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Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 23, 2003, 02:58 PM

I am a long time Epson user. After my Epson 700 Photo was nothing but trouble I swore I would never get another Epson.

I folded and replaced it with an Epson c80 thinking they solved the many problems of the old such as clogged ink heads and paper loading wrong.

I was mistaken. My c80 is always clogged, I print a photo on high quality paper and it comes out with lines or it runs out of ink half way though.

I always have to clean the heads every week even though I hardly ever print.

Now I swear I am never getting another Epson. I was looking at canons but I hear that like Epsons even though you replace the ink cart it does NOT replace the ink head which is something I am adamant about now.

The HP's I know do replace the ink head with every ink change.

The Epsons ink heads always became misaligned for no reason leaving lines in each print job.

Questions...

What is the software like for OSX. Is it still horrible?

Can you leave the printer always on without it having to keep the ink charged and warm?

Do the ink heads automatically align before each print?

Out of 10 prints how many of them are botched due to some sort of printer mistake?

Also I ONLY print photos. Almost never any text so what are you opinions on HP's and photo prints.

This is the printer I am interested in:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...892-72893.html

Thanks for your help.

P.S. I am not interested in any Lexmarks.

Fredo · Jul 23, 2003, 04:14 PM

I don't use OS X, so this may not be much use to you. However, I bought a hp970cse over four years ago, and using hp software updates for OS 9, have gotten good service from the machine. I don't use the printer to print a lot of photos, but those I have look really good to me. The software allows for close selection of photo paper, and although somewhat slow, produces good looking, reliable photocopies. Ink level, cleaning and calibration can be accessed at any time.
I have also found reliability and hp tech support to be outstanding.
Drawbacks would possibly be cost of hp ink, and paper.

drissa · Jul 23, 2003, 04:18 PM

Sorry i can't offer much advice, but I just wanted to join you in your Epson hatred. I've just serviced my 830 with my foot.

I'm not entirely convinced that there are any reasonably priced inkjets that prove reliable. Desktop audio/video at professional standards seems well within reach now, but the 'home print centre' is still some way off.

Good luck - I'm told HP are the way forward. And sadly, I've encountered few stable OS X drivers.

Printer wise, I've just decided to get a laser and use print houses.

Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 23, 2003, 05:36 PM

Well the printer I am looking at is in the $400 CAN range on sale for $350 plus I can use it for 30 days and return it if I hate it.

Since it is sorta expensive it is out of that cheapy low end margin.

Link · Jul 23, 2003, 05:52 PM

Ok for starters:

I've had HP and canon printers the entire time I've been using computers, and so far they are still my favorites

I had a lexmark before I got my HP tho.. it finally died by sucking in the entire tray of paper lol.

Anyway.. HP printers are alright. Make sure to get a model that holds a large ink tank.. I leave mine on pretty much all the time and it does automatically turn on. Charged/warmed ink? WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?!

I know inkjets and such do what you're talking about but I've never seen a single one of my machines ever do that.. Actually this is where I really like HP printers.. they power on instantly.

They only 'charge/heat up' when you are about to print something if I'm not mistaken :shrug: and that takes about a second.

But there are 2 things that have and always will annoy me about HP printers.

1. The U shaped paper system. I never could remember how to get envelopes to work with any HP printer... and even when I do it seems to take 2 or 3 tries

2. The fact that when they get a paper jam, it can take a long time to get it undone

Canon printers are awesome (off topic), the ink tanks are replacable without replacing the cartridge head. but I find that my canons like to run out of ink often :shrug:

The best part is you can always grab one of those ink refill kits with a canon printer and squirt the ink into the tank. Saves time and money ^_^

Oh, HPs do require aligning when you buy cartridges.. I never bother and thus sometimes my prints could be better

zigzag · Jul 23, 2003, 06:01 PM

I've had an HP 970 for a few years that's worked well even though I use it infrequently. No clogs.

I would nonetheless consider a Canon. I haven't heard any complaints about them clogging, and costs are much lower if you print a lot.

mark9939 · Jul 23, 2003, 07:04 PM

HP is all I buy for my printers. IMO, they're the best out there. I still use my 8 year old Deskjet with my Windows machine. Ive owned 4 HPs all together, 2 Deskjets, and 2 All-in-ones. All have been excellent w/o problems. I highly reccommend them.

rezzi · Jul 23, 2003, 07:17 PM

A friend of mine swears by her HP1120c Desktop. Has it connected to a desktop beige G3. I want something similiar for my 6115 pizza-box Performa.

voyageur · Jul 23, 2003, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Skywalkers new Hand:

My c80 is always clogged, I print a photo on high quality paper and it comes out with lines or it runs out of ink half way though.

