[besson3c]

Check this out:

YouTube - Compiz Fusion: A Quick Demonstration

Granted, there are some useless effects in here such as firepaint, water, etc. But there are actually also some really useful and interesting plugs in here, such as the virtual desktop switcher, front-most window changer thing, etc. Let me know what you think about these from a usability standpoint.

Just as an aside, the other thing that is interesting is that when I have tried Beryl in the past, I've always found these animations to be much more responsive than they are under OS X. The dashboard ripple, for instance, always stutters or takes time to start. All of these animations seem quite fluid.

Anyway, interested in a discussion about the usability of some of these ideas in its current or imagined implementation.

[Chuckit]

What system are you using? The dashboard ripple is (pardon the pun) completely fluid on my PowerBook. There's a slight delay before the first widget you drop, but after that, everything is smooth. (I'll comment on the video when I get a minute to actually watch it. That part just struck me as odd.)

[Dakarʒ]

The dashboard ripple is completely dependent on your RAM. After a couple days of use, it'll usually stutter on my iMac.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I like the way they handle spaces.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

What system are you using? The dashboard ripple is (pardon the pun) completely fluid on my PowerBook. There's a slight delay before the first widget you drop, but after that, everything is smooth. (I'll comment on the video when I get a minute to actually watch it. That part just struck me as odd.)

1.25 GHz Powerbook with 1.5 gig RAM (I think - something over a gig).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

The dashboard ripple is completely dependent on your RAM. After a couple days of use, it'll usually stutter on my iMac.

A lot of things seem to slow down over time, but I would think that I have plenty of RAM to negotiate this effect.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I like the way they handle spaces.

Yeah, that struck my eye too... Kind of funny that they went with the Apple-style reflective surface thing while Apple went with something else.

I guess Apple is going for a more spacial thing - up and down as opposed to simply left and right (although it possible that one could arrange a virtual desktop accordingly under Linux/Compiz, I don't know), but it would seem like the reflective surface only seems to make sense with one desktop per row, if that makes sense...

[besson3c]

I wish I could try this stuff out on my Linux Desktop here at work... I have an ATI Radeon X600 which is unsupported

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

A lot of things seem to slow down over time, but I would think that I have plenty of RAM to negotiate this effect.

Check your RAM the next time this happens. My RAM is usually under 100 MB free when this starts occurring.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Here we go again. Linux is great, OS X is crap ya ya ya.

Every OS X effect in Tiger works fine on a 1Ghz G4 with 64MB Geforce 4MX and I don't want my time wasted watching windows go up in flames when I close them.

Compiz and Beryl

How's system wide PDF output on Linux anyway

1.25 GHz Powerbook with 1.5 gig RAM (I think - something over a gig).

Guy doesn't know how much RAM he has. Genius.

[Chuckit]

Well, presumably he isn't at his computer at the moment. I can't remember exactly how much all my setups have either.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Well, presumably he isn't at his computer at the moment. I can't remember exactly how much all my setups have either.

Don't mind Obi Wan. He's just yet another dick-head with a grudge that is best to ignore. He makes SWF look bad!

Yeah, I juggle between four desktop/client PCs and a bunch of servers, so I always get this confused Not to mention keeping track of how much RAM is included in all of the family computers I get stuck with supporting...

[besson3c]

Maybe we should start another thread called "how many computers are you responsible for", or something... Not as a contest, but because I'm wondering how many one person can support

[Dakarʒ]

I'm a single mother raising and supporting four computers on a single paycheck. It's a challenging but rewarding life.

[besson3c]

Dakar3 is a Mom? NO WAY!!

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

... four desktop/client PCs .....so I always get this confused

Keep up with the Linux spam, the insults and faking your credentials.

[besson3c]

whopps.. wrong thread.

[goMac]

It'll be interesting because most of the things Compiz can do will be coming to the Mac by way of CoreAnimation. I've been doing a lot of work in CoreAnimation, but part of me wonders if it will be over-used by Mac programmers.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by goMac 

It'll be interesting because most of the things Compiz can do will be coming to the Mac by way of CoreAnimation. I've been doing a lot of work in CoreAnimation, but part of me wonders if it will be over-used by Mac programmers.

I have no doubt that the capability exists or will exist in CoreAnimation, I'm more interested in how it will be implemented sensibly.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I have no doubt that the capability exists or will exist in CoreAnimation, I'm more interested in how it will be implemented sensibly.

Yeah, and that would be something we'd have to see about at release time. I wish I could get more into the specifics about CoreAnimation's implementation, but again, that's something that will have to wait until release time also. (NDA)

[- - e r i k - -]

Beryl and now Compiz have always been the epitome of useless eye-candy. Sometimes even fugly eye-candy too (rubbery windows make me cringe).

I rate this a 3/5 snoozes:

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Beryl and now Compiz have always been the epitome of useless eye-candy. Sometimes even fugly eye-candy too (rubbery windows make me cringe).

I rate this a 3/5 snoozes:

Like I said, there is definitely some useless stuff in there, but there is some stuff in there that seems no less useful than many of the OS X 3D features. Did you watch the whole thing?

[- - e r i k - -]

Yes I did. I honestly didn't see one feature that improved usability in any way. Are there anything in particular you want to highlight?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Yes I did. I honestly didn't see one feature that improved usability in any way. Are there anything in particular you want to highlight?

nothing except the Exposé clone

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Yes I did. I honestly didn't see one feature that improved usability in any way. Are there anything in particular you want to highlight?

I like the animation that changes the top most window and makes this clear... It's sort of like shuffling a piece of paper from the background to the foreground, so this provides interesting feedback to indicate which window has focus. It might get annoying if there is any sort of stutter though.

