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Immortal K-Mart Employee · Apr 29, 2004, 02:34 PM

"Mr. Jobs addressed the issue of video on iPods when asked by Mike Wendland of the Detroit Free Press whether or not Apple was looking to add features to the iPod. "We want it to make toast," replied Mr. Jobs. "We're toying with refrigeration, too."

While intended to get a laugh, which it did, Mr. Jobs also offered a more substantive answer as to why Apple had heretofore not added too many features to the iPod. "One of the things we say around Apple, and I paraphrase Bill Clinton from the 1992 presidential race, is 'It's about the music, stupid.'"

Mr. Jobs says that there is a big difference between the way people listen to music and other activities like watching videos. Specifically, he said, you can listen to music in the background, while movies require that you actually watch them. "You can't watch a video and drive a car," he said. "We're focused on music."

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/04/28.15.shtml

::maroma:: · Apr 29, 2004, 04:07 PM

Good point about the way people listen to music and the way people watch movies. I don't mind not having video options on the iPod. It would be a nice bonus to be able to watch videos on a separate monitor (through a video out) from the iPod, its not a deal breaker for me.

And this is the first time I've seen "heretofore" used in a sentence.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Apr 29, 2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Good point about the way people listen to music and the way people watch movies. I don't mind not having video options on the iPod. It would be a nice bonus to be able to watch videos on a separate monitor (through a video out) from the iPod, its not a deal breaker for me.

And this is the first time I've seen "heretofore" used in a sentence.

Even more important where does Apple think you are going to get these movies to watch legally?

Daracle · Apr 29, 2004, 04:34 PM

I totally agree with Steve Jobs on this one.
I love the iPods as they are and I would not care if they didnt make anymore changes to them.
There are plenty of alternatives to watching movies out there and I dont think they need to add this to the iPod.

::maroma:: · Apr 29, 2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Even more important where does Apple think you are going to get these movies to watch legally?

Very true. They'd have to roll out iTunes Movie Store. And that's just unreasonable.

rag on a muffin · Apr 29, 2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Even more important where does Apple think you are going to get these movies to watch legally?

DVDs. and like a tivo.

dampeoples · Apr 29, 2004, 09:47 PM

I don't see the allure of watching movies on a small screen. Hell the iBook 12" screen is too small if you ask me. What would you do in direct sunlight?

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 29, 2004, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by rag on a muffin:
DVDs. and like a tivo.

You are not allowed to transfer either recording.

absmiths · Apr 30, 2004, 10:26 AM

Video is most appealing in a theater-like setting - surround sound, plasma screen, nice room, company, etc. I would never buy a little device with a 2" screen in order to watch movies. Besides, they would have to make the thing like 1 TB in order to accomodate the storage (assuming they wanted you to be able to keep a video library on the iPod).

scaught · Apr 30, 2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Even more important where does Apple think you are going to get these movies to watch legally?

quicktime trailers!

osxisfun · Apr 30, 2004, 11:43 AM

Good. Maybe this meme will die.

As they said in the press conference:

Video is a foreground application.
Music is a background application.

Sales of walkman like devices since its inception: A MILLION GAGILLION
Sales of pocket tvs: -crickets-

iREZ · Apr 30, 2004, 12:23 PM

I agree, iPod + video capability = terrible idea. They should just up the HD's and redesign the iPod's wheel like the mini, touch sensitive gets irritating when you got your hands and iPod in your pockets at the same time, but thats only one mans (me) opinion.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Apr 30, 2004, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by scaught:
quicktime trailers!

Oh ya, nothing I want to do more then watch quicktime trailers on my tiny screen when I am listening to music.

::maroma:: · Apr 30, 2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by scaught:
quicktime trailers!

Umm.. who watches movie trailers more than (maybe) a few times? I can't think of a time when I was walking around town, on a bus or whatever, and thought to myself, "Damn! I wish I could watch the "Gigli" trailer right now!"

Brian McHale · Apr 30, 2004, 01:01 PM

I can think of two applications where I would be interested in having video playback capability:

1. Home video. This would be most useful if a video out connection was provided. Then you could load up your iMovies and take them to grandma's house, hook it up to the TV, and watch better-than-DVD quality home movies without having to burn DVDs.

2. Digital Camcorders. I would like to get a digital camcorder, but don't want to have to live with the limitations of tape. I'm really surprised that nobody has come out with a hard drive based camcorder. You could store many hours of uncompressed video on a 20-40 GB hard drive, then connect it to your Mac and copy the files over to the computer's HD. No having to playback/record from the camcorder. And the ideal implementation would be to have the iPod provide the viewer and hard drive! (Well, that's my dream, anyway.)

