[freudling]

Originally Posted by Simon 

That's a crude distortion of what I said. And the use of a strawman underlines that. The iPhone offered radical amounts of extra value. The iPhone didn't compete with other Macs.

So if you're interested in discussing actual features and market response let me know. But I'm not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.

I have done nothing of the sort. You are the one who discounts the features predicted in relation to a $1000 price point that you, and, a few others, have predicted.

The point about the iPhone is that, the multi-touch is what really sets it apart. It's what makes all the magic of the iPhone possible. It's what adds most of the extra value. Steve made it clear. Physical keyboards don't change from app-to-app. But a screen with a real operating system does. And the multi-touch operating system on the iPhone was plucked from the Tablet project. The value of that system has thus already been established: people are taking to it in large quantities. For starters, this has positive implications for the upcoming tablet.

As for the Tablet competing with other Macs, again, I don't think you are seeing it. You admitted that you sort of see this whole new computing paradigm thing. That is exactly what this is. And I have been clear: the tablet will not erase the laptop market. This is a totally new market. Just like my eReader won't take away my need for my Mac. And I know that the tablet will have many more features than a standard eReader.

But people will use the tablet for very specific purposes, like reading and being entertained. They will still use their laptops/desktops for inputting larger amounts of information/at work, etc. For starters, the screen on this is less than 11". That's not big enough for most professional environments/applications.

The tablet per sey, the form factor, the multi-touch interface, that's the value.

Couple multi-touch optimized newspaper and magazine subscriptions, and you can begin to see what value this really is.

It's happening Simon, whether you believe it or not. I am totally ok with putting all this in a public forum, and eating my words if what I am saying does not come to be. Let's check back in a year and see how the tablet is doing.

[dedalus]

Originally Posted by Krusty 

Sorry, but I have to vote for something MUCH more earth shattering than this. I think it will have all the things you mention (virtual keyboard, etc) but probably much, much more as well. Do you all remember SJ demo of the multi-touch capabilities of the iphone upon first introduction ? We're all quite used to it now, it's second nature ... but it really was breathtaking when we all first saw it (and the moniker "Jesus phone" came about soon after).

Here's my 2 cents: What technologies has apple brought to the fore in some recent releases ? Facial recognition in iPhoto, voice recognition for commands in the iPhone.

How bout a tablet that recognizes you when it sees you or hears you. Switches to your appropriate user space (and blacks out for unrecognized faces unless you have an activated "guest" account for your table). How bout telling your tablet what to do in addition to an on screen keyboard. How about a tablet device that can turn in to a pure keyboard while it displays your content on any monitor of your choosing (or television, or projector). Basically, you'd be carrying around your "cpu" that you could mate with a monitor at work, a TV screen at home, etc. but could also use standalone and use it's own display. I picture a device more intensely personal than just a standard laptop with traditional user spaces.

Seriously, I don't know what this device will be but I'm expecting a type of interaction that blows us away even more than the iPhone did. Something other-worldly. I just can't see Apple entering the tablet space without bringing something completely outrageous to the table such that there is a clear reason for people to choose it over tablet offerings from the PC side. Apple has only a minor market share in computers but they seem to have a great ability to take specialty devices and make something so nutty and so far ahead that they rapidly dominate that space.

Hear, hear.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I have done nothing of the sort. You are the one who discounts the features predicted in relation to a $1000 price point that you, and, a few others, have predicted.

Can you stop doing this? This bickering is really grating.

I took the features you listed and commented that I see nothing groundbreaking there to justify charging ~ the same as a full blown 13" MBP. And based on that I say that either the features or the price of the actual product will have to be different in order for the device to be the type of success the iPhone was. Nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to disagree, but target the logic, not the poster.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Can you stop doing this? This bickering is really grating.

I took the features you listed and commented that I see nothing groundbreaking there to justify charging ~ the same as a full blown 13" MBP. And based on that I say that either the features or the price of the actual product will have to be different in order for the device to be the type of success the iPhone was. Nothing more, nothing less. Feel free to disagree, but target the logic, not the poster.

