[sodamnregistered2]

My dual G5 went to Apple today. More then likely, one or both of the CPUs are messed up. The Genius estimated/guessed that a single 2GHz CPU would be about $500. My warranty just ended a few weeks ago, so, I'm stuck with the bill.

Should I pay to fix the G5 and then sell it, or should I sell it broken? What would a junked dual 2GHz fetch on e-bay? WOuld it sell broken, or would it be better to have Apple fix it, and then sell it as a working unit?

I'm prolly gonna get out of Macs, so I just want to sell my G5, Powerbook and get whatever I can for all of my software.

I've been using Macs since the IIci, so, this is a sad, but liberating day.

[reader50]

I have a IIci on the shelf, but not a G5. Is there a particular reason why you are leaving?

Sorry, no idea on which sales method would bring in the most dough.

[Big Mac]

I'll start the bidding for all of your hardware and software: $100. This is the first time I've heard of two dead processors just after the expiration of AppleCare. I smell a troll.

[sodamnregistered2]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I'll start the bidding for all of your hardware and software: $100. This is the first time I've heard of two dead processors just after the expiration of AppleCare. I smell a troll.

I've been lurking in here for 2 years just to troll you?

I do not know that it is both processors and if you read my post, you would see that. I think one is definately toast though based on what I saw during a verbose boot.

Basically I'm a one person design shop, I'm tired or supporting 2 platforms and I've had three problems with this G5 in a 13 months, each time as I'm getting ready to do a lot of work. I can't keep calling clients and telling them my Mac is dead in the water. This week my client wanted to do 3d stuff. My powerbook could do it, but I can't subject a paying client to sit over my shoulder while my single 1GHz Powerbook chugs away at a preview render.

1. I had a hard drive freak out with some extended extents error or something like that. I was just flat lucky that my Apple store just received their first shipment of Diskwarrior that day.

2. The video card died. ATI9600 I think it is.

3. This latest problem, a potentially fried CPU.

Mostly, I can scratch build for cheap and troubleshoot Windows computers. With my Macs I'm at the mercy of my Apple store. I like Macs, been using them for a long time, but, I just can't justify the hardware expense anymore, and supporting software on 2 platforms as well.

FWIW, I've decided to fix the G5, finish this one project and then liquidate. Not sure what's so troll about that, but, ok.

[sodamnregistered2]

Originally posted by reader50:
I have a IIci on the shelf, but not a G5.

I have a 9500/132 with a Newer G3/400 card in the closet. It has 392MB of very expensive ram in it...

[tooki]

You may just have had bad luck with that G5. As it is, the statistics are that you will have more trouble with PCs than you will with Macs, what with unresponsive vendors, cheaper parts (if you think Dell's quality is near Apple's, you've got something coming...) or no support if you build the thing yourself, compatibility problems with components... the list goes on and on.

None of the problems you mentioned are really specific to Apple products. PC disks get corrupted all the time, far more frequently than on the Mac. An ATI graphics card was made by ATI, whether it be on the Mac or PC. A CPU dying just happens now and then. It's rare, and you likely won't encounter it again.

tooki

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by tooki:
You may just have had bad luck with that G5. As it is, the statistics are that you will have more trouble with PCs than you will with Macs, what with unresponsive vendors, cheaper parts (if you think Dell's quality is near Apple's, you've got something coming...) or no support if you build the thing yourself, compatibility problems with components... the list goes on and on.

Originally posted by mkbhatia:
Well, we're getting a Dell. (There I said it.). Mostly for the support/reliability. They provide 24x7 4-hour response time for like $300 for 3 years. Plus their machines are reliable as hell.

[sodamnregistered2]

Originally posted by tooki:
You may just have had bad luck with that G5. As it is, the statistics are that you will have more trouble with PCs than you will with Macs, what with unresponsive vendors, cheaper parts (if you think Dell's quality is near Apple's, you've got something coming...) or no support if you build the thing yourself, compatibility problems with components... the list goes on and on.

None of the problems you mentioned are really specific to Apple products. PC disks get corrupted all the time, far more frequently than on the Mac. An ATI graphics card was made by ATI, whether it be on the Mac or PC. A CPU dying just happens now and then. It's rare, and you likely won't encounter it again.

I can build and troubleshoot my own PCs. No biggie. No fears of incompatibility, I can figure all that out.