Casper Crane · Apr 30, 2004, 01:49 PM

hard drive camcorders are coming very soon. this was announced at CES in January:

Samsung ITCAM7

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Apr 30, 2004, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Umm.. who watches movie trailers more than (maybe) a few times? I can't think of a time when I was walking around town, on a bus or whatever, and thought to myself, "Damn! I wish I could watch the "Gigli" trailer right now!"

Ha ha

stefbystef · Apr 30, 2004, 04:16 PM

We desperately need a device that is dedicated in doing just one thing, like the iPod does.

"It's all about making a phone call stupid!"

Imagine the success of an Apple branded mobile phone.

We just need a nice screen to look at, Bluetooth, 100% Mac integration, speech recognition, awsome managing of phone calls, built-in Quicktime Music Sunthesizer for high quality ring tones, some Mp3 player (it doesn't have to replace the iPod), some nice backrounds that makes people go "Aaaaa-Ohhhhh-Ouuuuuu", and a decent mini hard drive (or card) for data storage.

Still waiting!

mitchell_pgh · Apr 30, 2004, 04:21 PM

The sad thing is, he said this around five months ago as well.

yoyoman · Apr 30, 2004, 04:39 PM

yea if apple did something just like that but a detachable camera used like the isight during the day but when u shoot its just as good as a pro cam.

eizzumdm · Apr 30, 2004, 04:40 PM

When Steve Jobs' said "We're toying with refrigeration," most people assumed that he was ridiculing the idea of adding too many features to the iPod. But perhaps he was just being coy...

Check out this Flash presentation about Thermoacoustic Refrigeration from Ben and Jerry's web site.

Adventures in Thermoacoustic Refrigeration!

iPod...Sound ------> Sound...Refrigeration.

Coincidence? I think not!

cantona7 · Apr 30, 2004, 04:41 PM

i agree. watching video on a tiny device is just plain silly. lets see how that 'creative' device does.

a phone on the other hand...

leave the ipod alone. it's perfect.

porieux · Apr 30, 2004, 04:55 PM

In my opinion video on a handheld device is useless.

bizard · Apr 30, 2004, 05:04 PM

Although I agree with Jobs and most of the posts, there is one natural use for a 'video' iPod (and I'm sure that it has occurred to Apple too).

People asked where you would get legal content to put on it, but what is the largest and fastest growing consumer 'computer' product right now? Digital Cameras. And what does the iPod already allow you to store in addition to Music? Photos.

When I take a long vacation, I currently have two options. I can take a couple of extra big cf cards and view all of my photos on a tiny little 1.25" screen while completely draining my batteries. Or I can bring a laptop, the smallest of which in my household currently weighs 5.6 pounds.

A 'video' ipod which gave me the kind of access to my photos in the same manner as the current iPod does music would be unbelievably cool. You get back to your hotel room at night and dump your photos to your iPod. Quickly thumbing through them you make any rotations you need to, organize them into slideshows ala playlists, and then play them back on the vPod's 5" screen or hook it up to the room's tv. Or maybe instead of your hotel room, it is your grandmother's house. And maybe you have your music collection on the iPod too and so you can sync your slideshow to music.

Yes, it is not a background task, but as a foreground feature to my background device it would be indispensable.

laz · Apr 30, 2004, 05:14 PM

I think the ipod someday will be a video management system for Music Videos! That would be great! With a RCA dongle video out, I can connect it to my car audio/video system and fill up my now 3/4 empty ipod with music videos!

This is great fo rthe car shows that I go to, and a way to show off multiple screens within the car. Have you all noticed how iTunes now has Music Videos as well? Well, that would be my wet dream come true! Right now there is no where to get good quality music video downloads. I would more than happily pay for Quicktime music videos with good quality!

PookJP · Apr 30, 2004, 05:35 PM

I'd like to be able to bring and display my iPhoto album on the road. I can certainly see a benefit in adding a color screen for that reason.

LordJohnWhorfin · Apr 30, 2004, 05:42 PM

First, the poster who says you can't extract video out of your Tivo is absolutely incorrect. You can do it legally and with TiVo's blessing, check out their web site. The video is extracted encoded and has DRM built-in.

Second, if video on-the-go was a stupid idea, we wouldn't see such a plethora of tiny DVD players specifically targeting this market. Video on-the-go is a wonderful idea, just ask anybody who's ever had to deal with a long bus, train or plane trip. Being able to play DVDs is nice, but being able to play the very recordings you made at home and haven't had time to watch is perfect.

