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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Hello, This is 911 - Don't Bother Calling Us

Hello, This is 911 - Don't Bother Calling Us
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Apr 23, 2017, 03:36 AM
 
No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced), not even black officers, so murders go unsolved.
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OAW
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Apr 23, 2017, 02:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced), not even black officers, so murders go unsolved.
OMG will you just stop with all the PRETENDING please? I mean seriously just do it for yourself if no one else. Because right now you are even further revealing yourself to be the joke most of us around here already know you to be. As our Resident Forum Internet Expert and a supposed "law enforcement officer" (amongst numerous other dubious claims) then you should know that the uniformed officers who PATROL neighborhoods and the detectives who INVESTIGATE murders are two distinct groups of police officers. I'm just going to leave that right there.

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 23, 2017, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
OMG will you just stop with all the PRETENDING please?
Get off my d*ck, shut up, and stick your head back in the sand. If murders go days, or even weeks, before they're discovered, the chance of being able to gather evidence and track down a killer become close to nil. I'd bother to try and educate you on decaying probabilities with relation to elapsed time but you aren't worth it.
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OldManMac
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Apr 23, 2017, 09:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Get off my d*ck, shut up, and stick your head back in the sand. If murders go days, or even weeks, before they're discovered, the chance of being able to gather evidence and track down a killer become close to nil. I'd bother to try and educate you on decaying probabilities with relation to elapsed time but you aren't worth it.
Nails it!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
OAW
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Apr 24, 2017, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Get off my d*ck, shut up, and stick your head back in the sand. If murders go days, or even weeks, before they're discovered, the chance of being able to gather evidence and track down a killer become close to nil. I'd bother to try and educate you on decaying probabilities with relation to elapsed time but you aren't worth it.
Right. Because murders are "discovered" by beat cops on patrol instead of citizens calling 911. Yeah. Ok.

OAW
     
Snow-i
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Apr 24, 2017, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Right. Because murders are "discovered" by beat cops on patrol instead of citizens calling 911. Yeah. Ok.

OAW
I think his point is that citizens don't call 911, and murders can be "undiscovered" (as far as the police are concerned) for quite some time.

If the cops aren't out in the community, there's virtually no chance someone would risk their life by talking to the police. People cannot trust their safety to cops that aren't in the neighborhood. It's a losing proposition to expect high-crime areas to be cooperative at their own peril when the police have little to no presence in the community.

Not to mention, in Chicago you can't even really defend your own life as a law-abiding citizen since the gun laws are insane there and favor the criminals.
     
OAW
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Apr 24, 2017, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I think his point is that citizens don't call 911, and murders can be "undiscovered" (as far as the police are concerned) for quite some time.
.
Not calling 911 on drug dealers? Fair point. Not calling 911 for a dead body in the street? Especially if it's a family member? Not so much. Now not providing the police any info on who did the shooting happens all the time. But that's a different issue.

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 25, 2017, 04:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I think his point is that citizens don't call 911, and murders can be "undiscovered" (as far as the police are concerned) for quite some time.
Exactly. Also, people may call 911, but the patrols refuse to go.
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andi*pandi
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Apr 25, 2017, 10:54 AM
 
That logic is a catch-22... citizens lost faith in the police, don't bother calling 911, and if they do call, police don't respond, so reinforcing citizen distrust?
     
Snow-i
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Apr 25, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Not calling 911 on drug dealers? Fair point. Not calling 911 for a dead body in the street? Especially if it's a family member? Not so much. Now not providing the police any info on who did the shooting happens all the time. But that's a different issue.

OAW
As startling as the reality might be to you, OAW, I have family and a good friend in the police (Oxen hill, MD Hyattsville, MD, and Baltimore City - you'll recognize these places as being amongst the highest violent crime rates in the country). Everything they tell me indicates that yes, often in gang related violence it can be several days to weeks before bodies are found. They usually aren't just "on the street" but in parks, behind dumpsters, construction sites, vacant houses etc.

No one talks or reports because if they are seen cooperating with the police they are putting themselves in mortal peril. Every case? No, but enough of them that it's a major problem.
     