I always have to clean the heads every week even though I hardly ever print.

Skywalker, re the clogs, did you see this on macintouch today:

"While we've been noting lots of tips for cleaning clogged Epson printer heads, Rob Mohns has a suggestion for avoiding the problem in the first place; turn the printer off:
A friend was told by an Epson sales rep at a CompUSA demo day that Epson inks can spoil over time. It's recommended that you turn off your printer when you are not using it for more than a day, and it will park the print head and seal the ink. Otherwise, exposure to air will cause the inks to go rancid after a couple of months, leading to clogged print heads and the usual trouble. I turn my Epson Stylus Photo printer on to use it, then back off at the end of a work session. "

gdiddy · Jul 23, 2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Fredo:
I don't use OS X, so this may not be much use to you. However, I bought a hp970cse over four years ago, and using hp software updates for OS 9, have gotten good service from the machine. I don't use the printer to print a lot of photos, but those I have look really good to me. The software allows for close selection of photo paper, and although somewhat slow, produces good looking, reliable photocopies. Ink level, cleaning and calibration can be accessed at any time.
I have also found reliability and hp tech support to be outstanding.
Drawbacks would possibly be cost of hp ink, and paper.

I also have the hp970cse and have had no problems. My folks have and 825c and a 930c and I've been able to print from both of them with no problems when I visit them.

davidflas · Jul 23, 2003, 08:42 PM

I have an HP 1220c that I've had for years, and I have an HP Photosmart 7550 that I've had for months. I've been very happy with print quality from both. I wouldn't buy any other type of printer.

m2bored · Jul 23, 2003, 08:42 PM

I ALSO have the HP 970cse and have had it for about 5 years!!
I even bought a 4 yr warranty with it that I e never once used

I have had zero problems with this printer...
I wont replace it till it dies...

M2

P.S. Pictures are good..Im sure you could find something better though seeing that is was developed 5 or so years ago.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · 04:54 PM

Thanks everyone for your help, it was an interesting experience looking for another printer.

I read LOTS of reviews for the HP photo printers, they all got ok reviews but everything but the highest model (the one I was interested in) was really, really slow. Even the one I was looking at is considered slow and has the HIGHEST cost per page of any other printer in its class. The ink method was also rather odd on this model. It had one black and 2 three colour carts. One colour cart for photos and one for graphics. On the lower models you had to crack her open and manually switch the ink carts every time you wanted to print another format, really dumb.

Almost every review for the HP 7550 mentioned that is was not as fast or had as good image quality as the Canon i900 which was the top rated printer in its class.

As the store I was planning on buying the HP at had no Canons and I thought you couldn't change the ink heads I counted the Canons out.

I went to the store tonight with plans on walking out with the HP 7550. When i got there I noticed that the printer looked extremely flimsy and cheap in person. The paper tray was overcomplicated with 3 folding parts and a sliding door for 4x6, that creaked and snapped when adjusted. I turned on the printer and it cleaned, moaned and groaned for about 60 seconds cleaning the ink and making a hell of a racket. I had Epson flashbacks.

Then I printed a test page from the HP menus to see ink levels and such. The page came out with the back smeared all over the page and bleeding way beyond the black bar it printed. Another Epson Flashback.

Then I opened the ink door to see the carts, the door half fell off when I did.

It also comes with all the ink cars but they are 60% full. Just like Epson.

The sales guy came over and I ask him if it is a good printer, he said "just look at the price, of course it is good". Then I ask which model was the best, he said HP because they have the most printers and the most experience. Uh huh, I bet he thinks the same about PC's.

I ask him if they carried the Canon 900 he said not anymore cuz they just replaced it with the i950 and it wasn't even on display yet.

I ask him the price and it was $10 more then the sale price of the HP 7550. I ask him for a computer with net access to read reviews to decide on which printer to get. I found a couple sites and they all were blown away by the i950 saying it is the best consumer photo printer on the market right now, it even beats the previous Canon i900 by quite a bit. The reviews were very detailed and specific.