I agree that it's not as large a market as the one for music iPods; but it's clearly incorrect to claim that there is no market or that the very feature is stupid like some posters in this thread have done. There is a market, there already are a few successful devices out there, and the first one to make a seamless integration with TiVo will take over the market. And there's plenty of growth there...

jwblase · Apr 30, 2004, 05:45 PM

I think an iPhone would be silly for the same reason Jobs has said so: The technology for mobile phones is still changing waaaaaayyyyyy too fast. If people think that an original iPod is out of date (note: I have a first gen iPod, and it still works great... battery life and all), then they've seen nothing with cell phones.

Cell phones change with the fad of the month. Motorola, Nokia, and Samsung don't make money off of the service, so they make it off of the phone. The only way to drive cell phone sales is to be constantly adding new stuff.

Apple would want you to buy an iPod and keep it for awhile, not trade it up in 2 months like a cell phone.

While the idea does fit the "coolness" factor, I don't think it makes good business sense.

JB

clf8 · Apr 30, 2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
You are not allowed to transfer either recording.

As far as DVDs go, you bought it, you should be able to do all the things you can with a CD you bought. TiVo gets a little tricky, but "fair use" should cover that too.

Even with that in mind, Apple would catch a lotta flack if they made a DVD ripper, even if it included some sort of DRM.

Brianimator · Apr 30, 2004, 06:35 PM

Sony Watchman Anyone???

MacnnGregor · Apr 30, 2004, 06:41 PM

I think as Apple sees how many people are checking out the music videos part of the new iTunes store they will have their options open to add the support and download ability and view ability to some device at least in the lab.

I think the smallest sized window to view such things would be 4" diagonal and at good resolution. This would be basically a different device than an iPod. To be honest I don't have an ipod so I can only listen from my powerbook, but I would expect that about 70% of the time I would want music in the background and about 30% of the time I would want it in the foreground. If it is in the foreground I would like to see the video or even slideshows based on the music. So 30% of the time I'd watch a screen, I think..... That wouldn't be enough for me to pay an extra $150 for the device, but I can see whole new forms of media entertainment emerge - animations, Keynote with narration, things that don't require alot of resolution. We won't know what forms it will take unless someone comes up with a devise worth developing for.

Also about the cellphone thing. I think the cell phone market is going to plateau pretty fast. The latest tech will slow down. The bottom cell phone will be just fine for most people and we are getting stuck in these 2 year contracts anyway, so the ability to move services...the cheapest way of getting a new phone...is getting harder too.

digiology2 · Apr 30, 2004, 06:42 PM

I have to say I hate seeing hardware being wasted, a portable HD could be used for music and video without adding to cost of that component. The screen is another issue I suppose (colour would drain battery and cost alot more).
What I want to see is a pda with a HD that can act as an iPod, play movies, and be my mobile phone, when that exists at a decent price I'll be the first in line....

::maroma:: · Apr 30, 2004, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by LordJohnWhorfin:
First, the poster who says you can't extract video out of your Tivo is absolutely incorrect. You can do it legally and with TiVo's blessing, check out their web site. The video is extracted encoded and has DRM built-in.

Second, if video on-the-go was a stupid idea, we wouldn't see such a plethora of tiny DVD players specifically targeting this market. Video on-the-go is a wonderful idea, just ask anybody who's ever had to deal with a long bus, train or plane trip. Being able to play DVDs is nice, but being able to play the very recordings you made at home and haven't had time to watch is perfect.

I agree that it's not as large a market as the one for music iPods; but it's clearly incorrect to claim that there is no market or that the very feature is stupid like some posters in this thread have done. There is a market, there already are a few successful devices out there, and the first one to make a seamless integration with TiVo will take over the market. And there's plenty of growth there...

Yes there are already devices like this, but all of those devices have much larger screens than the iPod. Screen size is a big deal when talking about video. A long time ago I owned a black and white Sony Watchman. The screen was roughly the size of the iPod screen today. It was cool for it's time, but it was a pain in the arse to watch anything for longer than a half hour or so. My eyes would go buggy trying to discern images on that tiny screen.