I mostly listed what went wrong so that BigMac would see that I had actual problems so he could get off his "troll" stool.

Truth is, Apples are not built/designed like they were a few years ago, and when they do break, it's harder for me to fix since I can't run to Fry's or whatever and just buy something and get back to work. To add insult, I have to pay $75 just to have Apple tell me my CPU is dead. Great.

My dual G5 is out of action until sometime next week, but the case sure is pretty.

Yeah, I'm venting a little, but I've been in bed with Apple for longer than BigMac has prolly been alive. I was there for the mega evil 7.5.x OS, the change to PowerPC, the not ready for prime time OSX, and now the expensive hardware that fails. I've never heard of a CPU failing, and even if they did, I think Intel has a 3 year warranty with their retail units. IBM apparently has no such thing.

Apple is great, iPods rule, Apple makes computers interesting, OS X is nice and advanced, but at this point, I'm not sure they are the best for my pro needs, that's all. I write this, just so someone in my position, thinking about making the switch has an alternative opinion.

[sodamnregistered2]

It's about power. With Apple, I had to go to the Mall, yuck, hangout at the genius bar for an hour, just to have them tell me it's a hardware problem, which I already knew, and then to send it off and the bill starts at $75 just for them to diagnose it.

I'm no fan of Dell desktops, especially since I can build my own desktops, but I like my Dell laptops.

$1700 for a 3GHz hyperthreading laptop, a 1600x1200 res screen and a 3 year warranty. My Powerbook was $2000 for a 1GHz G4, a 1280x854 screen and a 1 year warranty. It adds up after a while, that's all.

Macs do have one distinct advantage, when I go to sell, they are a known quantity with a rabid fan base, so, in general, they are easier to sell on e-bay.

[tooki]

Originally posted by sodamnregistered2:
I've never heard of a CPU failing, and even if they did, I think Intel has a 3 year warranty with their retail units. IBM apparently has no such thing.

CPU failure is absolutely nothing new. It's not terribly common, but it does happen. I've seen it on a number of computers, both Mac and PC.

Intel does indeed offer 3 year warranties on retail CPUs. No PC maker uses retail CPUs, they buy OEM CPUs, which means that the reseller (e.g. Dell) is solely responsible for warranty fulfillment. Say you get a Dell with just a year warranty. If the CPU in a year-old, out-of-warranty Dell dies, and you call Intel, they'll tell you that Dell and Dell alone is responsible for the warranty, and that you are out of luck.

Apple does the same thing: they buy OEM chips from IBM, and Apple becomes the sole warranty provider.

Note that this same agreement is made for pretty much every component, including the hard drive, RAM, and optical drive. None of the manufacturers of the individual parts will honor the warranty for parts sold as part of a finished computer.

tooki

[sodamnregistered2]

Originally posted by tooki:
Intel does indeed offer 3 year warranties on retail CPUs. No PC maker uses retail CPUs, they buy OEM CPUs, which means that the reseller (e.g. Dell) is solely responsible for warranty fulfillment. Say you get a Dell with just a year warranty. If the CPU in a year-old, out-of-warranty Dell dies, and you call Intel, they'll tell you that Dell and Dell alone is responsible for the warranty, and that you are out of luck.

Apple does the same thing: they buy OEM chips from IBM, and Apple becomes the sole warranty provider.

But I build my own Wintel desktops using retail parts. 3 year on the CPU. 5 years on the video card, whatever on the HDs, the case and power supply are disposable, RAM is lifetime, etc.

I don't even have the option to buy a retail IBM G5 cpu. Whatever Apple sticks in there from this repair, I guess is only a 1 year warranty as well, if any warranty at all is offered.

I only buy laptops from Dell, and always get the 3 year warranty since it's a laptop, and they are just more fragile in general.

I'm sure I'd knock Dell or HP as well. I truly feel bad for people who go to BestBuy or Dell or HP and get a solution for their computing needs. Fortunately, I'm not in that camp.

It's just a fact, there are more PC parts out there, and I am free to buy those parts from Fry's, CompUSA, NewEgg, mWave, wherever. With Apple, I am just stuck with Apple for a power supply failure, for a mobo failure, for a vid card failure, etc.

[Al G]

I know this doesn't help you now, but about $200 for the purchase of AppleCare--before the one year warranty ran out--would have given you another two years of complete warranty coverage plus on-site service (no need to hang out at the mall).