Hi Simon:

I don't think this is bickering at all. I am trying to communicate with you on this. And I think that you just don't see what others are seeing.

The logic is this: the opportunities... the value of this device, over and above the iPhone and MBP, is both the form factor and the multi-touch OS. It will give people new opportunities to compute. This specifically refers to reading and being entertained. And this has the power to raise from the dead magazine and newspaper subscriptions. Apple can shake yet another industry. The fact that Apple has done this with music and movie rentals... it's logical to infer they can do the same with this. There are indicators...

For the rest of us, what's groundbreaking is custom, power efficient ARM chips designed right within Apple; a full-scale multi-touch OS; a tablet form factor...

Time will tell Simon, we'll come back and revisit.

dedadlus

Nice!!! The Knowledge Navigator. That hasn't even come up much at all, not here or in the media. To those not in the know, the Knowledge Navigator was a concept device by Apple. It's a tablet computer that folds like a book. John Sculley issued the order in 1986 to make the video of this concept device, which he partly had a hand in thinking up.

Audiences of the video, when it circulated in 1987, raved over the device. They all wondered where they could get one. When told it was just a concept, they were disappointed. This gave Apple the motivation to pursue a tablet like, handheld project as in Newton. But Newton ended up getting scaled down and became a PDA. Although the last generation Newtons are a bit of a crossover between a PDA and a Tablet.

The Knowledge Navigator is incredible, it's utility is clear. It has multi-touch; speech; VOIP; network connectivity with screensharing and the like; and, an intelligent agent ready to serve and mine for data.

An interesting note. The film is depicted to be in 2011. So Apple is about 1 year ahead of Sculley's/Apple's prediction of a full-scale tablet. How much of the Knowledge Navigator's features Apple's new Tablet has remains to be seen. But given all the information we have, it will come close. The only thing the Knowledge Navigator, I think, will best the new Tablet is with its artificial intelligence.

[freudling]

I read the other day that the 4G iPhone may have a magic mouse-like skin on the back. This would allow the user to input multi-touch without touching the screen. How brilliant. I did some testing with this on my iPhone: I pretended that the back was a magic mouse skin. This increases the efficiency of interacting with the device, and helps keep the fingers off the screen. It is also very, very comfortable, because your hands sort of stay in one position, and you don't have to keep switching hand positions from back to front to do touch inputs.

I am 99% certain that Apple has built a magic mouse skin on the back of the tablet. I did some testing with a tablet I have, pretending that the back was a magic mouse skin. It was so much more comfortable to input simple gestures in this way, like forward/backward surfing the web, up and down for scrolling, and the like.

The combination of a multi-touch back and front seems like a no brainer. This backing on the tablet will have solved much of the ergonomic/comfort issues with the tablet form factor. Here is some supporting evidence (information unverified):

"Today, by doing casual research on “back side touch” keywords, I found a very interesting 2007 patent filing by Apple:

force-sensitive back-side interface

The patent is credited to Apple engineer John Elias. This guy is the founder of Fingerworks.com, a company dedicated to develop devices than can be controlled by gestures. Apple hired him 5 years ago, and surprise! the website has been shut down this week…
Timing is perfect for a 27 January presentation, isn'it?
http://aeroquartet.com/blog/"

[slugslugslug]

Have you been reading this thread? I suggested that a page or 2 back. (though I hadn't dug up the 2007 patent yet, just vaguely remembered having seen it…)

[freudling]

slugslugslug:

I just thought of a new use for the tablet: a serving platter. Imagine if it had some sort of field that could allow drinks and food to hover over it's screen, and keep them in position. Then, we could use our tablets to serve people food and drinks at home. Ya! Sadly, there is no patent for this that I can find.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Raising the ante: cash for Apple tablet leaks.



Valleywag Offers Questionably Legal $100,000 Apple Tablet Bounty - Mac Rumors

Now even Apple confirmed they are indeed working on the tablet.