Snow-i
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Apr 25, 2017, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
That logic is a catch-22... citizens lost faith in the police, don't bother calling 911, and if they do call, police don't respond, so reinforcing citizen distrust?
Precisely why we need to change the game altogether. There's no easy answer here.
     
OAW
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Apr 25, 2017, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
As startling as the reality might be to you, OAW, I have family and a good friend in the police (Oxen hill, MD Hyattsville, MD, and Baltimore City - you'll recognize these places as being amongst the highest violent crime rates in the country). Everything they tell me indicates that yes, often in gang related violence it can be several days to weeks before bodies are found. They usually aren't just "on the street" but in parks, behind dumpsters, construction sites, vacant houses etc.
But I'm not disputing that. Naturally if a body is "dumped" somewhere it's not going to get reported until someone finds it. My point is that a police officer driving through the neighborhood on "patrol" is very unlikely to be the one who discovers that body for the very reasons you just specified. Unless there is some sort of incident patrol cops tend not to leave their vehicles.

OAW
     
Chongo
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Apr 25, 2017, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced), not even black officers, so murders go unsolved.
Try having anything delivered. (Pizza or packages) Has Uber or Lyft been sued yet? I know cab companies have been sued for avoiding neighborhoods.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Apr 25, 2017, 07:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced), not even black officers, so murders go unsolved.
This sounds kinda like the Fox News claims you like to repeat about areas of Britain being under Sharia Law.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OAW
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Apr 25, 2017, 08:35 PM
 
^^^

Not to mention the utterly nonsensical nature of the comment itself. In NYC when "Stop & Frisk" was official policy there were more young black men detained in the year 2011 than live in the entirety of NYC itself.

NEW NYCLU REPORT FINDS NYPD STOP-AND-FRISK PRACTICES INEFFECTIVE, REVEALS DEPTH OF RACIAL DISPARITIES | New York Civil Liberties Union

Now think about that for a second. In a single year the NYPD detained what numerically amounts to every ... single ... black male between the ages of 14 - 24 that lived anywhere in NYC ... and then lapped themselves! But despite putting up these kind of numbers someone around here is claiming that cops aren't patrolling black neighborhoods. Now I most definitely call BS on that. You all feel free to reach your own conclusions.

OAW
     
Snow-i
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Apr 25, 2017, 10:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
But I'm not disputing that. Naturally if a body is "dumped" somewhere it's not going to get reported until someone finds it. My point is that a police officer driving through the neighborhood on "patrol" is very unlikely to be the one who discovers that body for the very reasons you just specified. Unless there is some sort of incident patrol cops tend not to leave their vehicles.

OAW
Absolutely you are correct. This is why when the community does not trust the police to keep them safe - at least not to the point where they would be helpful or even report a body if they passed by one, it creates a feedback loop of negativity. That's where problem lies. For the police to be effective, they have to have gained the community's trust. In order to gain the trust, they have to be in the community. Right now in some areas of the US, that's not happening. We need to find a way to make it a positive feedback loop - an onus I believe falls on the police but that requires community cooperation. It will not be quick, and it will not be easy, but it is absolutely possible.
     
Snow-i
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Apr 25, 2017, 11:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^

Not to mention the utterly nonsensical nature of the comment itself. In NYC when "Stop & Frisk" was official policy there were more young black men detained in the year 2011 than live in the entirety of NYC itself.

NEW NYCLU REPORT FINDS NYPD STOP-AND-FRISK PRACTICES INEFFECTIVE, REVEALS DEPTH OF RACIAL DISPARITIES | New York Civil Liberties Union
Stop and frisk is/was utterly unconstitutional. I am ideologically opposed to laws that infringe on the absolute rights outlined in the Constitution thanks to years of judicial encroachment & gymnastics building upon itself. Otherwise known as common law. Common law works, however over time it bloats where precedent begins to become a liability rather than an asset (from the viewpoint of the citizenry).

Aside my ideological opposition, Stop and frisk was just throwing force at a more fundamental problem and expecting it to somehow "whack-a-mole" the problem out of existence. We were a nation founded upon an inherent and natural right not to be oppressed, which the bill of rights articulates. It was a terrible idea, full stop.