It's been my experience that G5s are a lot more trouble than any previous Apple product and AppleCare is a must-have.

[sodamnregistered2]

Originally posted by Al G:
I know this doesn't help you now, but about $200 for the purchase of AppleCare--before the one year warranty ran out--would have given you another two years of complete warranty coverage plus on-site service (no need to hang out at the mall).

It's been my experience that G5s are a lot more trouble than any previous Apple product and AppleCare is a must-have.

The mall was not a total loss from a girl watching perspective...

Yes, in hindsight, Applecare seems like a good idea. I was hoping to finish my large Feb project, sell the G5, and upgrade to a new one. I already had the video card go bad, and have never had a motherboard or CPU failure and I've been using computers since 8088 and 286 PCs and 20MHz Macs. I had a battery go bad on a mobo once. Hard drives fail, but they are cheap.

It's a risk one takes. Everyone and their uncle wants to sell you an extended warranty. Applecare is $250 for desktops and $350 for notebooks. It's a really sneaky way to jack the price. A $3000 computer becomes a $3250 and you still need to pay tax, add a 2nd drive, and add ram, making the final price around $4000. My plan was to not keep the computers that long and try to stay ahead of Apple's declining reliability by selling the computers before something horrible happens. I lost this time.

My 9500/132 with a Newer G4/400 card has the power supply duct taped in place and still runs like a champ and it's almost 10 years old. Apples used to be very reliable.

I've always had my doubts about the cooling set-up on my dual G5/2GHz anyhow. The 2.5GHz ones are water cooled, I'm thinking the 2.0 runs a little hot for air cooling as well.

Secretly, I'm still hoping that Apple steps up and fixes the thing, gratis. A cpu failure is pretty much unacceptable in my eyes.

[sheer]

Hasn't part of buying a Mac always been they're rock-solid in terms of build quality/components? We still run pre-G3 and Beige tower G3 boxes at work and they're built like battleships, they just keep going.

For me Apple have got to deliver at MWSF not only in bringing the G5 up to par with whatever PC box I could build for a lot less cash but also to sort out these QC issues, because that's what's putting me off dropping 2 grand hard-earned on one.

And when I'm talking QC issues, there are a good number of OSX musicians on OSX music forums who've had noisy PSU or firewire audio interface difficulties with G5's.

[Link]

Originally posted by sodamnregistered2:
The mall was not a total loss from a girl watching perspective...

It's a risk one takes. Everyone and their uncle wants to sell you an extended warranty. Applecare is $250 for desktops and $350 for notebooks. It's a really sneaky way to jack the price. A $3000 computer becomes a $3250 and you still need to pay tax, add a 2nd drive, and add ram, making the final price around $4000. My plan was to not keep the computers that long and try to stay ahead of Apple's declining reliability by selling the computers before something horrible happens. I lost this time.

Yes, but this shouldn't have been a bet to begin with, that sucks

My 9500/132 with a Newer G4/400 card has the power supply duct taped in place and still runs like a champ and it's almost 10 years old. Apples used to be very reliable.

Haha Ghetto repair!!!! Awesome

I've always had my doubts about the cooling set-up on my dual G5/2GHz anyhow. The 2.5GHz ones are water cooled, I'm thinking the 2.0 runs a little hot for air cooling as well.

The cooling system should have been MORE than capable of keeping the machine cool. P4s can run on air cooling, after all.

Secretly, I'm still hoping that Apple steps up and fixes the thing, gratis. A cpu failure is pretty much unacceptable in my eyes.

Me too, I suggest talking with customer relations (ask for it), if you haven't already. They help a lot

My machine's a bit over 3 years old, damn I had a killing of problems with it, finally for a while it behaved great, I figured the sub-daily crashes were just a flaw in the OS or something and never thought about it.

Then one day, after testing a ram stick, I absent mindedly stuck my main stick in the 1st slot, never saw a crash for about 3 weeks (it was in the 2nd slot) -- Wait.. WTF?

Stuck it in the middle slot again, waited a day, BAM it went, KPs?!

That was new!

I put it back in the 1st slot, then eventually got my new ram stick, put that in the 3rd slot, not a single problem. I'm worried that perhaps the 2nd ram slot is somehow damaged between it and the controller, but a new motherboard is $200+, and it MIGHT not be the board, since after I had the 512 (and then sent it in for replacement, wqhoops it was a 64x4 and only 256 was recognized), I went without it for 2 weeks and of course, got lookupd freezes (now THAT is a different problem).