Apple Lawyers Strike Back at Valleywag Over Tablet Bounty - Mac Rumors

Those Valleywag guys are smart. They never intended on paying a single Dollar. They knew they'd force Apple legal to do something. Meanwhile they were getting a lot of free publicity. They're quite funny too, declaring Apple's counsel the first "winner" of their contest.

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Now even Apple confirmed they are indeed working on the tablet.

Nah, they are just doing that to deflect our attention away from what they are really working on...the first mass produced flying car with the updated Time Machine software that will actually do back in time if you are late to your destination. You heard it here first...

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I just thought of a new use for the tablet: a serving platter. Imagine if it had some sort of field that could allow drinks and food to hover over it's screen, and keep them in position. Then, we could use our tablets to serve people food and drinks at home. Ya! Sadly, there is no patent for this that I can find.

Dude, you better patent it now, before one of these forum vultures do! Then you can license it to Apple and live out your days in the lap of luxury.

[olePigeon]

freudling, how about LCD coasters that measure the temperature and volume of your drink, can tell what kind of drink it is, recommend complementary eats, and can tell you how many drinks you've had.

[Love Calm Quiet]

@Freudling:
I think your feature list is right in ballpark. Note that the Bluetooth means that it *does* have a kb - any time it's in range of Apple wireless kb/mouse.
One thing missing (about which we will *all* be clueless for another 11 days: (God-willing) the next quantum leap in software/user-interface -- something like the dual-touch / leap-frog beyond existing book-readers, etc.
Trying not to get my hopes up, but I have: Apple hardware advances have really only taken the world by storm when they've been married to software finesse.

:: Now back to work & forgetting about iTablets for next 11 days ::

[mattyb]

This device has been hyped up so much that disappointment is assured.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet 

@Freudling:
I think your feature list is right in ballpark. Note that the Bluetooth means that it *does* have a kb - any time it's in range of Apple wireless kb/mouse.
One thing missing (about which we will *all* be clueless for another 11 days: (God-willing) the next quantum leap in software/user-interface -- something like the dual-touch / leap-frog beyond existing book-readers, etc.
Trying not to get my hopes up, but I have: Apple hardware advances have really only taken the world by storm when they've been married to software finesse.

:: Now back to work & forgetting about iTablets for next 11 days ::

Thanks for chiming in, Love Calm Quiet. Ya, I did leave out the dual touch, but recent literature makes me think that that will be an essential feature on this device. As you can see from above posts, I went ahead and did my own testing, emulating a dual-touch interface (both on the back and front of the device). After that testing, to me, the dual-touch interface is a 'must' for their tablet. So, let's add a magic mouse-like skin to the back of the device. I am 99% certain now that it will be on the back of the tablet. Maybe the magic mouse itself is just an offshoot of that surface that's on the back. It would play into my unibody, white, polycarbonate casing prediction.

And to those who have raised the question of whether the surface of the magic mouse will stand up to the rigours of daily use. It's all in the design. The way I think Apple will protect the magic mouse skin on the back is through rubber.

Here is what I think the design will be. We will get a design very similar to the back of the iPhone: it rounds from the corners, up. That is, it gets thicker from the edges toward the centre-back. Apple could infuse a frame of magic mouse skin where the fingers will be on the back of the device (all four sides will be framed with a magic mouse-skin). Just after this frame, will be the thickest point of the back. In this way, the magic mouse skin never rests on the surface when placed down on flat surfaces, because it is just slightly lower than the rest of the back. At the centre of the back, there will be rubber. This will mitigate sliding off of flat surfaces.

But in no way do I think this will be a giant iPod Touch. It's going to look different.

[Wiskedjak]

I played with the equivalent of dual-touch on a prototype tablet (not from Apple) a few years ago. This was produced by a company at a technology conference that wanted to sell the technology to computer manufacturers. The device it was being demoed was quite clunky, but the experience was still very nice. I'm certain that the experience delivered from Apple would be quite amazing.