Now think about that for a second. In a single year the NYPD detained what numerically amounts to every ... single ... black male between the ages of 14 - 24 that lived anywhere in NYC ... and then lapped themselves! But despite putting up these kind of numbers someone around here is claiming that cops aren't patrolling black neighborhoods. Now I most definitely call BS on that. You all feel free to reach your own conclusions.
Would you agree that cops patrol these neighborhoods differently than other areas?
     
OAW
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Apr 26, 2017, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Stop and frisk is/was utterly unconstitutional. I am ideologically opposed to laws that infringe on the absolute rights outlined in the Constitution thanks to years of judicial encroachment & gymnastics building upon itself. Otherwise known as common law. Common law works, however over time it bloats where precedent begins to become a liability rather than an asset (from the viewpoint of the citizenry).

Aside my ideological opposition, Stop and frisk was just throwing force at a more fundamental problem and expecting it to somehow "whack-a-mole" the problem out of existence. We were a nation founded upon an inherent and natural right not to be oppressed, which the bill of rights articulates. It was a terrible idea, full stop.


Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Would you agree that cops patrol these neighborhoods differently than other areas?
Without question. They tend to patrol them more aggressively than other areas. Hence why we have an entire thread filled with example of black men being detained and/or beaten for "jaywalking" (aka ... not crossing the street at the intersection) and being shot in the back at traffic stops. Stop & Frisk. Etc. In most major urban centers there are areas where the local PD conducts itself like the largest, most heavily armed "gang" on the streets. So this notion that CTP is advocating that black neighborhoods are somehow "cop free zones" is utter and complete BS. Otherwise that "community mistrust" of the police that you spoke about wouldn't exist!

OAW
     
Snow-i
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Apr 27, 2017, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post




Without question. They tend to patrol them more aggressively than other areas. Hence why we have an entire thread filled with example of black men being detained and/or beaten for "jaywalking" (aka ... not crossing the street at the intersection) and being shot in the back at traffic stops. Stop & Frisk. Etc. In most major urban centers there are areas where the local PD conducts itself like the largest, most heavily armed "gang" on the streets. So this notion that CTP is advocating that black neighborhoods are somehow "cop free zones" is utter and complete BS. Otherwise that "community mistrust" of the police that you spoke about wouldn't exist!

OAW
I can see CTP's argument though, even if it is generalized. I also just saw an article (if you don't mind the source)
US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties | Fox News

which sorta goes to the point. Whether or not the cops are patrolling these neighborhoods as frequently, IMO, is irrelevant compared to how they are being patrolled. Whatever they're doing now isn't breaking the cycle. Again, no easy answer here but the status quo ain't doing it.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 27, 2017, 06:14 PM
 
Facts are "utter BS", didn't ya know? The community mistrust is based on anti-cop rhetoric surrounding a statistically microscopic number of shootings (the overwhelming number of those being warranted). Have there been shootings that were unwarranted? For certain, but that's not a "black" thing. If black lives truly mattered to those racial agitators, they'd be much more concerned and vocal about all the homicides being perpetrated in every major city on an hourly basis, rather than constantly deride the people who (until recently) were trying to protect them.

I mean, WTF? You have a single group that makes up only a little over 4% of the population (young African American men) who are committing >40% of this country's murders in 5% of US counties (essentially turning them into war zones), all run by the most "progressive" local governments in their states... which in turn are run by minorities. While doing away with criminalizing drug possession would be a strong step in the right direction, the culture of hostility and aggression in those communities has to change as well. Re. Cops aren't trying to kill black people, other blacks are. Even the initiative to recruit more minority officers has failed, because as soon as they put on a uniform they're seen as White-controlled Uncle Toms. It's an insane problem that I don't see an answer for.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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OAW
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Apr 27, 2017, 06:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I can see CTP's argument though, even if it is generalized. I also just saw an article (if you don't mind the source)
US murders concentrated in 5 percent of counties | Fox News

which sorta goes to the point. Whether or not the cops are patrolling these neighborhoods as frequently, IMO, is irrelevant compared to how they are being patrolled. Whatever they're doing now isn't breaking the cycle. Again, no easy answer here but the status quo ain't doing it.
It's an interesting source but it doesn't speak to the original assertion in the slightest. Nowhere does it say that these counties are being patrolled less. The word "black" isn't mentioned anywhere in the article so we don't know if those particular counties are predominantly black and if so ... what percentage they represent of predominantly black counties across the country. Naturally the comments section is filled with the usual suspects within the Fox News crowd making their typical bigoted statements. But let's leave all that aside. The original and still unsubstantiated assertion was ...

