.

My questions is should I try to hunt for the 3.0GHz or 3.2GHz older model or just go ahead and purchase the 2.26GHz new model?

Simon · Mar 10, 2009, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by dieselboy

Im on the market for a new workstation. I was thinking on buying the new 2.26GHz 8-Core model.
I'll be using the workstation for web development / print (apps: Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator & Flash). Apple claims that the new model are much faster. The new models are looking very attractive for me just because the ram speed is much faster and is able to handle more RAM. As everyone knows Photoshop can destroy memory. I would like to purchase a workstation that would last at least 3 to 4 years. I cant justify dropping $3300 every 2 years.

My questions is should I try to hunt for the 3.0GHz or 3.2GHz older model or just go ahead and purchase the 2.26GHz new model?

For overall performance the new 2.26 GHz Nehalem octo will be similar to the previous 3.2 GHz Harpertown octo.

The apps you mentioned and the 3-4 years lifetime point toward the octo models because the quad core models don't offer more than 6GB (max performance) or 8GB (max capacity) RAM.

The 2.26 will come with more memory, a bigger HD, and a better GPU than the older 3.2 GHz. Also, memory for the 2.26 will be a whole lot cheaper than the FB DIMMs you need for the older 3.2 GHz.

If you can find a 3.2 GHz for significantly less than $3299 it might be worth looking at. But at the same price or at $4099 (the ludicrous Apple refurb price) it makes no sense and you'd be better off getting a new 2.26.

dieselboy · Mar 10, 2009, 09:26 AM

Thanks Simon...I'll probably go down to the Apple store this weekend and pick-up the 2.26GHz model. I'll be swapping the OEM Apple HDD for a WD VelociRaptor 300GB HDD.

Simon · Mar 10, 2009, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by dieselboy

Thanks Simon...I'll probably go down to the Apple store this weekend and pick-up the 2.26GHz model. I'll be swapping the OEM Apple HDD for a WD VelociRaptor 300GB HDD.

Sounds good.

gangster · Mar 10, 2009, 11:43 AM

You should also find this model (new 2.26) at Amazon.com soon, and probably with a $200+ rebate. At least, thats been the pattern in the past.

nikstar101 · Mar 10, 2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

For overall performance the new 2.26 GHz Nehalem octo will be similar to the previous 3.2 GHz Harpertown octo.

From the inital benchmarks that i have seen from people who have recieved there machines, it looks like the 2.26 Octo performs roughly on par with the Octo 2.8. OK so the benchmarks are using Cinebench but i don't think it will be comaprable with the 3.2.

Simon · Mar 10, 2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by nikstar101

From the inital benchmarks that i have seen from people who have recieved there machines, it looks like the 2.26 Octo performs roughly on par with the Octo 2.8. OK so the benchmarks are using Cinebench but i don't think it will be comaprable with the 3.2.

Apple did Cinebench benchmarks.

The 2.93 Nehalem was 1.3 times as fast as the 3.2 GHz Harpertown. If you scale 2.93 GHz with 1.3 and you get pretty exactly 2.26 GHz.

nikstar101 · Mar 10, 2009, 12:20 PM

Here are the actual results:

Cinebench
2.26 Octo:
Rendering Single: 2309
Rendering Multi: 18088
OpenGL: 4691

2.8 Octo 2008
Rendering Single: 3220
Rendering Multi: 18205
OpenGL: 6088

So it isn't beating the 2.8 yet. But i am sure there are more tests that will help it in its favour. Such as Geekbench where it scored a very high 13118 versus the 3.2's 11240. Very odd.

Simon · Mar 10, 2009, 12:28 PM

Do you have those numbers for the 3.2GHz Harpertown too? I'd be interested to know where the discrepancy between your results and Apple's comes from.

nikstar101 · Mar 10, 2009, 02:40 PM

At the moment i can only find the 3.2 Render multi at 21354 from barefeats.com. I know its out there because i saw it earlier. Will keep looking.

nikstar101 · 03:05 PM

Got it!!

Cinebench:
2008 3.2 Octad
Rendering (Single CPU): 3682
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 21221
Multiprocessor Speedup: 5.76

Look through some results i have found that the 2.26s single thread performance is the bit that is letting it down. So while it can keep up on the multi thread programmes it fall down on the consumer or programmes that can only run single threads (or programmes like photoshop that only use 2-3 threads).