[freudling]

Wiskedjak:

That's really great. It's good to hear that you liked that experience. And it's cool that you got to try it out.

[Eug]

Behind Apple's iron curtain - The Globe and Mail

[Simon]

Meh.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Now even Apple confirmed they are indeed working on the tablet.

Apple Lawyers Strike Back at Valleywag Over Tablet Bounty - Mac Rumors

Those Valleywag guys are smart. They never intended on paying a single Dollar. They new they'd force Apple legal to do something. Meanwhile they were getting a lot of free publicity. They're quite funny too, declaring Apple's counsel the first "winner" of their contest.

It's kinda clever, but, I mean, we're a week or two out from the announcement. Did anyone really doubt it's existence? I'd have been way more impressed had they tried (and succeeded) at this way back in September or thereabouts.

[slugslugslug]

It's on: Apple holding January 27th event to show off its 'latest creation' -- Engadget



Cue speculation on what the text and paint spatters represent.

FWIW, the “latest creation” part definitely means to me that it is in fact, a new hardware line, not a Mac, iPod, or iPhone.

[imitchellg5]

Apple is unveiling a new member of the iLife family called Splattered Paint to compete with Microsoft Paint.
Okay, I'll man up and admit that I open Windows 7 in VMware just to play with Paint.

[ort888]

Watch them release something other then the tablet. Something like a new painting application to go with the iWork suite. That would be hilarious.

I think the tech communities collective head would explode.

(EDIT: or I could read the post above mine... but that would be hard)

[The Final Dakar]

I think the internet would crash if they unveiled something other than a tablet.

[ort888]

How many years have their been rumors of this stupid tablet anyway? 5 or 6?

[ajprice]

Paint splatter? 'Creation'? I'm now more hopeful of somekind of Cintiq-ness to it.

[The Final Dakar]

I'm not die hard, so I didn't notice them til the past year or so, in the wake of the netbook rumors.

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Watch them release something other then the tablet. Something like a new painting application to go with the iWork suite. That would be hilarious.

I'm hoping for this...





















... I'm looking to buy some Apple stock cheap.

[lpkmckenna]

"Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Theater in San Francisco." Interesting location.

No one was expecting artwork as an element of the tablet. Apple surprises us all again!

[mdc]

I think regardless of whatever Apple releases -- no matter how amazing it is -- if it isn't a tablet riots will ensue. Like when they have a great keynote at WWDC or MacWorld but it isn't everything that the rumors have made up and people freak out.

I also think that that "latest creation" means a brand new product. Always exciting.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

"Yerba Buena Center for the Arts Theater in San Francisco." Interesting location.

No one was expecting artwork as an element of the tablet. Apple surprises us all again!

They've had press events here before. Not really indicative of anything.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Watch them release something other then the tablet.
...
I think the tech communities collective head would explode.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I think the internet would crash if they unveiled something other than a tablet.

Originally Posted by mdc 

I think regardless of whatever Apple releases -- no matter how amazing it is -- if it isn't a tablet riots will ensue.

[Simon]

It's a bit like High Energy Physics. If LHC doesn't find Higgs physics will become much more interesting. Likewise if Apple doesn't release the tablet everyone is expecting, we might be in for far more excitement (and some acts of ritual suicide of course).

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I think regardless of whatever Apple releases -- no matter how amazing it is -- if it isn't a tablet riots will ensue.

More than riots, the share price would take such a dive that apples directors would be leaving themselves open to substatial action form major shareholders for malpractice. If Apple were not going to unveil a tablet they would have had to have leaked enough rumours into the wild to counteract any charges against them.

While Apples lack of communication is usual for them, in this case the potential disaster awaiting the non arrival of a tablet would have to force their hand, even if only a little.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Simon 

It's a bit like High Energy Physics. If LHC doesn't find Higgs physics will become much more interesting. Likewise if Apple doesn't release the tablet everyone is expecting, we might be in for far more excitement (and some acts of ritual suicide of course).