Making the iPod a video device would almost certainly call for a larger screen. Add that to the other additional price hikes for adding video, and you've got one terribly expensive tiny video device. The market is much too small for Apple to invest in this.

rag on a muffin · Apr 30, 2004, 07:14 PM

i dont understand why you guys think the ipod working with video is a bad idea. the back of the ipod is totally blank, which apple could be using for a screen. and now with flexible LCDs coming to consumer marketing, they could compete with archos. if they dont intergrate video with the new ipods, im going to get an archos.

ender · Apr 30, 2004, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Brian McHale:

2. Digital Camcorders. I would like to get a digital camcorder, but don't want to have to live with the limitations of tape. I'm really surprised that nobody has come out with a hard drive based camcorder. You could store many hours of uncompressed video on a 20-40 GB hard drive, then connect it to your Mac and copy the files over to the computer's HD. No having to playback/record from the camcorder. And the ideal implementation would be to have the iPod provide the viewer and hard drive! (Well, that's my dream, anyway.) [/B]

I can only assume that you have never used iMovie and looked at the amount of space your project took up on your hard drive. DV (which by the way IS compressed) takes roughly 2GB per 10 minutes of video. So, assuming I've also got music on my iPod, you can at best expect to get about an hour of video. So you'd constantly have to load and unload files to keep you content fresh (32 MB flash MP3 player anyone?). And while Firewire is fast, the transfer isn't exactly going to be snappy.

So, compress the video you say? Well, think of the user experience to do that:

1. Transfer video to your Mac (probably in SLOW realtime)
2. Compress video
3. Wait
4. Wait
5. Wait
6. Wait
7. Transfer video to iPod

Not to mention the processing and power requirements to play it back.

Someday there will be libraries of MP4 (or some other format) content to buy online. But releasing a video iPod now would be like releasing the iPod 2 years before the MP3 audio craze started.

ender · Apr 30, 2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by bizard:

People asked where you would get legal content to put on it, but what is the largest and fastest growing consumer 'computer' product right now? Digital Cameras. And what does the iPod already allow you to store in addition to Music? Photos.

This I've been waiting to see Apple develop. And don't forget that most digital cameras will also take short, low resolution video clips. The first generation white iBooks had a mini jack port that did dual service as both an audio out (with regular headphones) audio/video out (with an adaptor that had RCA plugs on the other end). My Canon S50 has a similar jack to hook up to a TV to show the photos and video clips. I don't want to actually view photos and videos on my iPod, but it would be nice to have a way to transport to view someplace else on standard TVs.

(And while they're at it, Apple needs to upgrade iPhoto to handle digital camera video clips. Or develop a companion application. I use the software that came with my camera instead of iPhoto because it's the only way to get the video downloaded.)

osxisfun · Apr 30, 2004, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by rag on a muffin:
i dont understand why you guys think the ipod working with video is a bad idea. the back of the ipod is totally blank, which apple could be using for a screen. and now with flexible LCDs coming to consumer marketing, .

Cost?
Battery Life?
Heat from iPOD HD doesn't effect the LCD?

OLED is happening but we do not know the shipping dates for screen sizes and quantities, costs etc. and for all we know some digital cam company already has the first million on order.

Apple would need millions of units.

they could compete with archos. if they dont intergrate video with the new ipods, im going to get an archos. [/B]

And if Archos ends up making no money because there is no market (compared to ipod size market)?

Does PIXO drive true video?

What if a new processor is required to drive video? A whole new OS? Will this new OS be iPod compatible?

As I posted:

Video is a foreground application.
Music is a background application.

Sales of walkman like devices since its inception: A MILLION GAGILLION
Sales of pocket tvs: -crickets-

Why should apple spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a device with a market size much much smaller then the ipod?

Remember, apple had a head start with the HD mp3 player market. AND then they locked up sales contracts to buy all the HD from toshiba So competitors had to wait.

There are already video players out there now ready to be purchased for people that need to watch movies on the go.

And the market for that is much smaller than the digital music market. So I say let apple continue to build the best music device for a market many times the size of those that want to carry videos to relative's houses or watch Hellboy on a 2 inch screen.

GORDYmac · 08:59 PM

Video was never necessary for me, but better photo support would be great. I don't necessarily want slideshows or anything, I just want to be able to download and review downloaded photos. While that's not music related, Apple has already seen the need. I just hope they add more muscle to their current offering.

RooneyX · Apr 30, 2004, 08:38 PM

The Archos Video Jukebox is selling well and getting very good reviews despite its bulk. It also displays photos, plays mp3s and can record straight from a DVD or TV source.

It's the inevitable direction. If anything Jobs is being secretive or hasn't got any plans yet until he sees the consumer demand.

People dont drive and listen to iPods unless they want to crash. iPods are used for long walks and as mini home music boxes. Video devices can take the place of the stereo and DVD or VHS recorders and allow people to watch them on planes, trains or the backseat of the car.