The plus sides for the Canon:
6 colour ink, this is the way Photo Printers should be.
I can replace EACH colour individually.
Cheap ink compared to the HP and Epson.
Smaller droplet size.
Cheap cost per page.
The ink heads ARE replaceable if need be. It comes with one but if it is every totally clogged you can get a new one. An Epson becomes a paperweight.
Borderless printing on 8.5 x 11 (the HP did not have that)
Quite, smaller then the HP and great build quality.
You can leave the printer on as it shuts it self off. You CANNOT do this with Epsons as when they are on they heat and charge the ink. If you keep it like this the ink will spoil and the heads clog. Epson support told me the same.
Looks nicer, dark gray, white, and a brushed metal lid, looks great with Mac�s. The HP was metallic blue and black like a cheap PC.

Downsides:
No built in media card reader.
No LCD
No USB 2.0 (Edit. USB 2.0 full speed is included.)
None of these things really mattered as I would NEVER print directly from a card, I don�t have USB 2.0 and the LCD is useless unless you print direct from a card.
$10 more with the HP on sale but $40 cheaper when it is not on sale.

Without any help or sales job from the sales guy I chose the Canon.

When I got home I was even more impressed then I thought I would be. This printer has AWESOME software and features that no other printer I have ever used has....

For example:
Sleep mode, you can tell the printer to go to sleep (off really) after a set period of time of inactivity. You can set the time. It also turns it self on when it gets print data sent to it.

Print drying mode. The printer will wait between each page printed at a user selectable interval so the wet pages don�t sit on top of one another.

Silent mode. This one is really cool. You can set it to print in a quite mode, I assume it is slower but that is great if you have roommates and you need to print late. The cooler thing is you can set it to AUTOMATICALLY go into quite mode between certain hours. All these settings and changes and sent to the printers ROM so you don�t have to hold them on the computer and transfers if moved.

Now for the printing.

I took it home, the software is great, better then Epsons and people say they are good with software. Epson didn�t support borderless printing in OSX on some of the printers they are even shipping now! The Canon does.

The printer is quite and fast with graphics.

The Utility menu is more precise with head alignment and got it right on the first adjustment, the Epson NEVER aligned properly.

Quality. Awesome. Printed a 8 x 10 Photo that was only 72 DPI on premium photo paper. The colours were bang on, but a bit darker then what was on my LCD, since my LCD is rather bright this always seems to be the case.

Then I printed a full page grayscale poster I designed at 300 DPI on plane paper. Perfect. Not one line messed up.

So I am really sold on this Canon and now I understand why people keep raving about them. I HIGHLY recommend this printer to anyone who is serious about Photo Printing. Get rid of your Epson and get this Canon!

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/conCpr...&section=10214

geekwagon · Jul 24, 2003, 03:10 AM

I have been eyeing those 950's every time I am in a computer store. One of these days I will crack and buy one.

I currently use a HP990cse, which is a *great* printer under Windows and a passable printer for Linux. Quiet, reliable, the ink lasts quite a while (although it is expensive,) and it supports double sided printing.

Just one problem, in OS X, the drivers have a dumb bug where any page printed doesn't honor the top margin. So, printouts always look awful and things that are supposed to line up (like for a window envelope) don't. It really sucks that poor software can render such an otherwise great printer nearly useless. This bug has been there since February, and the previous version of the driver is of course unavailable (they were way slower, anyway.) I have given up hope that HP will ever fix it.

I just hate to buy another printer since I just paid $300 for this guy not too long ago, and it still prints OK as long as you don't care about the margins. One of these days I'll probably find it on sale somewhere and just buy it

Link · Jul 24, 2003, 05:35 AM

I'm glad I got the canon name in the air then.. lol.

For me it's both ways. Compared to what you're using however, my stuff's pretty much low end.

But I have canon printers that are pushing 7 or 8 years, not to mention they used to make all the 'inkjet' printers for apple (but those were crap).

Personally I still like the fact my 4 year old all in one still does well.. it fell off a counter once and the door opens further then usual now but that's fine.

I still say the best thing about canons is how you can swipe the ink tanks and buy new ones for about $5 sometimes. Just look around and you'll find this true.

joe · Jul 24, 2003, 08:33 AM

Questions...

What is the software like for OSX. Is it still horrible?

OSX drivers work fine with my HP930 and the double sided print option (great for web prints like Yahoo maps). I'd rate them 9/10 only because I think it defaults to plain paper deapite what I save in my presets. My 930 is a few years old though (it was HP's 1st 2400dpi model). I don't think this is an issue with HP's latest printers since they automatically detect the paper type through the print head. I think that's done with the same blue scanner that automatically does the color alignment.

Can you leave the printer always on without it having to keep the ink charged and warm?