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced), not even black officers, so murders go unsolved.
No my retort was only to point out that patrol officers aren't tasked with "solving murders" ... detectives are. That's not to say that patrol officers don't play a very important role in preserving the crime scene and initiating the the subsequent homicide investigation. They do.

The First Officer Initiates the Homicide Investigation

The first officer who is confronted by the homicide crime scene has a very involved responsibility. Although the formal investigation will be conducted by detectives or the criminal investigator, it is the first officer who has the responsibility of initiating the investigation. I have provided ten practical rules of procedure, which may be used as a guide in initiating a professional homicide investigation.
  1. Arrest the perpetrator if you can determine by direct inquiry or observation that he or she is the suspect. (As a general rule, do not question him or her at this stage.)
  2. Detain all persons present at the scene. 2. Attempt to assess and determine the entire area of the crime scene including paths of entry and exit and any areas that may include evidence.
  3. Isolate the area and protect the scene. Seek assistance if necessary. Notifications must be made to superiors, investigators, and specialized units. (Use crime scene tape)
  4. Refrain from entering the scene and/or disturbing, touching, or using any item found therein. Never use the crime scene as a command post or the telephone as a communications center. In communicating with the station house or headquarters, the first officer should not, unless absolutely necessary, use a telephone instrument at the scene. This necessity should be determined by common sense and priorities. The first officers should instead establish a temporary command post outside the central crime scene, preferably where there are at least two phones available, one for incoming and one for outgoing calls. In the early stages of the investigation, there is a definite need for rapid communication between the various centers of investigation.
  5. Identify and, if possible, retain for questioning the person who first notified the police.
  6. Separate the witnesses so as to obtain independent statements.
  7. Exclude all unauthorized persons from entering the crime scene until the arrival of the investigators. This, of course, includes police officers not directly involved in the crime scene investigation. The detective supervisor and the investigator assigned are, of course, allowed entry into the scene for evaluation purposes. Other unavoidable exceptions may include the medical examiner, or a doctor or clergymen. In any event, establish a pathway in and out so as to avoid unnecessary disturbance.
  8. Keep a chronological log containing the name, shield number, command, and title of any police official who enters; the name, serial number, and hospital of any medical personnel, ambulance driver, or technician; and the names and addresses of any civilians entering the crime scene.
  9. Take notes.
First Officer's Duties at the Homicide Scene

So this really boils down to a simple question. Where is the evidence that when someone is killed in a black neighborhood and 911 is called that patrol officers are loathe to show up and perform the tasks outlined above? Where is the evidence that officers are resigning when assigned to patrol duty in such areas? And if that can be produced then does the evidence suggest that such behavior by patrol officers is found in ALL black neighborhoods ... or only certain ones? Because absent that the dude is just spewing his typical unsubstantiated BS.

OAW
     
OAW
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Apr 27, 2017, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Facts are "utter BS", didn't ya know?
The problem here is that you confuse the "utter BS" you generally spew with these little things we call "facts".

1. It is a DOCUMENTED FACT that the NYPD detained more young black men between the ages of 14 - 24 in a single year than live in all of NYC.
2. You have CLAIMED that "No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced)". With no substantiation whatsoever. As is your usual M.O.

Now I wouldn't want you to strain yourself by utilizing too much common sense in one setting. But you do realize that #1 and #2 can't POSSIBLY both be true at the same damned time right?

Right???

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Apr 27, 2017 at 07:17 PM. )
     
Waragainstsleep
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Apr 27, 2017, 08:49 PM
 
Maybe they stand on the borders between black and white neighbourhoods and lasso the black kids in order to arrest them?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Apr 28, 2017, 09:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
rather than constantly deride the people who (until recently) were trying to protect them.
Yes, the African-American community has a long history of amicable relations with police officers that has only recently broken down.
     