It'll be the TV with built-in internet that was hinted at a few years ago.

[Doc HM]

I'm still confused by the central problem of network connectivity. A tablet that can't connect to the internet for email, web etc is to crippled to work and while wireless connection is a no brainer it still needs to connect when out and about. This would seem to mean 3G. But I already pay per month on my iPhone. Another monthly payment for my tablet is pushing it.

I can see the cell carriers offering subsidised tablets in the way that they now offer "free" laptops but it's still two data plans. I'd love it if they allowed you to run it off your iPhone data plan, but judging how the cellco's treat iPhone tethering they are going to be looking to gouge hard on any tablet data plans.

How Apple resolved this is going to be key to the success of the tablet.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by Simon 

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1341.jpg

I missed that one. haha. It's so perfect!

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

I'm still confused by the central problem of network connectivity. A tablet that can't connect to the internet for email, web etc is to crippled to work and while wireless connection is a no brainer it still needs to connect when out and about. This would seem to mean 3G. But I already pay per month on my iPhone. Another monthly payment for my tablet is pushing it.

I can see the cell carriers offering subsidised tablets in the way that they now offer "free" laptops but it's still two data plans. I'd love it if they allowed you to run it off your iPhone data plan, but judging how the cellco's treat iPhone tethering they are going to be looking to gouge hard on any tablet data plans.

How Apple resolved this is going to be key to the success of the tablet.

I agree.
I do not have one but I have used an iPod touch and when you're around wifi it's great since it's an iPhone sans the phone, but when you're away from wifi I find it a little like a computer without internet. It's great, but you get bored of it quickly, and all you want to do is browse the web.

If the tablet has some sort of network connectivity price will sway me.
It'll depend on how I am sold on the tablet and if I feel that I'll use it enough to pay another $x a month for constant connectivity. For all I know I might only use it on the subway, flights, and at home. Times when either there is no way for the connectivity to work or where I'll have wifi.

We'll see next week.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I missed that one. haha. It's so perfect!



I agree.
I do not have one but I have used an iPod touch and when you're around wifi it's great since it's an iPhone sans the phone, but when you're away from wifi I find it a little like a computer without internet. It's great, but you get bored of it quickly, and all you want to do is browse the web.

I've found the Touch is great for traveling. Since cell phone transmission aren't allowed on airplanes anyway, it's perfect for games and watching TV/movies. If I want internet in airports it's usually pay-per-use so I'm tethering my Blackberry to my laptop anyway.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

More than riots, the share price would take such a dive that apples directors would be leaving themselves open to substatial action form major shareholders for malpractice. If Apple were not going to unveil a tablet they would have had to have leaked enough rumours into the wild to counteract any charges against them.

While Apples lack of communication is usual for them, in this case the potential disaster awaiting the non arrival of a tablet would have to force their hand, even if only a little.

Apple stocks will go down anyway. They always do after Apple unveils anything that isn't a golden unicorn that poops rainbows with pots of cash at the end.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I've found the Touch is great for traveling. Since cell phone transmission aren't allowed on airplanes anyway, it's perfect for games and watching TV/movies. If I want internet in airports it's usually pay-per-use so I'm tethering my Blackberry to my laptop anyway.

You have a good point.
I flew from JFK to Johannesburg and then to Cape Town (and back) over the past two weeks and on all of the flights they told me to actually turn off my iPhone. Airplane mode wasn't good enough. They said that iPod touches were okay, but iPhones could not be on.
This is the first time I've been asked to turn off my iPhone so I assume this has to do with the December 25th attack.
If this is how it's going to be on flights from now on maybe it'll be good if there isn't any sort of 3G network connectivity on the tablet

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mdc 

I flew from JFK to Johannesburg and then to Cape Town (and back) over the past two weeks and on all of the flights they told me to actually turn off my iPhone. Airplane mode wasn't good enough. They said that iPod touches were okay, but iPhones could not be on.