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Let me just say that my HP has pretty much been plugged in and turned on since the day I bought it other than power outages from storms. It barely draws any power when not printing. And it's always ready to print.

Do the ink heads automatically align before each print?

They automatically align any time you insert a new cartridge. My HP930 has some sort of blue light scanner built into the print head carrier. The only time it turns on is when it's doing this alignment (IE after changing print carts). I've never had a problem with print head alignment. However, the HP Toolbox software that comes with the OSX drivers let's you do an alignment any time you want. You can also check ink level and do some test print outs too (photo and text).

Out of 10 prints how many of them are botched due to some sort of printer mistake?

None - ever! But let me add that for photo prints I usually set the color tempertare 1 notch "cooler" and the brightness 1 notch "brighter." This seems to give the best color matching to my monitor (Apple 17" Studio CRT - ADC model). My HP930 is only a 4 color printer with 2400dpi res. I'm not sure if this is needed for HP's current 6 color / 4800dpi printers.

Also I ONLY print photos. Almost never any text so what are you opinions on HP's and photo prints.

I've always been very satisfied by the photo quality of my HP930. It uses the same print cartridges (with integrated print heads) as any of the 2400dpi printers from the 900 series to the G85 multifunctions. But I'm not a graphic's professional or photographer. You're best bet is to go to Circuit City, Staples, or some other store where they have the latest HP's on display. If they don't have the model you're interested in - no problem. Just look for one that uses the same printer cartridges and do some test prints. If you've got a Powerbook or iBook bring it with you to the store. You can d/l the latest HP OSX drivers from their web site before you go. The latest HPs are sure to have better quality than mine due to higher 4800dpi and 6 color ink. I have no complaints about my HP930 though. The print quality is superb including photo. I see no reason to upgrade at this time. Good luck......joe

The Placid Casual · Jul 24, 2003, 12:34 PM

I always use Canon and HP...However Canon are my favourite brand.

I favour Canon because the after sales is great, and on numerous occasions they have replaced printers for me within 24 hours even if they have been 11 months old!

Driver and print wise they are excellent and overall great printers... I currently use a S750 for my day to day needs (most documents) and it is great. Separate ink tanks, no replacing of the head, cheap ink... very decent.

I also have a long standing 990cxi which I use a lot. Good and no real complaint, but it does jam now and again, and also the ink is extortionate to replace.... especially when only one colour has gone and the rest are full!

I would recommend to look no further than Canon...

Peace,

Marc

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jul 24, 2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by joe:

Can you leave the printer always on without it having to keep the ink charged and warm?

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Let me just say that my HP has pretty much been plugged in and turned on since the day I bought it other than power outages from storms. It barely draws any power when not printing. And it's always ready to print.
[/B]

Like I said on Epsons when you turn the printer on it charges the ink by warming it. If you leave it on it keep the ink warm and it will spoil sooner and clog the ink heads. Epson support told me to turn it off when I don't use it to avoid problems.

Another thing about the HP7550. The paper thinkness selector which I use all the time was a dial at the BACK on the printer. You would have to pull the printer out and give this big dial a twist. Not too bright.

I was also disgusted by Epsons latest move that doesn't allow you to buy any 3rd party carts because of that chip. Screw them.

maxintosh · Jul 24, 2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I was also disgusted by Epsons latest move that doesn't allow you to buy any 3rd party carts because of that chip. Screw them.

Actually Epson does this in part to protect the consumer. There has been a huge epidemic of "fake" ink that is packaged to look like the real stuff, when it infact is not. Using the encrypted chip allows the printer to verify the validity of the ink. Third party ink in a printer is fixed print heads = bad.

I like Epson's photo imaging better than HPs. My past HPs have been just as unreliable as my Epsons, just in different ways. HP tends to have problems with paper feeding, and Epson tends to have problem with the ink heads. Either way I've more or less accepted to fact that ink jet printers are disposable, and Epson seems to give a lot of bang for the buck. Can't comment on Canon or Lexmark.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jul 24, 2003, 03:35 PM

Just found another nifty Canon feature.

If you want to clean the print heads you can tell it to clean JUST the black cart heads or the colour ones. There is also an option for regular cleaning and a deep clean if all else fails. Man this thing is packin'!

Cellery · Jul 24, 2003, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the review SHOS, it gave me a good lead on getting a new printer. My Epson C80 is now fully clogged up after only a year and a half of usage, and I even purchased all-new ink cartridges in the hopes of reviving it. I should have put that $80 towards a new printer. I should have learned my lesson with the 740i and 777i that I previously had.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jul 24, 2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Cellery:
I should have put that $80 towards a new printer. I should have learned my lesson with the 740i and 777i that I previously had.