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Apr 28, 2017, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
It's an interesting source but it doesn't speak to the original assertion in the slightest. Nowhere does it say that these counties are being patrolled less. The word "black" isn't mentioned anywhere in the article so we don't know if those particular counties are predominantly black and if so ... what percentage they represent of predominantly black counties across the country. Naturally the comments section is filled with the usual suspects within the Fox News crowd making their typical bigoted statements. But let's leave all that aside. The original and still unsubstantiated assertion was ...
I understand - I'm not interested so much in the original assertion vs moving the discussion forward. We can all agree a problem exists within these communities, and my source is intended to highlight that problem. The article does not mention race, however I'm not sure we need to prove those counties are more than likely over-represented by minorities and under represented economically - unless you feel the need to.


So this really boils down to a simple question. Where is the evidence that when someone is killed in a black neighborhood and 911 is called that patrol officers are loathe to show up and perform the tasks outlined above? Where is the evidence that officers are resigning when assigned to patrol duty in such areas? And if that can be produced then does the evidence suggest that such behavior by patrol officers is found in ALL black neighborhoods ... or only certain ones? Because absent that the dude is just spewing his typical unsubstantiated BS.

OAW
IMO, race isn't a causative factor. The economic status of the neighborhood, which can be correlated to race, is.

You'll see the same types of behaviors in gang dominated areas that aren't necessarily black, but could be hispanic, white, etc etc. I would qualify this by saying that minorities are typically far more likely to live in these areas but as I said above, their race isn't causative.

CTP, OAW, can we try to bridge this gap? You both agree there's a problem, you both have your arguments on the cause of the problem and I'm not sure you'll ever get to a common footing unless we move past that and start talking solutions. I'm no saint here, but I am passionate about this issue and would enjoy it if we could move past the nasty rhetoric and try to get back to intelligent discussion. Who knows, we might all learn something.
     
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Apr 28, 2017, 01:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yes, the African-American community has a long history of amicable relations with police officers that has only recently broken down.
Great point.

IMO, nothing much has really changed in the past few years except that now, with technology being what it is, we get a chance to see it.
     
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Apr 28, 2017, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Great point.

IMO, nothing much has really changed in the past few years except that now, with technology being what it is, we get a chance to see it.
It hasn't shown us anything we didn't see 25 years ago.
     
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Apr 28, 2017, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It hasn't shown us anything we didn't see 25 years ago.
I would say it's much harder now to see what you want to believe - in other words there's far less room for benefit of the doubt. 25 years ago none of this was on video instantly shared across the world - that's my main point.

For instance, the dude is SC murdered from behind while running away. 25 years ago it would be much easier to believe the cop. Not so with the video.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 28, 2017, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I would say it's much harder now to see what you want to believe - in other words there's far less room for benefit of the doubt. 25 years ago none of this was on video instantly shared across the world - that's my main point.

For instance, the dude is SC murdered from behind while running away. 25 years ago it would be much easier to believe the cop. Not so with the video.
Harder isn't the word I'd choose. Yes, video evidence is more common, which I think is your point, but police still lie regardless of video evidence. They even said Freddie Gray wasn't in a chokehold.
     
Snow-i
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Apr 28, 2017, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Harder isn't the word I'd choose. Yes, video evidence is more common, which I think is your point, but police still lie regardless of video evidence. They even said Freddie Gray wasn't in a chokehold.
Agreed - with video now it's much more likely we'll catch them in those lies - that's the difference I am speaking of.

This incident comes to mind:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1701763

Without video, this guy would be in jail right now, and those cops would likely still be respected members of the force.

Even worse, initially, with the video
"An internal investigation into the incident found the officers did nothing wrong."

Eventually the officers were fired and charged with a slew of crimes including aggravated assault, but initially it was covered up. Without the video, this blatant corruption would have gotten to stand and not only would the corrupt cops not have been discovered, an innocent man would be doing jail time right now solely for being the wrong color in the wrong place at the wrong time. He's lucky he didn't get shot.

Things like that are what's changing, as these kind of incidents are far more likely to be discovered & proven today than they were 25 years ago. the more video capable phones we have out there, the more likely it is one of them will catch this kind of corruption and/or exonerate good cops accused of wrongdoing.
     