That's probably because they're idiots. Or rather, some of your fellow plane passengers are idiots.

Airplane mode is perfectly fine, but many passengers won't properly activate it, either because they're stupid or because they're asses, and so the airline simply says iPhones need to be completely turned off. I had the same problem once with my Sony Ericsson phone, which also had airplane mode.

Mind you, at first glance an iPhone looks just like an iPod touch, so I betcha many stewardesses wouldn't know any better, esp. if you put it in your pocket anyway.

[ort888]

The only thing that could "wow" me about the tablet is price.

$500 or less and I might be interested. Anything more and fergit it.

(It's gonna be a fergit it)

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's probably because they're idiots. Or rather, some of your fellow plane passengers are idiots.

Airplane mode is perfectly fine, but many passengers won't properly activate it, either because they're stupid or because they're asses, and so the airline simply says iPhones need to be completely turned off. I had the same problem once with my Sony Ericsson phone, which also had airplane mode.

Mind you, at first glance an iPhone looks just like an iPod touch, so I betcha many stewardesses wouldn't know any better, esp. if you put it in your pocket anyway.

Except if you fly RyanAir, where they also demand that you turn off your iPod. (Or at least they have, both times I’ve flown with them, even though both times it was an iPod Shuffle which doesn’t have any kind of non-wired connectivity capabilities)

[freudling]

So this is for real. It's 99.95% confirmed. Apple is releasing a Tablet Computer. This is a day that has been in the works for many years. And if you are like me, I've been wanting this day to come for quite some time. Yes, I have a life, but this tablet should make my life easier.

I can't wait to see multi-touch iLife 10, if that is what they are going to do with it. I think the paint splatters in Apple's event advertisement represent a few things. First, creativity. This is something to create things on. An artist's sketch pad, a painter's canvas. It also represents Apple sort of painting the town red. Rebels. This device is a total departure from the status quo. Be daring. That they weren't afraid to colour outside the lines.

I predict a Steve Jobs who is very confident. They've been working on this for so, so long. Way longer than the iPhone. This thing is going to blow us away and I have never said that before about any of Apple's to-be-released products. I have studied tablet computers in depth and followed closely for many years both Apple's and other companies' developments. The patent applications alone from Apple on this device are groundbreaking. It's going to house a boatload of innovation, like the iPhone, but even more.

And Apple has really been riding the hype on this. They really want the hype. It's because they are confident, they know they have something great. I don't know of any other device that has been more hyped than this tablet. People are going to start blowing veins if Apple doesn't show us soon.

Imagine if they cancelled the event, and postponed it 7 months? Ha!

[Chuckit]

It's weird, because I always thought Apple's tablet computer was called the "iPhone."

[slugslugslug]

Oh come on, Chuckit, let the man have his dramatic moment…

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's weird, because I always thought Apple's tablet computer was called the "iPhone."

Wow, nice baiting, Chuck.

-t

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Wow, nice baiting, Chuck.

-t

He's a master at it.

But seriously folks, I think Apple's "tablet" will also replace netbooks, eReaders, PDAs, iPods, iPhones, iTouches, Nintendos, PSPs, and toilet paper (OK, maybe not the last one), but it will be magical.

And pricey. $699 or higher. (my uneducated guess).

It has to be expensive. It's Apple!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

He's a master at it.

But seriously folks, I think Apple's "tablet" will also replace netbooks, eReaders, PDAs, iPods, iPhones, iTouches, Nintendos, PSPs, and toilet paper (OK, maybe not the last one), but it will be magical.

And pricey. $699 or higher. (my uneducated guess).

It has to be expensive. It's Apple!

It will no doubt be amazing, but it can't possibly replace netbooks. One of the defining features of netbooks is low cost.

[imitchellg5]

I don't think it'll be able to be classified as a netbook or, conversely, an ebook reader.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It will no doubt be amazing, but it can't possibly replace netbooks. One of the defining features of netbooks is low cost.

Yes, up till 1-27-10.