It is true, my epson 700 was junk and I swore Epson off because they didn't even make OSX drivers for it. I am SO mad at myself for the Epson c80, I also replaced all the ink a week ago, even if I sell the epson for $100 is is packed with $70 of new ink.

Also, I made a mistake about the Canon i950, it DOES have USB 2.0, it just says USB on the box but in the tech docs it says 2.0 which will be nice when I have a G5

Anywho, you can read the review that sold me on it here:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/consume...509/index.html

mbryda · Jul 24, 2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Like I said on Epsons when you turn the printer on it charges the ink by warming it. If you leave it on it keep the ink warm and it will spoil sooner and clog the ink heads. Epson support told me to turn it off when I don't use it to avoid problems.

That's interesting - I have 2 Epsons - Stylus 880 and a Photo 875DC that are on 24x7 and need a cleaning maybe once a month. I do try to print about a page or 2 a week though. Probably go though a couple carts. per year.

HP is overpriced and overrated - they have the worst photo quality (4 color system), highest cost per page, and generally are not a bargain at all.

mbryda · Jul 24, 2003, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Also, I made a mistake about the Canon i950, it DOES have USB 2.0, it just says USB on the box but in the tech docs it says 2.0 which will be nice when I have a G5

Won't benefit you at all for printing. The bottleneck for that is the printer's mechanicals, not the USB connection. 11MB/sec is plenty fast for a printer...

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jul 24, 2003, 11:47 PM

I found out how the quite mode works. It skips the cleaning mode when waking which is generally the loudest part of the printing.

joe · Jul 25, 2003, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Like I said on Epsons when you turn the printer on it charges the ink by warming it. If you leave it on it keep the ink warm and it will spoil sooner and clog the ink heads. Epson support told me to turn it off when I don't use it to avoid problems.

Was that for your particular model of Epson printer - or do all Epson models do that?

Another thing about the HP7550. The paper thinkness selector which I use all the time was a dial at the BACK on the printer. You would have to pull the printer out and give this big dial a twist. Not too bright.

That's not a thickness selector, that big dial is what removes the back panel so you can install the double sided print option. Just about all HPs have that removable panel except the entry models. I bought the "duplex" option for my HP930 and it kicks ass! It only adds about 2.5" to the back of the printer and allows the HP to turn the paper over and print on the back automatically. You can turn this feature off or on and select "book" or "tablet" printing on the fly through HP's OSX drivers.

As for setting thickness, HPs do that automatically. I don't recall ever seeing a thickness adjustment on any HP printer even going back to the old HP500. Newer models like that 7550 also detect paper type (glossy, matte, plain) automatically as well.

I was also disgusted by Epsons latest move that doesn't allow you to buy any 3rd party carts because of that chip. Screw them.

Just about all printer manufacturers have done that at one time or another - not just Epson. You can certainly buy high quality 3rd party ink and ink cartridges that work fine. But there are also poor quality inks out there that will damage your printer. The printer manufacturers don't want to get hit with warranty claims because of bad 3rd party ink. And that's the reason they give for not allowing 3rd party carts or ink to work. But I'm not agreeing with the printer manufacturers here. Because while they have a very good reason for not allowing 3rd party ink, they turn around and charge OBSCENE prices for their own ink cartridges! That's a major conflict of interest and goes against the grain of a free market economy. Even worse, I think Lexmark tried to use the DMCA (the most anti-conumer law ever passed) to stop 3rd party ink carts from working in their printers. That's greed taken to extremes! I'm not sure what can be done about it though. The politicians seem to support printer manufacturers over consumer in this matter

.......joe

Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 25, 2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by joe:
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Like I said on Epsons when you turn the printer on it charges the ink by warming it. If you leave it on it keep the ink warm and it will spoil sooner and clog the ink heads. Epson support told me to turn it off when I don't use it to avoid problems.

Was that for your particular model of Epson printer - or do all Epson models do that?

All of them do that. Many other printers do also so you might want to look into your HP.

The reason HP ink is sooooo expensive is because every time you change a cart it replaces the ink head even if you don't need it. Epsons is it impossible to change and on Canons you can change it separately if you want which is the brightest way to do it.