OAW
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Apr 28, 2017, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Great point.

IMO, nothing much has really changed in the past few years except that now, with technology being what it is, we get a chance to see it.
Bingo!!!! African-Americans have been speaking about these issues for decades now but all too often they were dismissed by many white Americans .... especially but certainly not exclusively among those on the more conservative end of the political spectrum ... as some sort of "mass hallucination". A mere "figment of our collective imagination". Smartphones have made considerable progress in getting past such reflexive denial.

OAW
     
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Apr 28, 2017, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Try having anything delivered. (Pizza or packages) Has Uber or Lyft been sued yet? I know cab companies have been sued for avoiding neighborhoods.
A few years ago I was in Las Vegas, and no cab would take us or pick us up from a bar called Atomic due to the neighborhood it was in.
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Apr 28, 2017, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Bingo!!!! African-Americans have been speaking about these issues for decades now but all too often they were dismissed by many white Americans .... especially but certainly not exclusively among those on the more conservative end of the political spectrum ... as some sort of "mass hallucination". A mere "figment of our collective imagination". Smartphones have made considerable progress in getting past such reflexive denial.

OAW
We still have a long way to go I think another problem is we're taught over and over to automatically respect police, and I think for a lot of people it is hard to reconcile long-held beliefs with such claims.

Cops should absolutely be respected and supported, however I think what America is waking up to is that this respect and support should not be automatic - the police must continue to earn it - something they cannot do while bad, abusive, corrupt etc cops exist within their ranks. A healthy skepticism is needed in all situations, especially within the ranks of the police themselves (where the problem is compounded by a severe lack of that skepticism).

We must honor the good cops, destroy the bad ones.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 30, 2017, 06:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
The problem here is that you confuse the "utter BS" you generally spew with these little things we call "facts".
You've never understood facts, you only care about what builds your failing agenda. It's pathetic.

1. It is a DOCUMENTED FACT that the NYPD detained more young black men between the ages of 14 - 24 in a single year than live in all of NYC.
Stop and frisk is shit, but the real question is, why do you people (Leftists) **** up every US city you control?

2. You have CLAIMED that "No one wants to patrol black communities (they quit when forced)". With no substantiation whatsoever. As is your usual M.O.
Protesters get EXACTLY what they want: Baltimore cops refuse to proactively police as city falls to criminals | BizPac Review

You were saying? Why does voting "Progressive" seem to automatically mark a city for demolition and drive up minority mortality rates?

Now I wouldn't want you to strain yourself by utilizing too much common sense in one setting. But you do realize that #1 and #2 can't POSSIBLY both be true at the same damned time right?

Right???
They can, when cities are run by the Left. Ineffectual intrusions to personal liberties that don't address the actual problems, like how limiting free expression on campuses is actually leading to more discrimination and racial violence.
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Apr 30, 2017 at 06:16 AM. )
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 30, 2017, 06:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yes, the African-American community has a long history of amicable relations with police officers that has only recently broken down.
The AA community went from one extreme to another, from being abused and mistreated one "moment" to being supported, and even coddled, the next. Collectively they've not had the chance to contribute to their own success and build their lives. Overt gov't support drags down a community just as much as racism. In fact, it's a form of prejudice in and of itself, a racism of low expectations. While at the same time destroying black families through the "war on drugs" and making welfare-supported child production an appealing alternative to a spouse. Wanna guess at the percentage of black households being headed by single mothers, at the number of black children who grew up without a father figure?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Apr 30, 2017, 05:59 PM
 
I was saying ....

So this really boils down to a simple question. Where is the evidence that when someone is killed in a black neighborhood and 911 is called that patrol officers are loathe to show up and perform the tasks outlined above? Where is the evidence that officers are resigning when assigned to patrol duty in such areas? And if that can be produced then does the evidence suggest that such behavior by patrol officers is found in ALL black neighborhoods ... or only certain ones? Because absent that the dude is just spewing his typical unsubstantiated BS.
And you responded with a link NOT to any credible studies or official statistics on the matter showing this to be a widespread phenomenon across various geographical areas as was clearly implied by your OP ... but instead to an op-ed written by a talk show host which referenced a single anonymous police officer who called into the Hannity show. Where he talked about how local police fell back and weren't "proactively policing" in the midst of the Baltimore riots in 2015.