Edit adding 2.93 Octo
Rendering (Single CPU): 4074
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 25644
Multiprocessor Speedup: 6.29

That gives roughly a 1.21x gain on the Rendering Multi CPU.

Camali · Mar 10, 2009, 05:22 PM

So the 2.26 Octo isn't a good choice for Photoshop? Or any of the CS4 programs?

bearcatrp · Mar 11, 2009, 12:56 AM

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...664724&page=15

Take a look at the second post. Shows a graph on cinibench scores from the new ones and older ones.

Simon · Mar 11, 2009, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Camali

So the 2.26 Octo isn't a good choice for Photoshop? Or any of the CS4 programs?

Sure it is. The 2.26 octo is very fast Mac if you can afford to spend $3299. IMHO the quad cores are not an option at all because they come with a consumer grade RAM ceiling. That leaves the new octo and refurb Harpertown models. Those cost $4099 so they're pretty much out of the question. If you find a very good deal on a used Harpertown that might be interesting.

In principle trading cores for clock speed can make sense if you have a single-threaded app, but keep in mind that Nehalem has Turbo Boost (increasing the clock on a core as long as the total CPU power limit is not reached) which will help in such a situation, Harpertowns don't. Also, with SL and GC we might see certain tasks accelerated even without apps being rewritten. Having multiple cores (and Hyperthreading) will likely be of considerable benefit even if you use only one or two heavy apps at a time.

gangster · 05:09 PM

Info:

Amazon.com now has both new standard configs listed as "not yet released" and available for pre-order...but...no rebates. I looked around at other available mac models on amazon and didn't see any with rebates. So they may not be doing it anymore. As is, they are both $5.00 off retail and no tax. Shipping will likely be free.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-...6891553&sr=8-9

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-...891553&sr=8-12

ccwillows · Mar 12, 2009, 07:12 PM

I wasn't sure what to do with this update, either. It seemed foolish of Apple not to offer a more cost effective entry model, say $2000ish. I do audio, basic web design, and basic video editing, along with standard computing tasks. An iMac would probably suffice, but I already have a cinema display. A mini isn't enough. I finally went with a $1599 Used Dual Woodcrest from Mac of All Trades. Should arrive tomorrow. Can't beat the price. I've had more problems with new apple hardware than used, (see Rev. A Macbook Pro.)

gangster · Mar 20, 2009, 02:34 AM

amazon has listed the new mac pro's as available now. the older mac pro generation models are rising in price. also, no more rebates, a former common practice that save us money at amazon.

Tarkio · Mar 21, 2009, 08:47 AM

I spent several weeks deciding what to buy as I'm way past the time to upgrade. I went with the new octo 2.26 MP with the upgraded Radeon card and 8GB RAM upgraded to 12GB in 6 slots. I do a lot of midi/audio with huge streaming sample libraries and the fast memory speeds of the new MPs will be a noticeable improvement over the previous MPs.

Also, a fast GPU will become even more important after Snow Leopard. My gut tells me that when a new screaming fast GPU comes out in the next year or so, Apple will "limit" it to the current MP generation.

I did consider the new 2.66 MP, but I felt that for the additional $1400(!) I wouldn't see enough difference in day to day usage to justify such an expense, which will go instead to an Epson 3800 large format printer and a bunch of fast drives.

Simon · Mar 22, 2009, 03:23 AM

Sounds like good judgement to me.

Have fun with your new Mac Pro!

sneezymarble · Mar 22, 2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

Sure it is. The 2.26 octo is very fast Mac if you can afford to spend $3299. IMHO the quad cores are not an option at all because they come with a consumer grade RAM ceiling.

It's actually worse than that. Most consumer grade Nehalem (i7) motherboards support, at the very least, 12GBs; with most of the major manufacturers supporting up to 24GBs. In other words, the 2009 quad has a RAM ceiling lower than the current consumer grade RAM ceiling.

SierraDragon · Mar 23, 2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Sounds like good judgement to me.

Have fun with your new Mac Pro!

Agreed!

-Allen Wicks