That is why Canon ink is the cheapest on the market.

mishakim · Jul 25, 2003, 04:56 PM

I have a HP930, and contrary to Joe's experience, I must say, I wouldn't reccomend it. It jams about 25% of the time, especially when printing a lot at once. It will be going along fine, 5 pages into a long document, then just completely eat a piece of paper--sometimes it only crumples it and you can pull it out easily, other times it disappears almost completely and takes forever to get out.

The print driver recognizes that something has gone wrong, and once you clear it, restarts the entire print job, not just from where it jammed. I guess that makes sense, but it wastes paper.

It also botches envelopes about 50% of the time, letting them slip to a funny angle as they feed in.

I've had good experiences with HPs, just not the 930.

Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 25, 2003, 04:59 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer.../canon-02.html

Epson, on the other hand, has a head fitted to the printer. This makes the cartridges quite a bit cheaper, but, as the heads stay in place, they wear out in time. So there are three risks:
When it is not used, the head is inclined to clog because the ink dries. There is not much chance of this with HP and Lexmark, where the heads are always new. This becomes fairly tiresome in time, because the heads must be cleaned so often, and cleaning is a long process -- noisy and ink-consuming.
The more you print, the more wear on the heads. Results towards the end of the device's lifetime are likely to be of poorer quality than at the beginning.
The printer warranty also covers the head. When the warranty runs out, you will have to change your printer if the heads cannot be unclogged, unless you decide to have it repaired - but this is expensive and not always the wisest decision.

Canon has semi-fixed heads. Actually, they are integrated into a separate block and are neither part of the printer nor the cartridge. So, you should change the block when you think the print quality is no longer up to snuff, or when the heads are completely clogged.

tooki · Jul 26, 2003, 01:28 AM

USB 2.0 high-speed: 480Mbit/sec
USB 1.1 and 2.0 full-speed: 12Mbit/sec
USB 1.1 and 2.0 low-speed: 1.5Mbit/sec

In other words, ANY USB 1.1 device can now be called a USB 2.0 device, and that's exactly what Canon and HP do.

tooki

Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 26, 2003, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
USB 2.0 high-speed: 480Mbit/sec
USB 1.1 and 2.0 full-speed: 12Mbit/sec
USB 1.1 and 2.0 low-speed: 1.5Mbit/sec

In other words, ANY USB 1.1 device can now be called a USB 2.0 device, and that's exactly what Canon and HP do.

tooki

Like others have mentioned that USB 1.0 is fast enough for the printer as it can't even print that fast physically.

tooki · Jul 26, 2003, 03:38 PM

I'm not disputing that USB 1.1 is fast enough (USB 1.0 was never used, for all intents and purposes). I'm just saying that to my best knowledge, no USB printer actually uses USB 2 high-speed mode.

tooki

Skywalkers new Hand · Jul 26, 2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
I'm not disputing that USB 1.1 is fast enough (USB 1.0 was never used, for all intents and purposes). I'm just saying that to my best knowledge, no USB printer actually uses USB 2 high-speed mode.

tooki

It would be pointless to include it if the printer couldn't use it.

joe · Jul 27, 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Skywalkers new Hand:
All of them do that. Many other printers do also so you might want to look into your HP.

Done, it turns out HP is "thermal drop on demand." It only heats the ink when it drops it on the page. Ditto most other consumer ink jet printers except Epson. Epson uses a pressure drop instead (Piezo heads). I didn't realize that also required heating until you mentioned it though.....joe

Link · Jul 29, 2003, 05:00 AM

Ahh that explains a lot

I'm still sticking with canons for now on. I like my Hp 940.. compared to the lexmark z53 I had before.

But canon still has a place in my office ^_^.. I love the fact that black ink for those things is soooooo cheap usually!!

I'm alright with my hp 940 for now tho :shrug: except the ink is horridly expensive and I seem to have to replace the cartridge every 2-3 months >

Which isn't a big deal since canons require it every 1 month if you print a lot BUT..

cartridges for i950: $6
cartridges for HP 940: $34

you get the point?

joe · Jul 30, 2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Link:
I'm alright with my hp 940 for now tho :shrug: except the ink is horridly expensive and I seem to have to replace the cartridge every 2-3 months >

Which isn't a big deal since canons require it every 1 month if you print a lot BUT..

cartridges for i950: $6
cartridges for HP 940: $34

you get the point?

We had an HP 940 here at the office. I agree about the ink - totally sucks. Also, the 940 doesn't auto-align either. But it's different for my HP 930 (or any HP that uses 45 series carts: 950/970/990 G series, etc). Those 45 series carts cost $27 each and hold a larger capacity 42ml of ink compared to the 940 carts.