And the saddest part is that you are so full of false confidence that you don't even REALIZE just how much of a complete fail this is. Nor why.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Apr 30, 2017 at 09:56 PM. )
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Apr 30, 2017, 10:00 PM
 
Pathetic. Your ideology, your entire worldview, is a failure.
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Laminar
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May 1, 2017, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Wanna guess at the percentage of black households being headed by single mothers, at the number of black children who grew up without a father figure?
I assume you point to this as an issue inherent in African-American culture, one that they have to figure out how to fix on their own?
     
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May 1, 2017, 09:37 PM
 
Its probably rooted in African culture. In some African countries the men keep a wife and a family in each village and wander between them. Many spend a lot more time wandering than sticking around.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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May 1, 2017, 11:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Its probably rooted in African culture. In some African countries the men keep a wife and a family in each village and wander between them. Many spend a lot more time wandering than sticking around.
That's an option?!?!?? I've been doing this whole thing wrong!
     
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May 2, 2017, 06:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
That's an option?!?!?? I've been doing this whole thing wrong!
It is in semi-tribal Africa. There are downsides too. They often involve machetes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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May 2, 2017, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Its probably rooted in African culture. In some African countries the men keep a wife and a family in each village and wander between them. Many spend a lot more time wandering than sticking around.
Are...are you being serious right now?

You're saying that black men are genetically predisposed to being bad fathers? They were cut off from their culture, the slavers made sure of that, so the only thing left is genetics.
     
Waragainstsleep
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May 2, 2017, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Are...are you being serious right now?

You're saying that black men are genetically predisposed to being bad fathers? They were cut off from their culture, the slavers made sure of that, so the only thing left is genetics.
Not exactly. I'm saying there are long established behavioural patterns that can be traced back to the behaviour I mentioned. I'm also saying absent rather than bad. Whether its genetic or cultural I couldn't say.

Its easy enough to see how its self-perpetuating to an extent. Boys without fathers look for male role models, mistake independence and suboptimal treatment of women for strength. Copy and repeat.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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May 2, 2017, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Not exactly. I'm saying there are long established behavioural patterns that can be traced back to the behaviour I mentioned.
It seems like using this argument would make it too easy to slip back to insisting on some kind of genetic inferiority.

I'm also saying absent rather than bad.
The two aren't synonymous. You'd have to be a reeeeally shitty dad to be better off gone.

Its easy enough to see how its self-perpetuating to an extent. Boys without fathers look for male role models, mistake independence and suboptimal treatment of women for strength. Copy and repeat.
But what research are you citing to back up your hypothesis?
     
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May 2, 2017, 03:09 PM
 
I had heard on a Radio 4 programme that absent black fathers was a myth. The Internets seem to agree

Black Fathers: Absent No More - NBC News
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
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May 2, 2017, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I had heard on a Radio 4 programme that absent black fathers was a myth. The Internets seem to agree

Black Fathers: Absent No More - NBC News
Here's the CDC study they're referencing.

Check page 12 - it shows 8.2% of white/single-race fathers living apart from one or more children, 18.3% of Hispanic fathers, and 23.8% of Black or African American fathers living apart from one or more children. Unless I'm reading it wrong?

The study does show that Black/African-American fathers living apart from their kids are more involve in their kids lives, on average, than white fathers living apart from their kids, but that's not what the article's title was suggesting. The numbers seem to show that a black child is three times more likely to grow up without their father living with them. "Absent" black fathers may be more involved than "absent" white fathers, but there still appear to be more absent black fathers.
     
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May 4, 2017, 10:41 AM
 
As someone whos spent a lot of time living in poorer black neighborhoods, I can testify the cops avoid our hoods. Now they technically have to respond to every call (I think). So how they work it is they simply dont show up for 2-3 hours after your call. We had gangs stripping cars in broad daylight in gated apartments. The gangs are comfortable taking their time knowing the cops will take their time. That way the 'danger' is long gone when the cops arrive. In white middle class hoods the cops will be on point if you so much as call to complain that the neighbors dog is barking too much. Or call to complain that a black is jay walking i guess...
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
   
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