Casper Crane · Apr 30, 2004, 09:14 PM

actually, i think the iPod is very commonly used in the car...

i don't crash, because i don't wear headphones when i listen. i plug it into my stereo like everyone else.

personally, i would love a tivo replacement from Apple. i doubt it will happen anytime soon, but if apple could put a tivo in my hand, i'd buy it.

an apple smartphone would also do quite well i think, but probably not well enough to make it worth while.

i think the logical progression is to add an OLED screen, and a camera. either built in or as an accessory. the iPod is all about entertainment, and that's why i doubt it will expand it's PDA capabilities.

but it will be blown away when palm or the like finally puts hard drives in their devices. i am a believer in convergence. Treo 600 user!

guytoronto · Apr 30, 2004, 11:38 PM

Where would we get video? How about regular cable TV? We all have VCRs to record shows.

Now imagine...

An add-on for you Mac that gives it PVR capabilities with real-time hardware encoding. It already exists...I have a card in my PC...it cost less than $50. Cheap Mac solutions are not far behind. (I wish ATI would make their Xclaim USB TV work with OS X).

I plug in my xPod ( eXtremePod? WOOHOO!). The video transfers, and now I can watch last nights show on my subway ride into work.

Mmm...fast forward through the commercials on the wheel...fun!

Hey, my wife is watching a music video from the iTMS! Maybe we could watch those on the xPod.

SomeToast · Apr 30, 2004, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by LordJohnWhorfin:
First, the poster who says you can't extract video out of your Tivo is absolutely incorrect. You can do it legally and with TiVo's blessing, check out their web site. The video is extracted encoded and has DRM built-in.

There's a big difference between multi-room viewing and offloading the video to play on some third party device. While it's possible to do with non-sanctioned hacks, if you ask Tivo, the practice is still quite verboten.

adavidw · May 1, 2004, 12:15 AM

As the previous poster was trying to explain, TiVo _will_ allow you to export to a third party device. Check out TiVo2Go at the TiVo website.

-Aaron

Link · May 1, 2004, 12:36 AM

Ugh. I am hating the way apple is pulling a Nintendo on the computer market...

Market is interested in video capable/picture capable ipods:

Steve "NO WAY!"

Market is interested in g5 powerbooks:

Josiwak "NO WAY!"

what's next? People not interested in useful hardware? grrrr....

Socially Awkward Solo · May 1, 2004, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Link:

Market is interested in g5 powerbooks:

Josiwak "NO WAY!"

what's next? People not interested in useful hardware? grrrr....

Are you mental? APple would love nothing more then to make a G5 powerbook, problem is they can't without it going up in smoke and the battery konking out in 15 min.

rag on a muffin · May 1, 2004, 01:39 AM

ff with wheel is a great idea. i made a petition here. anyone who wants a video ipod, please sign this.

SomeToast · May 1, 2004, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by adavidw:
As the previous poster was trying to explain, TiVo _will_ allow you to export to a third party device. Check out TiVo2Go at the TiVo website.

It's also five months off at the earliest. Any direct video extraction possible today isn't through legal means.

Of course, as a Series 1 owner, it means getting a new box, and as a DirecTV subscriber, probably not even then.

3R1C · May 1, 2004, 05:45 AM

I just wanna see the album art inside my mp3's on my iPod. I dont know about you but its alot easier for me to tell who im listening to at a glance from the album art rather than from reading text.

RooneyX · May 1, 2004, 08:43 AM

The handheld PSX will play movies and with the Sony brand and price will really take off. It will be a protected on a new disc format though unlike the Archos which can rip any video source to HD.

If the PSX takes off the iPod will have to evolve fast because the portable video market will explode...in a good way.

graveguy · May 1, 2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Very true. They'd have to roll out iTunes Movie Store. And that's just unreasonable.

Er...This has to be on Apple's radar...true, watching movies on an iPod like device would be painful, but it's not much of a stretch to envision Apple extending its successful digital media distribution process to the video world. A new device to link the 'digital hub' Mac with the television would be needed (and has already been widely rumored) but many of the business relationships formed with the ITMS could evolve into video distribution...the technology is certainly there and bandwidth is almost there...The presence of movie trailers within the iTunes Store seems oddly out of place if video distribution isn't eventually planned...why go to Blockbuster when you can download the same movie for the same price without the inconvenience of renting? Like the movie after watching it? buy the digital rights for a bit more...seems like a no-brainer to me...