These printer manufacturers have quite a racket going on. The f'ing games they play with changing cartridges, prices, and ink capacities all add up to screw consumers big time. That's typical for biz I guess. But this latest crap about using chips on the carts or the DMCA to lock out cartridge refill kits and 3rd party competition really takes things to extremes IMHO. I'm glad to see that Canon hasn't sold out yet. But I wouldn't take that for granted either......joe

Link · Jul 30, 2003, 08:23 AM

yeah joe you're totally right about the 940. I was totally stoked as I had never seen a printer that used THAT kinda tank before o_O

Kinda irritates the @#($# outta me since the same price gives you about 2x the ink.. It's all about marketing I suppose.

Then again, I still ahve the warranty on my pritner and the paper tray is kinda loose so I might look into replacing the printer eventually... depends on where that goes.

lexhair · Jul 31, 2003, 09:20 AM

One feature of the HPs I like (I've had 3, the latest being a 932C) is the paper path is a U shape. Paper jams are rare and the new case designs make it a little easier to clear them when they do happen. I can shove the printer in a shelf on my computer cart and save desktop space. This feature overwhelms the downsides which are:[list=1][*]Envelope feeding is finicky.[*]HP drivers for OSX are so so.[*]Word X usually reports text outside the printable area but it's rarely accurate.[/list=1]
That Canon looks great but the top paper feed isn't desirable for me.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jul 31, 2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by lexhair:
One feature of the HPs I like (I've had 3, the latest being a 932C) is the paper path is a U shape.

This is more of a downside.

With thinker paper you can run into a mean jam or kinking since it is taking a 90 degree turn.

Also, some reviewers have mentioned that the gears that pull the paper through are so strong they leave grooves and cuts in expensive photopaper.

lexhair · Jul 31, 2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
This is more of a downside.

With thinker paper you can run into a mean jam or kinking since it is taking a 90 degree turn.

Also, some reviewers have mentioned that the gears that pull the paper through are so strong they leave grooves and cuts in expensive photopaper.

Good point. I guess it would be a downside for photo only printing. Most of my printing is text and color on standard 20lb paper so I've never experienced this potential issue. A straight through paper path would be better if you have the space for it.

Dale Sorel · Jul 31, 2003, 12:26 PM

I have a DeskJet 935C and it works just fine

OreoCookie · Jul 31, 2003, 02:03 PM

Take a look at Canon, I am a `switcher' from HP. My thoughts: HP makes printers, but the ink is a rip-off! Canon makes very good printers and sells the ink for little. No fuel tank of a rocket drive, but a simple translucent plastic thingi with a sponge in it. They have made the same for years (I think 4 and counting or so).

My (semi-permanent) print head hasn't made any problems despite printing a lot.

joe · Aug 1, 2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
This is more of a downside.

Whoa - no way!!! Seriously, this is one of the 2 main reasons I haven't switched to another print manufactuer (yet). My HP930 actually sits IN a small bookshelf below the hutch of my desk SPECIFICALLY because of the front loading i/o trays. This leaves more desktop space for paperwork or my notebook PC from work. This is a major MAJOR M-A-J-O-R advantage to HP and can't be overstated (though I'll try

I'm disgusted that other print manufacturers haven't copied this feature yet because it limits my upgrade options - this feature is extremely useful in a home or home/office environment. What's even better is that the HP 930 (and 932/935) take that one step further because the i/o trays are FOLDING. Thus making this the smallest most compact and convenient desktop printer I've ever used. When I'm not printing I fold up the trays (with paper inside) to allow use of the front part of the bookshelf for other items (calculator, coffee, pens, etc). I wish to hell HP offered a similar form factor with their latest 4800dpi / 6 color ptinters because this is a HUGE benefit with my 930!

With thinker paper you can run into a mean jam or kinking since it is taking a 90 degree turn.

No, at least not with my printer. I've read of other HP printers that jam including other 930s (ditto other manufacturers from Epson to Canon). I think HP has QC issues to deal with from time to time - ditto the other manufacturers. But I've had my HP930 since the day it was released (bought one of the 1st in the store). I've used everything from plain paper to extra heavy double sided photo paper - it hasn't jammed on me once! No bs - not even once! Add to that the fact that I also have the duplex option which flips the paper over automatcially and prints on both sides. And yes, that's the reason I bought the double sided photo paper

However, I mostly used the 2-sided print option for every day stuff like Yahoo maps and wp docs. My photo prints are 1-sided photo these days.