With 768 again, no prob. Weird, well whatever. Annoyingly, I took the machine to apple on two occasions, and not only did they not find that weird problem, but they never realized the geforce 4mx in it was defective and puts out a ton of artifacts on the DVI/ADC interface.

Damn again..

Oh well, that can be swapped for cheap This machine's been more stable than any other 3 year old machine I've had, so

[Al G]

Here's a tip that again, won't help you now, but hopefully will help someone else.

Don't buy AppleCare from Apple! Instead of Apple's $249 price, AppleCare for a PowerMac is easy to find for $189 at some reputable resellers and I have even seen it for as low as $169. (I hope Apple doesn't see this and decide to jack up the price to retailers. They seem to want to put all non-Apple retailers out of business so they can have all the money for themselves.)

[sodamnregistered2]

Well, good news...

When I got the computer, I put a second Seagate 160GB drive in it. Identical model as the OEM drive.

This second drive has failed. When I plug it in, it does not power up.

I'm really miffed that I did not catch this during my trouble shooting. I also don't really understand why a non-spinning drive causes a full blown kernel panic. Seems like it would just not show up on the desktop.

So, I apologize to Apple for ranting about their reliability as I prepare to let Seagate have a full dose now!

Hard drives just suck. I have had several IBM Deskstars, er, Deathstars fail over the years, and now it seems like Seagate drives will fail as well. I even ran the occasional Diskwarrior on it.

No warning. Drive was not acting weird. Drive was not making odd noises. I powered down the computer and went out of town for a week and it just never came back to life.



I'm out $75 for Apple to look at the drive and the Seagate drive is under a 5 year warranty as it is an aftermarket unit, so I got to get an RMA and send it to Seagate.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by sodamnregistered2:
Well, good news...

When I got the computer, I put a second Seagate 160GB drive in it. Identical model as the OEM drive.

This second drive has failed. When I plug it in, it does not power up.

I'm really miffed that I did not catch this during my trouble shooting. I also don't really understand why a non-spinning drive causes a full blown kernel panic. Seems like it would just not show up on the desktop.

So, I apologize to Apple for ranting about their reliability as I prepare to let Seagate have a full dose now!

Hard drives just suck. I have had several IBM Deskstars, er, Deathstars fail over the years, and now it seems like Seagate drives will fail as well. I even ran the occasional Diskwarrior on it.

No warning. Drive was not acting weird. Drive was not making odd noises. I powered down the computer and went out of town for a week and it just never came back to life.



I'm out $75 for Apple to look at the drive and the Seagate drive is under a 5 year warranty as it is an aftermarket unit, so I got to get an RMA and send it to Seagate.

Glad you didn't jump ship... cause Apple is more realiable than PC (on average).

I use Maxtor and Western Digital drives, and have never had a problem. Also IBM/Hitatchi are great.

Also.. for God's sake, nextime get Applecare.

[tooki]

Jeez... you think that every failure you have is a systematic problem.


Guess what? CPUs DO fail. I've seen it many times, with every type of CPU. Will most users have a failed CPU? Probably not. But as a technician, I've seen it plenty of times.

Guess what? Hard drives fail. I've seen it many, many, many times, with every brand of drive. (Western Digital had a few dark years in the mid-late 90s, but they seem to have gotten their act together. Around 2000, IBM had trouble with one model of drive from one factory. That, too, was not a systematic problem.) Most users will have some sort of drive failure, I think, because as mechanical components, they are subject to real wear-and-tear, etc. Anyway, right now, though, I won't even consider buying anything but Seagate. Why? Because only Seagate believes in its products enough to give a 5 year warranty on every internal drive they sell. Every other company only warrants its consumer drives for a year.

Did you try putting the failed hard drive on the other SATA bus, to make sure it's a failed drive and not a failed SATA controller?

Failed drives most definitely can cause crashes, kernel panics, etc. I've seen old Macs that couldn't boot because of a failed floppy drive. Should a failed drive cause such behavior? No. Does it? Yep.

tooki

[Robertk2012]

Originally posted by sodamnregistered2:
I have a 9500/132 with a Newer G3/400 card in the closet. It has 392MB of very expensive ram in it...

Want to sell it?

robert
[email protected]