[wingdo]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Do you know what a 'Universal' application is?

Yeah but you are going WAY off topic here. Your post said and I quote .....

"The Intel transition was a huge change, and nothing works on both systems."

And I am saying that between Universal applications and Rosetta EVERYTHING I use (read my post) runs on both my MBP and my PB.

(And I could be wrong, but according to Apple's Developer Connection XCode does the vast majority of the work for you. ADC Adopting Universal Binaries)

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by foo2 

But the point is...that took tremendous effort. How long will developers continue to do that for PPC binaries coded for obsolete, slow machines that are an ever-diminishing proportion of the Mac user community?

That I agree with. A few years down the road, I don't see many new "Universal" applications coming out just like there are not a lot of new Classic programs being developed.

[houstonmacbro]

Amen! I am gonna run my 1.33Mhz/G4/15" PB into the ground before I get another laptop.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by wingdo 

Yeah but you are going WAY off topic here. Your post said and I quote .....

"The Intel transition was a huge change, and nothing works on both systems."

And I am saying that between Universal applications and Rosetta EVERYTHING I use (read my post) runs on both my MBP and my PB.

(And I could be wrong, but according to Apple's Developer Connection XCode does the vast majority of the work for you. ADC Adopting Universal Binaries)

But that's exactly my point. To get an application to run on both systems, you have to have two separate executable versions packaged together, or you run it under emulation. Sure, people can keep developing for the PowerPC and assume all of the new Intel users will just run it under Rosetta...but of course not.

The point of what I'm saying, which you seem to be missing, is that the change from PowerPC to Intel is nothing at all like the change from G3 to G4.

[fisherKing]

i like the new mbps, but i really wanted a 12", so i recently bought the final revision 12" alubook.

i can run all my apps well (especially logic rewired to reason), and i have the machine i want to carry around.

my friend does similar work on his black macbook; we compare notes, and...we're each happy with what we have.

as long as you get your work (and play) done, and are happy...who cares?

me, i am waiting for a 12" mbp (and hope my G4 holds out until...as it may be a long time (or perhaps next week, at mwsf??)

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

The point of what I'm saying, which you seem to be missing, is that the change from PowerPC to Intel is nothing at all like the change from G3 to G4.

No, I get your point.

The OP asked about whether to get a PowerBook or a MacBook Pro and you said programs won't work on both systems, when it is quite obvious to everyone else that they will work on both systems. All I said was that I moved my applications from a PowerBook to a MBP and everything ran fine. Yes, some were Universal Binaries, some run under Rosetta ........ so what? They DO run.

Of course a transitional period of some sort (whether Universal Binaries or Rosetta) is required. But this is no more of an issue than the move from 68xxx to PPC a number of years ago. Remember FAT binaries? There was also a software translation layer (the code name escapes me) which ran 68xxx programs on a PPC chip.

Apple does a great job of hiding the translation. Everyone was afraid of the move to PPCs, but everyone got over it. We managed a move from what is now called "Classic" (System 6, 7, MacOS 8, 9) to OS X.

3-5 years down the road, you are right about the fact I would imagine there will be fewer and fewer Universal binaries and more and more Intel only programs out there. That is something the OP does need to be concerned about. At the moment though I cannot think of anything out there which won't run on a G4. I guess it really depends on how quickly the Mac faithful move to Intel and all the PPC machines are relegated into outdated unused technology.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by wingdo 

No, I get your point.

The OP asked about whether to get a PowerBook or a MacBook Pro and you said programs won't work on both systems, when it is quite obvious to everyone else that they will work on both systems. All I said was that I moved my applications from a PowerBook to a MBP and everything ran fine. Yes, some were Universal Binaries, some run under Rosetta ........ so what? They DO run.

It went right over your head again. Unless specific steps are taken, apps will not run on both. I realize that apps already made into UBs on your computer ran fine on both.

The only point I was trying to make is that the move from PowerPC to Intel is different from G3 to G4. You keep missing that. I keep saying it. You still go on and on and on about UB this and Rosetta that. That's not my point. Please let it die.

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

It went right over your head again.

You are right I am wrong. There, I said it. Your original post that "nothing runs on both systems" is correct. Again, I concede.

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

The only point I was trying to make is that the move from PowerPC to Intel is different from G3 to G4. You keep missing that.

Please note though that I am not the one who compared this to the transition from G3s to G4s. You keep missing that.

All I ever said was that it was possible to run the same programs on both systems. I stand corrected.

[bloodline]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i like the new mbps, but i really wanted a 12", so i recently bought the final revision 12" alubook.

i can run all my apps well (especially logic rewired to reason), and i have the machine i want to carry around.

You run Logic rewired to Reason on a 12" PB!?!?!?!?! One of the reasons I was not happy about my PB was that trying to do any serious music work ment having to freeze tracks and up the latency to unworkable values... with my MBP's I can run loads of soft synths and effects in Logic and still have plenty of CPU left for other software like Reason... all running realtime. I used to have to use a dual core G5 PowerMac for stuff like that... now I can do the whole thing on my lap

[iREZ]

correct me if im wrong but wasnt it only time consuming to program a universal app after the app is already made for ppc? ie. programs already made for ppc would take a while to convert to universal apps where as creating a new universal app took only a lil longer to create as oppose to a ppc app, kinda how adobe released cs3 instead of updating cs2.

just curious thats all...

[foo2]

Originally Posted by iREZ 

correct me if im wrong but wasnt it only time consuming to program a universal app after the app is already made for ppc? ie. programs already made for ppc would take a while to convert to universal apps where as creating a new universal app took only a lil longer to create as oppose to a ppc app, kinda how adobe released cs3 instead of updating cs2.

just curious thats all...

Regardless of what Apple marketing would like you to believe, coding a non-trivial application so it works (well) in both PPC and X86 takes considerable time and effort. Particularly the CPU-intensive tasks will require extensive optimization and developer/coder time.

If it's "Hello, World", yes, xcode can do that easily. If it's more than that, it can take time and $$$. And don't forget developer testing, beta testing, and user testing - all of which adds more time and $$$.

[zaghahzag]

for basic cocoa or carbon based apps that are written strictly lin C, C++ or objC, it should be a recompile. For apps like photoshop which undoubtedly have tons of optimization for the CPUs, it's a whole giant amount of work. Of course, they should have all those optimizations already worked out for intel chips...

so for 95% of applications, doing intel and PPC versions is as hard as selecting a checkbox. I'm not sure about debugging though. Does anyone here know if there are a lot of intel specific bugs?

zg

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by bloodline 

You run Logic rewired to Reason on a 12" PB!?!?!?!?! One of the reasons I was not happy about my PB was that trying to do any serious music work ment having to freeze tracks and up the latency to unworkable values... with my MBP's I can run loads of soft synths and effects in Logic and still have plenty of CPU left for other software like Reason... all running realtime. I used to have to use a dual core G5 PowerMac for stuff like that... now I can do the whole thing on my lap

i did this on a revC 12", sometimes not so well. on the revD, it's all good (slightly faster processor, faster hd); but bear in mind i am doing all my music in reason, and only vocals (and some guitar in logic); when i am stationary, i use an external drive also.

i DO close all other apps, and usually turn off airport as well...


but yeah, works for me (and i love the 12" pb)!

[cbrfanatic]

[QUOTE=frankt1950;3254393]

Originally Posted by cbrfanatic 

......dang, no compliments on my dock, lol.

Ok, I'll try. How about some screen shots of those applications actually running? I can put all those icons in my dock.