Also, some reviewers have mentioned that the gears that pull the paper through are so strong they leave grooves and cuts in expensive photopaper.

Now this I have seen this with one brand of photo paper. But it wasn't expensive photo paper - only some cheap generic 4x6" stuff I bought once at Office Max. Believe it or not, I get the best results on 4x6" photo paper with Epson matte. My best results on full size paper is with Kodak photo (matte or glossy). And I get the best text results with HP Bright white.

Sorry SHS, I generally agree with most HP criticism ESPECIALLY ink prices. But this time you're talking about the design features that are unique to HP and have been keeping me from selling my 930 and upgrading. I use these features DAILY and would only replace with a new printer with similar features. And it wouldn't matter ot me if that new printer was HP, Canon, Lexmark, etc - just as long as it had the front i/o trays and duplex printing. As always, YMMV because different features are less important to others. But those are major to me........joe

Socially Awkward Solo · Aug 1, 2003, 02:31 PM

Oh Joe,

I don't know what to tell ya. If your #1 concern is weather or not the thing will fit on your small shelf over print quality I think you are one of the few.

You admit the ink is costly and it does mark up some paper but all is forgiven because it is compact. Oh lordie.

For me the #1 one thing is the print quality, followed by reliability and ink costs.

On the shelf I use the HP would not have fit as it sticks out too much in the front and I would snag it if I walked by. The Canon does not have that problem as I can slide the tray in.

Oh and the rollers scuffing up the paper was the top of the line photo printer on the market for HP, the 7550, not some cheap model.

emdash · Aug 1, 2003, 04:27 PM

Yeah, my HP 1220c/ps is astoundingly bad with paper feeding. The normal U-shaped paper path is useless for anything other than thin copy paper, and even the straight-through path requires a little operator assistance to encourage the paper to start feeding. (This was extremely frustrating when I was printing photos on 11x17 photo paper: the (giant) files took several minutes to spool to the printer, so I had to sit around and wait for the printer to start trying to feed the paper so I could give it the little extra push at the right moment.)

Worst of all, the printer doesn't recognize if the paper isn't feeding; it just goes right ahead and prints on the roller. Worthless.

Print quality for photos was crummy, too.

I love my new Epson 2200.

We'll see how it ages....

joe · 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
Oh Joe,

I don't know what to tell ya. If your #1 concern is weather or not the thing will fit on your small shelf over print quality I think you are one of the few.

That wasn't my #1 concern. It was a response to your criticism about the front loading trays. Yes, they're one of the reasons I haven't upgraded, but not the only one.

You admit the ink is costly and it does mark up some paper but all is forgiven because it is compact. Oh lordie.

No it isn't costly. HPs with 45 series carts are not costly at all. Yes, they sell for $27 retail, but they also hold 42ml of ink. I already covered this in a previous post. This is another reason why I haven't upgraded my 930.

Yet another reason why I haven't upgraded is the duplex printing hardwawe. It's damned convenient. Canon, Epson, Lexmark, etc haven't come out with their own version yet. If they do it's going to cost a s-load because it relies very much on HP's front loading i/o tray design.

And those aren't the only reasons either. As mentioned above the 930 has very good photo quality. Again - mentioned these before in previous posts.

I "admit" HPs flaws as you point out. I sure as hell don't let them off the hook or any other print manufacturers either. And I also "admit" advantages of other manufacturers. Overall I bought the printer that bests suits where I'm using it. For home that's the HP930, for work that's a Canon i70, for the Office it's either the G85 OfficeJet or Brother AIO laser (I've got about half dozen of each). And while you don't see Epson or Lexmark in that list, you also didn't see me saying they were junk either. It's called objectivity, try it sometime......joe

Back up 15 and punt · Aug 2, 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Take a look at Canon, I am a `switcher' from HP. My thoughts: HP makes printers, but the ink is a rip-off! Canon makes very good printers and sells the ink for little. No fuel tank of a rocket drive, but a simple translucent plastic thingi with a sponge in it. They have made the same for years (I think 4 and counting or so).

My (semi-permanent) print head hasn't made any problems despite printing a lot.

You are correct the ink is very inexpensive. But if you check Consumers Reports you will find that the Cannons have one of the largest ink consumptions, if not the largest, which drives these printers to the top of the class for cost per pages. Just because a printer has seperate reservoirs for each color doesn't mean it is cheap to operate.