I think the ring concept is interesting. It might make doing a cmd + ` to toggle between windows a little easier to get a quick preview of the window you are moving to before releasing the command keys and rearranging window order in the process.

The virtual desktop thing is neat. I do prefer Apple's implementation with Spaces, but this interface would work well if you only arrange your desktops on a horizontal plane (like I might be inclined to do).

Contrast this to OS X... animations I think are useful:

- dock genie
- expose
- fast user switching
- dock bouncing
- Dashboard flip around thing
- sheets

whereas:

- Dashboard ripple effect... useless
- Front Row entry... useless

Apple does pretty well with all of this, but not everything in there is totally necessary either. Keep in mind that all of this Beryl stuff is experimental, nothing has actually made the OS yet, except the wobbly windows and cube (I believe) is available as an experimental optional feature in Ubunty Fiesty Fawn. Perhaps some combination of these experimental features will be incorporated in a useful way. If not, at least the hooks are in place.

To me this is all rather uncharted territory, it is just interesting to talk about this stuff because it seems like we are just starting to see the potential here.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I like the animation that changes the top most window and makes this clear... It's sort of like shuffling a piece of paper from the background to the foreground, so this provides interesting feedback to indicate which window has focus. It might get annoying if there is any sort of stutter though.

I think it would get annoying pretty fast. Notice how it was demonstrated with a small and a large window only. Most my windows are large and cover each other up. When I switch to another window I want instant access to it. Even a small delay of things trying to move out of the way would annoy me pretty quickly. It's akin to the zoom effects of the classic Mac OS. Yes it showed you where the window came from and went to, but the delay it caused was annoying.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think the ring concept is interesting. It might make doing a cmd + ` to toggle between windows a little easier to get a quick preview of the window you are moving to before releasing the command keys and rearranging window order in the process.

But you do get a "preview" of the window you are switching to - except it's a full one and instant

The ring adds nothing to this. We have application exposé that works better when you want to find a particular window. The ring is just another "Flip 3D". All flash and little function.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Contrast this to OS X... animations I think are useful:

- dock genie
- expose
- fast user switching
- dock bouncing
- Dashboard flip around thing
- sheets

whereas:

- Dashboard ripple effect... useless
- Front Row entry... useless

We are in complete agreement here. Except I really appreciate the Front Row entry, as it signifies a "mode change". And it looks really good. I'm sad to see it go in Leopard

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I think it would get annoying pretty fast. Notice how it was demonstrated with a small and a large window only. Most my windows are large and cover each other up. When I switch to another window I want instant access to it. Even a small delay of things trying to move out of the way would annoy me pretty quickly. It's akin to the zoom effects of the classic Mac OS. Yes it showed you where the window came from and went to, but the delay it caused was annoying.

It probably would get annoying if it was OS-wide, but perhaps it might be useful in some applications... Just to give a wild example of something I haven't really thought through: navigating between photo collections and photo albums? I know you are probably going to respond "I like the iPhoto interface, thank you very much", but if we are going to break paradigm and move towards totally new interfaces on new devices such as surfaces and small hand-held devices, perhaps there might be a practical use for something like this in some context which may not be clear to us right now. *shrug* I don't really want to argue about it, I just found it interesting is all.

But you do get a "preview" of the window you are switching to - except it's a full one and instant

But what if you want to make the window you are switching away from immediately behind the one you are switching to? Again, just brainstorming here...

The ring adds nothing to this. We have application exposé that works better when you want to find a particular window. The ring is just another "Flip 3D". All flash and little function.

Linux and Windows are not application centric though. Something like Flip 3D/Ring might be useful in other environments. There was an old proof-of-concept app on the Mac navigating through iTunes albums (I believe) using something like a 3D ring... I can't remember the name of it though.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It probably would get annoying if it was OS-wide, but perhaps it might be useful in some applications... Just to give a wild example of something I haven't really thought through: navigating between photo collections and photo albums? I know you are probably going to respond "I like the iPhoto interface, thank you very much", but if we are going to break paradigm and move towards totally new interfaces on new devices such as surfaces and small hand-held devices, perhaps there might be a practical use for something like this in some context which may not be clear to us right now. *shrug* I don't really want to argue about it, I just found it interesting is all.

I agree. It's good that someone is still investigating new interface concept, and I agree that there might still be some uses for the dodge one.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Linux and Windows are not application centric though.

Hence why we have both Application Exposé and All Windows Exposé.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

There was an old proof-of-concept app on the Mac navigating through iTunes albums (I believe) using something like a 3D ring... I can't remember the name of it though.

CoverFlow RC1.2 - MacUpdate

[besson3c]

No, it wasn't Coverflow, but something much less refined and older... Oh well, doesn't matter.

I also remember the Sun Looking Glass demo which also had a lot of neat stuff, have you ever seen that demo? I should Google it again...


The other useful thing in this Compiz demo was blur inactive windows. This is a sort of interesting depth perception sort of thing, as in real life as we focus on things closer to us things further away become blurry, as you know.

Of course, blurring is hardly high tech stuff, but then again nearly are transparencies, and one company in particular really made transparencies an integral part of their new OS in a rather dumb way *cough* *Vista*. I guess we are still figuring out how to use this stuff.

One other neat thing that somebody brought up in one of the Leopard threads was about vanishing points in 3D perspectives. Perhaps something like this might become useful some day with perhaps a touchscreen virtual bookshelf or something.

[- - e r i k - -]

This one?
MacWarriors 3DOSX

Blurring is interesting, but for me, easy access to information is more important. I want to be able to read background windows. Just as I would like instant access rather than wait for some animation.

I also remember the Looking Glass demo. Even then I thought it was ridiculous. The only good implementation that came out of that was widgets with the preferences on the back. At least there it makes sense. I guess it could also make sense to have CD covers with the tracklisting on the back